| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
142
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the new AI drones are getting popped easily. There are several interrelated problems.
Missions are not W-Space.
Sleeper AI works OK in W-Space. Missions are not W-Space. Instead of a few sleeper missions can throw 30 or more low HP NPCs at the player. If missions were revamped to be a couple high HP NPCs, like sleepers, this would be less of a problem.
New AI is Alphaing drones.
Drones are getting instapopped soon after deployment. This includes sentry drones. Under the new AI everything from BC on down will go after sentries.
Missions are balanced for weak NPC EWAR and drones.
This is actually a number of interrelated problems. NPCs were originally designed to drop EWAR against the player. As a result they still use the old, un-nerfed, EWAR stats from several years ago. This is a particular problem with Damps and Tracking Disruptors. These are non-change based and can render a ship unable to fight. Further, the new AI has caused NPCs to orbit outside of weapons/lock range after EWARing. The normal counter to this, dropping drones, is now unavailable. The presence of a far greater number of EWAR capable ships in missions then in the equivalent W-Space encounters further exacerbates the problem.
Battleships canGÇÖt hit frigs.
Yeah most battleship fits canGÇÖt hit frigs when they get up close (or ever for missile setups). With the EWAR changes this makes the most useful setup for missioning a Tengu with the option to use FoF HMs. This change is directly affecting many newer PvPers who are training either Amarr or Minmater. These changes mean having to place additional SP into skills simply to carebear for isk to PvP with. Yeah, yeah, people should have good missile skills anyway. Not always the case, especially for people who are PvPing somewhere other than PC controlled 0.0.
Gallente Ships already had problems.
The Dominix was one the last few useful Gallente ships. Other Gallente ships also relied on drones for part of their PvE strategy. Now that drones have been nerfed for PvE Gallente have major problems on both the PvP and PvE front.
|

TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
405
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: The Dominix was one the last few useful Gallente ships. Other Gallente ships also relied on drones for part of their PvE strategy. Now that drones have been nerfed for PvE Gallente have major problems on both the PvP and PvE front.
Leave the Dominix out of this, PVP-wise. Mine is fine; drones haven't been nerfed. Your ISK faucet has. "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1939
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Think outside the box.
Like my sentry dropping, super RR, rocket fitted Rattlesnake.
Mr Epeen  -ávOv |

Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
497
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.
1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.
2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.
3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.
4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?
5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.
6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.
7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.
There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
493
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Think outside the box. Like my sentry dropping, super RR, rocket fitted Rattlesnake. Mr Epeen 
Being somewhat able to adapt to a problem doesn't mean "there is not problem" lol.
I dual box a mach and rattlesnake to do complexes and it works fine, , mach + tengu for other things or mach/loki guardian for blood raider plexes. I haven't skipped a beat with the change, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
Since it's here, I'd suggest creating time between when npcs switch, light drones getting alpha'd by frigs in close range of my ship despite the fact that I was generating loads of threat from remote repping, target painting AND doing 1200 dps from my mach and rattlesnake is stupid.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
187
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Used drone ships in wormholes for years.
Never lost a drone to sleepers.
Throroughly enjoying watching these whine threads continue to pop up every hour.
Continuing to play exactly like I did before, because I'm not lazy. |

Rath Kelbore
Eviscerate.
286
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.
1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.
2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.
3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.
4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?
5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.
6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.
7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.
There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.
The part in bold. It needs fixing. No opinion on the rest.
I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |

Robertina Bering
Local resources exhausted
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP
It takes only 2 clicks to deploy 5 drones of the same type. Just group them in your drone bay. Beside of this fact, your message is great and makes sense in every its aspect.
|

Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1517
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
I do agree with the first point from the op and CCP are planning to change things in that same way, but I'm sure it can't happen soon enough for many. The Drake is a Lie |

Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
505
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Robertina Bering wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP It takes only 2 clicks to deploy 5 drones of the same type. Just group them in your drone bay. Despite of this, your message is great and makes sense.
I don't remember if this expansion fixed it, but it goes like this for me:
1st click - left-click to open "Drones in Bay" to see which group I want to launch. 2nd click - right-click on the group I want to open contextual menu. 3rd click - left-click to launch drones. 4th click - send drones to attack target, if already aggressed (can be done with a hotkey too). 5th click - left-click to open "Drones in Space" to see the hitpoints/shields of the drones.
That's 5 clicks. If you launch before you are aggressed, and drones are set to aggressive, it can come down to 4 clicks (step #4 is eliminated). But it is still 4-5x more clicks than it takes to fire all turrets/launchers.
Also, since most drone boats are Gallente, and most Gallente drone boats are hybrids + drones, you still have to click that turret thing. So, other ships without drones - 1 click. Gallente drone boat with hybrids + drones? 6 clicks! That is 600% more work! If anyone thinks this is balanced, I have 1x PLEX to trade for your 6xPLEX. |

Nevryn Takis
University of Caille Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh look another "summary" of the problem that completely ignore belt rats and the AI primarying mining drones .. I don't afk mine .. I do run 2 clients on the same screen .. I can't also instantly switch between them .. Alpharing a T1 drone is one thing .. taking down a T2 mining drone in under 10 secs is something else (an they used to be able to take 3 angle frigates for 60 secs)..
|

Utuk'ku
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Robertina Bering wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP It takes only 2 clicks to deploy 5 drones of the same type. Just group them in your drone bay. Despite of this, your message is great and makes sense. I don't remember if this expansion fixed it, but it goes like this for me: 1st click - left-click to open "Drones in Bay" to see which group I want to launch. 2nd click - right-click on the group I want to open contextual menu. 3rd click - left-click to launch drones. 4th click - send drones to attack target, if already aggressed (can be done with a hotkey too). 5th click - left-click to open "Drones in Space" to see the hitpoints/shields of the drones. That's 5 clicks. If you launch before you are aggressed, and drones are set to aggressive, it can come down to 4 clicks (step #4 is eliminated). But it is still 4-5x more clicks than it takes to fire all turrets/launchers. Also, since most drone boats are Gallente, and most Gallente drone boats are hybrids + drones, you still have to click that turret thing. So, other ships without drones - 1 click. Gallente drone boat with hybrids + drones? 6 clicks! That is 600% more work! If anyone thinks this is balanced, I have 1x PLEX to trade for your 6xPLEX.
CBA |

Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
113
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 20:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
497
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.
5 clicks are to much for a weapon system when all the rest take 1. CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
888
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 02:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.
Yes, tell the peons how computer games are only mouse clickings. They offer no more and no less. I'm not shitposting. |

dexington
Push button receive bacon
215
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.
If CCP decided that guns no longer was able to group or auto reload, and randomly would stop firing, forcing the player to constantly watch them to see of they were active, would you also think that was a good idea?
at times that how it feels to use drones. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
391
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.
1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.
2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.
3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.
4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?
5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.
6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.
7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.
There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old. The part in bold. It needs fixing. No opinion on the rest. Not sure if I'd call it a done deal, but those 2 things would make drone use so much better. |

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
243
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
TheBreadMuncher wrote:Jas Dor wrote: The Dominix was one the last few useful Gallente ships. Other Gallente ships also relied on drones for part of their PvE strategy. Now that drones have been nerfed for PvE Gallente have major problems on both the PvP and PvE front.
Leave the Dominix out of this, PVP-wise. Mine is fine; drones haven't been nerfed. Your ISK faucet has.
LMAO LOL
Done Level 4's lately?
ISK faucet
LOL
Only reason they ever made any ISK is because you can grind the hell out of them for 6 hrs a day. R.I.P. Vile Rat |

baltec1
Bat Country
3051
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1840
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... The substitute away from doing it themselves in favor of, you guessed it:
Having CCP to it for them. It's like being AFK, but in terms of adapting. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

ashley Eoner
64
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 03:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... The substitute away from doing it themselves in favor of, you guessed it: Having CCP to it for them. It's like being AFK, but in terms of adapting. Probably has something to do with the fact that the missions aren't designed for the smarter AI which results in full room pulls and all kinds of stupid. Now if the missions were redesigned like the sleeper sites things would be better. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1841
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... The substitute away from doing it themselves in favor of, you guessed it: Having CCP to it for them. It's like being AFK, but in terms of adapting. Probably has something to do with the fact that the missions aren't designed for the smarter AI which results in full room pulls and all kinds of stupid. Now if the missions were redesigned like the sleeper sites things would be better. It's time to BUFF L4 missions !! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... I guess that is why lo sec is always looking to nerf hi sec.
The joke is old. Lo sec gets nerfed hi sec says deal with it. Hi sec gets nerfed lo sec says deal with it.
Poor CCP Guard probably has a honorary degree in child psychology from having to deal with the whiners on both sides. |

dexington
Push button receive bacon
216
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...
Because null players bad at pve/eve and never learned to use drones, while more skilled hi-sec players constantly try to maximize their performance by utilizing every tool at their disposal. The problem is not adapting to change, it's the complete and absolute refusal of accepting any decrease in personal performance.
While any clueless noob can excel in null, blobing and camping gates, it takes a true maestro to shine in hi-sec. Any dumb child can fool himself into believing he is playing the piano, while only using the white keys, it's takes a lot more to understand importance of using both the black and white keys.
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |

Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
331
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... I guess that is why lo sec is always looking to nerf hi sec. The joke is old. Lo sec gets nerfed hi sec says deal with it. Hi sec gets nerfed lo sec says deal with it. Poor CCP Guard probably has a honorary degree in child psychology from having to deal with the whiners on both sides.
If CCP buffed null sec next week, nobody in high sec would care. If CCP Buff High Sec, the tears from null would fill a pool. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1841
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
dexington wrote:baltec1 wrote:I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes... Because null players bad at pve/eve and never learned to use drones, while more skilled hi-sec players constantly try to maximize their performance by utilizing every tool at their disposal. The problem is not adapting to change, it's the complete and absolute refusal of accepting any decrease in personal performance. While any clueless noob can excel in null, blobing and camping gates, it takes a true maestro to shine in hi-sec. Any dumb child can fool himself into believing he is playing the piano, while only using the white keys, it's takes a lot more to understand importance of using both the black and white keys. Haha. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 04:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
The problem is that missions were not designed for such AI, it became a nightmare to try to use drones. Sure, compare it to sleepers, but sleepers were designed to have this AI, their numbers and strength were tuned for that. And did I mention that the rewards for sleepers are much higher? And before you say anything, I barely run missions, just when I feel like killing stuff in my Megathron, and I never AFK with a Domi or something. But right now the EWAR is blocking my guns to dust because there are one gazillion ships doing it, and the drones are being destroyed in a milisecond, because they are alpha'd. Drop the numbers of ships in missions and up the HP of the ships. But you also have to up the rewards because its like fighting sleepers which reward much more. But now, why have both exist? It makes one of them pointless. (Missions or Sleeper pwning) Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1841
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 05:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:But you also have to up the rewards because its like fighting sleepers which reward much more. But now, why have both exist? It makes one of them pointless. (Missions or Sleeper pwning) Well I guess then everyone will be flocking to wormholes, since clearly these are similar ways of making isk.
... (I wouldn't bet on having delicious dualtanked ravens to gank in the wormhole next door to you, by the way). Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

TharOkha
0asis Group
167
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 05:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.
Dude... you just win "dumbest post of the month"....and its just early december 
According this post . Perfectly written. Drone UI and logic are terrible, no mater if you PvP or PvE. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
942
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 05:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Cat Troll wrote:But you also have to up the rewards because its like fighting sleepers which reward much more. But now, why have both exist? It makes one of them pointless. (Missions or Sleeper pwning) Well I guess then everyone will be flocking to wormholes, since clearly these are similar ways of making isk. Now that would be funny, all the hi-sec mission runners going "Whats that that just decloaked 30 km away? Whats that coming towards me? Oh so this is what the afterlife looks like"
 Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |