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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1030
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:32:00 -
[181] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I see our solution is still looking for a problem to solve. Is this a rephrase of: "I see titans are still looking for a role to fulfill"?
They have a role now. This discussion is attempting to take away the only role they have left. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2134
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:33:00 -
[182] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:I approve of the plans of adding mass and capacitor limits to jump bridging along with requiring a gimping module. What would happen if the mod was removed and you had to use the pos variant? Then the nullbears need not worry about being hotdropped by a blob, as jump bridges need sov 3, if I remember. Changing the requirement to use a cyno jammer to Strategic Index level 1 instead of level 3.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
734
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:38:00 -
[183] - Quote
@Misha: No, the rules of quoting are quite clear and explained to everyone in high schools around the world. I did not change the meaning of what you said, and thus I am free to cut the quote wherever I want. |

NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
52
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:40:00 -
[184] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I see our solution is still looking for a problem to solve. Is this a rephrase of: "I see titans are still looking for a role to fulfill"? They have a role now. This discussion is attempting to take away the only role they have left. What would happen if the cooldown on DD was halved and all the restrictions on targetting were removed?
I like the idea of the titan being about the Ultimate Kill dealer Ship Ne plus Ultra 9000, not being a taxi with an auto cannon. |

Nylith Empyreal
Crowbar Industries.
176
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:42:00 -
[185] - Quote
I really feel sorry for this ship class. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
734
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:42:00 -
[186] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Ptraci wrote:Misha M'Liena wrote:This! Oh so much this. Remiel said it greatly.
You have to figure out how to fight it, Misha. Except, the way to fight it now is to figure out the passwords to the enemy POS and bump it out. Because titans are rarely put at risk. The fly from POS to POS and are only outside the shield for the time it takes to move from the jump beacon to the shield bubble. The only time a titan or ten are only put at risk is when an alliance is absolutely sure of overwhelming force. Yeah. Figure out how to fight that. I don't agree with nerfing hot drop quantity. Let the titan project power, that's what it's for. But I do agree with making titans more vulnerable. They should not be allowed to POS up. Doesn't anyone have any kind of strategic ability at all? So lure it out - give the titan a target. Give your enemy a reason to bring it out, and set a trap. This is why you fail at titaning - it has nothing to do with the mechanics.
It won't come. Titans simply are not used that way. They are roving taxis and placed into combat only when the pilot is absolutely sure of overwhelming force. In fact there are very few alliances that drop titans on targets, and they usually do so ten at a time, along with supercarriers, dreads and triage carriers. Not one titan at a time.
I still argue that it's not the bridging that needs to be nerfed. Bridging is fun, being hotdropped is fun (after you get past the initial butt-hurt), and it keeps the game fluid. It's the damned titans lurking in POSes all the time that need to be nerfed. |

Typherian
Tri-gun C0NVICTED
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 20:00:00 -
[187] - Quote
So make it even easier for people to run away? Titan bridging is the only way to avoid the easymode intel tool of local. Nerfing bridges while leaving local as it is just makes it easier to avoid fights. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2135
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 20:25:00 -
[188] - Quote
Typherian wrote:So make it even easier for people to run away? Titan bridging is the only way to avoid the easymode intel tool of local. Nerfing bridges while leaving local as it is just makes it easier to avoid fights. Remove local. 
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
52
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 20:56:00 -
[189] - Quote
ooh what if titans always existed? that even logged off they were still there, but you couldnt board them or anything. (optionally a titan has a password given to it by the first boarder and can be changed by the pilot while boarded) thus you would be able to actually kill one. To compensate the dd is reduced to 10 minute interval and has target restrictions removed. Now it can stay in a pos feild but has to leave it to jump (if this is the case already then good) (also this behavior, persistence passwording should be applied to all capitals. Use a cap sma if you are worried of being killed) JBing is still allowed as now, but is basically a wh and thus you can jump to the titan. (if it is in a POS you get ejected for not knowing the pw, if you do know it though ) So that the fights are now possible both ways, the titan is in danger but can still be protected, and both sides are penalized by the lack of local knowledge. |

Escomboli
Hammer Holding Wrong Hole.
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
I agree wholeheartedly with the article except for the solution regarding moon-goo. Turning it into a "mining" based operation instead of passive would just lead to a certain alliance changing their bots from rat farming, to moon goo farming. It would probably make the problem 1000x worse.
There are a few solutions to this problem of blobbing because of no real need to grind for isk. First would be to disperse moon-goo throughout Eve instead of right smack dab in the middle of the space the Goons were given. Yes, they were given a large majority of their space/moons. They took very few of the tech moons by force by themselves.
The second solution comes in the form of a tax for the size of a corp/alliance. Concord needs to pay for their shinies as well. Tax the ever loving **** out of alliances once they get to a certain size. Remove gobs of the disposable, passive, excessive amounts of isk that have been gotten from ******** game mechanics (moon-go), and botting.
Titan bridging is a problem because of the amount of isk that certain alliances have. Start chipping away at the vast "isk pools" that they have, and start seeing them think twice before risking 100b titans for the lawls. |

Cyprus Black
No Flux Given
405
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:09:00 -
[191] - Quote
Wait, so hear me out.
What if we replaced all Titans with Monster Trucks? The CSM has seriously proposed it once before. Insert Witty Signature Here |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3198

|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:35:00 -
[192] - Quote
Forum Rules wrote:
4. Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.
7. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
Posts have been removed for breaching the above rules. Thread is also being moved from GD to F&I - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
437
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:46:00 -
[193] - Quote
Dam it man why is it every time a thread that NEEDS talked about is posted where it will get the most views and the most talking you have to move it to the trash bin of the forums.
Its like u think GD is for get likes threads and troll posts.
GD is for talking about all parts of eve and truly this thread was not a F&I thread it was made to talk about THIS http://evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/
But what ever.
A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |

M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies Nulli Secunda
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:58:00 -
[194] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I see our solution is still looking for a problem to solve. Is this a rephrase of: "I see titans are still looking for a role to fulfill"? They have a role now. This discussion is attempting to take away the only role they have left.
It is an unnecessary role that reduces the risk and effort involved in conducting 0.0 warfare. They weren't added to fulfill a role, they were added as a "Jesus Feature" back when CCP didn't fix things, it added more broken things.
Typherian wrote:So make it even easier for people to run away? Titan bridging is the only way to avoid the easymode intel tool of local. Nerfing bridges while leaving local as it is just makes it easier to avoid fights.
We are not going to turn this into a "remove 0.0 local" thread. It has been beated to death, and if you don't like local, go into a WH somewhere and get out of the 0.0/lowsec threads. Thank you.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2138
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 22:09:00 -
[195] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Dam it man why is it every time a thread that NEEDS talked about is posted where it will get the most views and the most talking you have to move it to the trash bin of the forums. Its like u think GD is for get likes threads and troll posts. GD is for talking about all parts of eve and truly this thread was not a F&I thread it was made to talk about THIS http://evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/But what ever. Opposition petitioning any thread that exposes the reality of abuse and broken mechanics to have said thread moved to a forum subsection where it will not been viewed... nonshocker.
They do this every time a thread is informing the general population on how things work. God forbid players actually know what the hell is going on. 
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Minty Moon
20
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 22:35:00 -
[196] - Quote
Lol and I had already created a thread discussing this issue as well in F&I 
Titan bridge changes
I imagine they'll get merged soon now.
But I tossed up discussion on pro removing it, but also to be fair options to balance it.
As the risk V reward for titan bridging is completely unbalanced.
Probably my favorite idea I popped up was to keep the bridge. Allow it not to be used within a POS shield or near, repurpose the titan a bit to change its solo purpose as being a tool for reducing the grind for SOV warfare and in order to use its bridge an alliance must acquire 2 titans One to "open" the bridge on each side. Rather than just literally catapulting forces safely from behind your castle walls ontop of the unsuspecting. It now turns into a literal vulnerable bridge that comes with risk for being able to instantly deploy your forces onto the battlefield (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |

Kalissis
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 23:39:00 -
[197] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I see our solution is still looking for a problem to solve.
Your solution is to close your eyes and not see how Eve is going down the drain. "We" in comparison are trying to solve issues that concern our beloved game to make sure we keep enyoing it for the years to come.
So again, stop spamming and contribute with reasonable ideas / discussion and open your blobbing eyes and see how titan bridging is ruining the game.
As for the topic to be moved here, there is no reason for that ISD TYPEus (or whatever his nick is) we got it, you dont like the idea, stop harassing us. |

Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
439
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:05:00 -
[198] - Quote
Kalissis wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I see our solution is still looking for a problem to solve. Your solution is to close your eyes and not see how Eve is going down the drain. "We" in comparison are trying to solve issues that concern our beloved game to make sure we keep enyoing it for the years to come. So again, stop spamming and contribute with reasonable ideas / discussion and open your blobbing eyes and see how titan bridging is ruining the game. As for the topic to be moved here, there is no reason for that ISD TYPEus (or whatever his nick is) we got it, you dont like the idea, stop harassing us. I had a 70 page thread in GD about local chat it was there for 2 weeks guess With isd removing troll post out of it and leaving it there guess witch isd moved that one as well. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |

Teebling
Flashpoint Industries Ethereal Dawn
65
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:45:00 -
[199] - Quote
Hey all, just wanted to apologise for those who'd expected better discussion from this thread. I hope this doesn't plunge the issue further into obscurity, I should have posted it to F&I to avoid the trolls. |

Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
477
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 01:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:EternalFlow wrote: We also tend to stage our fleets as close to the front line as possible so even manual travel isn't that far.
^ First thing we try to do is capture a Station System. Like say UMI-KK. For 6VDT we spent six days living out of POS, that was a pain.
*chuckles and thinks of his time in wormholes* zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |

Jassmin Joy
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 02:08:00 -
[201] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:What about:
- Titans can be tackled with a normal Warpscrambler
No, then a titan could be tackled by any tom **** or harry and that'd make another class of ship (hics) pointless. also is just in general a terrible, terrible idea.
NEONOVUS wrote:I approve of the plans of adding mass and capacitor limits to jump bridging along with requiring a gimping module. What would happen if the mod was removed and you had to use the pos variant?
Are you people stupid? you want to nerf the titan because of large power blocks "power projection" across eve, do you forget these alliances have multiple titans? with hundreds of thousands of cyno alts? adding a mass limit would literally change nothing, it'd just cause a couple of seconds delay, nothing more. mass limits would hurt the little guy. and the gimping module idea is rubbish too, and i'm not even going to bother telling you how bad an idea that is. |

Jassmin Joy
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 02:15:00 -
[202] - Quote
Any idea with mass adding mass limits or effecting how many ships can jump through a single titan is a terrible idea and wont get you the effect you hope for, if you want to nerf bridges the solution is to cause the titan to be put in harms way somehow, though i don't think having it jump on field is exactly a problem solver either, The "cant bridge in pos shields" is probably the most sensible idea i've seen so far.
But all that aside, why does it actually need nerfed? What possible role would the titan have afterwards? this is, yet again. another case of "i cant counter this ccp, so nerf it plox!"
And for anyone saying " but..but... we cant get a titan on grid!" http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15271645 Those guys baited a titan with a thanatos on a gate, and i've been part of a 2 man fleet where a titan would jump in and DD a lone carrier in a belt or at a safe. it happens, people just need to stop depending on ccp to nerf things when they can't spend two minutes solving the issue themselves. |

Midnight Pheonix
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 02:53:00 -
[203] - Quote
Requiring a target lock on the Titan/Blackops in order to bridge may be a simple solution to the POS bridging problem. |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
36
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 03:05:00 -
[204] - Quote
Mass limitations is not a solution. Larger alliances, the ones who blob the crap out of you now, will just bite the bullet and tack on a few players/alts to feed the titan fuel for more bridges needed. Haulers formed up right next ot the titan for inflight refueling as it were. Blob alliance instead of dropping 200 shipsa at once, just feeds 50 at a time (to pick 50 out of thin air).
In just a short time span what effect does this have? They still dropped 200 ships. Unless you are instapping each 50 hot drop shot....the tide is jsut rolling in. Only kill 10 of the first 50, poof you got the 40 survivors and the fresh 50. Kill ten more its now 80 survivors and the new 50 in the system next bridge.
And this is not even stretch on current ways to run the titan. Its done now. Expecting a meat grinder operation generally there is a titan in the staging system already with his fuel suppliers in place. His job is to keep on sending off the players who got podded in the meat grinder and woke up back at home/staging system. Reship. go see titan, and back to the front.
End result is this ain't hurting the large alliances. Adds some fuel costs to the op and some ships will have ot play gas pump jockey. They got the isk to burn and the personnel to field the ships. Smaller alliances may not however.
|

NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
52
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 03:24:00 -
[205] - Quote
Now please tell what is wrong with requiring a mod to use the jump bridge? Or just making the only jump bridges being possible from the pos mod. |

Minty Moon
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 04:09:00 -
[206] - Quote
Jassmin Joy wrote:
But all that aside, why does it actually need nerfed? What possible role would the titan have afterwards? this is, yet again. another case of "i cant counter this ccp, so nerf it plox!"
It needs to be nerfed or changed because of the risk v reward in using the current titan bridge system. I.E. there is no risk for these massive 30billion isk ships. Whose true power and current purpose comes from catapulting hundreds of fighters into a battlefield from the safety of a POS thats in itself in the safety deep inside its own territory.
Even Carriers must exit the POS shields to deploy their fighters, yet a titan can hide behind a pos shield outside the warzone even and launch a fleet of several hundred into a raging battle. The greatest risk from that bridge is purely the ship that's carrying the cyno
No one says titans cant be killed, but as everyone argues their only purpose is to bridge and if they can do that safely inside a POS how often does someone get a chance to kill one? Outside of managing to bait one, rarely are they used in actual combat or must suffer any risk at all to utilize their "only" purpose.
Only argument i've seen that theres nothing wrong with the titan bridge has been purely "stop complaining we like it" but i havent actually seen any present any legit argument that its a balanced module in the way its currently being used (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |

Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
440
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 08:04:00 -
[207] - Quote
I'm sorry but I guess I like having to use effort to get MY rewards, u can tell the true bittervets from the noobs who bought old blood accounts.
But having played in the time before titans, JBs, JFs, carriers. I can truly tell you, yea we the bittervets caused this problem we have now, we cryed to CCP and they gave us what we asked for and it was fun at first. But now its gotten out of hand and all forums of fast travel needs a round with the nurf bat.
I'm not the first and I'm not going to be the last to say it but I miss the old pre capital era eve. ( but never that old sov system). A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |

psycho freak
Snuff Box
27
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 08:39:00 -
[208] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I'm sorry but I guess I like having to use effort to get MY rewards, u can tell the true bittervets from the noobs who bought old blood accounts.
But having played in the time before titans, JBs, JFs, carriers. I can truly tell you, yea we the bittervets caused this problem we have now, we cryed to CCP and they gave us what we asked for and it was fun at first. But now its gotten out of hand and all forums of fast travel needs a round with the nurf bat.
I'm not the first and I'm not going to be the last to say it but I miss the old pre capital era eve. ( but never that old sov system).
why you think its goten out of hand? Becouse we can fast travel? Shut the hell up hotdrps are fun yea they are used alot more now than before thats becouse everyman and his dog has a titan nothing wrong in that its progresion if you cant handle it or cant get a tiran for your own group then go back to lvl4'S
And yes i rember the time before jump bridges/ super caps / j-frieghters and carriers and yes i hated warp to 0 and jumpbridges as they killed 0.0 trade lanes and choke points but eve is a progressive game allways advancing and changeing we cant go back to the way it was
simple solution to hotdrop is counter hot drop if you cant handle it move if you want somthing in eve and hold onto it you have to fight for it but latly all i see are whineing pansys crying for nurfs go play wow if you cant deal with the harshness of eve
man up or gtf |

Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
440
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:21:00 -
[209] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:I'm sorry but I guess I like having to use effort to get MY rewards, u can tell the true bittervets from the noobs who bought old blood accounts.
But having played in the time before titans, JBs, JFs, carriers. I can truly tell you, yea we the bittervets caused this problem we have now, we cryed to CCP and they gave us what we asked for and it was fun at first. But now its gotten out of hand and all forums of fast travel needs a round with the nurf bat.
I'm not the first and I'm not going to be the last to say it but I miss the old pre capital era eve. ( but never that old sov system). why you think its goten out of hand? Becouse we can fast travel? Shut the hell up hotdrps are fun yea they are used alot more now than before thats becouse everyman and his dog has a titan nothing wrong in that its progresion if you cant handle it or cant get a tiran for your own group then go back to lvl4'S And yes i rember the time before jump bridges/ super caps / j-frieghters and carriers and yes i hated warp to 0 and jumpbridges as they killed 0.0 trade lanes and choke points but eve is a progressive game allways advancing and changeing we cant go back to the way it was simple solution to hotdrop is counter hot drop if you cant handle it move if you want somthing in eve and hold onto it you have to fight for it but latly all i see are whineing pansys crying for nurfs go play wow if you cant deal with the harshness of eve man up or gtf Ahh man up or gtfo. So where where u In My thread for the changing local.
Let's see how much htfu or gtfo u can handle.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=164953
And back to the point at hand.
Did u even read the letter this forum post was about?
Clearly u forget there was MORE combat in eve pre fast travel.
U have pointed out the problem with out even knowing it the fact ever harry, **** & Jane HAS a titan now and has access to the easy fast travel is killing eve null PvP.
In stead of fighting there way to the system with the timer taking losses giving the defender time to whittle.down the blob and providing multiple fight of several jumps.
Now we have.
Forum on titan.
If force > enemy
Jump bridge blob.
If force < enemy
Blue ball. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |

Jassmin Joy
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 14:10:00 -
[210] - Quote
Minty Moon wrote:Jassmin Joy wrote:
But all that aside, why does it actually need nerfed? What possible role would the titan have afterwards? this is, yet again. another case of "i cant counter this ccp, so nerf it plox!"
No one says titans cant be killed, but as everyone argues their only purpose is to bridge and if they can do that safely inside a POS how often does someone get a chance to kill one? Outside of managing to bait one, rarely are they used in actual combat or must suffer any risk at all to utilize their "only" purpose.
They hardly get used Because they're so useless at everything else, You're literally taking the one thing a titan can do. and trying to nerf it to the ground. also titans don't cost "30billion isk" they cost triple that, and depend on actual titan type and fittings,Quadruple that.
i can slightly agree with the whole pos situation, but i don't think there's anything wrong with the titan, or bridging in itself, just the way eve has evolved. |
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