The Dominix was one the last few useful Gallente ships. Other Gallente ships also relied on drones for part of their PvE strategy. Now that drones have been nerfed for PvE Gallente have major problems on both the PvP and PvE front.

Think outside the box.

Like my sentry dropping, super RR, rocket fitted Rattlesnake.

Mr Epeen

Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.

1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.

2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.

3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.

4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?

5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.

6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.

There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP

It takes only 2 clicks to deploy 5 drones of the same type. Just group them in your drone bay.
Despite of this, your message is great and makes sense.

I don't remember if this expansion fixed it, but it goes like this for me:

1st click - left-click to open "Drones in Bay" to see which group I want to launch.
2nd click - right-click on the group I want to open contextual menu.
3rd click - left-click to launch drones.
4th click - send drones to attack target, if already aggressed (can be done with a hotkey too).
5th click - left-click to open "Drones in Space" to see the hitpoints/shields of the drones.

That's 5 clicks. If you launch before you are aggressed, and drones are set to aggressive, it can come down to 4 clicks (step #4 is eliminated). But it is still 4-5x more clicks than it takes to fire all turrets/launchers.

Also, since most drone boats are Gallente, and most Gallente drone boats are hybrids + drones, you still have to click that turret thing. So, other ships without drones - 1 click. Gallente drone boat with hybrids + drones? 6 clicks! That is 600% more work! If anyone thinks this is balanced, I have 1x PLEX to trade for your 6xPLEX.

If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.

If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.

If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.

The part in bold. It needs fixing. No opinion on the rest.

Leave the Dominix out of this, PVP-wise. Mine is fine; drones haven't been nerfed. Your ISK faucet has.

I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...

The substitute away from doing it themselves in favor of, you guessed it:

Having CCP to it for them. It's like being AFK, but in terms of adapting.

Probably has something to do with the fact that the missions aren't designed for the smarter AI which results in full room pulls and all kinds of stupid. Now if the missions were redesigned like the sleeper sites things would be better.

I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...

I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...

I guess that is why lo sec is always looking to nerf hi sec.

The joke is old. Lo sec gets nerfed hi sec says deal with it. Hi sec gets nerfed lo sec says deal with it.

Poor CCP Guard probably has a honorary degree in child psychology from having to deal with the whiners on both sides.

Because null players bad at pve/eve and never learned to use drones, while more skilled hi-sec players constantly try to maximize their performance by utilizing every tool at their disposal. The problem is not adapting to change, it's the complete and absolute refusal of accepting any decrease in personal performance.

While any clueless noob can excel in null, blobing and camping gates, it takes a true maestro to shine in hi-sec. Any dumb child can fool himself into believing he is playing the piano, while only using the white keys, it's takes a lot more to understand importance of using both the black and white keys.

But you also have to up the rewards because its like fighting sleepers which reward much more.
But now, why have both exist?
It makes one of them pointless. (Missions or Sleeper pwning)

If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.

Well I guess then everyone will be flocking to wormholes, since clearly these are similar ways of making isk.

Numerous mass tests and dev blogs not good enough for ya?

There was quite a lot (30+ pages?) of customer feedback on the test server showing how disliked the idea was. Yet CCP did not allow this to influence their choice.

They need a better way to vet their ideas. Currently they make choices and ignore customer feedback until their revenues start going into the toilet. Then they issue a public apology and make changes. My plea is for them to find a better way than dealing with mistake afterwards! My plea is for them to figure out how to discover it's a mistake PRIOR to making it onto the live servers.

Read what people post - don't try to make up ways to try to make them look foolish. The goal here is to address a problem with the game, not to look for ways to act childish.

With the new AI drones are getting popped easily. There are several interrelated problems.

Missions are not W-Space.

Sleeper AI works OK in W-Space. Missions are not W-Space. Instead of a few sleeper missions can throw 30 or more low HP NPCs at the player. If missions were revamped to be a couple high HP NPCs, like sleepers, this would be less of a problem.

New AI is Alphaing drones.

Drones are getting instapopped soon after deployment. This includes sentry drones. Under the new AI everything from BC on down will go after sentries.

Missions are balanced for weak NPC EWAR and drones.

This is actually a number of interrelated problems. NPCs were originally designed to drop EWAR against the player. As a result they still use the old, un-nerfed, EWAR stats from several years ago. This is a particular problem with Damps and Tracking Disruptors. These are non-change based and can render a ship unable to fight. Further, tohe new AI has caused NPCs to orbit outside of weapons/lock range after EWARing. The normal counter to this, dropping drones, is now unavailable. The presence of a far greater number of EWAR capable ships in missions then in the equivalent W-Space encounters further exacerbates the problem.

Battleships canGÇÖt hit frigs.

Yeah most battleship fits canGÇÖt hit frigs when they get up close (or ever for missile setups). With the EWAR changes this makes the most useful setup for missioning a Tengu with the option to use FoF HMs. This change is directly affecting many newer PvPers who are training either Amarr or Minmater. These changes mean having to place additional SP into skills simply to carebear for isk to PvP with. Yeah, yeah, people should have good missile skills anyway. Not always the case, especially for people who are PvPing somewhere other than PC controlled 0.0.

Gallente Ships already had problems.

The Dominix was one the last few useful Gallente ships. Other Gallente ships also relied on drones for part of their PvE strategy. Now that drones have been nerfed for PvE Gallente have major problems on both the PvP and PvE front.

Where did you get the idea that sleeper sites dont have up to 30 rats?

Abloo-bloo

Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.

1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.

2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.

3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.

4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?

5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.

6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.

There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.

6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.

6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.

Yep. Click the name below the avatar and use "Hide posts"

You know, few years ago you could actually read nullbear's posts/trolls.
Now it's just tears and mindless babbling.

I am running things exactly the same as before and still haven't lost a drone, i think you guys are just trying to afk or something.

You forgot to tell us to "Adapt".

Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.

1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.

2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.

3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.

4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?

5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.

6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.

There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.

Because null players bad at pve/eve and never learned to use drones, while more skilled hi-sec players constantly try to maximize their performance by utilizing every tool at their disposal. The problem is not adapting to change, it's the complete and absolute refusal of accepting any decrease in personal performance.

While any clueless noob can excel in null, blobing and camping gates, it takes a true maestro to shine in hi-sec. Any dumb child can fool himself into believing he is playing the piano, while only using the white keys, it's takes a lot more to understand importance of using both the black and white keys.

If CCP decided that guns no longer was able to group or auto reload, and randomly would stop firing, forcing the player to constantly watch them to see of they were active, would you also think that was a good idea?

at times that how it feels to use drones.

Dude... you just win "dumbest post of the month"....and its just early december

According this post . Perfectly written. Drone UI and logic are terrible, no mater if you PvP or PvE.

People have reported good succes with fitting modules like Target painters, webs, remote reppers (fix your drones & get the aggro yourself!), NOS (get energy & aggro!)

I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...because nobody in 0.0 moans at all,ever, even with our unmentionables being roasted over a roaring fire, we never complain EVER , and thats a fact!!!

Oh god I'm crying.

Please please please come out to null someday.

Fixed that for you Baltec.

It's still accurate. We also got the AI upgrade in 0.0 NPCs and we adapted within minutes.

Yeah, read my signature.

Mission Level 2 Feedback:
# on patchday:
5-10 Hammerhead I Drones lost after 1 Mission (didn-¦t count how many times I warped out, to buy new drones
# yesterday:
fitted + used target painter I . Used it in addition to damadge deailing (hybrid turrets) to focus NPC aggro on me
1 Hammerhead damaged after 2 Missions.


Minior Issue which should be fixed:
Passive mode drones should return to the drone bay in case no other command has been given by the pilot.
From my point of view, "playing sitting duck" in space is a bit to stupid for an "intelligent" weapon system like a drone.

Yeah, read my signature.

We also got the AI upgrade in 0.0 NPCs and we adapted within minutes.

Bad signature they just stopped using drakes or tengus due to the heavy missile nerf

Too bad you don't have a Tengu.
It still does a very good damage and performs just the same as before, except the range.

The heavy missile nerf wasn't heavy. You would know that if you ever undock and check it yourself.

....by switching to only doing sites without frigates in them. That's not adapting, that's evading and not an option for mission runners.

Read what people post - don't try to make up ways to try to make them look foolish. The goal here is to address a problem with the game, not to look for ways to act childish.

Hardly intelligent.
If they were they would probably tell the pilot to get lost and then they would warp to station.

Drones are notoriously stupid.

You know what else is wrong with drones?
Drones can't be repaired inside the ship unless the ship is docked. It'd be really nice if we could use nanite repair paste on drones while in the hold to repair them

When those three sites a busy we dont just sit on the staion waiting our turn. The med and light drones in my mac do just fine in the other dosen sites with frigates.

1st click - left-click to open "Drones in Bay" to see which group I want to launch.
2nd click - right-click on the group I want to open contextual menu.
3rd click - left-click to launch drones.
4th click - send drones to attack target, if already aggressed (can be done with a hotkey too).
5th click - left-click to open "Drones in Space" to see the hitpoints/shields of the drones.

1st click - RMB, on the group
2nd click - LMB, launch drones
3rd key hit (yes, i'm using shortcuts) - ONLY if you want to force launched drones to attack certain target

I don't see the point of being bored of that and can't imagine other way to simplify these drone operations.
Mind if i ask you to explain your vision of simple-and-useful way to launch and use drones?

1st click - RMB, on the group
2nd click - LMB, launch drones
3rd key hit (yes, i'm using shortcuts) - ONLY if you want to force launched drones to attack certain target

I don't see the point of being bored of that and can't imagine other way to simplify these drone operations.
Mind if i ask you to explain your vision of simple-and-useful way to launch and use drones?

But even assuming everything you said is correct, and it takes just 2 clicks (ideally). Add to that one more click to fire turrets. That's a total of 3 clicks MINIMUM. Now, compare it to a ship without drones, and without split weapons. How many clicks to bring 100% of its DPS to bear? 1 click!

Erm... What happens if you're going to switch a target? Yes, you have to click (disable turrets) + click (choose a new target) + click (activate turrets). Ah, and you have to do a lot of clicks to swap your ammo type/force turrets to recharge and so on :)
Another little fact about drones: they not always attack. You can set them to guard your friend, right? Another clicks.
So?

i'm sorry but your new vision of how to interact with drones is a bit too complicated and ignores some facts.
And please, don't put everything you would like to say in one large heap. We didnt talk about "ah-i-cant-see-drones-hp". It's not about launch-and-control, it's about stats -- a very different story.

And yes, i agree with an idea of pre-expanded list of drones. But you have to do it only once. Why are you talking about that in weird way "it-happens-every-f**king-time"? :)

Are people seriously whining about something that takes 2-3 seconds of single didget clicking in a roundabout whine about how they can no longer launch drones and not pay attention to them?

The same people who are whining about the new npc AI are the same people who were moaning about ninja salvager's and the like.

The same people who are whining about the new npc AI are the same people who were moaning about ninja salvager's and the like. I personally don't think the new AI is that bad, the only problem I see is the clunky and outdated drone UI.

Bottom line, adapt or die