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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
426
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:50:00 -
[211] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: Oh look, it's the "you shouldn't be able to gank an expensive ship with a cheap ship" fallacy again. "hurr I shouldn't be able to shoot a titan down with a frigate because a frigate is chea".
Oh look its the ignoring "risk versus rewards" fallacy: because cheap ships killing vastly more expensive ships & ISK risk is being mitigated... see what I did there? Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up.-á Typical NULL seccer whine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u299-o66wo&feature=related |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:50:00 -
[212] - Quote
White Quake wrote:keep replying, im gonna sit here and tear every argument down to its base fact and prove you wrong
you haven't proven anyone wrong you're just showing how you're not actually what you claim to be ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
424
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:50:00 -
[213] - Quote
Hecate Shaw wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Hecate Shaw wrote:Can't help but think that everyone is overlooking a simple fact - the changes they are so eager to make to push whatever out to null and to make null better than high sec do not fit with the game setting! High sec is supposed to be civilized space, with the protections of government and law enforcement. There is NO REASON it should not be the best place for industry. I agreed with the mining buff for the same reason - I'm in civilized territory, why should I have to armor as if I was in the middle of a war zone?
Sure, push the bulk of mining more into the frontiers (if you want to really annoy those who enjoy mining) or better make belts into something you scan down. Say, pockets one quarter the size of current belts, four times as many, and they respawn in a new place in the same system when mined out (with a delay). Give the bots and afk miners a setback, while not really hurting those of us that actually sit at our computers. Easy to justify, too: the regular belts in highsec are becoming depleted, and miners are having to search more for remaining resources.
As far as manufacturing in null...yeah, it should be possible to create industrial upgrades that bring an outpost close to the level of high sec, but to exceed it? In the lawless wastes? Not so sure on that. Because the gold rush happened on the east coast? Or how about the fact that high sec has this group called concord, yet no one's paying them to protect them. In no country is freedom "free". Yet in high sec you don't pay anything for the safety you recieve, that is enforced by CONCORD. Or are you trying to tell me that countries with the highest defense budget pays the least for that defense? The US begs to differ with you. Yep, the gold rush should be in less settled territory - that is where you find ABC roids, the last time I looked. Maybe CCP should rebalance the amounts of the various minerals needed for manufacture, placing a bit more emphasis on the top end. Removing all resources from high sec isn't the answer, though; the iron and copper mines don't suddenly dry up because gold is found in the Yukon. As far as CONCORD is concerned, there is a tax on all trade, and fees for other things that are supposed to be the capsuleer's tithe to CONCORD. If it would make you happy, I'm sure most high-sec dwellers would be more than happy to see a reasonable increase, or even separate new fees of some kind. I do think that all such fees and taxes should be absent from null, or imposed only by whoever holds sov. I don't agree with the moving of minerals to other systems either.
Taxes are non factor in high sec. You have skills that make broker and transaction taxes next to nothing. You build in a station not owned by you, but get perfect refining and pay next to nothing to use them. You're using SOMEONE ELSES FACTORY to build for next to no cost. That's like me going and building something in a factory that's owned by another corporation and them not really charging me to do so.
And high sec is not supposed to be civilized space and null a wasteland. High sec is only supposed to be safer, and the further away you get from each empires epicenter the longer it takes CONCORD to get to you and the less safe it becomes. Null is just space that hasn't been claimed by one of the four factions, and therefore has no CONCORD control.
Null sec isn't the place you go just for blowing people up, it's for empire building when you don't want to be affiliated with one of the existing empires. Just because it's player driven doesn't mean it should be the shittiest place to live and make ISK, it only means you don't pay tax to the NPC empires, you pay it to a player run one.
My point about the gold rush was that people went west in droves TO MAKE FORTUNES. You don't go to the frontier in EVE for that reason currently.
It doesn't make any sense that you're paying less to utilize someone elses factories than we can in null. Setting up a factory has nothing to do with an area of space being civilized or not, you're using anothe companies facilities and you're hardly paying anything to do so, that just doesn't make any sense.
You should be setting up PoSes in high sec if you want your own factory. If you use another companies, you should be paying considerably more for it.
As a full time industrialist I'm not exactly flying all over the place and putting myself in harms way, not to mention I do indeed live in a very civilized area of space controlled and protected by the players themselves. So as an industrialist who doesn't actually end up in harms way anymroe than one in high sec, what reason do I actually have to play in null if I don't pvp? That extends to high sec indistrialist, why come here if you don't pvp; as an industrialist you're probably going to be just as safe here as you are in high. |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:50:00 -
[214] - Quote
Andski wrote:White Quake wrote:and this means what?
or just another goon idiot twisting words?
pvp pilots have it easy, u say *thats just eve* they give miners more protection you say *omg wtfbbqcryhader*
it's the hypocrisy of saying "eve is harsh" while demanding that your ships are made less vulnerable to ganks with the nth buff to hisec safety CCP has also shown that they're willing to disincentivize freighter ganking as much as possible because publords should be able to autopilot their freighters loaded with 50bn of faction loot
why not? shouldnt you be in previous null fighting the baddies?
why you in empire? To grief, thats why
Your not pvpes, your blobbers and run when the fight gets tough
goons has been kicked down so many times and the only reason ur here now is you surrounded yourself with massive allies
idiot |

Lord Zim
1894
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:51:00 -
[215] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Lord Zim wrote: Oh look, it's the "you shouldn't be able to gank an expensive ship with a cheap ship" fallacy again. "hurr I shouldn't be able to shoot a titan down with a frigate because a frigate is chea".
Oh look its the ignoring "risk versus rewards" fallacy: cheap ships killing vastly more expensive ships... see what I did there? "battleships should be utterly invulnerable to frigates because they're cheap and a BS is expensive."
"battleships should not be killable by industrials because they're cheap and a BS is expensive."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:51:00 -
[216] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Oh look its the ignoring "risk versus rewards" fallacy: cheap ships killing vastly more expensive ships... see what I did there?
oh man the guy who advocates for hisec safety buffs and a revert to the escalation incursion nerfs is talking "risk versus reward"
this is gold ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:52:00 -
[217] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Oh look its the ignoring "risk versus rewards" fallacy: cheap ships killing vastly more expensive ships... see what I did there? oh man the guy who advocates for hisec safety buffs and a revert to the escalation incursion nerfs is talking "risk versus reward" this is gold
yes lets make bs killable in frigs
and freighters killable in shuttles
and lets watch eve crash and burn |

TharOkha
0asis Group
116
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:53:00 -
[218] - Quote
White Quake wrote: The issue is everyone blues each other and then runs out of targets, hostile gangs come in and get bobbed and dont come back. null sec screwed itself and blame high sec
stupid argument
Nah i dont agree with this post. Nullsec mechanic is realy flawed. And they are not blue to each other But i also dont like that they blaming hisec for this situation. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2085
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:53:00 -
[219] - Quote
White Quake wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:White Quake wrote:absolute rubbish
high sec players have a right to play how they want to[
they pay to play not really, since that's not what a sandbox is i don't have a right to play with an invulnerable ship that's immune to concord and gank people as they undock from jita endlessly, even if I really really want to you pay to access the EVE server, not for 'rights' hth absolute rubbish, high sec players dont get absolute secuirty i.e ganking again dont twist words to suit your own argument Noone is twisting your words. When you say people "have a right to a play how they want to", it is interpreted that you believe that players have a right to play "how they want". It's not my fault you don't think your statements through.
Quote:keep replying, im gonna sit here and tear every argument down to its base fact and prove you wrong Hahahaha awwww... |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
348
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:54:00 -
[220] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Yeah, the crazier and more feared you are, the more likely the government is going to let you set up an orbital bombardment factory in orbit of one of their densely populated planets. Good one. Actually, beyond a certain threshold yes. Consider the implications of creating an enemy out of not an individual but rather an undying entity capable of piloting the greatest weapons you have at far greater efficiency and effect than you can. Now add to that the fact that there are thousands of them and their willingness to use that force against you with minimal fear of loss the moment you are no longer a good business partner. |

Lord Zim
1894
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:54:00 -
[221] - Quote
White Quake wrote:yes lets make bs killable in frigs I've killed BSes while in either a frig or a noobship, I forget which it was, it was quite a few years ago and we were 100+ vs 4-5 BSes.
White Quake wrote:and freighters killable in shuttles They have guns now? Interesting.
White Quake wrote:and lets watch eve crash and burn mlyp Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:54:00 -
[222] - Quote
White Quake wrote:why not? shouldnt you be in previous null fighting the baddies?
why you in empire? To grief, thats why
Your not pvpes, your blobbers and run when the fight gets tough
goons has been kicked down so many times and the only reason ur here now is you surrounded yourself with massive allies
idiot
thank you for your input
now, are you actually going to tell me why hisec should be 100% safe, especially since CCP is taking the extra step of ensuring that hiseccers don't get ganked for being dumb and flying their loaded freighters and officer-fit nightmares around on autopilot
or are you just going to post nonsense? ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:54:00 -
[223] - Quote
none of you have any basis of argument other than butthurt bullshite
PVP pilot can gank a mackinaw in a destroyer *thats just eve, get used to it*
CCP ten buffs mining barges u have to actually spend to gank expensive ships and you go *omg thats not fair, u took our toys away, damn you, we hate you, JIHAD*
grow up :) U wanna pvp in high sec without war decs, use big ships n spend money doing it
if a pvp pilot finds summit easy, hes happy, if its difficult, its broken
stupid reasoning |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:55:00 -
[224] - Quote
White Quake wrote:yes lets make bs killable in frigs
nothing stops a frigate from killing a battleship hth ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:56:00 -
[225] - Quote
Andski wrote:White Quake wrote:why not? shouldnt you be in previous null fighting the baddies?
why you in empire? To grief, thats why
Your not pvpes, your blobbers and run when the fight gets tough
goons has been kicked down so many times and the only reason ur here now is you surrounded yourself with massive allies
idiot thank you for your input now, are you actually going to tell me why hisec should be 100% safe, especially since CCP is taking the extra step of ensuring that hiseccers don't get ganked for being dumb and flying their loaded freighters and officer-fit nightmares around on autopilot or are you just going to post nonsense?
ill respond to that as a question
what is a null sec pilot doing in empire looking for pvp?
when u answer that, ull have your own answer |

KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
987
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:56:00 -
[226] - Quote
White Quake wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Oh look its the ignoring "risk versus rewards" fallacy: cheap ships killing vastly more expensive ships... see what I did there? oh man the guy who advocates for hisec safety buffs and a revert to the escalation incursion nerfs is talking "risk versus reward" this is gold yes lets make bs killable in frigs and freighters killable in shuttles and lets watch eve crash and burn BS's are killable by frigs, easily. Crash and burn in 3... www.minerbumping.com - because your tears are delicious |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:56:00 -
[227] - Quote
White Quake wrote:none of you have any basis of argument other than butthurt bullshite
PVP pilot can gank a mackinaw in a destroyer *thats just eve, get used to it*
CCP ten buffs mining barges u have to actually spend to gank expensive ships and you go *omg thats not fair, u took our toys away, damn you, we hate you, JIHAD*
grow up :) U wanna pvp in high sec without war decs, use big ships n spend money doing it
if a pvp pilot finds summit easy, hes happy, if its difficult, its broken
stupid reasoning
lmao
CCP is just changing the game to cater to the lowest common denominator, not to make it "harder" on "those damned PvP pilots" ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:57:00 -
[228] - Quote
White Quake wrote:ill respond to that as a question
what is a null sec pilot doing in empire looking for pvp?
when u answer that, ull have your own answer
hunting people dumb enough to load their freighters with tens of billions of ISK, since people outside of hisec don't tend to be that dumb
now, tell me why hisec should be risk-free ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
424
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:57:00 -
[229] - Quote
White Quake wrote:confused about EVE You should stop playing EVE, you obviously don't understand the game you play. Your little arguement that you play to play has **** to do with anything.
Just because you pay to play doesn't mean you have the right to demand the game work as you want it; which is literally what you're doing when you tell people you shouldn't have to pvp becuse you pay to play the game.
GTFO, seriously. That garbage excuse has no business in this game. You are not exempt from pvp just because you pay to play, if you can't figure that out you shouldn't be playing EVE. If you want a game that allows you to do nothing but pve without worrying what other players may do to you then go play one, because that IS NOT EVE.
I pay to play is the about the dumbest ******* excuse you could make. You do not pay to make the rules, you pay to play CCP's game. If you don't like the way it works LEAVE.
Because on the flip side I play to play the game CCP makes, the game CCP developed around the entire premise that it's player driven and players have every right in the world to impat another person in game, and I demand it ******* stay that way.
If you don't want to get shot while pveing, then log the **** out, that's the option CCP gave you, and the ONLY accepted one that should ever be in the game. Because that's what CCP themselves have decided, not you. |

Lord Zim
1894
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
White Quake wrote:PVP pilot can gank a mackinaw in a destroyer *thats just eve, get used to it* Don't worry, CCP are sure this'll be a thing of the past when retribution hits.
If it turns out it's not enough, they'll release the next expansion called EVE Online: Trammel. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

TharOkha
0asis Group
116
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:58:00 -
[231] - Quote
Andski wrote:White Quake wrote:yes lets make bs killable in frigs nothing stops a frigate from killing a battleship hth
As well as post-patch exhumer GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
Andski wrote:White Quake wrote:none of you have any basis of argument other than butthurt bullshite
PVP pilot can gank a mackinaw in a destroyer *thats just eve, get used to it*
CCP ten buffs mining barges u have to actually spend to gank expensive ships and you go *omg thats not fair, u took our toys away, damn you, we hate you, JIHAD*
grow up :) U wanna pvp in high sec without war decs, use big ships n spend money doing it
if a pvp pilot finds summit easy, hes happy, if its difficult, its broken
stupid reasoning lmao CCP is just changing the game to cater to the lowest common denominator, not to make it "harder" on "those damned PvP pilots"
and you run to the forums and try to get high sec nerfed so u can go back to nailing barges with ease and laugh as the miners stop mining because they just die non stop, mineral prices go up, ship prices go up, everything goes up and then ur back here in two months time complaining |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 19:59:00 -
[233] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:White Quake wrote:confused about EVE You should stop playing EVE, you obviously don't understand the game you play. Your little arguement that you play to play has **** to do with anything. Just because you pay to play doesn't mean you have the right to demand the game work as you want it; which is literally what you're doing when you tell people you shouldn't have to pvp becuse you pay to play the game. GTFO, seriously. That garbage excuse has no business in this game. You are not exempt from pvp just because you pay to play, if you can't figure that out you shouldn't be playing EVE. If you want a game that allows you to do nothing but pve without worrying what other players may do to you then go play one, because that IS NOT EVE. I pay to play is the about the dumbest ******* excuse you could make. You do not pay to make the rules, you pay to play CCP's game. If you don't like the way it works LEAVE. Because on the flip side I play to play the game CCP makes, the game CCP developed around the entire premise that it's player driven and players have every right in the world to impat another person in game, and I demand it ******* stay that way. If you don't want to get shot while pveing, then log the **** out, that's the option CCP gave you, and the ONLY accepted one that should ever be in the game. Because that's what CCP themselves have decided, not you.
post of drivel, nothing more
high sec pilots have a right to ignore you, end of conversation |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5418
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:00:00 -
[234] - Quote
White Quake wrote:and you run to the forums and try to get high sec nerfed so u can go back to nailing barges with ease and laugh as the miners stop mining because they just die non stop, mineral prices go up, ship prices go up, everything goes up and then ur back here in two months time complaining
tell me why you seem to think that I'm in favor of dirt-cheap minerals
I'm actually not because I like it when losses actually matter and capitals aren't replaced in a matter of a few hours of PvE ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~ |

Marvin Narville
Evil .inc WHY so Seri0Us
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
White Quake wrote:
How do they have an advantage? If a null sec player cant make as much isk as an empire pilot L2P
its as simple as that, i make more money pvping and ratting than i do, doing anything else, including lvl 4 alts and ice miner alts
Actually if it were as simple as a "matter of isk" you'd still be largely incorrect. If you were shooting for tunnel vision, you nailed it.
Yes, you could make more money ratting in null than in high sec. Yes you could make more running anomalies in null than in high sec.
No at no point in my post did i say "game mechanics have caused an imbalance that is specifically and entirely restricted to who can generate isk more quickly".
Are there factors in this game beyond making isk which are relevant, yes. I applaud you for reducing it to that lowest common denominator, however you've otherwise entirely missed the point, and ignored huge portions of the game which aren't directly related to how many ISK you can pile up. Perhaps consider broadening your argument, or at least broadening your consideration of those arguments put forth by others so that you can appropriately respond or disagree. Otherwise you sir are currently engaged in a very fruitless monologue with yourself. |

Lord Zim
1894
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:01:00 -
[236] - Quote
White Quake wrote:post of drivel, nothing more Now this is high-quality rebuttals, right there.
White Quake wrote:high sec pilots have a right to ignore you, end of conversation And they often do, until they get hit by a few blasters. Then they cry sweet, sweet tears, because they're under the incorrect illusion that hisec is perfectly safe. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
424
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:02:00 -
[237] - Quote
White Quake wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:White Quake wrote:confused about EVE You should stop playing EVE, you obviously don't understand the game you play. Your little arguement that you play to play has **** to do with anything. Just because you pay to play doesn't mean you have the right to demand the game work as you want it; which is literally what you're doing when you tell people you shouldn't have to pvp becuse you pay to play the game. GTFO, seriously. That garbage excuse has no business in this game. You are not exempt from pvp just because you pay to play, if you can't figure that out you shouldn't be playing EVE. If you want a game that allows you to do nothing but pve without worrying what other players may do to you then go play one, because that IS NOT EVE. I pay to play is the about the dumbest ******* excuse you could make. You do not pay to make the rules, you pay to play CCP's game. If you don't like the way it works LEAVE. Because on the flip side I play to play the game CCP makes, the game CCP developed around the entire premise that it's player driven and players have every right in the world to impat another person in game, and I demand it ******* stay that way. If you don't want to get shot while pveing, then log the **** out, that's the option CCP gave you, and the ONLY accepted one that should ever be in the game. Because that's what CCP themselves have decided, not you. post of drivel, nothing more high sec pilots have a right to ignore you, end of conversation Only if you dock and log out, there's your absolute safety.
You're the worst kind of EVE player, you have no business here. CCP doesn't want the game to work the way you do, learn that and then accpet it, or quit.
Those are LITERALLY your only options. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2086
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:02:00 -
[238] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Yeah, the crazier and more feared you are, the more likely the government is going to let you set up an orbital bombardment factory in orbit of one of their densely populated planets. Good one. Actually, beyond a certain threshold yes. Consider the implications of creating an enemy out of not an individual but rather an undying entity capable of piloting the greatest weapons you have at far greater efficiency and effect than you can. Have you seen CONCORD?
Just have CONCORD push all the capsuleers out into 'lawless space' and restrict all capsuleers to civilian gatling guns unless fighting FW enemies. Problem solved. |

White Quake
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:04:00 -
[239] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:White Quake wrote:post of drivel, nothing more Now this is high-quality rebuttals, right there. White Quake wrote:high sec pilots have a right to ignore you, end of conversation And they often do, until they get hit by a few blasters. Then they cry sweet, sweet tears, because they're under the incorrect illusion that hisec is perfectly safe.
id love to see u troll a rl carbear at fanfest, specially one u killed, i saw a pvper do that at the last fanfest outside a hotel, called him a noob and smiled, he wasnt smiling when the guy broke his nose in one hit.
your all just cowards who gank those who cant fight bk |

Lord Zim
1894
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 20:04:00 -
[240] - Quote
White Quake wrote:id love to see u troll a rl carbear at fanfest, specially one u killed, i saw a pvper do that at the last fanfest outside a hotel, called him a noob and smiled, he wasnt smiling when the guy broke his nose in one hit.
your all just cowards who gank those who cant fight bk pfft, do you even lift Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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