FW is getting nerfed so you might want to wait until that is done...things might return to normal in null once the ISK spout has been turned off

There is no risk in gank! - This is the main problem of the risk part.

You get ganked, you can't do anything. Your enemy can run away, deep beyond 0.0 territory, hide in station forever and avoid any contact.

When there is risk of gank, there is no chance of pay back. This is why risk is only way - without consequences.

If you do something aweful an disband entire alliance and strip them of possesions, there is no risk as you can create another alt or have enough cash to buy as many characters as you wish. You can totally switch identities. Risk is totally anonymous.

The Rewards is diminishing - more people come for it, less each person gets. Everything in eve is limited except missions and ICE which are on demand and infinite.

Most of Null is taken and guarded, minerals, complexes, even belt rats are contested. Production slots, moons, even space navigation routes are camped and are extremely hard to take or use.

Most stupid stuff in EVE.

Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward.

Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy.

Nerf highsec PvE into the ground tbh.

Nerf highsec PvE into the ground tbh.

Actually there's huge rewards in 0.0

Maybe everyone should leave and demand that their alliance leaders share the vast amounts of moon gold.

How is it the fault of design that "grunts" are willing to work as grunts?

This is the subject of a different topic. My alliance pays for all ships lost in combat which is a bill we fork out to the tune of almost 100 billion isk a month. Some alliances (such as mine) are good at sharing the riches, but I feel we're obligated since we ask our pilots to fight for us.

However, not all alliances see the same riches and space itself lacks value for the common member. The idea that all of null sec has the high value moons or that smaller alliances have access to these moons is ignorant. Most alliances who live in null sec struggle.

I believe alliance leaders could create incentives to induce more people to move there, if they were willing. To a degree the goons already did/do this for their members.

Simply put, if you threw ISK at people I'm sure there would be more in 0.0

I believe alliance leaders could create incentives to induce more people to move there, if they were willing. To a degree the goons already did/do this for their members.

Simply put, if you threw ISK at people I'm sure there would be more in 0.0

This will not change anything. Idiots will simply quit and search for another game
where they can get their worthless satisfaction.

I believe you didn't finish reading my post.

The important line was that most null sec alliances struggle. They have to tax their member corps or members by ways of docking fees or repair fees. Yes, I don't because we have tech and an abundance of R64 moons, but for most alliances, they're just getting by.

Solstice Project

good trolling

High rewards do matter, but risks that are 100 times greater prevent all attempts.

It is the ratio of risk to reward - if it was 1:10 to win 100 mill ISK - this is kind of reward people may want to try.

Today it is 1:100 to win 15 mill ISK. Contrast more than 60 times!!!

Low sec mission runners need to be protected while in mission pocket!

No they don't.

It's just that I'm not personally aware of any alliances that are struggling to the degree that they couldn't do more. But I'm not a 0.0 expert so I'll take your word for it.

Nerf highsec PvE into the ground tbh.

That would spell the end of Ice and low-end material deflation for good then, wouldn't it?

Solstice Project

good trolling

High rewards do matter, but risks that are 100 times greater prevent all attempts.

It is the ratio of risk to reward - if it was 1:10 to win 100 mill ISK - this is kind of reward people may want to try.

Today it is 1:100 to win 15 mill ISK. Contrast more than 60 times!!!

Low sec mission runners need to be protected while in mission pocket!

[quote=Darth Khasei]

My argument is the lack of income in null sec. It's in a very, very sad state.

You didn't make a point.

I've always heard how amazing null sec anoms were when I was a highsec bear. After dual boxing them in tengus myself, it turns out they aren't that amazing and I make much more doing lvl 4s with 1 character.

Granted, anom payout is very direct and simple, and what makes doing lvl 4s profitable (200m+/hr) involves more work, such as playing the market, trading, doing conversions etc and a pimped ship and faction standings to blitz (basically things other than actually doing the missions). However, the risk involved in HS is downright laughable compared to 0.0.

I think the risk vs reward is what this is about, null anoms just are not worth the risk compared to other income sources.

Moving into low/null isn't about how much you can gain, but about how much you can afford to lose.

If a high-sec player is flying a ship worth 50m and has worked hard for 3 days to acquire another 50m for their wallet, they aren't likely to risk losing their ship in low/null.

If a player is flying a ship worth 50m and has 500m in their wallet, they are far more likely to risk losing their ship for the greater reward. Giving players good rewards in high-sec actually encourages them to move into riskier parts of space. It also helps if they have other players encouraging them to move into null-sec. If null sec players want to complain about high sec players and carebears, perhaps they could do something about it by welcoming them into null sec instead of expecting them to fly solo into a hellish gank-fest that many new players perceive null-suc to be.

Most stupid stuff in EVE.

Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward.

Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy.

I've always heard how amazing null sec anoms were when I was a highsec bear. After dual boxing them in tengus myself, it turns out they aren't that amazing and I make much more doing lvl 4s with 1 character.

Granted, anom payout is very direct and simple, and what makes doing lvl 4s profitable (200m+/hr) involves more work, such as playing the market, trading, doing conversions etc and a pimped ship and faction standings to blitz (basically things other than actually doing the missions). However, the risk involved in HS is downright laughable compared to 0.0.

I think the risk vs reward is what this is about, null anoms just are not worth the risk compared to other income sources.

Why won't they go to low-sec again?

What makes you think they don't? I can't say for sure, but I expect most new players would probably be a bit curious about exploring low-sec. For most new players, there's nothing there for them though.

You are like 6 month old into the game... Else you post with sh*** alt.

If people come into low sec for some reason - there is still people in low sec. No matter how safe they are when missioning. They have to dock and complete mission and change fittings at some point! This is where interaction is possible.

You can also make probing improbable but 0,0001 % likely.

Solstice Project - your argument lacks content. A wall of emotions.

People do lvl 5s not because they are brave, but because they effectively eliminated competition, and thus locked down mission hub for themselves. Population will not come!!!

no

your asking for 100% safe pve
this is against everything Eve is built around.

please don't make a similar request to this in the future again.
It has been bad enough reading it this time.

A 50M ship price tag is no excuse whatsoever to avoid risk.

You are like 6 month old into the game... Else you post with sh*** alt.

If people come into low sec for some reason - there is still people in low sec. No matter how safe they are when missioning. They have to dock and complete mission and change fittings at some point! This is where interaction is possible.

You can also make probing improbable but 0,0001 % likely.

Solstice Project - your argument lacks content. A wall of emotions.

People do lvl 5s not because they are brave, but because they effectively eliminated competition, and thus locked down mission hub for themselves. Population will not come!!!

That's true. I think a lot of new players aren't accustomed to losing ships. They have no real desire to go out and get themselves blown up. I think it's a pride thing because other games feed them the idea they are some great hero. They come to EvE with big ideas about taking over the universe and perhaps they don't want to tarnish their reputation by getting killed or something. I think new players might feel some embarrassment and humiliation in being blown up by another player.

As an ex pirate i must say!

No mission runner ever passes by... As we fight for king and queen of Mara, every pirate gang holds their space and noone is allowed to pass in PVE fits.

You low sec hub possibly was a null bear JumpFreighter haven. In fact all blue to each other, there are such systems, they border with null.

we cant moon mine in high sec cant owe custom offices dont get officer mod drops or the rare min we need to build ships.

you dont get 1 bil iteam drops in high sec at all so STFU about more nerfs to high sec.

Meta-4 loot is so rare most mission runners won't notice its disappearance for weeks.

Because you know all of lowsec.

*rollseyes*

I give up. Can't teach the stupid.

NERRF HIH-SECD BECAUSE TOOEASY!!!

These isk/hr optimizing carebears only care about one thing: how much can they make? They're driven by greed.

Most null sec dwellers resort to lesser expensive ships who don't have the high value fits for optimal isk/hr generation. So, while theoretically you could generate tons of isk /hr in null, it's not feasable for a lot of the high risk areas to do this as you are at more risk and it's not worth it to field a ship who will potentially get lost.

You've read it all through the prism of ignorance!

PVE safe in pocket, not 100% safe in low sec. Not safe at stations, not safe on gate, not safe if you run out of supplies in station.

Ok, secure lvl 1-4 missions, but leave lvl 5 open as they are! Low sec will repopulate.

This is pretty much it. It's a common misconception that isk is just oozing out of null sec when in reality- sanctums, havens, anomalies are pretty much on par with L4's or Incursions.

They come to EvE with big ideas about taking over the universe and perhaps they don't want to tarnish their reputation by getting killed or something. I think new players might feel some embarrassment and humiliation in being blown up by another player.

There's a huge debate that is always waged on these forums about risk versus reward and that value should be more towards the areas of EVE where there are more risk. Part of that debate is which parts of space house more risk.

As it stands, empire income is pretty good. For minimal risk you are capable of pulling in a decent income without much problem be it through running level 4 missions or through incursions.

Low sec just got a buff through Factional Warfare to the point where many of the null sec pilots are abandoning their prior isk income to seek the riches to low sec.

This has left null sec in quite a state of disarray. Matter of fact, it's pretty bad as it stands where the common grunt has had their income nerfed time and time again to the point of where if your alliance is at war (as CCP would like) generating an income as a line member can be next to impossible.

NPC systems in null sec provide a haven for wolves to seek prey. The benefit to living in the regions which border empire in null sec is that your logistics is typically a lot easier than the outer reaches of null sec.

I'm actually for everything that keeps prices high. ^_^



First of all ... i'm not trolling. Just because you don't know better and somebody corrects you,
doesn't mean he's trolling.

Second ... i say it again. One more time:
CCP has tried already. Throwing money at it doesn't change it. If you don't get your head around the fact
that it's not money that keeps people out of lowsec, then please stick to your opinion how much you want !
It does not change the fact of the matter !

Now to your idea of making mission pockets safe. This has never ever happened in this game and i would
be confused if CCP ever did this, because it ruins the sandbox. There are NO instances, hence missions
will always be in open space, reachable by everyone !

Is it too hard for you to accept that most people simply are cowards in a videogame ?
Are you incapable of seeing the obvious ? That people don't want to fight/risk their ships ?

That the chance of getting killed before ending/reaching the mission is much higher
than the chance of actually finishing it ?

Have you considered all those people who are actually running lvl5s in lowsec ?
Why do they do it ? How comes they do it, but the others don't ?
The answer is:

They do it, because they aren't COWARDS !
They do it, because they love the risk and hope for rewards !
They do it, because they know how to watch out for themselves !

All the other guys, highly probably including you,
simply do not want to risk their ships,
simply don't want to put any effort into it,
but want to gain the rewards anyway !

(anybody who thinks about miners now ... bingo !)

How about you don't make me wanna kick your candy ass, thank you very much !

We can all agree that the risk:reward ratio is WAY off.

Solution:

INCREASE the rewards in low/nullsec to bring the ratio back into balance with high sec for EVERYONE not just FW.

Don't remove anything from high sec. Just boost low/null. Prices may skyrocket but everybody will have more money. It's the only way to get people out of highsec (Make low/null so profitable that highsec seems like they're farming beans next to it).

These isk/hr optimizing carebears only care about one thing: how much can they make? They're driven by greed.

You're just an angry broken record with no clue. Get rid of hi sec players and the game will topple, get a clue.

I was pulling about 60M/hr in a T1 fit drake, simply ratting in belts in nullsec. CCP doesn't want to introduce new ISK faucets without similar sinks.

Nullsec already has valuable resources such as Arkonor. You'll notice that the more you exploit resources, the less valuable they become. Due to exploitation of these resources, all ores are pretty much worth the same ISK/hr now (well, except Omber and Spodumain). So simply pumping more resources into nullsec will not increase nullbear incomes.

One option is to take industry out of NPC hands and put it in player hands. NPCs could charge taxes in NPC-controlled regions, for example increasing the cost of anchoring a POS in hisec, while corporations & alliances would be responsible for taxes in nullsec. The POS revamp would be an ideal opportunity for this kind of thing: reduce the number of research & manufacture lines available from NPCs, reduce the quality of NPC refineries, and boost the abilities of player-owned refineries (perhaps only allowing the more efficient refineries to be anchored in non-hisec).

Thus CCP could tip the balance of industry to ensure that, while safe ISK incomes from L4 missions and PLEX speculation are untouched, industrialists will be encouraged to move to low/null to make the greater profits. To be sure, CCP could allow player-operated star bases to have market facilities, then start ramping up the taxes on NPC market facilities so even perfect skilled and perfect standings traders will be paying taxes in NPC facilities. Imagine how much profit the corp/alliance would be pulling in if they got to charge 1% tax on every transaction in a market hub like Jita?

Which brings up the issue of nullbear attitudes towards industrialists. With a fields & farms approach to industry, nullbears are going to have to start protecting their industrialist cash cows rather than treating them with scorn and using industrialists as a source of cheap laughs (hey! we'll rent you this space in null sec, and we'll escort your fleet of freighters and jump freighters all the way there! just pay 10B up front for the first six month's rental and infrastructure setup)

Whining that ratting income is too low in null sec is not going to achieve anything. Ratting income has been nerfed because a great number of nullbears have been far too good at getting the highest possible ISK/hr out of nullsec ratting. CCP has to find other ways of helping you make ISK.

Something that should be noted is that income related to sov-holding and nullsec industry are the most underwhelming. Moon income is good (though only viable in certain regions), from what I've heard pirate NPC missions are nice if you can run them relatively safely/befriend the locals, and exploration is pretty good but sites are very limited until you go out into the boonies (which is kind of the point of exploration, so that's fine). Wormholes are similarly great from what I've heard. None of this requires taking sov, though. Which is kind of a problem if you want people waging wars to take over space for anything but *****, giggles, and bragging rights.

This is my perception too: the aversion to losing ships probably stems most from a long history of fantasy roleplaying games where the player is "the chosen one" (or Bhaalspawn, or a superhero, or something). This is where the Fallout series were excellent: you weren't a super hero, and your story wasn't even that important. You were just a ******* with a shotgun. The same hold with the System Shock series: you're not a super hero, you are a frail and fragile last survivor of some kind of accident, and you die easily.

There's no save-game in EVE, no reloading to just before the boss fight so you can keep trying until you "win".

To encourage EVE players to enjoy more risk, we need to introduce more players to games like System Shock & Fallout. We need people to learn that being just a frail and fragile ******* in a Rifter isn't all that bad, and losing ships and pods isn't the end of the game.

You don't encourage "the chosen one" to participate in deadly combat by putting more ISK in an obvious trap. You encourage "the chosen one" to participate in deadly combat by helping them come to the realise that they are just another Jo Average, flying a spaceship, and they happen to be able to escape the death of their physical body. Oh, and that they are already dead anyway (due to the capsuleer implanting process).

How does this entice one to take risks? I'd imagine that many who aren't taking risks suffer from the opposite of "chosen one" syndrome. They suffer from "Ordinary Guy" syndrome, "I'm just an ordinary guy who can't: beat that corp permadecing us or beat the "inevitable" gatecamp/gank that will happen when I enter a WH/low/null and in the latter I can't do anything with that null blob
out to get me." Or at the very least one may question if it is worth the effort involved.

Meta-4 loot is so rare most mission runners won't notice its disappearance for weeks.

Step one. Nerf high security industry. Twenty manufacturing slots per station at one million isk per slot per day.

Step two. Mining should not boring as **** to do. Some interactivity other than watching mining lasers cycle would probably help.

Step three. Make POS manufacturing and research better than NPC stations. Period.

Step four. Delayed local. Everywhere.

If Ordinary Guys would stop playing EvE all by their little lonesomes this wouldn't be an issue.

Got Friends?

This is pretty much it. It's a common misconception that isk is just oozing out of null sec when in reality- sanctums, havens, anomalies are pretty much on par with L4's or Incursions.

Except the L4 and Incursion can be farmed repeatedly for hours on end without highly skilled roving gangs trying to kill you several times an hour, or downright camping systems with afk cloaky dudes.

For anyone who has tasted the ease and luxury of high sec income why would they ever want to exchange that for mediocre income with a drastic rise in risk?

Meta-4 loot is so rare most mission runners won't notice its disappearance for weeks.

1) As a nutcase ex-indy, never used a station to manufacture anyway.
2) What, put noughts and crosses on the roids to see if you can win tic-tac-toe?
3) It is.
4) In highsec. Why? Gankers for example don't show red until AFTER - that's an intrinsic delay. And really. If you hate local. Go live in a WH.

It really wouldn't, nullsec/lowsec/wh produces much more content than highsec does and content is what matters. Yeah prices would be wonky for a while but eventually it would work out for the better. The entitled masses would be gone and the game would be able to burgeon again with people who aren't total shitlords.

Har har. I bow before your cleverness. I actually do live in W-space. It's so good it needs to happen Everywhere.

Empire needs more stick and less carrot.

i actually think that nullsec is pretty good income wise for the average player

highsec is way to good

What might help as well is to do something about some of the 24/7 Gatecamps

Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game and that will stir up a violent reaction in the community. There are shuttles, cloaks and jumpclones. All that is needed is for new players to learn to use them.

Eve is so unforgiving that 2vs1 one is the situation where 1 has to run real fast, or loose. If you show up on local, you are already found. Best you can do is cloak up and wait till your enemy is tired. You can not actually kick their ass, in fact, you bring a pvp gang and your enemy runs.

what can encourage people to take more RISKs??? Nothing, in fact eve is far too risky.

EVE is hard enough, nobody wants to grind another week to afford a new battleship.
.

Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game and that will stir up a violent reaction in the community. There are shuttles, cloaks and jumpclones. All that is needed is for new players to learn to use them.

You can even fit a rookie ship with a cloak and a cap stable MWD for putting tacticals on gates with very limited skills.

Most stupid stuff in EVE.

Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward.

Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy.

I agree with this -- the gatecamps are a part of EVE, a core part, and shouldn't be changed. There are ways and means of getting in and out that can be learned.

I don't get why someone always has to chime in with the "You can't *FORCE* me into null! Therefore don't fix the game, tia." argument in these types of threads. :cripes: No one can force you to move into null, low, or anywhere else. Get over yourself, this is about the game as a whole and better risk/reward, not dictating your individual choices.

Solstice Project

good trolling

High rewards do matter, but risks that are 100 times greater prevent all attempts.

It is the ratio of risk to reward - if it was 1:10 to win 100 mill ISK - this is kind of reward people may want to try.

Today it is 1:100 to win 15 mill ISK. Contrast more than 60 times!!!

Low sec mission runners need to be protected while in mission pocket!

So yet another person who doesn't live in highsec telling highseccers what's good for 'em.

Bit like all these 0.0 poasters waxing lyrically about what's good for highsec - even telling you they DO have alts in highsec - they just don't post on them.

Gaaa.......

would you be so kind as not to remove that line out of it context.

Are you for real?

Nothing needs to be done about them. To stop those gatecamps would just be dumbing down the game...

Most stupid stuff in EVE.

Low sec, 1000% risk missions. PVE fits are weak, PVP fits suck at PVE, you make so little money that it is not worthwhile to bring PvP guard. There is not enough reward to compensate BODYGUARDs, lost PVE ship. But risk is 100 higher than current reward.

Only way to make low MISSIONS viable - collapsible warp gate, a certain key that takes you to the mission deadspace, so that noone except your team can interfere in your mission. At least it is fair for the PVE pilot, he can still be ganked on gate or station. But not while he is busy.

Yeah, sorry. So what exactly was the correct context of your comment? All I got was 'do something about gatecamps to make it less intimidating for newbies'.

It's this idea that in order to get into 0.0, you need to join an alliance and fly to their space in your missioning Raven or something as opposed to simply selling your empire crap, setting your cloning station to their staging system and self-destructing your pod.

I'm just going to assume you got confused and thought you were posting on the WoW forum.

I'm just going to assume you got confused and thought you were posting on the WoW forum.

eve is all about skill and extreme smart thinking to kill stuff at gates.

~GOONS GOONS GOONS I HATE GOONS~

Please try harder next meltdown, that one was not amusing.

I'm a frustrated little pixel tough man who needs to bully people on forums to make myself feel like more than a scared little boy.

Oups, I thought gate camping was like graveyard camping but seems it's not the same thing.
In one you camp graveyards and kill everything spawning, in the other you kill everything passing the gate.

You're right it's so dam different, how could I even remotely think gate camping is a very skilled game play where you need dps, tacklers, healers and buffs.
Crap missed again, it's wow graveyards who need all this brainless stuff. eve is all about skill and extreme smart thinking to kill stuff at gates.

Simply put, if you threw ISK at people I'm sure there would be more in 0.0

I will sit in a station tonight. Counting ISK.

I will get my Maelstrom blown up tonight (hopefully) and probably podded.

The problem with making meta 4 items 0.0 exclusive is that the items would then be region specific to the rat type - that runs a risk of someone ending up with a nice monopoly outcome. Removing meta 4 from high-sec, fair enough as it's that rare now it's not a big loss for most - but they shouldn't be removed from low-sec. After FW gets nerfed low-sec won't be as profitable (and anyone thinking 0.0 is more risky has never spent long around amamake etc).

The new dust tie-in might be a way for CCP to boost 0.0 income somehow (the 0.0 planets are already a nice passive income for the few who bother with the clicking). After seeing the topic about what team avatar is working on with EVA gameplay there's possibilities in that which could be used.
Then again if 0.0 space was uniformly balanced in quality and resources - what incentive is left for conflicts over resources, look at how blue lists have grown to huge sizes since systems could be upgraded, no need to go to war for better space when you can take the easy route and drop i-hubs.

Really adding more isk to the system runs a risk of inflation, it's more a need of rebalancing where the isk is generated that's needed - high-sec ores are now worth more than bistot / crokite etc. One place they could start is by looking into what basic rat items reprocess into, change it so you need to get zydrine / megacyte from low / 0.0 instead of from lvl 4 loot (make it reprocess into the same minerals as you get from mining high-sec belts).
Combine that with removing those huge spod roids from 0.0 grav belts so miners don't have to mine it out to get a respawn of decent ore would increase their income too.

Ohh space masochists Want to be spanked too?

This will not change anything. Idiots will simply quit and search for another game
where they can get their worthless satisfaction.

Have you considered all those people who are actually running lvl5s in lowsec ?
Why do they do it ? How comes they do it, but the others don't ?
The answer is:

They do it, because they aren't COWARDS !
They do it, because they love the risk and hope for rewards !
They do it, because they know how to watch out for themselves !

All the other guys, highly probably including you,
simply do not want to risk their ships,
simply don't want to put any effort into it,
but want to gain the rewards anyway !

(anybody who thinks about miners now ... bingo !)

How about you don't make me wanna kick your candy ass, thank you very much !

It is when you're the victim. Have you ever tried fitting a ship for the sole purpose of falling prey to a gatecamp? With a little planning and careful manipulation of aggression mechanics, you can create some surprising results. You might even have fun. Maybe you should try it. It might change your perspective on things.

Question is, what's the point doing it?

Zagdul for CSM8?

\o/

Not all gates are camped 23/7 - that's just pants-on-head stupid talk. Go out of Jita to the nearest gate, yeah, that's going to be camped.

There is more than one way into Null (Pro-Tip: Wormholes).

The point is to learn to enjoy PvP. To take a ship specifically designed to take on a gate camp. Play games with them, use the gate guns, use aggression to split their group up. You might even destroy a couple of ships, you might not. It doesn't matter, the point is that you are learning to enjoy EvE.

some people think that Eve is only PVP (read: playing with other people how other people want you to play)
do you really want to waste your time doing it?

Exactly.

And they won't move to lowsec just because there's more money to be made down there,
because there's also a high chance of loosing ! They don't care about the money,
they care about satisfaction ! Lowsec, for a carebear, does not relate to that !

CCP will simply continue nerfing highsec, while at the same time making it more secure ...
... and it will change exactly NOTHING, except pissing off even more people than before !


Hey, in regards to that, how about this:

To bring more people to lowsec, encourage all the pirates to instead move to highsec. %)

It's at least as "smart" as any of these "throw more money at it" ideas,
but this at least hasn't been proven wrong time and time again ..................

Would be an excellent candidate.

You don't know Zagdul do you?

I like Zagdul :colbert:

Solstice Project

good trolling

High rewards do matter, but risks that are 100 times greater prevent all attempts.

It is the ratio of risk to reward - if it was 1:10 to win 100 mill ISK - this is kind of reward people may want to try.

Today it is 1:100 to win 15 mill ISK. Contrast more than 60 times!!!

Low sec mission runners need to be protected while in mission pocket!

The solution, in my eyes, is to make PvE require the same (or at least very similar) fits to PvP. that way, if you do get jumped doing PvP, you have a chance to fight back instead of inevitably getting roflstomped even against bad PvP setups. Further, once the AI is changed so NPCs don't keep a laser focus on a single ship, and instead change targets, trying to gank someone doing missions or plexes could have some risk to it.

It would also add an interesting dynamic. For instance, it would be interesting to have a mission where a critical NPC could possibly warp off, so if you forget to pack a point you could end up having to travel all across the system trying to complete the mission. As another example, if you had to use combat scan probes to find a certain NPC for another mission, it would serve to partially train players on how to use them (though getting a human still takes more work since we tend to move around at the first sign of probes).

The solution, in my eyes, is to make PvE require the same (or at least very similar) fits to PvP. that way, if you do get jumped doing PvP, you have a chance to fight back instead of inevitably getting roflstomped even against bad PvP setups. Further, once the AI is changed so NPCs don't keep a laser focus on a single ship, and instead change targets, trying to gank someone doing missions or plexes could have some risk to it.

It would also add an interesting dynamic. For instance, it would be interesting to have a mission where a critical NPC could possibly warp off, so if you forget to pack a point you could end up having to travel all across the system trying to complete the mission. As another example, if you had to use combat scan probes to find a certain NPC for another mission, it would serve to partially train players on how to use them (though getting a human still takes more work since we tend to move around at the first sign of probes).

The solution, in my eyes, is to make PvE require the same (or at least very similar) fits to PvP. that way, if you do get jumped doing PvP, you have a chance to fight back instead of inevitably getting roflstomped even against bad PvP setups. Further, once the AI is changed so NPCs don't keep a laser focus on a single ship, and instead change targets, trying to gank someone doing missions or plexes could have some risk to it.

It would also add an interesting dynamic. For instance, it would be interesting to have a mission where a critical NPC could possibly warp off, so if you forget to pack a point you could end up having to travel all across the system trying to complete the mission. As another example, if you had to use combat scan probes to find a certain NPC for another mission, it would serve to partially train players on how to use them (though getting a human still takes more work since we tend to move around at the first sign of probes).

Nerf highsec PvE into the ground tbh.

High Security needs to stay how it is. People who want risk will go to lower security areas. I have more fun flying around High Security checking out planets and belts, and mining some ore. I don't want to be killed every 5 seconds.

I don't want more risk. Hi Sec should be just that, highly secured. It's like living in a populated city, you shouldn't have to worry every time you go out of your house, if you are going to be killed or not. On the off chance that you are the victim of a crime the police step in to help...usually.

High Security needs to stay how it is. People who want risk will go to lower security areas. I have more fun flying around High Security checking out planets and belts, and mining some ore. I don't want to be killed every 5 seconds.

That's true. I think a lot of new players aren't accustomed to losing ships. They have no real desire to go out and get themselves blown up. I think it's a pride thing because other games feed them the idea they are some great hero. They come to EvE with big ideas about taking over the universe and perhaps they don't want to tarnish their reputation by getting killed or something. I think new players might feel some embarrassment and humiliation in being blown up by another player.

In 0.0, I know who my enemy is. NBSI is the best defensive system imaginable.
In 0.0, I'm forced to fight, knowing that if I lose my ship, it's covered.
In 0.0, if someone who is my enemy is 10 jumps out, I know about it.
In 0.0, if I do get in a fight, my mates will be there.
In 0.0, the police (your mates) will make every attempt to stop the bad guys.

In highsec, everyone is a possible threat.
In highsec, I'm forced to fight (by the guy sneaking up on my Hulk with a Brutix). My loss is complete.
In highsec, someone could be my enemy right next to me, I won't know that until I am dead.
In highsec, if I do get in a fight, my mates will run away.
In highsec, the police (Concord) will put tape around the scene of the crime.

Highsec is safe?

Whoever said that has never been in highsec.

Needs to be said over and over for Nullbears and Lowsucks.

Destroy Hi-Sec, destroy EVE.

Gotta love people who have no actual experience, believing that their opinion is in any way valid ...

Hello, Genius ! The reward does not matter ! CCP has tried times and times again.

It's NOT about the money ! Those who don't want to move to lowsec simply do NOT want to risk their ships !

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The Stargates are major choke points and provide easy PvP kills for players who prefer to not have a challenge. Just camp the gate and pop whatever comes through. To me, protecting gates would probably be sufficient through low-sec space. I don't care if it is CONCORD or some sort of tracking disrputor field around the gate that makes targeting ships nearly impossible. Once I can get through the gate and into a system, I can take it from there.

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Thats because this is all the PVP that CCP has left us. You say a challenge, I say that CCP has removed most incentives to fight in the game, and made it entirely too easy to avoid combat should that be what you want. The net result is that outside of fleet fights, which 7 out of 10 times will result in blue balls once the enemy learns your fleet might beat theirs, or your fc learns their fleet will beat yours, is to camp gates and jump bridges. Because at least on those you KNOW somebody will eventually come through that you have a chance of blowing up.

Thats because this is all the PVP that CCP has left us. You say a challenge, I say that CCP has removed most incentives to fight in the game, and made it entirely too easy to avoid combat should that be what you want. The net result is that outside of fleet fights, which 7 out of 10 times will result in blue balls once the enemy learns your fleet might beat theirs, or your fc learns their fleet will beat yours, is to camp gates and jump bridges. Because at least on those you KNOW somebody will eventually come through that you have a chance of blowing up.

If you're mad about that, tell CCP to give the PVP guys some goals that don't require large fleets, that small gangs can accomplish, tell them to return reasons to roam in small and medium sized gangs and then you can go back to crying about gate camps. Right now thats one of the few ways to force PVP in this game.

Snipped not because it was badly written but wall of text

Why then do you not move?
Use dotlan. Check what low sec systems have many kills and which not.

I can assure you that far from all low sec gates are camped.
With the current low population (before dt) you even are "lucky" if you find another pilot in the same low sec system.


Just relocate.

Actually no they haven't, time and again they nerf the income streams, but I'm ok with Nullsec being worthless since they've made it virtually impossible to catch any ratter who's not sleeping, so if its just as safe (if not safer since you can wall of a system in bubbles) than Empire I see no reason why it should make more money than empire.


Thats because this is all the PVP that CCP has left us. You say a challenge, I say that CCP has removed most incentives to fight in the game, and made it entirely too easy to avoid combat should that be what you want. The net result is that outside of fleet fights, which 7 out of 10 times will result in blue balls once the enemy learns your fleet might beat theirs, or your fc learns their fleet will beat yours, is to camp gates and jump bridges. Because at least on those you KNOW somebody will eventually come through that you have a chance of blowing up.

If you're mad about that, tell CCP to give the PVP guys some goals that don't require large fleets, that small gangs can accomplish, tell them to return reasons to roam in small and medium sized gangs and then you can go back to crying about gate camps. Right now thats one of the few ways to force PVP in this game.

You are in FA a bi... member of the CFC, what the hell are you complaining about?

Oh you want more ISK than you already got and can make out in CFC space at less risk than now, christ, you are worse than miners in highsec.