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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
79
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:57:00 -
[541] - Quote
Hi All,
I've posted in this massive thread before - so you know I'd like drones to become viable again, (as a primary weapon), and for missions to be more fun solo, (against E War). This stuff needs fixed up so that it is good.
I wanted to make the point though - that LvL 4s are now more fun than ever before for fleets, (IMO). We've had massive fun recently doing some of the ~8500LP LvL 4s. We're using missiles almost exclusivly - the RF Typhoons have dropped the non-missile part of their armament for reppers, (Cruise Missiles - the other weapon systems kinda suck in comparison now), and we are operating spider tanks, all armour - and using lots of utility Mids. Even our CNR is now armour tanked - but the utility Mids make it a lot of fun. Oddly enough we are only now using medium drones with much painters and webifiers - and the medium drones are used to mop up NPC battleships. Constant aggro shifting makes multiplayer PvE a lot of fun.
BUT. Solo play is yuk. Esspecially vs EWar enemies. And I still have no idea what a Drone boat will do solo - or even in a fleet?
When this all gets fixed - it would be nice if the new co-operative PvE could remain as good as it is now. But even if things were to revert back - we might still play this new way. We don't actually fit counter-measures to the NPC E-War. It is pointless. But force of numbers alows us to simply aknowledge one of our number is down for a bit whilst we take out the enemy EWar. Solo - I just don't see how this can be fun.
We've not tried micro-jump drive yet. We haven't tried non-missiles with tracking links / tracking computers. We are thinking of trying the Armour CNR with remote ECCM and sensor links . . .etc. At the moment - we are using masses of CAP boosters, Painters and Webs. The E-WAR countermeasures will not help us deal with close in NPCs. So we don't want to sacrifice that to counter E-War when simply having force of numbers already counters E-War - but simple force of numbers makes killing little close n fast ships still hard to deal with, (if we want to use medium drones - which we all like - so we use webs and painters - and the painters help the cruise missiles too).
Cheers |
Signal11th
The Retirement Club
888
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:07:00 -
[542] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:Hi All,
I've posted in this massive thread before - so you know I'd like drones to become viable again, (as a primary weapon), and for missions to be more fun solo, (against E War). This stuff needs fixed up so that it is good.
I wanted to make the point though - that LvL 4s are now more fun than ever before for fleets, (IMO). We've had massive fun recently doing some of the ~8500LP LvL 4s. We're using missiles almost exclusivly - the RF Typhoons have dropped the non-missile part of their armament for reppers, (Cruise Missiles - the other weapon systems kinda suck in comparison now), and we are operating spider tanks, all armour - and using lots of utility Mids. Even our CNR is now armour tanked - but the utility Mids make it a lot of fun. Oddly enough we are only now using medium drones with much painters and webifiers - and the medium drones are used to mop up NPC battleships. Constant aggro shifting makes multiplayer PvE a lot of fun.
BUT. Solo play is yuk. Esspecially vs EWar enemies. And I still have no idea what a Drone boat will do solo - or even in a fleet?
When this all gets fixed - it would be nice if the new co-operative PvE could remain as good as it is now. But even if things were to revert back - we might still play this new way. We don't actually fit counter-measures to the NPC E-War. It is pointless. But force of numbers alows us to simply aknowledge one of our number is down for a bit whilst we take out the enemy EWar. Solo - I just don't see how this can be fun.
We've not tried micro-jump drive yet. We haven't tried non-missiles with tracking links / tracking computers. We are thinking of trying the Armour CNR with remote ECCM and sensor links . . .etc. At the moment - we are using masses of CAP boosters, Painters and Webs. The E-WAR countermeasures will not help us deal with close in NPCs. So we don't want to sacrifice that to counter E-War when simply having force of numbers already counters E-War - but simple force of numbers makes killing little close n fast ships still hard to deal with, (if we want to use medium drones - which we all like - so we use webs and painters - and the painters help the cruise missiles too).
Cheers
My god don't use the word solo in these forums you'll get nothing but crap,
It's an MMo they will cry to have fun you have to mingle they will say..Please if you vaule your sanity don;t ever say you can have fun in EVE "ON YOUR OWN" man the shivers I'm having already.
PVP I enjoy with a group, PVE, the last thing I want to do is PVE with other people. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
79
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:12:00 -
[543] - Quote
So I guess what I was saying is that NPC EWar is so OP that even if all the fleet was equipped with remote EWar counter measures - that would still only be enough to negate the ewar aplied against one of our fleet mates. Which is a waste of our Mids as they can be used for other stuff - and force of numbers would already negate NPC EWar anyway. A solo player wouldn't have enough Mids to counter EWar by themselves - (not sure about ECCM) - but tracking and dampening defo - and who cares about being painted.
How will they fix this? Diminishing returns on EWar applied - so that a single ship can counter the EWar of the NPCs they will fight??? sounds yuk - and would make countermeasures just whayyy too strong. . .i don't know.
Maybe a CAP Booster charge using Mid that acts as an electronic warfare countermeasure for a specific type of ewar? Crap idea - probably is - but. . ? Any thoughts,
At the moement - there doesn't sem much point to the countermeasures available. Please tell me I've missed something and that it's fixed already! But I don't think it is? |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
79
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:14:00 -
[544] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Claire Raynor wrote:Hi All,
I've poste I BLAH BLAH BLAH Cheers My god don't use the word solo in these forums you'll get nothing but crap, It's an MMo they will cry to have fun you have to mingle they will say..Please if you vaule your sanity don;t ever say you can have fun in EVE "ON YOUR OWN" man the shivers I'm having already. PVP I enjoy with a group, PVE, the last thing I want to do is PVE with other people.
Ha ha!! Nah - Solo is what you do when waiting for everyone to get ready for the roam in ten minutes - and an hour later you are still waiting!
Incursions are co-operative PvE too though
:) |
Conan edogawa
Confrerie de la Lumiere Confrerie de la Lumiere Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:40:00 -
[545] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:Signal11th wrote:Claire Raynor wrote:Hi All,
I've poste I BLAH BLAH BLAH Cheers My god don't use the word solo in these forums you'll get nothing but crap, It's an MMo they will cry to have fun you have to mingle they will say..Please if you vaule your sanity don;t ever say you can have fun in EVE "ON YOUR OWN" man the shivers I'm having already. PVP I enjoy with a group, PVE, the last thing I want to do is PVE with other people. Ha ha!! Nah - Solo is what you do when waiting for everyone to get ready for the roam in ten minutes - and an hour later you are still waiting! Incursions are co-operative PvE too though :)
This is so fu*** true except it's the same for every kind of activity you may want to start. "I'm here in 5 minutes" he said. "Just a few jump" he said. |
amurder Hakomairos
Fellowship Of Lost Souls Rebel Alliance of New Eden
20
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:21:00 -
[546] - Quote
If CCP had properly implemented this as a part of a full PvE refresh along with an update to the drone control interface the whole drone aggro problem could have been mitigated by introducing a new high slot module that is a long range remote repper that only works on drones. Instead we got this pile of fail that seems to have been done just so someone could check a box on their annual evaluation to say they completed a task. |
Bryla Jax
AeD Corp
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:00:00 -
[547] - Quote
amurder Hakomairos wrote:If CCP had properly implemented this as a part of a full PvE refresh along with an update to the drone control interface the whole drone aggro problem could have been mitigated by introducing a new high slot module that is a long range remote repper that only works on drones. Instead we got this pile of fail that seems to have been done just so someone could check a box on their annual evaluation to say they completed a task.
This.
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Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:02:00 -
[548] - Quote
amurder Hakomairos wrote:If CCP had properly implemented this as a part of a full PvE refresh along with an update to the drone control interface the whole drone aggro problem could have been mitigated by introducing a new high slot module that is a long range remote repper that only works on drones. Instead we got this pile of fail that seems to have been done just so someone could check a box on their annual evaluation to say they completed a task.
But i dont want to fill my highslots with some stupid drone rr module.. Just saying its bad idea.. Unless someone gives me one more highslot in my BS.. But even then i would have better use for that "extra" high slot.. Maybe make one hidden "drone" highslot in all ships what can only be used for drone RR.. Yea thats just as bad idea.. |
Mund Richard
327
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:10:00 -
[549] - Quote
Keko Khaan wrote:But i dont want to fill my highslots with some stupid drone rr module.. Just saying its bad idea.. Unless someone gives me one more highslot in my BS.. To have an option to do so wouldn't be bad.
But to make it semi-required because of how stuff work would be bad.
Flying a Domi because of the full rack of bonused guns gattling goodness (while shield tanking...). If I didn't care about the hardpoints, I would fly a Rattlesnake instead, that has two utility highs. >> "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Including NPC EWAR getting the stacking penalty? Would be awesome to have a cap on how far they can reduce my lock range (not 10km from 100 in a BS) or optimal+falloff with TD. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
125
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 01:04:00 -
[550] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Keko Khaan wrote:But i dont want to fill my highslots with some stupid drone rr module.. Just saying its bad idea.. Unless someone gives me one more highslot in my BS.. To have an option to do so wouldn't be bad. But to make it semi-required because of how stuff work would be bad. Flying a Domi because of the full rack of bonused guns gattling goodness (while shield tanking... ). If I didn't care about the hardpoints, I would fly a Rattlesnake instead, that has two utility highs.
its not necessary for a domi to RR its drones in L4 missions. I still haven't lost any post CCP fixing the fullstage aggro bugs.
Note that drone aggro is trivialised by (a) MJDs or (b) just bringing 750+ dps. ie I can drop sentries at the beacon and clear most pockets without baying the sentries, so long as I shoot the frigates first. Other than TD, e-war is trivialised by counter fitting with 2 appropriate modules, and quite frankly TD is close to trivialised by droneboats too.
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anishamora
Atelierele Grivita
17
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Posted - 2013.02.15 09:29:00 -
[551] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:CCP has historically been very iffy on drones, but IMO I cannot fault their current policy. They've added drone damage mods, T2 drone applied damage mods, and nerfed the historically no drawback missile fits.
Ishtar probably has one of the highest ranged damage fits for a cruiser, typically fires a good damage type (thermal) and has excellent protection against damps, jams and TD, so they have 2 drawbacks - 1 easy to lock down with probes and 2 - can be shot in space.
There is no way IMO CCP can keep the current relative performance of drones without the drone aggro being such as it is now, otherwise it would be viewed as thoroughly overpowered.
As an amusing aside, I setup in sansha space, and I dragged with me 30mil isk in drones, and 114mil isk in faction ammo. I imagine that there will be plenty of drones left when that ammo is gone.
The Isthar itself is just a side-effect, CCP shouldn't nerf a whole weapon system just because some drone boats are OP or some players were AFK-ing L4s or plexes. The fixes should be surgical not butcher-y. |
Mund Richard
327
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:45:00 -
[552] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Mund Richard wrote:Keko Khaan wrote:But i dont want to fill my highslots with some stupid drone rr module.. Just saying its bad idea.. Unless someone gives me one more highslot in my BS.. To have an option to do so wouldn't be bad. But to make it semi-required because of how stuff work would be bad. Flying a Domi because of the full rack of bonused guns gattling goodness (while shield tanking... ). If I didn't care about the hardpoints, I would fly a Rattlesnake instead, that has two utility highs. its not necessary for a domi to RR its drones in L4 missions. I still haven't lost any post CCP fixing the fullstage aggro bugs. Note that drone aggro is trivialised by (a) MJDs or (b) just bringing 750+ dps. ie I can drop sentries at the beacon and clear most pockets without baying the sentries, so long as I shoot the frigates first. Other than TD, e-war is trivialised by counter fitting with 2 appropriate modules, and quite frankly TD is close to trivialised by droneboats too. Had my drone shot at, but haven't lost any in L4s this year. Though my drone-using habits changed quite a bit. So agreed on RR not being outright necessary.
Also agreed on how enough dps means you don't have to bother with stuff that are hassle, and also leads to a better drone experience. Makes the hurdle a bit harder for new players, makes the Domi desirable over a Rattlesnake (for being able to snipe incoming frigs), and the second one ain't something I disapprove of.
E-War being trivialised by counter-fitting... Now on that I'm not so sure, NPC Damp is stronger than player SeBos, so when 4+ are on you, you are screwed anyways, scripting for range makes lock-times long, scripting for resolution when they are outside lock range is silly.
Moved to Gurista space to avoid most of the Damp, with the new skill jamming on a Navy Domi seems to be ok even with no ECCM. Do get hit sometimes, but not chained for over a minute, and if they fail to get me the first cycle (for which my chances seem fair), I can kill the non-BS ones easy, unlike with damp that's getting applied more often from the start (at least to my experience). >> "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Including NPC EWAR getting the stacking penalty? Would be awesome to have a cap on how far they can reduce my lock range (not 10km from 100 in a BS) or optimal+falloff with TD. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 11:46:00 -
[553] - Quote
anishamora wrote:
The Isthar itself is just a side-effect, CCP shouldn't nerf a whole weapon system just because some drone boats are OP or some players were AFK-ing L4s or plexes. The fixes should be surgical not butcher-y.
I remember being a drone boat player when there was
* no navy domi * no t2 omnis * no t2 drone link augs * no DDAs * only damage bonuser was rigs, and the rigs only affected sentries * the rigs have a cpu penalty which was awful for the ishtar, which has limited cpu.
as a direct result of the changes I can hit 800 dps with a ranged ishtar without even really thinking about the fit, it has 200k per unit cpu rigs, not 20mil per unit sentry rigs, my nice flexible 5x350mm armor dominix fit went from 930 dps to 990 dps with even better improvements midfield and towards my drone control limit, and I was able to completely eliminate faction from my domi fit - I used to have to use 2 faction hardeners to squeeze under the cpu limit.
this latest change came with the final improvement to DDAs to make them equivalent in boosting amount to other damage mods, and for a player with good skills, missions actually get done faster, and plexes vastly so with the ishtar.
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Juwi Kotch
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
5
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Posted - 2013.02.15 12:30:00 -
[554] - Quote
I had to raise my standings to a corporation from zero to 6.67 for zero tax. After 25 lvl4 security missions during the last week I had achieved that goal.
I used a MJD Rattlesnake as a sentry drone boat. Over all those missions I lost 2 Warden II and 1 Garde II, and all three of them were lost due to inexperience and stupidity. If I would have been more focused, I would have lost none. I had to recall drones to the bay because they were going into armor not very often, on average probably once a mission.
So drones are not rendered useless with this new AI, just the contrary. They are very effective. "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future." Sonmi-451 |
Mund Richard
327
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Posted - 2013.02.15 12:33:00 -
[555] - Quote
The MJD breaks things hilariously, but I like to fly around without one.
In some missions, rats spawn in "random" directions 50-120 km away, which can make for boring downtime.
Plus the it's a battleship-only module, doesn't help an Ishtar or the new Prophecy. >> "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Including NPC EWAR getting the stacking penalty? Would be awesome to have a cap on how far they can reduce my lock range (not 10km from 100 in a BS) or optimal+falloff with TD. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
40
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Posted - 2013.02.15 14:06:00 -
[556] - Quote
Juwi Kotch wrote: So drones are not rendered useless with this new AI, just the contrary. They are very effective.
Only true for sentry drones. My heavy drone pure DPS alt Gila is unfortunately pretty useless right now. |
Conan edogawa
Confrerie de la Lumiere Confrerie de la Lumiere Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.02.15 22:13:00 -
[557] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Juwi Kotch wrote: So drones are not rendered useless with this new AI, just the contrary. They are very effective.
Only true for sentry drones. My heavy drone pure DPS alt Gila is unfortunately pretty useless right now.
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/07/1360966354-droneboats.jpg |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
66
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Posted - 2013.02.15 22:18:00 -
[558] - Quote
testing on a dominix sentry inside forsaken hubs , sentries where getting agro all the time. Changed to TP less but still i got a sentry attacked on each spawn for the least 1 time. Ofc you dont lose something you just scoop and deploy again , but i dont think any other weapon system losing that much dps that many times as droneboats . Ride hard, live with passion-á |
Kandrew Dorak
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.02.16 09:23:00 -
[559] - Quote
I'm sure I'm repeating what lots of people have said. Every time I fly my Ishtar I hate the changes more and more. It's tedious as hell to deploy my drones, let them get a few shots off, and then pull them back when they get targeted. I can't kite damage at all anymore because as soon as I get too far from my drones they die before I can get back. At this point it's more tolerable and way more profitable to use a blaster boat and mindlessly chew through boring forsaken hubs. All this patch has done is to seriously nerf the enjoyment and profit of drone users leaving the tengu as the reigning kind of plex runners. PvP is enjoyable because I'm fighting players, not because I'm microing drones or whatever.
TL;DR I'm having less fun in Eve and my choices are more limited. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
40
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Posted - 2013.02.16 09:49:00 -
[560] - Quote
Kandrew Dorak wrote:I'm sure I'm repeating what lots of people have said. Every time I fly my Ishtar I hate the changes more and more. It's tedious as hell to deploy my drones, let them get a few shots off, and then pull them back when they get targeted. I can't kite damage at all anymore because as soon as I get too far from my drones they die before I can get back.
Yeah, that's the thing. Sentries are working fine - possible with a DPS los due to redeployment unless used in a MJD sniper fit. Ships that are not designed to be played as a sitting duck can't use sentries well, though.
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Bryla Jax
AeD Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.02.21 13:54:00 -
[561] - Quote
Any change to this great and funny feature on latest patch? |
L0rdF1end
Mainly AFK
66
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Posted - 2013.02.22 15:04:00 -
[562] - Quote
None that i've seen. Many many threads on this and still nothing from CCP.
Maybe we should burn Jita? :) |
Shadowschild
Black Lance Fidelas Constans
50
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Posted - 2013.02.22 17:59:00 -
[563] - Quote
I think the current NPC AI is still in it's infancy. I'd like an actual challenge from them. You know some logistical cruisers, a mix of dampening / ecm / target painting & alot more warp scrambling not just from frigates. |
Bedlin
Caldari Organizational Logistics Department
23
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Posted - 2013.02.22 21:30:00 -
[564] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:I think the current NPC AI is still in it's infancy. I'd like an actual challenge from them. You know some logistical cruisers, a mix of dampening / ecm / target painting & alot more warp scrambling not just from frigates.
*squints eyes* Not sure if trolling....
Right now they need to reduce the cost to build drones down to close to what missiles cost and give us the ability to load them into the drone bay from the cargo hold if they want them to get killed in these numbers to make it "more challenging or entertaining" for us.
Not that most care but I did go and cancel my account last month, still running out my time training, but there is a place there so you can tell them why you canceled.... felt good. I kinda hope they fix the drone homicide before my account time runs out. |
Orlacc
251
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Posted - 2013.02.22 22:16:00 -
[565] - Quote
Was a least 10 times as much whining when the new inventory came out. Did they change that? Keep necroing this thread ad nauseum. |
Agrias Hellion
Diligentia Sodalitas
4
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Posted - 2013.02.23 12:12:00 -
[566] - Quote
So basically people are saying the AI is not overkill because sentry drones are fine?
Please tell that to my drones I doubt it will cheer them up. I just lost another 6 drones, the ranges involved means you can't pull them back in time. Anything past 5km and they are dead before their shield is gone.
This is not fun, Tech 2 drones are not exactly the cheapest and it is predominantly the only way I use my ship. I doubt Sentries would have been much use in this pocket since you warp in and have 6 Guristas are you withing 10km.
This world collide segment will be the last mission to do, which leaves....not a lot else to do in Eve. So I guess my return to Eve will be cut short to one subscription month....again.
Absolutely unbelievable that CCP have kept this turd going without actually improving it, pretty much all the people I used to know are gone or sold their accounts. I just stubbornly refused to do so. I think I would rather roll a Panda and saw my ********* off with a spoon than give them any more money.
Who wants my stuff? |
Orlacc
255
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Posted - 2013.02.23 17:42:00 -
[567] - Quote
Agrias Hellion wrote:So basically people are saying the AI is not overkill because sentry drones are fine?
Please tell that to my drones I doubt it will cheer them up. I just lost another 6 drones, the ranges involved means you can't pull them back in time. Anything past 5km and they are dead before their shield is gone.
This is not fun, Tech 2 drones are not exactly the cheapest and it is predominantly the only way I use my ship. I doubt Sentries would have been much use in this pocket since you warp in and have 6 Guristas are you withing 10km.
This world collide segment will be the last mission to do, which leaves....not a lot else to do in Eve. So I guess my return to Eve will be cut short to one subscription month....again.
Absolutely unbelievable that CCP have kept this turd going without actually improving it, pretty much all the people I used to know are gone or sold their accounts. I just stubbornly refused to do so. I think I would rather roll a Panda and saw my ********* off with a spoon than give them any more money.
Who wants my stuff?
I will take it. I assume it is in high sec. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
47
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Posted - 2013.02.25 11:03:00 -
[568] - Quote
Agrias Hellion wrote:
Absolutely unbelievable that CCP have kept this turd going without actually improving it, pretty much all the people I used to know are gone or sold their accounts. I just stubbornly refused to do so. I think I would rather roll a Panda and saw my ********* off with a spoon than give them any more money.
You know what? People in Pandaland are making the exact same complaint about their friends all moving on.
I completely agree that the new AI need a lot of tweaking, mostly regarding mobile drones.
However, I'm rather in a game where people are leaving because it gets more complex, than in a game people are leaving because it gets dumbed down with every new patch. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1025
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Posted - 2013.02.25 17:32:00 -
[569] - Quote
Duke Atreus wrote:Thanks CCP Yttcerbium.
TBH NPC AI shouldn't have been implemented until you revamped the PVE system seeing how the EWAR was too rampart with the number of ships and how drone users got the short end of the stick but I am glad you know there are still issues and are working on them.
Obviously it seems it might be a while yet before we see changes which is understandable so how about you revert it till then *wink wink* :P
Take care.
This.
This is not a signature. |
Bryla Jax
AeD Corp
2
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Posted - 2013.02.26 12:06:00 -
[570] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Duke Atreus wrote:Thanks CCP Yttcerbium.
TBH NPC AI shouldn't have been implemented until you revamped the PVE system seeing how the EWAR was too rampart with the number of ships and how drone users got the short end of the stick but I am glad you know there are still issues and are working on them.
Obviously it seems it might be a while yet before we see changes which is understandable so how about you revert it till then *wink wink* :P
Take care. This.
Sadly, it's not gonna happen. Admit a mistake or a incomplete feature is a too hard choice for some unskilled developerss. |
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