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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Felsusguy
Archimedes RD Company
102
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Posted - 2013.05.02 06:17:00 -
[331] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Third, this will be much more realistic, as the security of cities and countries lay stronger near the capitals. And borders... How droll. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
661
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:29:00 -
[332] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote: And borders...
Sec status =/= military presence https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
121
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:34:00 -
[333] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: Stuff So rather than have things worth countering pirates for youd rather just have no pirates? Bring me proof that the majority of the game likes to shoot little red boxes as their primary source of fun. I have a hard time believing that the game that advertises its sandbox pvp world while featuring some of the worst pve in the MMO market today is mostly made up of people who don't ever pvp. Secondly Low-Sec is more profitable if you have a clue on how pirates work. With my Ishtar and Buzzard alt I did exploration in low sec for months and was never caught. I even did a few escalations in null sec when the mood struck me, and I never died. Level 5 missions can be done similarly if you watch D-Scan and aren't a toad. This may be unfair to say but if you don't know how to warp away when you see pirates your bad and should feel bad. At the very least move away from the warp in and be aligned to a safe spot, you will never die. Perhaps an ISD will remove this but mike, have you ever considered you might just be incompetent? Mining isn't worth it because despite the fact there are plenty of corners where you can do it safely its just hard enough where you can't be AFK and not worth the ****** ores. Finallyy I would argue if someone can't cause consequences to my gameplay then this game isn't worth playing, if as a trader I have no risk of failure then I see no reason to be proud of my success. Low Sec is the medium by which I can achieve that success and this method does not intrude on your gameplay. You already have a location where you can carebear without anyone being able to kick down your sandcastle in the sandbox. Even after this would happen I have already explained over and over and over again how this can be done nearly risk free for less profit. If this feature was implemented I am completely at a loss as to who would suffer other than people who feel the need to run damsel in distress for every empire.
Left as things are, it is impossible to balance the risk of piracy to rewards in Low Sec. As has been discussed before, so long as PvE requires flying pi+¦atas and allows pirates to do as they do for as long as they wish with no meaningful penalties to make them stop then the rewards would have to be hundreds of millions per minute. I have seen a gang effectively lock a smaller corp in stations for an entire weekend for no better reason than to do so. This speaks volumes for the inability of the corp to fight, and just as much for the pirates willingness to spend large amounts of time enjoying griefing others for no real reward.
Proof? What would you accept? Look at the quarterly reports that CCP puts out. The vast majority of the game is played in High Security space. I can see the crowds in Jita from where I'm docked in Minmatar space atm. I agree that the PvE side of things needs improving very badly, but almost everyone I've ever spoken too about the game came for the cool internet space ships, and most of them left due to the unchecked actions of pirates.
I know low sec is more profitable.... your claim was that there was no reason to go to Low Sec. There is, the higher profits. What you wish to create is not a reason to go there, but a requirement. To the pirate mindset, Non-consent only applies to allowing them to do as they wish to others, not about making them change their own actions.
I understand how pirates work. I know how to maintain safe spots, watch D-scan, keep an eye on local, and not get caught. That sort of gameplay is simply not fun to the carebears you want to hunt. The added profit of low sec is made irrelevant by the pirates that call the place home.
It's possible I'm incompetent, but if that is the case, so is the vast majority of EVE players that won't go into lowsec for it's higher rewards despite what you want to claim is 'minimal risk'. How about all the highsec alts fueling their main's PvP habit? All of them claim that PvE is so boring and they hate doing it, yet almost none will do it in Low Sec where profits are higher and apparently risk is nearly non-existent despite the fact that they could do the hated PvE for less time and get back to whatever it is they do faster. I guess those people are just bad at PvP too.
Your comment on mining is exactly my point. The rewards are there, but simply not worth the increased pain in the rear that doing anything but piracy in Low Sec entails.
I would point out that someone is causing consequences to your gameplay. You are dissatisfied with both the value and frequency of haulers where you want to hunt. This will force you to either change activities or locations. You are not a trader, and you have no right to determine their standards of satisfaction or success. That is the nature of sandbox gameplay. It is what you make of it. Rather than take personal responsibility for your own enjoyment or success, you want to change the game to remove those qualities from someone else to enhance your own.
There are alternatives, but they require a lot of work, dedication, and team building to achieve. You could gather like minded pirates, and put your own ISK and efforts on the line. You could create a new trade hub in Low Sec by selling things at or below cost, and buying them at a premium, making up the difference by supplying your hub with the proceeds of your pirated goods---do this with enough people for long enough, establish a modicum of security in the area yourself and the shortened supply chains would draw business from Null Sec alliances away from Jita to your own.
The problem isn't that you are starved for content. The problem is that you are too lazy to adjust your play to reality
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Daedalus II
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
159
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Posted - 2013.05.02 15:31:00 -
[334] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:I like this idea. It would make hauling more lucrative, it would make piracy viable and it would give anti-pirates something to do. It would give a stronger identity to each race individually. It may give high sec corps greater reason to exist, and potentially a good place to learn the ropes for pvp. (Just think how hard it is for experienced people to get in a good roam then think of new corps.) And because of the cost of JF fuel (and the fact that it's going up) it would take a pretty good margin of difference for JF pilots to be able to make jumping worth it.
This change doesn't make space any less safe, it just makes it so there are greater risk vs reward opportunities for hauling piracy and anti-piracy. I agree with this and the original poster. |
Vesan Terakol
Almost Deliberate
0
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Posted - 2013.05.02 16:07:00 -
[335] - Quote
As I rudely introduce myself in this discussion, I want to state, that I'm a relatively new player to EVE - only a year of active play and most of the time I've spent dipping into low and trying to get the rare jewels you can find there. Whether it will be ratting in my absurdly fitted Cynabal or ninja mining in a Retriever (crazy, ain't i?), I've always noticed only a single time, when an organized corporation mining fleet jumped in with a Rorqual, several miners and combat escorts, probably to mine a nice grav site. And i kept wondering - if you can do that, why don't? Cant you get some friends to guard your backside while you do your stuff? Of course you can, but there's no reason to, as you can do pretty much the same all alone somewhere else. So, is the average EVE player that antisocial? Is the local chat intended only to spam your scams in trade hubs or shout insults at people you killed/refuse to fight you (I had one of those wannabe pirates trying to mock my aforementioned Cynabal for having a cloak)? Why I haven't met a single person that wants to play a vigilante in low sec? Isn't that what the first trailer of EVE i've ever seen presented it to be like? In short, I would support ANY idea that will greatly incentivise, even force cooperative play. Sure, it could be just me lacking the social skills to make a nice lowsec mining fleet happen (an old dream of mine), but some help from game's design perspective is always nice. Just think of what was mentioned repeatedly during Fan Fest in different forms - CCP wants the players to drive game - not NPCs. If people need to be mildly forced into interacting with each other - so be it!
P.S.: Just to clarify why i mentioned the game driven by players vs NPC - isn't high sec exactly a place where NPCs take over a significant percentage of the gameplay, allowing us to play singe and in the meantime shout "I play the best MMO out there"? |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 16:22:00 -
[336] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Theia Matova wrote:
So as said I do agree about the low secs. Perhaps even breaking the 0.5s links between empires and changing them to low sec. Yet this change would affect so many things that its not a simple change to make.
I honestly think that any chaos caused by this change would be minimal and only for a short time. All of the empires have industrialists in them who make things, the thing is they move everything to Jita. With the upcoming buff to nullsec reducing the need to use Jita this may be a better time than ever to do this. If Jita suddenly became starved it would only be a short term hiccup that would smooth itself out over time, like the removal of the super highway gates to Yulai.
It would plunge market into chaos but yes it would stabilize over time. This is not one of the significant things but also player transport and podding should be considered. New players would need access to some kind of scout frig that was easy to gain access to perhaps cloaky shuttle? With bit longer align time than the original shuttles. This would affect basically everything it would also give more opportunities for industrial playing capsuleers due to fluctuating market. |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:42:00 -
[337] - Quote
I semi like this idea, the reason I dislike it is because knowing players these in between systems would become like Rancer or Amamake, that's not to say that the idea itself is bad though, 0.5 bottlenecks seem to be rather dangerous anyway if you are carrying valuables.
All in all I do strongly dislike the way eve just 'cuts off', and would prefer a more gradual slide of protection and benefits (blops allowed to jump in and out of 0.5s, killable concord or maybe just have the navy as system defence there instead in 0.4 and 0.5)
Its a tough one.
Earlier today I saw a freighter being escorted by players from the same corporation, this I find is extremely rare in highsec and is possibly because its so safe they don't usually feel the need to have an escort? More NPC thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
663
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:47:00 -
[338] - Quote
Loki Feiht wrote:I semi like this idea, the reason I dislike it is because knowing players these in between systems would become like Rancer or Amamake, that's not to say that the idea itself is bad though, 0.5 bottlenecks seem to be rather dangerous anyway if you are carrying valuables.
All in all I do strongly dislike the way eve just 'cuts off', and would prefer a more gradual slide of protection and benefits (blops allowed to jump in and out of 0.5s, killable concord or maybe just have the navy as system defence there instead in 0.4 and 0.5)
Its a tough one.
Earlier today I saw a freighter being escorted by players from the same corporation, this I find is extremely rare in highsec and is possibly because its so safe they don't usually feel the need to have an escort?
If you add enough bypasses then it should be fine.
Ammamake is not camped 24/7 anymore and rancer is rancer because if you look at the map, there is 0 method of getting around it. It is as bottleneck as a bottleneck can get. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
478
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:55:00 -
[339] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote: Post in the thread if you like this idea help! A simple "I like this idea!" would be nice!So moving stuff from place to place in eve isn't really all that dangerous, difficult, interesting, or that profitable most of the time. Piracy isn't all that profitable either. So why not add more lowsec between the 4 empires. By more I mean, it would be utterly impossible to get from gallente space to caldari space without crossing lowsec at some point. This would buff trading by making it harder, weird i know but hear me out. The less freighters going back and forth from jita to dodixie moving ice, the more expensive ice is in the area's where it can't be mined. Faction modules become items that must be smuggled across dangerous open waters. Pirates actively hunt badgers full of ore, trading corporations setup large fleets to escort freighters, etc. When I watch TV and see pirates they are plundering trade routes and making commerce harder, eve pirates don't really affect commerce at all. Also maybe these new systems that border hisec should be strategically devoid of stations to make it harder for jump freighters to move things? Or perhaps the ability to setup a pos on one of these border areas would create a strategic harbor worth defending from pirates, while the owners of this tower can charge tariffs to cyno at their safe haven. Imagine all the fun that can be had when you actually have to be at risk to move things? Sure their is suicide ganking but that only happens if your hauling a stupid amount of things or are just unlucky. If this change was added i would consider a cloaking hauler to move items myself since I am not as inclined to do research to exploit the market under the current landscape. Also with this change certain changes could be made to hauling ships to make them more capable of defending themselves, or be more easily escorted and defended from attackers by logistics vessels. On top of that the fact more gate camps would start popping up. Now I know Gate camps suck, however think about the implications of having a bunch of fleets on every gate, finding fights would be trivial in low sec. Control of the gate camps would be something actually worth fighting over instead of random brawls and roams for no reason that dot low sec. Many people say "HOW DARE YOU INTERFRE WITH MY PLAYSTYLE!" To that I respond how important to you is it that you run the damsel in distress once in every empire with your 2 billion isk mission boat? Those who fear low sec would still easily be able to live in one empire with almost nothing changed about their gameplay. ADDITION Ore distribution in the four empires would be changed along with ship mineral costs. Minmatar ships will be built with ores found more commonly in minmatar space etc. Not a necessity for this idea to work but it would be cool. Also fix nullsec industry while your at it. New thread about this topic started in CSM Assembly Hall https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175823&find=unreadProposed layout of the new regions and lore explanation https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2234451#post2234451
I like some elements of this idea., but I'd do it as such
Leave low sec mechanics the same so in space, anything goes, but as someone else stated, Border low sec gates should have faction police at the gates and any criminal activity would be punished accordingly.
These faction police would only be at border gates, not regular low sec gates. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 17:12:00 -
[340] - Quote
Loki Feiht wrote:Earlier today I saw a freighter being escorted by players from the same corporation, this I find is extremely rare in highsec and is possibly because its so safe they don't usually feel the need to have an escort?
I believe that people are simply too lazy to do it and when you would actually do it with real people it would fast become so expensive that no one wanted to do it anyway. It would perhaps get more better if freighter cargo bay was increased and it was higher right to fly them. Then you would most likely want to fly escort due to the fact you had that much at stake. Yet I know that you can very well make expensive loads even now ;)
Of course you could change the games rules so far that you have to do it but then probably lot of people simply quits because they won't see the point anymore.
This is also one thing that actually promotes multiaccounting. Its so simple fly scout / webber for freighter. Its nice that other people can really help freighter pilots but its sad that its so appealing to do with multiaccount. Anyway thats a different topic. |
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Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 22:46:00 -
[341] - Quote
I think its strange we get hulkaggedon and burn jita type events but never a make it safe event eh? More NPC thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
183
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:28:00 -
[342] - Quote
Loki Feiht wrote:I think its strange we get hulkaggedon and burn jita type events but never a make it safe event eh? Get a bunch of pure hisec occupants and start securing rancer or something. It CAN be done, but the level of dedication and organization required is opposite of what most casual gamers can commit to.
Still, there were players shooting TEST and Goonies and helping Concord. Just because we don't have a lot of time to play, doesn't mean we can.t defend ourselves.
Hisec =/= Carebear
Hisec = Secure
You can find carebears in every type of space, and with the upcoming expansion, you'll find far more in Null. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:27:00 -
[343] - Quote
You know, when the Battle for Caldari Prime thing happened there was something said about things changing with the caldari breaking the pact with CONCORD or something to that effect. Maybe there is already stuff in the works to this effect. Maybe it's sooner than expected :) |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
663
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:29:00 -
[344] - Quote
Ruze wrote: Get a bunch of pure hisec occupants and start securing rancer or something. It CAN be done, but the level of dedication and organization required is opposite of what most casual gamers can commit to.
Still, there were players shooting TEST and Goonies and helping Concord. Just because we don't have a lot of time to play, doesn't mean we can.t defend ourselves.
Hisec =/= Carebear
Hisec = Secure
You can find carebears in every type of space, and with the upcoming expansion, you'll find far more in Null.
Lived in hisec for a long time wardecing carebears. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear Limitless Inc.
117
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Posted - 2013.05.03 15:44:00 -
[345] - Quote
I've never really known why the highsec empires needed to border one another. The area people do FW in is pretty small too.
I really like the idea of CCP grabbing the four corners of the Empire Space and ripping them apart leaving a ton of lo-sec regions between them.
As a concession I wouldn't mind the radius of the region gates to be made a little bigger - or more region gates to be put up into this new dead man's land. Amamake and Rancer aren't fun - It's kinda "Yeah, I get it" - but meh. There's something about Rancer that is just naff - whereas me losing my massive freighter off of Atlar was kinda fun (in a morbid way) it was a chase of sorts.
And my story of losing that freighter is a case-in-point of why splitting the empires up would be good. My Freighter was on it's way to the Orien Island of High-sec southeast of the Minnie High Sec. It WAS worth the risk - I'd done similar stuff before - in Amamake - risk/reward - read the EVE Kill comments on that kill - Turn Left are ace PVP'ers and I still nearly got my Freighter away!! We play games for fun - and that was fun - the chase had my heart rate up a fair bit. Afterwards loads of people started turning up to see if they could get the lootz too - dunno if there were any fights over it.
So yeah - Split up empire space - Go for it! |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
665
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 17:49:00 -
[346] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:I've never really known why the highsec empires needed to border one another. The area people do FW in is pretty small too.
I really like the idea of CCP grabbing the four corners of the Empire Space and ripping them apart leaving a ton of lo-sec regions between them.
As a concession I wouldn't mind the radius of the region gates to be made a little bigger - or more region gates to be put up into this new dead man's land. Amamake and Rancer aren't fun - It's kinda "Yeah, I get it" - but meh. There's something about Rancer that is just naff - whereas me losing my massive freighter off of Atlar was kinda fun (in a morbid way) it was a chase of sorts.
And my story of losing that freighter is a case-in-point of why splitting the empires up would be good. My Freighter was on it's way to the Orien Island of High-sec southeast of the Minnie High Sec. It WAS worth the risk - I'd done similar stuff before - in Amamake - risk/reward - read the EVE Kill comments on that kill - Turn Left are ace PVP'ers and I still nearly got my Freighter away!! We play games for fun - and that was fun - the chase had my heart rate up a fair bit. Afterwards loads of people started turning up to see if they could get the lootz too - dunno if there were any fights over it.
So yeah - Split up empire space - Go for it!
There ya go, CCP.
Do this. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
General Guardian
The Guardian Knights
6
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Posted - 2013.05.05 23:17:00 -
[347] - Quote
This idea gets GG's stamp of approval.
Getting players to actually be sitting at thier computer instead of afking freighters all day making abundant amounts of isk would probably reduce suicide ganking a bit as well. This would also encourage newer players to experience low sec space while exploring different faction space without forcing them to PvP. Its reasonably easy to get through low sec in a frigate.
Although I can see the argument pop up about how easy it is to lose implants via being podded for less experienced pilots and that high sec players shouldnt be forced to use empty clones or update clones when something goes wrong because theyre |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
666
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:58:00 -
[348] - Quote
General Guardian wrote:This idea gets GG's stamp of approval.
Getting players to actually be sitting at thier computer instead of afking freighters all day making abundant amounts of isk would probably reduce suicide ganking a bit as well. This would also encourage newer players to experience low sec space while exploring different faction space without forcing them to PvP. Its reasonably easy to get through low sec in a frigate.
Although I can see the argument pop up about how easy it is to lose implants via being podded for less experienced pilots and that high sec players shouldnt be forced to use empty clones or update clones when something goes wrong because they're unsure how to get away in their pod quickly
We shouldn't design the game to accommodate the ignorant people who have been playing long enough to have expensive implants and not realize that low sec is dangerous. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.05.07 01:35:00 -
[349] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:General Guardian wrote:This idea gets GG's stamp of approval.
Getting players to actually be sitting at thier computer instead of afking freighters all day making abundant amounts of isk would probably reduce suicide ganking a bit as well. This would also encourage newer players to experience low sec space while exploring different faction space without forcing them to PvP. Its reasonably easy to get through low sec in a frigate.
Although I can see the argument pop up about how easy it is to lose implants via being podded for less experienced pilots and that high sec players shouldnt be forced to use empty clones or update clones when something goes wrong because they're unsure how to get away in their pod quickly We shouldn't design the game to accommodate the ignorant people who have been playing long enough to have expensive implants and not realize that low sec is dangerous.
Agreed
You do get a warning when you enter low sec anyways. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
35
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Posted - 2013.05.07 01:59:00 -
[350] - Quote
I am a trader and ship builder and I approve of this idea as well. Good idea Ted, we need more ways to create emergent game play and this would defenately be a good step forward.
As someone already said, "true traders corp would emerge and escort their goods creating conflict and not these ten man alt corp"
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7059/c00286794da9496e2b391.jpg[/IMG]
Rule 34 ^ |
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1071
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Posted - 2013.05.07 03:53:00 -
[351] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:I am a trader and ship builder and I approve of this idea as well. Good idea Ted, we need more ways to create emergent game play and this would defenately be a good step forward.
As someone already said, "true traders corp would emerge and escort their goods creating conflict and not these ten man alt corp"
Oh look, your alt thinks it's a good idea. And lol @ "escort." Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
668
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:28:00 -
[352] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Oh look, your alt thinks it's a good idea. And lol @ "escort."
If you don't have anything to contribute leave. I already debunked your points and you for some reason choose not to actually argue but to instead troll.
If you can do nothing but make false accusations then maybe there is something wrong about the viewpoints you are trying to put forward. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Llyona
Posthuman Society 10110001100111101000
17
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:47:00 -
[353] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Ruze wrote: Get a bunch of pure hisec occupants and start securing rancer or something. It CAN be done, but the level of dedication and organization required is opposite of what most casual gamers can commit to.
Still, there were players shooting TEST and Goonies and helping Concord. Just because we don't have a lot of time to play, doesn't mean we can.t defend ourselves.
Hisec =/= Carebear
Hisec = Secure
You can find carebears in every type of space, and with the upcoming expansion, you'll find far more in Null.
Lived in hisec for a long time wardecing carebears.
Yeah? No one cares.
Do you want to get some super awesome tears from a nearly endless source of carebears? Go into an anom system in nullsec (Military 5) with a cloaky. Watch as the tears stream in from all the nullbears, mainly because they can't run their bots or anoms. Nullsec anom systems are quite possibly the biggest concentration of carebears in EVE. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Caljiav Ocanon
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:05:00 -
[354] - Quote
People say that no one has a right to anything in EVE right?
So why do people feel they have deserve an easy, minimal risk target rich environment?
That's what this proposal is asking for in a nutshell. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013 |
Nahkep Narmelion
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
53
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:10:00 -
[355] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:
I have already said probably 5 times why Caldari space would not be concentrated and you seem to ignore my points every time.
You keep having to say it because your reasons are note very good. You've already admitted that this goal of this is to reduce trade. One outcome might be that even more is concentrated in Jita than prior to this change. I've noted way back up stream I used to do invention and manufacturing. I did it in Gallente space. After this change I'd have incentive to pick up shop and move it if I could (and if I considered) it still profitable enough (this one is questionable--invention is click intensive and boring).
Of course not everyone would move, but Jita is already the main trade hub. Would this change break that? IDK, but null sec people might still want to use it (maybe Amarr for people in the south).
Quote:If everyone lived in caldari space then caldari ores, LP items, and ice would be ******* insanely cheap. All station slots would have 4 year long ques, it would suck balls. If carebears move to other empires, then war dec corps will follow. If their is a high demand for replacement goods traders will follow.
Or not. If everyone lived there, there would also be higher demand. Thus it is possible prices might not change, could be higher or could be lower. You really make yourself look foolish with the statements couched in absolute certainty. You don't know what the **** would happen. Neither do I, but I admit it.
Quote:So if items in other empires are more valuable, that means living in other space has an advantage, unlike solitude. So your point is not thought through and ignorant.
It depends on the demand doesn't it. Sure a T1 blaster might cost 3x what it does in Gallente space vs. Jita post change, but if I can't even sell enough to earn the same profit as I could selling a larger batch in Jita at a lower price/gun...why bother? Price isn't everything. Price changes tell you where to re-allocate resources. To take an extreme example, prices, after a disaster, for things like water and canned goods sky rocket. Why? That is the market "saying"--"Hey, over here we have considerably shortages and unsatisfied demand; send lots more stuff ASAP." You can also see it with monopolists. A monopolist could maximize the price he charges. Do monopolists do this? No.
Quote:The reason everyone is in Jita is because it is so easy to get to other empires. Having a central super hub is convenient since the money it saves is so great versus the time their is no reason not to. I believe in the 2012 fanfest or maybe 2011 the CCP economist deduced that excluding Jita the populations in the empires are equal in population. Jita might remain the biggest hub after this change if large alliance would continue to purchase their goods from there.
Exactly why the change you've been pimping might not work. You've finally admitted it. Players like having a super-hub. After this change, they might still like having a super-hub and this may do nothing to stop that. At best it might make a second super-hub (Amarr). Might it be at the expense of Jita? Possibly, but it could very well be at the expense of Rens and Dodixie. |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
203
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:53:00 -
[356] - Quote
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:Commander Ted wrote:
I have already said probably 5 times why Caldari space would not be concentrated and you seem to ignore my points every time.
You keep having to say it because your reasons are note very good. You've already admitted that this goal of this is to reduce trade. One outcome might be that even more is concentrated in Jita than prior to this change. I've noted way back up stream I used to do invention and manufacturing. I did it in Gallente space. After this change I'd have incentive to pick up shop and move it if I could (and if I considered) it still profitable enough (this one is questionable--invention is click intensive and boring). Of course not everyone would move, but Jita is already the main trade hub. Would this change break that? IDK, but null sec people might still want to use it (maybe Amarr for people in the south). Quote:If everyone lived in caldari space then caldari ores, LP items, and ice would be ******* insanely cheap. All station slots would have 4 year long ques, it would suck balls. If carebears move to other empires, then war dec corps will follow. If their is a high demand for replacement goods traders will follow. Or not. If everyone lived there, there would also be higher demand. Thus it is possible prices might not change, could be higher or could be lower. You really make yourself look foolish with the statements couched in absolute certainty. You don't know what the **** would happen. Neither do I, but I admit it. Quote:So if items in other empires are more valuable, that means living in other space has an advantage, unlike solitude. So your point is not thought through and ignorant. It depends on the demand doesn't it. Sure a T1 blaster might cost 3x what it does in Gallente space vs. Jita post change, but if I can't even sell enough to earn the same profit as I could selling a larger batch in Jita at a lower price/gun...why bother? Price isn't everything. Price changes tell you where to re-allocate resources. To take an extreme example, prices, after a disaster, for things like water and canned goods sky rocket. Why? That is the market "saying"--"Hey, over here we have considerably shortages and unsatisfied demand; send lots more stuff ASAP." You can also see it with monopolists. A monopolist could maximize the price he charges. Do monopolists do this? No. Quote:The reason everyone is in Jita is because it is so easy to get to other empires. Having a central super hub is convenient since the money it saves is so great versus the time their is no reason not to. I believe in the 2012 fanfest or maybe 2011 the CCP economist deduced that excluding Jita the populations in the empires are equal in population. Jita might remain the biggest hub after this change if large alliance would continue to purchase their goods from there. Exactly why the change you've been pimping might not work. You've finally admitted it. Players like having a super-hub. After this change, they might still like having a super-hub and this may do nothing to stop that. At best it might make a second super-hub (Amarr). Might it be at the expense of Jita? Possibly, but it could very well be at the expense of Rens and Dodixie.
Honestly, I like the idea because I feel that it will minimize the 'central trade hub' idea a lot and start pushing local hubs a lot more. The centralized hub of Jita, in my mind, needs a lot of it's oomph taken out and more placed in regional and local hubs.
Plus, if it's dangerous to haul goods, the value of said goods will vary more greatly in each region. I'll have lasers all day in Amarr, but getting missiles or autocannons might cost me more than they would in their areas.
Finally, as mentioned earlier, I hate the fact that mass-trade is mostly a solo endeavor. Single accounts living in NPC corps, flying freighters to and from Jita. They stick to NPC corps to keep from getting war dec'd, to avoid loss. I like the fact that this idea would sincerely push those who are willing to make trade into a group endeavor into more profitable territory, while nuking the solo trader's profit margin considerably.
If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
668
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:56:00 -
[357] - Quote
Llyona wrote:
Yeah? No one cares.
Do you want to get some super awesome tears from a nearly endless source of carebears? Go into an anom system in nullsec (Military 5) with a cloaky. Watch as the tears stream in from all the nullbears, mainly because they can't run their bots or anoms. Nullsec anom systems are quite possibly the biggest concentration of carebears in EVE.
>Says no one cares, then proceeds to ramble off topic. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
668
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:57:00 -
[358] - Quote
Caljiav Ocanon wrote:People say that no one has a right to anything in EVE right?
So why do people feel they have deserve an easy, minimal risk target rich environment?
That's what this proposal is asking for in a nutshell.
Why do you feel you deserve a easy risk free environment for moving across hisec, despite the fact that you would still have hundreds of systems in each empire for you to carebear in? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
668
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:13:00 -
[359] - Quote
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:TL;DR
A super hub is only possible due to how trivial it is to travel to. If i make things, and I load them into the freighter to take them to market, will I move them to dodixie which is 3 jumps away, or Jita. Jita will only take my freighter an extra hour to get to and a fraction of the time to sell my wares, obviously I will go to Jita.
If low sec was in the way, I would not do this.
If everyone wanted to move to caldari space to build things, then all station slots would be eternally buttraped, you would never get a que. You would make no money mining ice because the ice belts would all be instantly mined (ice anoms coming soon) You would make less money running missions because their is only so much demand for caldari navy invulns. You would make less money doing incursions because they are often not in caldari space. You would make less money selling pvp items to the other factions militias. You would make less mining belts because they would be stripped down even faster. You would make less money doing exploration because of competition.
All of these are reasons not to live in caldari space, so the likelihood of people not selling things in jita, is greater then everyone living out of jita.
The possibility of jita becoming a bigger hub is probably one of the least likely of all the possible outcomes of this change. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Caljiav Ocanon
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:20:00 -
[360] - Quote
Carebear Noun A word used by generally unemployed/unemployable males to describe anyone who they dislike in a video game, usually teenage virgins or "men" in their 30s and 40s with no life. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013 |
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