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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Lorna Mood
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
   |
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
.... is this a legitimate use of the game mechanics or is it utilising a game mechanic in a way that it was never designed to be utilised?
Is it concievable that something as big as a freighter can be bumped by a much much smaller ship. Yes I know real life physics don't apply to Eve but still..... Would it not make more sense that in order to bump a ship... any ship... you have to have a bigger mass than it or you simply bump off yourself and your target is unaffected? Would that be so hard to implement?
I'm trying to make this a serious discussion thread about an important game mechanic. Please keep it on topic so that it isn't locked.
Thanks |
Lashenadeeka
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
3097
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
What's wrong with freighter bumping? 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Lorna Mood
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lashenadeeka wrote:Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective.
We're leaving physics out of it since Eve is not a simulation. But... you couldn't divert a Jumbo Jet by flying a Cessna close to it. That's the point. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
488
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Freighter bumping is working as intended. 100mn MWD talos makes freighters fly!
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10369
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:.... is this a legitimate use of the game mechanics According to CCP, yes.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Sixx Spades
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:
Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.
However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:
Bumping is not considered harassment.
Bumping is not considered griefing.
Bumping is not against the rules.
It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.
Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.
There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination. Smile
Nooooooope, gonna continue bumping. To answer your question, though, it is a legitimate tactic. Feel free to make these threads and continue flying freighters the way you do.
Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
367
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
MWDs increase mass so a smaller ship is actually very big while MWD burning. Nothing wrong with a specialized fit for a specialized job, that's pretty much the whole point of fitting.
Maybe 4-5 years ago it was fixed so that small ships can't bump larger ones very hard. Try to bump a freighter with a frigate. Go on, try it. |
Lorna Mood
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
the important words from CCP Falcon there in the quote that is always used are "current view"
In other words that view can change. That's why it is a legitimate discussion topic. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade
Intrepid Crossing
488
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:Lashenadeeka wrote:Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. We're leaving physics out of it since Eve is not a simulation. But... you couldn't divert a Jumbo Jet by flying a Cessna close to it. That's the point.
I beg to differ. I have a feeling I could divert a Jumbo Jet quite effectively by flying into it with a Cessna. I can even predict the direction said Jet will go after the "bump".
Unsub or don't.-á I don't care what your reasons are, and neither does anyone else.-á Just click the button and go away - or don't. |
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
420
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:Lashenadeeka wrote:Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. We're leaving physics out of it since Eve is not a simulation. But... you couldn't divert a Jumbo Jet by flying a Cessna close to it. That's the point.
True, but neither of those planes have shields. And since we are leaving physics out of it, you can't tell me the physics of shields do not work that way.
The simple truth is, it's allowed. Deal with it. |
Ko'Ahi
O C C U P Y
Test Friends Please Ignore
9
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Lorna Mood wrote:Lashenadeeka wrote:Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. We're leaving physics out of it since Eve is not a simulation. But... you couldn't divert a Jumbo Jet by flying a Cessna close to it. That's the point. I beg to differ. I have a feeling I could divert a Jumbo Jet quite effectively by flying into it with a Cessna. I can even predict the direction said Jet will go after the "bump".
Down?
The 99 Percent - Occupy Everything! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10369
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:the important words from CCP Falcon there in the quote that is always used are "current view"
In other words that view can change. That's why it is a legitimate discussion topic. Not really, no. CCP Falcon answer the topic fully and completely: yes it is a legitimate use of game mechanics; no it is not utilising that mechanic in a way it wasn't designed for.
What you're looking for is a completely different topic: should the rules change, to which the answer is GÇ£no, there's no reason toGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
3097
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:the important words from CCP Falcon there in the quote that is always used are "current view"
In other words that view can change. That's why it is a legitimate discussion topic.
I agree, perhaps it should be easier to bump. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1640
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:a rudimentary form of tackling
Many carriers and supercaps even titans would be alive today if not for bumping. To be against bumping is to be for supercap proliferation.
. |
Lorna Mood
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Lorna Mood wrote:[quote=Lashenadeeka]Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. The simple truth is, it's allowed. Deal with it.
I am dealing with it... by questioning it :) I'm sure there are many good reasons why this works as intended but surely there is another side aswell? That's why it's a debate.
If you think trapping a freighter and getting it stuck thanks to the bump mechanic is that game feature working as intended then nobody is going to change your mind. It's still a legitimate topic for discussion though as some may disagree. |
Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
207
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:Lashenadeeka wrote:Speed is squared, mass is not. Hence bumping is effective. We're leaving physics out of it since Eve is not a simulation. But... you couldn't divert a Jumbo Jet by flying a Cessna close to it. That's the point.
Maybe bumping a container freighter ship with a fishing trawler would be a better analogy? Closer to the "floating weightless" and "fluid dynamics physics" model of EVE.
Kid:-á I wish we had time to bury them fellas.
Josey Wales:-á To hell with them fellas. Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
432
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:a rudimentary form of tackling Many carriers and supercaps even titans would be alive today if not for bumping. To be against bumping is to be for supercap proliferation.
+1
Also, think of the Children, THE CHILDREN!
I don't know why your post made me think of that lol
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game.
-á |
Sentamon
263
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:a rudimentary form of tackling Many carriers and supercaps even titans would be alive today if not for bumping. To be against bumping is to be for supercap proliferation.
With real collision, your blob would destroy half of your Titans in the first fleet fight.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1641
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:No More Heroes wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:a rudimentary form of tackling Many carriers and supercaps even titans would be alive today if not for bumping. To be against bumping is to be for supercap proliferation. With real collision, your blob would destroy half of your Titans in the first fleet fight.
Keep at range 2k
. |
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James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
3097
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:I am dealing with it... by questioning it :) I'm sure there are many good reasons why this works as intended but surely there is another side aswell? That's why it's a debate.
No, there isn't another side. The only reason to remove the ability to bump freighters would be to make highsec safer. However, the idea that highsec should be safer has been debunked and is only a fringe viewpoint now. Serious observers agree that highsec risk:reward is out of balance because there's too much reward for too little risk in highsec.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
If it helps remove ISK from the game I am all for it...
~Posting in another bumping thread.
I am a proud High Sec Pve player. Got a problem? |
XJennieX
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
freighter holding at place and then landing suicidegankers on it for a kill is not something that should be doable in hisec. time for a change. yes we can. |
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
96
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Last time i checked, bumping does follow the laws of momentum. The problem you're describing is that the velocity vector needs to be very close to the warp path for a ship to be "aligned" and even a slight bump at the right angle can throw that off.
Also, a Cessna could, in fact, alter the flight of a jumbo jet quite easily, although it's much more likely the jet would cause the cessna to fall out of the sky. Read up on wing-tip vorticies.
tl;dr bumping is working as intended. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction
The Unforgiven Alliance
585
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
It is a bit ridiculous for a freighter to be bumped significantly by another smaller ship. Can you give an example of a situation for us to comment on, OP?
|
Shylari Avada
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It is a bit ridiculous for a freighter to be bumped significantly by another smaller ship. Can you give an example of a situation for us to comment on, OP?
Stabbed Fleets running 100mn afterburners have a hilariously large mass, or we're you just calling Machariels small? |
Lorna Mood
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Lorna Mood wrote:I am dealing with it... by questioning it :) I'm sure there are many good reasons why this works as intended but surely there is another side aswell? That's why it's a debate. No, there isn't another side. The only reason to remove the ability to bump freighters would be to make highsec safer. However, the idea that highsec should be safer has been debunked and is only a fringe viewpoint now. Serious observers agree that highsec risk:reward is out of balance because there's too much reward for too little risk in highsec.
No I'm not advocating making hi sec safer. I am advocating making freighters more able to do the job that they are in the game for. That is to transport high volumes of goods in relative safety (not total safety). They take a lot of skill points and a lot of capital to buy one of these things.
They shouldnt be able to be bumped and killed by a few throwaway alts that are a few days old. That is quite simply a game mechanic not working as intended and I am sure CCPs "current view" will change on this subject |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
43
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sixx Spades wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:
Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.
However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:
Bumping is not considered harassment.
Bumping is not considered griefing.
Bumping is not against the rules.
It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.
Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.
There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination. Smile Nooooooope, gonna continue bumping. To answer your question, though, it is a legitimate tactic. Feel free to make these threads and continue flying freighters the way you do.
While I agree with you, I've underlined the interesting part  . |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10369
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:I am advocating making freighters more able to do the job that they are in the game for. That is to transport high volumes of goods in relative safety (not total safety). That would entail giving them more cargo space, which can't happen because then they'd be able to bring cap ships into highsec. They are already as good at doing their job as they'll ever be.
Quote:They shouldnt be able to be bumped and killed by a few throwaway alts that are a few days old. Yes they should. Everything should. The day something cannot be bumped and killed by a few day-old characters, that thing needs to be removed form the game because it has just broken one of the core balancing principles. Neither SP nor capital cost is even remotely relevant to that consideration.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
3097
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lorna Mood wrote:No I'm not advocating making hi sec safer. I am advocating making freighters more able to do the job that they are in the game for. That is to transport high volumes of goods in relative safety (not total safety). They take a lot of skill points and a lot of capital to buy one of these things.
They shouldnt be able to be bumped and killed by a few throwaway alts that are a few days old. That is quite simply a game mechanic not working as intended and I am sure CCPs "current view" will change on this subject
Sorry, your ideas were already debunked more than a month ago. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
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