I am sure there are others far more knowledgeable than me who can also share some insight

You got this bit right, then you derped.

If the miners have RR on the field, then you just bring arty and alpha your ******* Hulk to oblivion. Weirdly, RR is amazingly ineffective when the target lasts less than a second.

Secondly, if you "win" (avoid the gank) you just make the ganker more determined, and then you're ****** over a lot worse than if you just stopped mining.

8x T2 smartbombs w/ 5x T2 medium drones pack neither the alpha nor the DPS to drop Hulks. They do about 60% the DPS of a T1-fit Brutix and a quarter of an Alphapest's alpha. MAYBE if you get really lucky and CONCORD takes forever and a half to arrive you might kill something with the smartbomb setup.

Of course if you're in a gang it can work. A gang of Velators could kill a Hulk if they wanted to.

You got this bit right, then you derped.

If the miners have RR on the field, then you just bring arty and alpha your ******* Hulk to oblivion. Weirdly, RR is amazingly ineffective when the target lasts less than a second.

Secondly, if you "win" (avoid the gank) you just make the ganker more determined, and then you're ****** over a lot worse than if you just stopped mining.

Well now that I have set myself up as a goon target for who knows how long, I might as well share some knowledge with my fellow miners. This post is by no means a definitive guide, I am sure there are others far more knowledgeable than me who can also share some insight:

Mackinaws are made of paper. I don't care how you plan to tank one, they can be taken down rather easily. If a Brutix won't work, they will simply bring some friends, or a smart-bombing battleship. Therefore your idea should not be to build yourself a mackinaw tank and "ride it out" as this approach is doomed to failure. To survive this you need to change your tactics on a fundamental level.

If you can afford a Hulk or have a Hulk somewhere, fly a Hulk. Hulks can be tanked more easily with less skill and far more EHP and still remain a viable mining ship. Yes you will lose revenue since the Mackinaw pulls in 4 blocks per cycle vs the Hulk's 3 blocks - but would you rather have 75% of your ice, or have to buy a new ship?

However even if you fly a Hulk, do not get complacent. They are easily popped by disco (smart-bomb equipped) battleships or even someone with lots of skills/implants in a pimped out T2 battlecruiser.

Now to understand the adversary and his tactics: Goonswarm Federation is the 2nd largest alliance in EVE with close to 7,000 players and who knows how many neutral alts. Therefore expect them to launch organized, coordinated assaults involving several players. They have eyes in pretty much every system that matters and are constantly reporting intel back about how many miners are located where. Therefore if you are out mining it's only a matter of minutes before Goonswarm has reported you as a potential target.

This is what will happen if you're lucky: Some neutral that you've probably never seen before will show up at your belt most likely in a rookie ship or a shuttle. They'll hang around 100km or so from you or move in closer if they want to scan you to see how easy a target you'll make. Then they will warp off. A few minutes later you will see the same or a different neutral ship warp right next to your mining ship. This means the suicide-bombing ship is inbound. If you have repping support, you had better hope your repper is awake. If you are alone you should have warped the minute the neutral showed up under 3000 meters from you otherwise you are dead.

If you are not lucky, all of the above will happen with cloaky ships and your only warning (besides seeing strange people in local) is when the suicide ganker shows up at your belt. Even then it's possible to survive if your remote repper is awake - it takes a few seconds after warping to be able to lock someone up.

Usually the goons have been operating in groups of 2 or 3. A suicide bomber, a spotter and a hauler. Sometimes the hauler can double as the spotter. If you see strange industrial/transport ships show up at your belt be aware that his intent is to haul away your stuff from your wreck.

These have been their tactics so far, now let's talk about dealing with them. Buffing is good, but it's not enough. The groups that are having the most success are organizing with remote repping ships. From my personal experience just two large shield transporters are enough to protect an untanked Mackinaw from a single well-armed Brutix. The repping ship should have the miner(s) locked at all times and should be watching local and the belt for unusual/suspicious activity. Remember that a single Brutix can only engage one mining ship and hope to kill it before it gets popped by Concord. Therefore the remote repper should focus all his repping on the ship that's currently being attacked. It is quite possible, Goonswarm being the size that it is, that more than one suicide ship will show up at the same time. In which case if there is a single repper he must choose who to save. Trying to rep everyone at the same time will result in everyone being killed. Better to save one person than none at all.

Another thing I like to do, to complement the remote repping, is having a ship with neuts fitted. My choice is the Dominix because it can fit and run 6 neuts for a long time and still provide enough tank to take a hell of a beating. Neutralizers are useful for the following reason:

A suicide ganker is racing against time. He knows full well that his ship is doomed to be destroyed by concord, therefore the idea is to maximize the damage done in as little time as possible. By neutralizing his cap, you are taking away the ability to fire those very last salvos before concord shows up and kills him. This can easily turn a successful suicide gank run into a miserable failure. Neuts offer another advantage as well which I will discuss in a moment. Obviously trying to fit one ship with both reppers and neuts will end up with you floating around out of cap while your proteg+¬ is destroyed. Choose or the other, or better yet organize with someone else and divide the reponsibilities.

Another ship that can help (but has severe limitations) is a jamming ship like a blackbird, Falcon or Rook. Once the goonie attacks he sets the global criminal flag and turns red to everyone, which means he can be dealt with without problems. A jamming ship, when successful, will shut down his guns and stop the attack cold. However it is chance based and just might not work. Do not rely on ECM ships alone to protect you!

The other thing I wanted to mention is this - Goonswarm is made of human pilots not a scripted AI, so even as we speak they are switching tactics as we miners get organized into fleets. Therefore let's discuss this. Since Goonswarm is made up of nullbears with extremely deep pockets, for now they can afford all sorts of ships for suicide ganking. This includes disco (smart bomb) battleships.

If you are smrt enough to type this all up, why do you even bother mining?

Because high sec miners are not all bots and a lot of them are clueless newbs who don't really deserve what you are handing out to them. It's pretty sad listening in on the goon intel channel and hearing orgasmic exclamations about how they killed a retriever or covetor. Yeah, what a rush.

But organizing a resistance, hmm, ok that sounds like fun.

Because high sec miners are not all bots and a lot of them are clueless newbs who don't really deserve what you are handing out to them.

ahahahahahaha

nobody is ever scared away by combat ships in the belt we think those are a hoot

Really? Then why did the thorax and ruppy run last night?

i presume if a thorax and rupture zoomed onto the field and left, it was because there wasn't anything worth ganking they could reliably gank in cruisers

I know you can have candy. But you're going to have to work a little harder to get it. A ship that can alpha a Mack from range is a bit more expensive than a Brutix with T1 blasters, both in terms of the ship/equipment and the skill on the character to fly it.

There were 3 macks, a hulk, and an orca. A noobship gave the warpin @0. I guess maybe they were afraid of something? Also, why are you getting so ~mad~? It's just internet space pixels...

When you factor in actual loss (insurance FTW) no, not really at all.

...

Your only logical next step is to stop mining. Everything else is stupid.

the real question is, how high does the price of isotopes have to go before it is worth you mining in a battleship instead of a miner?


how much can you mine in a domi?

that might change the dynamics of suicide ganks eh?

No I know you guys have limitless money and industrial power. The real limit is skilled characters you are willing to have take a standing hit. No "10 hour heroes" are going to be doing alphas with artillery tempests. So either you get your real combat pilots here for a gank-fest (but if they're here, they're not THERE defending your null space) and have them take sec status hits, or continue with rookie alts in relatively easy to skill for cruisers.

But null space needs empire space to survive, after a fashion. If all your real pilots start taking sec hits, it's not going to work. So there is a real limit despite what you'd like me to think, and that limit is not money or ships.

this is forum war, your baby words have no place here

and macks can be tanked + linked so they resist a cruiser gank they probably scanned them because, you know, the rookie ship could see you

i would laugh so ******* hard if I saw people ice mining in a dominix

even at hideously insane ice prices thats still making literally pennies an hour

You keep talking about how little they are making an hour???

How come you are all so worried about them then?

Don't just "survive" the goons, fight back, ***** on some killmails and thwart their nefarious plot. Put a couple fast locking ranged ships in the belt with you and one of two things will happen.

- they won't try to gank you.

I wasn't in a mack/hulk/orca...I was waiting to help kill those two cruisers. And yes, everyone could see me. Deterrence, Reagan style. Also, I'm having a lot of fun taunting goonies on forums, making them mad enough to start calling me bad names on an internet forum. It's amazing how quickly this actually happens.

I wasn't in a mack/hulk/orca...I was waiting to help kill those two cruisers. And yes, everyone could see me. Deterrence, Reagan style. Also, I'm having a lot of fun taunting goonies on forums, making them mad enough to start calling me bad names on an internet forum. It's amazing how quickly this actually happens.

waiting to kill the crusiers how? after concord blew them up?

Sure, you can use strips on a battleship.
Sure.

Perhaps in this context "killing" actually means denying them a kill, making them die for nothing.

Perhaps in this context "killing" actually means denying them a kill, making them die for nothing.

ok so the verb kill, which means to destroy or do away with actually means to deny a kill, the opposite of killing, right.

Yeah, it's about the same twisted logic that you use when you get an adrenaline rush attacking an industrial ship that has no turrets or launchers and is incapable of fighting back, and brag about a "kill mail" and even keep a "kill board". Logic can be funny that way.

Yeah, it's about the same twisted logic that you use when you get an adrenaline rush attacking an industrial ship that has no turrets or launchers and is incapable of fighting back, and brag about a "kill mail" and even keep a "kill board". Logic can be funny that way.

Yeah, it's about the same twisted logic that you use when you get an adrenaline rush attacking an industrial ship that has no turrets or launchers and is incapable of fighting back, and brag about a "kill mail" and even keep a "kill board". Logic can be funny that way.

If you don't like the idea of being the fish in this game, buy yourself a rod and line.

No I know you guys have limitless money and industrial power. The real limit is skilled characters you are willing to have take a standing hit

Yep and turn the predators into the prey.

It's a funny old game, you can get to -10 and keep on gankin' in highsec.

The only limit on how often people will do this, is their level of commitment.

Sure, you can keep griefing (let's not call it ganking, I'd like to reserve that word for low sec players who are far more creative than you) all you want regardless of your sec level. But for all that other stuff - like - moving goods to and from the market hubs, well, that's hard to do with -10. So you can choose to stay a null-bear forever where -10 doesn't matter, but you will always have to rely on someone else to move your stuff around for you for a long, long time. Like you said, it takes a lot of commitment. On a throwaway alt, who cares. But on a real char? Hmmm.

As for someone pointing out earlier a metaphor about being a hawk diving on its prey, I see the goon's current campaign as a mushroom sprouting on a turd. Please don't kid yourselves, there is nothing glorious or even hard about what you are doing. Even a 10 hour old character can do it...

Sure, you can keep griefing (let's not call it ganking, I'd like to reserve that word for low sec players who are far more creative than you) all you want regardless of your sec level. But for all that other stuff - like - moving goods to and from the market hubs, well, that's hard to do with -10. So you can choose to stay a null-bear forever where -10 doesn't matter, but you will always have to rely on someone else to move your stuff around for you for a long, long time. Like you said, it takes a lot of commitment. On a throwaway alt, who cares. But on a real char? Hmmm.

As for someone pointing out earlier a metaphor about being a hawk diving on its prey, I see the goon's current campaign as a mushroom sprouting on a turd. Please don't kid yourselves, there is nothing glorious or even hard about what you are doing. Even a 10 hour old character can do it...

Please don't kid yourselves, there is nothing glorious or even hard about what you are doing. Even a 10 hour old character can do it...

griefing isn't against the rules either

Went to ALA to add corpses to my collection.

Disappointing so far.

BL

griefing isn't against the rules either

you may be goon's mascot. Looking for your very own goony epeen?

Yeah, I mean since we're sharing pictures of empty belts and everything:

http://i.imgur.com/GfrCH.jpg


Oh wait, what?

COOL OP BRO

It was an idea I was playing with. Thanks for pointing that out, lolz. Almost as good as posting gonegalt in a public forum. All I have to do is change the name now.

Sure, you can keep griefing (let's not call it ganking, I'd like to reserve that word for low sec players who are far more creative than you) all you want regardless of your sec level. But for all that other stuff - like - moving goods to and from the market hubs, well, that's hard to do with -10. So you can choose to stay a null-bear forever where -10 doesn't matter, but you will always have to rely on someone else to move your stuff around for you for a long, long time. Like you said, it takes a lot of commitment. On a throwaway alt, who cares. But on a real char? Hmmm.

somehow i don't think the jabber channel name is gonna help you much

No, that's why I burned the channel with my post yesterday. Apart from a few laughs I wasn't getting any useful intel anyway apart from "hmm the goons are up to something". The suicide bomber always has tactical surprise anyway.

But for all that other stuff - like - moving goods to and from the market hubs, well, that's hard to do with -10. So you can choose to stay a null-bear forever where -10 doesn't matter, but you will always have to rely on someone else to move your stuff around for you for a long, long time. Like you said, it takes a lot of commitment. On a throwaway alt, who cares. But on a real char? Hmmm.

Yeah, I mean since we're sharing pictures of empty belts and everything:

http://i.imgur.com/GfrCH.jpg


Oh wait, what?

No, that's why I burned the channel with my post yesterday. Apart from a few laughs I wasn't getting any useful intel anyway apart from "hmm the goons are up to something". The suicide bomber always has tactical surprise anyway.

Hint 2: it doesn't involve mining.

This ISK I use to fit alpha ships to blow up more miners. Which no RR and "fast lockers" and "neut ships" has yet to find a way to block.

Soldier on, good sir

o7

And who collects the minerals to make those ships and the fuel to run the towers of the stations where they are made? Miners. This is the old blah blah I'm a piwate I am so much better than you argument. You play your way, I play mine. While you might like doing 15 minutes spurts of adrenaline, I like being able to do other stuff between cycles. But just the fact that the goons are able to squeeze the price of isotopes so easily underlines just how badly you need miners in the game. It's all very well now that everyone has huge stockpiles, but even goons are going to need oxygen isotopes eventually when the stockpiles start running low At best you are cutting your own throats. The entire economy is based on mining as the input. PVP is on the other side of the economy - the sink. You really can't have one without the other and expect some sort of balance, which is what an economy is.

What I see here, is 9 accounts being used to support 6 actual miners.

Good ISK per hour in that setup, then?

About as profitable as all the goons wandering around looking for lone targets to pick off?

i'm the goon cfo i came up with the interdiction idea

And who collects the minerals to make those ships and the fuel to run the towers of the stations where they are made? Miners. This is the old blah blah I'm a piwate I am so much better than you argument. You play your way, I play mine. While you might like doing 15 minutes spurts of adrenaline, I like being able to do other stuff between cycles. But just the fact that the goons are able to squeeze the price of isotopes so easily underlines just how badly you need miners in the game. It's all very well now that everyone has huge stockpiles, but even goons are going to need oxygen isotopes eventually when the stockpiles start running low At best you are cutting your own throats. The entire economy is based on mining as the input. PVP is on the other side of the economy - the sink. You really can't have one without the other and expect some sort of balance, which is what an economy is.

How many goons are here fighting against a single miner for their internet spaceship valuable reputation?

breaking news guys, Ptraci already won.


Can I hug you?

How many goons are here fighting against a single miner for their internet spaceship valuable reputation?

breaking news guys, Ptraci already won.


Can I hug you?

The entire economy is based on mining as the input

When you factor in actual loss (insurance FTW) no, not really at all.

Your post is ********.

You know the following things:

a) Some people want to kill your ship
b) There is always a way they can achieve this

Your only logical next step is to stop mining. Everything else is stupid.

What I see here, is 9 accounts being used to support 6 actual miners.

Good ISK per hour in that setup, then?

What I see here is the game being played as it's meant to be.

With teamwork and coordinated ops.

Well done.

About as profitable as all the goons wandering around looking for lone targets to pick off?

oh hey, found another outpost, what do you know

But we're having fun.

Can you honestly say anyone finds mining to be fun? Especially ice mining? Hell no. That's why everyone runs Miner bots.

Nah... Mining is boring as Hell.

Now setting up T2 Fleets to protect Miners and watch Goons run around all frustrated from system to system looking for an easy kill and the chance to get in on a Dead Goonie KM....

Priceless!

Curious...


The response time from the goons to this thread are way under the time it would take to read the OP. But we are not including the time it takes to realize that the thread is even here.

Makes me wonder...

ooops?

http://i.imgur.com/UiSQf.png

ooops?

http://i.imgur.com/UiSQf.png

Guys guys I have -10 sec status how will I ever do anything in Eve Online: A Bad Spaceship Game

Oh wait I am a capital pilot, whoops! Turns out I can't go into highsec anyways!

At least energy pulse weapon V is now useful (getting that extra sb cycle in!)!

Naw, if you want to see funny:

http://i.imgur.com/qtoo0.jpg

Ala is usually a pretty quiet system. Don't think I have ever seen so many neutrals here... they must all want to come shake my hand.

double post

srspost: literally every ice belt I have been to so far (5) has been deserted, please come out and mine ice it is 100% safe

Nah... Mining is boring as Hell.

Now setting up T2 Fleets to protect Miners and watch Goons run around all frustrated from system to system looking for an easy kill and the chance to get in on a Dead Goonie KM....

Priceless!

I know you can have candy. But you're going to have to work a little harder to get it. A ship that can alpha a Mack from range is a bit more expensive than a Brutix with T1 blasters, both in terms of the ship/equipment and the skill on the character to fly it.

WANTED: DEAD OR DEAD

OFFER VALID IN GALLENTE SPACE ONLY

Mackinaws, Hulks, and Orcas for crimes against non-botting free folk throughout New Eden. For their crimes, the following bounties will be paid per ship killed:

Retriever/Covetor: 10 mil
Mackinaw: 20 mil
Hulk: 50mil
Orca: 350mil
The pod of any of the above ships: 10 mil


SUPER-TANK
Super-tanked hulks and mackinaws (and their pods) are eligible for double payout due to the coordination & teamwork required to take out those who resist. Resistance must be crushed. State SUPERTANK in your reimbursement request. Determination of "supertank" is made by the reimbursement team, but a good rule of thumb is tank rigs, Damage Control II and more than one person on the killmail.

Mackinaw 40mil
Hulk 80mil
Supertank pod 20mil


Smug Pubbie Beat-Down Bonus 25mil isk
If an empire dweller brags in local about how you can't take him down, bring it, you don't got what it takes, etc... and you DO take him out, post a snippet of that smug pubbie conversation in your bounty request and collect a cool 25mil isk.

heh

watch as they say YOU'RE GOING TO DEPLETE ALL YOUR ALLIANCE'S ISK TO KILL ICE MINERS

someone should link our finances

Now setting up T2 Fleets to protect Miners and watch Goons run around all frustrated from system to system looking for an easy kill and the chance to get in on a Dead Goonie KM....

Priceless!

What was quite funny was watching the goonies run when a real PVP alliance showed up just now in Ala wondering why one of their adjacent systems was so busy.

As you can see, the more you resist, the more I pay our pilots. But keep inspiring that resistance buddy, it just makes our pilots richer!

What was quite funny was watching the goonies run when a real PVP alliance showed up just now in Ala wondering why one of their adjacent systems was so busy.

I predict a lot of forged kill-mails in your future.

I predict a lot of forged kill-mails in your future.

srspost: literally every ice belt I have been to so far (5) has been deserted, please come out and mine ice it is 100% safe

I predict a lot of forged kill-mails in your future.

the last two times you crowed over things you got all your buddies smartbombed,

making worthless pubbies like you suffer is the entire point

forum war and space war are two sides of the same coin and on both sides you are getting sodomized

Every war needs cannon fodder. Those too stupid to be anything but be a bullet magnet.

Looks like that's you. Both on the forum and in the game.

Mr Epeen

Every war needs cannon fodder. Those too stupid to be anything but be a bullet magnet.

Looks like that's you. Both on the forum and in the game.

Mr Epeen

I'm pretty peeved that I was writing a good Eve Online story, only to be interrupted by pesky ice mining covetors and chest beating hulks (they're all dead btw).

Now I've lost my inspiration and I don't have any witty comebacks.

I'm pretty peeved you were writing an Eve Online story that wasn't slashfic.

You didn't let me finish.

I was about to write about the deep space tentacle monster.. slowly squeezing my ships control surfaces.. how even though I was trying to get away it kept pulling me back...

who needs a witty comeback when you can type the first thing you think of and mash the reply button

the deep space tentacle monster.. slowly squeezing my ships control surfaces.. how even though I was trying to get away it kept pulling me back...

We call him the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you're good you get to touch his meatball.

I got them smart-bombed? You mean this whole Gallente Ice interdiction campaign is because of me? You have no one scouting the belts looking for miners? No that's post-hoc reasoning.

What I am impressed with is the amount of attention I am getting, both here and in the game. All those accounts watching me spin. All these trolls trying to get under my skin. Don't you have anything better to do?

I disagree that you can't heavily tank a mack. We blew up a pair of macks yesterday that were rolling around fit like this.

[Mackinaw, funicro's Mackinaw]
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Supplemental Thermal Barrier Emitter

Ice Harvester II
Ice Harvester II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Gets you 20k EHP with all fives, only takes a %3 powergrid implant to fit.

trip report:

brape has a shitload of these fearsome pubbie battleships, and a pair of very bold mining barges

one mining barge down, and someone managed to neut my pod. and jam it. the pod. things they didn't do: scram it, or shoot it.

[quote=Ptraci]
SUPER-TANK
Super-tanked hulks and mackinaws (and their pods) are eligible for double payout due to the coordination & teamwork required to take out those who resist. Resistance must be crushed. State SUPERTANK in your reimbursement request. Determination of "supertank" is made by the reimbursement team, but a good rule of thumb is tank rigs, Damage Control II and more than one person on the killmail.

Mackinaw 40mil
Hulk 80mil
Supertank pod 20mil

ITT:

Goons trying to make themselves relevant and credible again.

How...adorable.

What, no supertank Orca bonus? I figure a max tank Orca is worth 10 max tanked hulks.

I mean damn we took Fountain from IT Alliance, defended Deklein against a coalition of four superalliances and are currently taking Delve, but that pales in comparison to what Crushed Ambitions has done, a corporation too awesome to be in an alliance

i have goosebumps

For example leaving out the part that the ganking cannot be sustained, and regardless of the insurance payouts, the amount of opportunity cost being wasted is astronomical. Or the fact that it benefits others greatly.

Did you just talk about the 'opportunity cost' of a recreational activity? No one is blowing up ice miners to 'make lots of money'. They are blowing them up because it's hilarious and insurance and bounties are only relevant in as much as they offset the 'work' required to sustain the recreational activity.

When you consider that the whole internet spaceships thing is one big glorified spreadsheet, I think "opportunity cost" is relevant. Just take it to mean "I could be having fun doing this instead of having less fun doing that". I mean we have to be pretty weird to enjoy EVE in the first place... most people are busy playing Angry Birds.

When you consider that the whole internet spaceships thing is one big glorified spreadsheet, I think "opportunity cost" is relevant. Just take it to mean "I could be having fun doing this instead of having less fun doing that". I mean we have to be pretty weird to enjoy EVE in the first place... most people are busy playing Angry Birds.

Did you just talk about the 'opportunity cost' of a recreational activity? No one is blowing up ice miners to 'make lots of money'. They are blowing them up because it's hilarious and insurance and bounties are only relevant in as much as they offset the 'work' required to sustain the recreational activity.

holy crap

are you talking about isk/hr favorably in terms of ICE MINING

jesus christ

Rofl. You are not. Others are. And you are their tool.

holy crap

are you talking about isk/hr favorably in terms of ICE MINING

jesus christ

once you wear a Mack, you never go back.

When you consider that the whole internet spaceships thing is one big glorified spreadsheet, I think "opportunity cost" is relevant. Just take it to mean "I could be having fun doing this instead of having less fun doing that". I mean we have to be pretty weird to enjoy EVE in the first place... most people are busy playing Angry Birds.

If I add the value of enjoyment I perceive as a an integer between 1-100 on column AAC of my Eve Online Spreadsheet, it changes the opportunity cost of ganking ice miners by a factor of: Your tears make it worth it whatever the cost.

The only thing that beats ice mining in a fully tricked out Mackinaw top skills, the 5% implant, and a fully skilled Orca pilot is ABC mining in null sec.

But from your attitudes you seem to think that ice miners aren't allowed to own other ships or do other stuff in between mining ops. Hey it's not like once you wear a Mack, you never go back. But it certainly beats hanging around gate-camping or roaming in low sec hoping to find the one guy dumb enough to fight you but not good enough to kill you.

The only thing that beats ice mining in a fully tricked out Mackinaw top skills, the 5% implant, and a fully skilled Orca pilot is ABC mining in null sec.

But from your attitudes you seem to think that ice miners aren't allowed to own other ships or do other stuff in between mining ops. Hey it's not like once you wear a Mack, you never go back. But it certainly beats hanging around gate-camping or roaming in low sec hoping to find the one guy dumb enough to fight you but not good enough to kill you.

The only thing that beats ice mining in a fully tricked out Mackinaw top skills, the 5% implant, and a fully skilled Orca pilot is ABC mining in null sec.