Hello folks,

We have been (silently) following several threads about NPC AI changes deployed in Retribution and we wanted to let you know of our stance on this.

NPCs target and kill my drones all the time in PvE after Retribution


• We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely than just bland launch drones and forget about they exist until all NPCs are dead. Having NPCs engage your drones if they are your primary source of damage is to be expected and we expect play styles to adapt in consequence.


• However, there is a fine balance to be reached here, and while we want more challenge in PvE, we don't want drones to be insta-killed without you having time to do anything to prevent it. The changes deployed during Retribution were too extreme, which is why we deployed a patch on December, 19th to alleviate this issue.


Quote:
NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.

Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.



NPCs tracking disruption is too strong since Retribution

This is another bug which should have been fixed on December, the 12th. If you still are having issue with Tracking Disruption NPCs please let us know by filing bug reports with the implied NPC names.


Quote:


Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.

We hope that helps a bit.

Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.

As a new player with low SP and had my heart set on using a drone boat for exploring I guess I'll save myself the trouble and not renew my two accounts.

Oh well :(

While I understand the drone system may need a little love, I don't think changing enemy AI toward them helped the matter.

It adds a layer of complexity that other ships don't have to worry about. A Mach doesn't need to worry about the new enemy AI suddenly destroying its turrets or a Tengu's missile launchers which is exactly what it's like when an elite frigate decides to change its aggro and pop your light drones.

I may be missing something here but I just don't see the logic about these changes. Ok you think PVE should be more like PVP, in that case you'd need to scrap the entire mission system and start over. Tell me when a single BS has survived against 10+ other BS with cruisers and frigates tackling you? Let PVE be PVE.

While I understand the drone system may need a little love, I don't think changing enemy AI toward them helped the matter.

It adds a layer of complexity that other ships don't have to worry about. A Mach doesn't need to worry about the new enemy AI suddenly destroying its turrets or a Tengu's missile launchers which is exactly what it's like when an elite frigate decides to change its aggro and pop your light drones.

I may be missing something here but I just don't see the logic about these changes. Ok you think PVE should be more like PVP, in that case you'd need to scrap the entire mission system and start over. Tell me when a single BS has survived against 10+ other BS with cruisers and frigates tackling you? Let PVE be PVE.

Honestly I can't even think of a highsec exploration pocket where aggro on drones matters in any way on a sentry ishtar.

:Because being able to hit is too mainstream:
http://imgur.com/a/Ce2iw#0

The drone change affects non drone boats more than it does drone boats, as drone boats fielding lights kill stuff faster, and have more drone hps, and any drone boat pilot with half a brain uses sentries to snipe frigates at range anyway.

I do PvE because it's a PvE.
If I want to do PvP I won't be looking for it on missions or anything else.

I can usualyl recal lbefore they die...But sometimes they just die in a second without even a chance of recalling.

Having NPCs engage your drones if they are your primary source of damage is to be expected and we expect play styles to adapt in consequence.

The supposed size bias is not working. Today I watched a Core Lord Admiral (battleship sized NPC) shoot at my Hammerheads continuously the entire time they were out. The stupid thing is, he was actually hitting them with ease as well, and I have Drone Nav IV + two DNCs on the fit. Apparently NPCs have magical guns that ignore sig radius and have infinite tracking. Cruiser sized rats were also happily blowing my Hobs out of the sky all through the same mission.

Hello folks,

We have been (silently) following several threads about NPC AI changes deployed in Retribution and we wanted to let you know of our stance on this.
...
NPCs tracking disruption is too strong since Retribution

This is another bug which should have been fixed on December, the 12th. If you still are having issue with Tracking Disruption NPCs please let us know by filing bug reports with the implied NPC names.

[/list]

We hope that helps a bit.

Dear CCP Ytterbium, no this doesn't help at all. I'm a dev and I work on large scale projects, this is really not how to handle a change like this.
You or someone else @ CCP made a change/fix to tracking disruption and AI across the board likely to refactor/simplify/improve the code, so far great! Standard practice in this case is to regress all the affected code and content, which clearly wasn't done. What I'm guessing happened instead was a quick smoke test on a few missions/plexes and people called it done. Now you are asking your users to file bugs for you.

Now the general feedback is:
1) On Sansha frigate and cruiser heavy content (whatever it is) there is too much TD.
2) TD has no stacking penalty so the player is crippled.
3) Either the UI doesn't always show that you are being TDed, or there is a bug that TD on the player is not deactivating.

I suggest you go and do what you should have done at the beginning. Regress the content and fix it. Not coming back after a month with a "it should have been fixed, if not file bugs for it".

Regards,
An almost angry customer

If you look at the background of many of the dev's, the lack of empathy displayed by the dev's re: missions is perfectly understandable..

And the solution is to peeve them off, even those that may be unbiased.

People in null doing sites are probably just as affected by TD, and the HM nerf (if they haven't refit to HAM already).

Suddenly, somehow the Gurista rats seem a lot easier now.
(and screenshot nicely shows how both optimal and falloff are crippled down by 90%)
Some non-drone boats are quite good at destroyin tacklers with their turrets/ect. Kiting Mach, Sleipnir, ect.
Heck, I even heard about a Raven pilot not bothering with drones anymore, just adding a bit more exp rad/velocity and one more TP.
Also, while your non-bonused drones hunt frigs, you can continue shooting a battleship without a notable drop in DPS, a Snake/Ishtar only makes battleships laugh while it's hobgoblins hunt a tackler.
THIS
And that is withOUT blinking!
Normally a human needs to blink every once in a while.
Plus, L4s are boring enough, that you might want to turn your head from the screen for a few seconds, and look at the GF/Wife/BF you just agroed by not paying attention.
Sure, paying attention to the game should be necessary, but accepting a mission shouldn't be requiring constant watching 5 small gray bars every second.

Heck, in other MMOs, I've played in solo and group situations while eating and having an eye on the TV, because I knew what will happen, or at least had a guess. Things sometimes went south, but usually not, and even then I had some time to react.
Here? Reaction time doesn't matter on a webbed drone.
There? it's not a biggie even if the whole thing blows in my face, rocks fall, everyone dies.

Did you also notice in the 2nd/3rd picture(the 1st kinda failed) thamy tracking also got a gigantic hit? it went from 0.004 to 0.0004

I live in null sec, and i started the topic :) I believe I am an example that null sec players are frustrated as well.

Adapt?... do you mean start flying ships with less bonus to drone damage and more bonus to guns, that is not adapting it's changing ship.

For the hell of it, I looked at the Relevation: 0,00287 tracking with Dual Giga Beam according to EFT?
You were tracking almost 3 times worse than a Dread with no tracking mod installed?
...

You have to also remember where most of the dev's come from: null sec. Soundwave = goons, Fozzie = PL, Screegs = goons, Falcon = Veto, Dolan = Test, to name just a few.

When do you think was the last time any of the above ran a mission for ISK grinding? Consider the views expressed by oh so many null sec players on these forums. Then ask yourself, "Why would any of the devs who ran in null sec have a different opinion that the typical null sec poster?"

If you look at the background of many of the dev's, the lack of empathy displayed by the dev's re: missions is perfectly understandable..

I wonder why everyone forgot about Dampers.
I mean you can't do Serpentis Blockade if you're not using Drone ship.
Even in a drone ship you still have problems.

Exactly my thoughts.
I do PvE because it's a PvE.
If I want to do PvP I won't be looking for it on missions or anything else.