The chance of you making a mistake could be including in the "risk" arguement..

Willingly having your ship blown up isn't a risk.

Risk free isk?

By risk free isk you mean being forced to willingly have a ship blown up?

You and I must have entirely different ideas of "risk free". To me risk free isk is being able to fly around high sec knowing that you can make yourelf ungankable or just knowing that gankingis such a pain in the ass that your pretty much guaranteed to not be ganked.

Not to meniton knowing that when I don't stuff my hold with billions of ISK in valuable that I can fly around high sec with no worry of being targetted by another player. That sounds a lot more risk free to me than commiting suidice.

Risk = cost +ù probability. For p=1, risk = cost.

It's still a risk in and of itself, and then you combine it with the risks in the pay-out, and with the simple logic that, if you want to claim that it's no risk just because you have a 100% probability, you should campaign for CONCORD only having a 50% response rate so the gankers' risk increasesGǪ

Oh, and your every-day operating costs are risks too GÇö just ones that you can predict with a high degree of certainty (surprise, surprise).

But .. but I thought ganking wasn't supposed to part of the EVE Online "Highsec Experience (tm)"

And remember,
Because the hulk wasn't intedned to be a guaranteed profit to gank, no ship in high sec is supposed to be profitable to ever gank.

Risk = cost +ù probability. For p=1, risk = cost.

It's still a risk in and of itself, and then you combine it with the risks in the pay-out, and with the simple logic that, if you want to claim that it's no risk just because you have a 100% probability, you should campaign for CONCORD only having a 50% response rate so the gankers' risk increasesGǪ

Oh, and your every-day operating costs are risks too GÇö just ones that you can predict with a high degree of certainty (surprise, surprise).

Give it time, it'll get there.


And remember,
Because the hulk wasn't intedned to be a guaranteed profit to gank, no ship in high sec is supposed to be profitable to ever gank.

We will never achieve hello kitty online if we do not twitst and turn every little thing to our advantage when we convince CCP that that's what everyone wants.

If I run a company and I know that every single time I turn on a machine it will cost me $300 an hour to run it and I also know I need to run it for 5 hours a day to create a product then I know the cost will be 300*5 per day. It is not a "risk" that I will be charged $1,500 a day. It is an operating cost of running my business.

If I know it takes 10 Tornadoes of a specific fit to kill a max skill freighter and I know that each Tornado costs me 75 mil to buy and fit. I know that a max skill freighter will cost me 75*10 million. With the cargo scanners it is extremely simple to approximate the amount of cargo and the value in a freighter. From there it is a simple bit of math to figure out the probable profit. The only risk is the loot fairy being evil. It puts the risk of gankinig on the same plane as PvEing for rare drops.


The numbers in the second paragraph are probably woefully wrong but my point stands.


Operating costs only become risks in an extremely unstable market. Even then risks in ganking are extremely easy to mitigate and most of them are occurring before the freighter even knows they are being targeted.

Ganking is relatively risk free. I never said "too" risk free. I don't mind ganking. I just think it is really dumb for people to claim it is a risky occupation. Admit y'all, you're just playing around shooting fish in a barrel.

Ganking is relatively risk free. I never said "too" risk free. I don't mind ganking. I just think it is really dumb for people to claim it is a risky occupation. Admit y'all, you're just playing around shooting fish in a barrel.

the flaw in your analogy is that you will turn on your machines, and you will produce product.

a gankworthy freighter might not come through all day, and you produce nothing. you're comparing fixed costs to variable costs.

The only risk is the loot fairy being evil. It puts the risk of gankinig on the same plane as PvEing for rare drops.

If I run a company and I know that every single time I turn on a machine it will cost me $300 an hour to run it and I also know I need to run it for 5 hours a day to create a product then I know the cost will be 300*5 per day. It is not a "risk" that I will be charged $1,500 a day. It is an operating cost of running my business.

If I know it takes 10 Tornadoes of a specific fit to kill a max skill freighter and I know that each Tornado costs me 75 mil to buy and fit. I know that a max skill freighter will cost me 75*10 million. With the cargo scanners it is extremely simple to approximate the amount of cargo and the value in a freighter. From there it is a simple bit of math to figure out the probable profit. The only risk is the loot fairy being evil. It puts the risk of gankinig on the same plane as PvEing for rare drops.


The numbers in the second paragraph are probably woefully wrong but my point stands.


Operating costs only become risks in an extremely unstable market. Even then risks in ganking are extremely easy to mitigate and most of them are occurring before the freighter even knows they are being targeted.

Ganking is relatively risk free. I never said "too" risk free. I don't mind ganking. I just think it is really dumb for people to claim it is a risky occupation. Admit y'all, you're just playing around shooting fish in a barrel.

If I run a company and I know that every single time I turn on a machine it will cost me $300 an hour to run it and I also know I need to run it for 5 hours a day to create a product then I know the cost will be 300*5 per day. It is not a "risk" that I will be charged $1,500 a day. It is an operating cost of running my business.

Ganka ship with 20 bil in the cargo. Nothing drops.

1 billion in lost ships, sec status loss, killrights for attacked corp, GCC for 15 min, no insurance payout, possibility of other people scooping your loot, suddenly war targets and counter ganked.

Yep, not risky at all!

I admitted as much. I still think ganking is pretty risk free in the end.


All I am asking is that gankers admit they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel by claiming their play style is risky.

Predictable Operating costs do not meet my definition of Risk. It happens. If you do the math I bet you can even tell me how often it happens with relative accuracy. Not a risk.

I admitted as much. I still think ganking is pretty risk free in the end.


All I am asking is that gankers admit they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel by claiming their play style is risky.

if you're going to carry cargo worth more than it costs to turn your ship to space dust it's only logical that you're going to end up as space dust.

Predictable Operating costs do not meet my definition of Risk. It happens. If you do the math I bet you can even tell me how often it happens with relative accuracy. Not a risk.

Gankers just want their risk free money. Just be less efficient/use more freighters until they get bored.

And how much does it cost a ganker to turn a freighter into space dust?

Ah, I think I see the problem...

GǪand it's still a risk. If you want to put it in a different column because it helps with your auditing and planning, then good for you. What you call operating costs are simply risks you have accepted because you can easily calculate them and see that they are worth taking (hell, even required) as you can see that you'll earn them back in the end.

The simple fact remains: Risk = cost +ù probability, and it doesn't cease to be true just because the probability is 1 (largely because the probability is never 1).

But sure, let's presume that this isn't true. Let's instead change CONCORD so it only has a 1% response rate. That will massively increase the gankers' risk, right?

And don't be a liar.

You can't tell us they want risk free money and then tell us you're not saying ganking isn't risk free.


That is exactly what you said!

Risk may be Cost * probability. I do not know.

i have no idea how much ehp a freighter has, or how much dps a cheap t3 battlecruiser can put out.

so, i don't know.

Poorly worded. Let me rephrase


Gankers want their relatively risk free money.

Over 130k EHP.

They do not require an insignificant investment to take down. Nor does the cost of a ship matter. Nothing is ballanced around "how much does it cost" to blow up another ship.


It was only a problem with the hulk becuse the hulk GUARANTEED a profit. It had nothing to do with any ship being profitable, it sure didn't have anything to do with a freighter loaded with billions of ISK in goods.

There is no profit unless the drop works out. That is working as intended, as is being able to blow up a freighter.

Poorly worded. Let me rephrase


Gankers want their relatively risk free money.

so, you're openly admitting you don't know about the topic being discussed.

well...

that's pitiful ehp, then again i guess you're paying 1.5bn isk for over 800k of cargo space, not an impregnable floating fortress.