We already found a class 5 WH, were farming them in capitals and I assure you that with the new AI changes this is much more isk/hour efficient and personally i think its easier than a 10/10 ded plex since a triage archon outweights numerous logistics by its own. So basically were doing the same stuff as we need to do in 0.0 space exploration, the only difference that were making more money in less time. And this is WRONG.


HIGHer RISK + HARDer CONTENT should be = MORE ISK


since the AI update that is NOT TRUE.


read the capital letters together.

This would be awesome.


However - NPCs would need to have real CAP - would need to warp away to try and deny a kill - would need to have all the stats and mechanics of a normal ship.

Currently a PvE boatd would not fit Neuts - doesn't need a point - some EWar is irrelevant as it simply will not function against NPCs and some is pointless because there are so many NPCs, (NPC numbers- you have suggested will be reduced).

But the latest changes also take us further from PvP fitted Ships for PvE. We will now be looking at L4 BS's fitting medium guns to counter frigates - and other such things which would be hugely sub-optimal for PvP. (I'm no PvP expert - look at my kill board - but I still have a vague idea of what would be fitted to a PvP ship)

OK.

1) Some people like to grind - I did actually like the old PvE. I knew there would be thousands of badies for me to lay waste to - and I had strategies. On missions where enemies would warp in in waves - I'd need to pay more attention to my drones. Etc Etc. It was comfortable - and fun esspecially to multi-box. It wasn't without merit. If I liked it others will have too. Not to say it couldn't be improved - but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Why not keep these "Battle" missions - just balance them - make drones tougher??? Maybe - less usless - somehow - un-webbable.

2) If there are going to be missions, in the future, that are more like problem solving - high tactics - where you would radically change the fit of your ship from one mission to the next. . . Well why not call these "Adventure" missions for those who might like this style of content. I mean - you are going to have to build these new missions from scratch anyway. So why not add them as a new type of thing?

CCP, you still don't get it.

I understand the need for making missioning and ratting a bit more interesting and making it so you can't afk misson/plex/rat.

But these changes are still hruting the soloist PVPers out there.
You've crippled our game. I do not expect to be agressed by rats in a belt that I have not agrssed myself.

I want to solo PVP like I was able to before Retribution.

It's hurting a lot of peoples playstyle and as said already in this thread it creates more blobby PVP because you need a small gang to deal with the rats and the target.

Please please consider fixing Rat AI for target priority to the agresser.

Retribution has bought nothing to my game but a bunch of nerfs. I can and will adapt regading PVE but these changes have gone too far.

I actually wish I could rollback my cleint and play pre Retribution.
sucky patch, not a happy customer.

CCP, you still don't get it.

I understand the need for making missioning and ratting a bit more interesting and making it so you can't afk misson/plex/rat.

But these changes are still hruting the soloist PVPers out there.
You've crippled our game. I do not expect to be agressed by rats in a belt that I have not agrssed myself.

I want to solo PVP like I was able to before Retribution.

It's hurting a lot of peoples playstyle and as said already in this thread it creates more blobby PVP because you need a small gang to deal with the rats and the target.

Please please consider fixing Rat AI for target priority to the agresser.

Retribution has bought nothing to my game but a bunch of nerfs. I can and will adapt regading PVE but these changes have gone too far.

I actually wish I could rollback my cleint and play pre Retribution.
sucky patch, not a happy customer.

Now when the rats are being blasted to kingdom come and then someone warps into the site and attacks "their" enemy what do they do....

Do they cheer and wipe their brow praising the heavens (or whatever) that a rescuer has appeared...er no they target the new chap and help kill him and then resume being blasted apart by the orignal aggressors...well done CCP.

if youre tackled in belt by a erd and someone comes to help you, you wouldnt shoot the one coming to help. This is an answer to amurder hakomairos.

Ok you guys know what, I'm with you on this. Make the NPC dumb again please :)

Welcome to the party, glad to have you. Could you please elaborate on what problem you ran into even if it's a repeat and offer any advice you can about correction that doesn't involve a total rollback. (unless that's what you really want.)

sign me up for the total roll back, unless they do a total overhual on the missions to mesh with the new AI.

The only good thing about the new AI is it makes it a lot harder on mission ninja looters, watching them trying to steal your loot when every NPC in the mission changes target to them ..... priceless

Lol do people actually do this? Ninja looting in your mission?

Switching aggro to drones should only happen on new spawns of NPC's like it was before
constant drone loss severely cuts into the profit margin

And as for making PVE more like PVP NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

PVE is there to make LP and ISK period

if you want to make a new level of mission or new anomalies that will be harder fine by me

But stop blowing holes in my drones either that or give them rig slots so we can improve the tank on drones

I for one like the grind yes i would like new missions too but if people want to PVP they will PVP

if people want to grind they have level 1s though 4s missions

if people want a challenge with a group there are incursions and wormholes and level 5s or they can go to 0.0 and run complexes

QUIT trying to fix what is not broken , drones are a weapon system pure and simple , we can not target someones guns or missile launchers so why are Npc's targeting drones ????????

ROLL it back , then test, then implement way to often CCP acts like the US congress and passes something before thinking of the unintended consequences of that action

Mining is boring but i don't see you adding sensor damps to asteroids or putting gun platforms on the asteroids
reason , BECAUSE IT would be stupid as are these drone changes

you want to add to mission content here is an idea
1 how about some escort missions you have to protect the ship from the npc's until it can warp out
2 defense missions defend the star base from waves of npc attacker until reinforcements arrive
3 guard missions you have to safely escort a hauler through three to five dead space acceleration gates
and there is a rat spawn at random somewhere in it if the hauler dies the mission is a failure
4 a delivery mission that takes you to a random dead space drop off point , which again has a random spawn or two in it that attacks you for the cargo
5 gank the big ship like a NPC freighter but you got wave of ships coming in to stop you from succeeding
many other story ideas for missions to be had if you just think about it

Also my tactic was to run lvl 4 with two accounts, but is it possible now, when NPC's switch targets? Can one ship be the tank and other the damage dealer or this thing is messed up too?

No, you can't have a Tank and DPS role in missions, anomalies or complexes any more.
Where's other games offer the "tank" the skills needed to pull the aggression of the NPC's there is nothing like that in EVE.

You're best with two good tanks and average DPS so whoever takes agro they can tank long enough for another switch in aggression or enough NPCs to be killed to lower incoming DPS.



As for the changes, meh I have just given up hope now.
It seems CCP has this grand vision for the future of PVE but I don't see that happening for a long time yet. Could you imagine how many tears there would be if there was a patch to fix PVE and not POS, SOV and all the other flavour of the month complaint threads in GD?

PVE needs work, EVERYONE agrees on that. The reason I left EVE before and one of my biggest complains I have always had about CCP's development is that it seems in CCP's eyes CCP knows best.
I thought that this had changed with Crucible and they were starting to realise listening to what their player base wants is the way forward.

This is the groups of PVE players as I see it.

PVE Fun - Those that log into EVE purely to run PVE content for fun, they look for enjoyment and casual play without stress
PVE ISK - Those that want to be doing more PVP than PVE but need to fund their PVP with quick simple income.
PVE Challenge - Those looking for that on the edge of their seats gameplay without needing to PVP.

CCP seems to think that making everything come under "PVE Challenge" is what the PVE players want. I have time and time again seen "we want our players to have choices" and "choices matter" coming from members of CCP when they're defending changes they make to the game.
However it seems that when it comes to the content we have access too choice doesn't matter and we should all be playing the way they want.
I will again say this; If CCP want this harder PVE and closer to players AI/Combat then let's bring in a new type of mission/anomaly/complex, there is nothing wrong with tweaking the current systems but don't force PVP style PVE on players who obviously are not looking for PVP style gameplay.

/endrant

To be honest I tried the new NPC AI, because I have done lvl 4's long time ago. And it's awful. They ate all my drones in a few mins, and permajammed. So mission running was a boring **** in the old days, and now, it is same boring but more ****. Nice work CCP!

Also my tactic was to run lvl 4 with two accounts, but is it possible now, when NPC's switch targets? Can one ship be the tank and other the damage dealer or this thing is messed up too?

well to keep on topic , i noticed since today that even hob's aren't safe anymoer

just flying normal missions with them yesterday was fine but since today: the moment i attack 1 frig with drones the all aggro on drones!

I just want to point out from earlier in this thread and from personal observation it appears that the only drones we can use that have any hope of survival (and thus not being a net loss of money) are the Hobgoblin light drones. Even they are in danger if you aren't killing off frigs as fast as you can and get lucky. So....

10 Years living with the previous AI mechanics means that you grew accustomned to the way in which rats work.
You grow your skills to fly the ships to complete a certain task.
This growth in skills is to allow you to run higher end missions/plexes.
The change now forces you to rethink fittings and now the ability to do what once was possible in some respects is gone.

There was nothing wrong with AI for ten years.
If it was such a big deal why not make the changes earlier within the life of Eve.

It basically boils down to, for me personally, not having as much fun as I did pre Retribution.
Why would you want to take fun away from a game?

People accomplishing missions in low-security or null-security space should not be at a disadvantage when engaged by other players because they have ship fittings tailored to fight NPCs. Ideally, battling NPCs should teach players how PvP works, how to defend and be better prepared about it should they choose to move into dangerous areas.

10 Years living with the previous AI mechanics means that you grew accustomned to the way in which rats work.
You grow your skills to fly the ships to complete a certain task.
This growth in skills is to allow you to run higher end missions/plexes.
The change now forces you to rethink fittings and now the ability to do what once was possible in some respects is gone.

There was nothing wrong with AI for ten years.
If it was such a big deal why not make the changes earlier within the life of Eve.

It basically boils down to, for me personally, not having as much fun as I did pre Retribution.
Why would you want to take fun away from a game?

You lost me at "people running missions in null-security space," a statement about as clueless as CCP Omen explaining that he expected PVP Corps to let random neuts use their POCOs because, hey, they might make a few isk (at the risk of letting cyno ships run around free for the 5 seconds it takes the average Nullsec pilot to realize what a terribad idea that is).

No one missions in Nullsec, when you can go AFK mission in highsec for a MUCH higher risk/reward, or farm Faction Warfare stuff on a disposable alt for an even BIGGER risk/reward.

This is especially true given that the only missions in null are in NPC space, which piloting a ship in is pure suicide. Maybe, MAYBE, updating the PVE AI so that PVE, especially deep null PVE, is more akin to PVP will help, but unless you take a long hard look at the risk/reward of Missions in Null -- i.e., buff Null Missions, Nerf Highsec Missions, etc -- then it's a fool's errand.

You are treating symptoms. Try looking at the disease instead.