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HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2012.12.06 20:29:00 -
[91] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:I know this module was supposed to be passive from the beginning, and now with the safe logoff it really needs to happen. If you have the DC active, you basically have a 30-60 sec logoff because it has such a long cycle time.
Edit: I'll make a short for/against list here
For: - It's basically always on anyway - It's more or less impossible to neut off, and if that happens, it only cost 1 cap to reactivate - It's a hassle to turn it on all the time (depends on point of view I guess) - It up to doubles the safe log-off time in space - It was supposed to be passive to begin with (quote CCP Tuxford) - You don't have to undock to check EHP. loleftnoob
Against: - It gives a lot of resistance across the board - It's not such a hassle to turn it on (depends on point of view I guess) - Idiots can forget to switch it on = comedy
I aggree with OP but dont expect alot of support from the basement dwelling trolls that frequent these forums they just love to argue.
Having this item passive seems like a no brainer. |

HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:31:00 -
[92] - Quote
was going to say in before Tippia but I couldnt beat the queen of contrary. |

James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1425
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:33:00 -
[93] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:was going to say in before Tippia but I couldnt beat the queen of contrary. I don't always agree with Tippia but in no way does he/she qualify as a troll. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2206
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:33:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Tomb wrote:we changed the functionality of damage controls Anyone remember the exact specifics of what the previous version was?
It appears that multiple damage controls were being used and it was deemed over powered. Thus they decided to limit it to only allow one to be fit and were forced to make it an active module to achieve that goal. But in order to function as close as possible to a passive module they gave it the long cycle time and using 1 unit of capacitor.
Or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. Anyone have any previous stats and functionality? TUXFOOOOOOOOOORD!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
404
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Posted - 2012.12.06 20:34:00 -
[95] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo.
You don't need to turn it on every system, you only need to turn it on when you are going to get shot. You don't need to turn hardeners on every system either. An inactive dc can easily lose fights in these days of logi fights (where if a ship lives 5-10 secs he will tank) and if you are flying a frig for example its quite common for it to be neuted off..
I can see where you are coming from with the safe log out thing, i didn't know about that. Still if 30 secs is an issue and you have no timer just log off normally, all you are losing is ultra ultra super certainty and tbh that is boring and a stupid change anyway (when has eve ever been about ultra ultra super certainty).
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1874
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:36:00 -
[96] - Quote
I think Damage Controls should just be removed from the game entirely. They seem rather arbitrary. Like they were created as a filler item to entice people to use them instead of something else that has a real purpose in the low slot. EVE is not about PvP.-á EVE is about the SANDBOX! |

HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:39:00 -
[97] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:was going to say in before Tippia but I couldnt beat the queen of contrary. I don't always agree with Tippia but in no way does he/she qualify as a troll. Didnt say he/she was a troll I said contrary. If Tippia isint a women he/she should be. Just like my wife will argue a point just for the sake of arguing and always has to try and get the last word in. Tippia seems to have a good understanding of the game but will never admit to being wrong. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10593
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? I think that a 13% / 15% / 60% damage resistance is a pretty huge reward, yes.
Quote:It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. Only in the sense that it's a click that is often not needed, same as with all other active modules. Beyond that, it's a click that can mean the difference between life and death GÇö hardly unnecessary.
Emu Meo wrote:DC should quite obviously be a passive module. The test of whether a module should be passive or not is if there is any point in having the module switched off. There is a point in that it can be switched off: it makes the ship much weaker (especially when the ship least needs that to happen).
Quote:As for the argument that it is some kind of an elite skill to click a module on everytime,,, really? The only one making that argument is the OP. Apparently, the heroic effort required is nigh unbearable. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:43:00 -
[99] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Tomb wrote:we changed the functionality of damage controls Anyone remember the exact specifics of what the previous version was? It appears that multiple damage controls were being used and it was deemed over powered. Thus they decided to limit it to only allow one to be fit and were forced to make it an active module to achieve that goal. But in order to function as close as possible to a passive module they gave it the long cycle time and using 1 unit of capacitor. Or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. Anyone have any previous stats and functionality? TUXFOOOOOOOOOORD!
Wondering that myself since i have been playing since 2003 and can't remember it ever being different, but then maybe i just wasn't using them cos they were crap.
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Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.12.06 20:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Emu Meo wrote:DC should quite obviously be a passive module. The test of whether a module should be passive or not is if there is any point in having the module switched off. There is a point in that it can be switched off: it makes the ship much weaker (especially when the ship least needs that to happen). Quote:As for the argument that it is some kind of an elite skill to click a module on everytime,,, really? The only one making that argument is the OP. Apparently, the heroic effort required is nigh unbearable.
Is this a serious argument? If you want the ship to be weak then you shouldn't fit a damage control in the first place.... And the choice between having a weak ship and a strong ship seems like rather a silly choice the game is asking us to make. If you apply logic to the question then there is really little reason to have DC as an active module. But I guess you can come up with any argument for leaving it as such. But as others have said I think the actual module is a little badly implemented and would like to see it reworked someday.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5729
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:54:00 -
[101] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo.
Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management |

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not?
Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:59:00 -
[103] - Quote
Damage control was buffed in red moon rising, all its says is "Damage Control has been improved, the module now requires activation and gives resistance bonuses to all hit point layers." I guess that before it was a passive module that only effected structure resists and were pretty useless. Tuxford worried that people would stack the no stacking pen resists hence the single mod limit and the requirement for them to be active. |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5729
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:00:00 -
[104] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest.
But turning them on is obviously such a chore given the complaints in this thread so why not have them automatically turn on when they're needed? Clearly we need to reward the dumbs and/or AFK. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management |

Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:01:00 -
[105] - Quote
Add a new passive module with 25% hull resists, I guess. (I don't see the point when you have reinforced bulkheads, honestly, but vOv)
Make the damage control use a nontrivial amount of cap?
The OP has convinced me that the dcu is in fact too good for how little cap it costs. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest.
So lets increase damage control cycle time and thus cap use. Fixed without buffing cloaked ships, success.
|

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
Andski wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest. But turning them on is obviously such a chore given the complaints in this thread so why not have them automatically turn on when they're needed? Clearly we need to reward the dumbs and/or AFK.
Its not difficult, but it serves little purpose. Also it gets annoying if your doing multiple jumps and have to keep switching it on everytime. Try doing a 30 jump trip with an orca and see if switching a DC on x30 adds any additional fun to the journey. I think you'll find not. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2206
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:04:00 -
[108] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest. It's Andski. If you are expecting him to be anything more than a troll you are sadly mistaken.
One thing to keep in mind is nothing should be sacred from the balance gods. Even if a module, ship, game mechanic or whatever else you can think of seemed to be fine when it was introduced or even changed years ago; everything should be subject to balance if needed.
Although knowing the full history of something is helpful to understand the subject at hand.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10594
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:04:00 -
[109] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:Is this a serious argument? It's not an argument GÇö it's game mechanics. It is not about intention, but about effect: the difference a DC makes means there's a point to turning it on and point to trying to get it to turn off. It may not be easy, but it can be done and it makes a world of difference.
The fact that it's there as a mistake for the pilot to make (or for the enemy to induce) means that there is a point to its being an active module. The herculean task required to turn it on is also rewarded by the pretty astonishing benefits it brings with it (which would have to be removed or reduced if it were ever made passive).
Quote:But as others have said I think the actual module is a little badly implemented and would like to see it reworked someday. In what way?
Emu Meo wrote:Its not difficult, but it serves little purpose. Also it gets annoying if your doing multiple jumps and have to keep switching it on everytime. Good news: you don't have to switch it on every time. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:04:00 -
[110] - Quote
Zhade Lezte wrote:Add a new passive module with 25% hull resists, I guess. (I don't see the point when you have reinforced bulkheads, honestly, but vOv)
Make the damage control use a nontrivial amount of cap?
The OP has convinced me that the dcu is in fact too good for how little cap it costs.
This is what i am beginning to think too. Current dcu - stays as is with increased cap use. New dcu = passive with hull only buff.
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1427
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
I like my idea better. Current DCU stays as is with same cap use, new DCU is a fantasy in OP's mind. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:08:00 -
[112] - Quote
Zhade Lezte wrote:Add a new passive module with 25% hull resists, I guess. (I don't see the point when you have reinforced bulkheads, honestly, but vOv)
Make the damage control use a nontrivial amount of cap?
The OP has convinced me that the dcu is in fact too good for how little cap it costs.
Im thinking something along these lines. When DC was originally nerfed to just one and making it active, I believe stacking penalty didnt apply. Make the module passive and weaken it but allow the stacking penalty to apply. That would actually add a little more choice and make the decision on whether to fit it or not a little more interesting. I get the feeling a lot of these posters take the game very seriously and forgetting that in fact games are about having fun. So any element in the games design which is not adding to this is not good game design. |

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:11:00 -
[113] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Andski wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Do you really find it that much of a reward, having to activate this module so much? Or maybe you only stay in one system ever, and never jump? It's an extra click, and it's unnecessary. If a pilot forgets to activate it, he would have lost the fight none the less imo. Yes, let's make all hardeners, sensor boosters, tracking computers and ECCM passive. Why not? Hardeners and other such modules use quite a bit of capacitor and so there is a good reason to allow the pilot to choose to activate them or not. So a bit of a stupid suggestion there to be honest. So lets increase damage control cycle time and thus cap use. Fixed without buffing cloaked ships, success.
I would agree with this suggestion also. Either it should be one or the other, completely passive, or properly active. Where it is now is just a fail in the game design. |

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:18:00 -
[114] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Emu Meo wrote:Is this a serious argument? It's not an argument GÇö it's game mechanics. It is not about intention, but about effect: the difference a DC makes means there's a point to turning it on and point to trying to get it to turn off..
And so making the module properly active would aid these goals you are setting out above. Using a proper amount of cap and shorter cycle time would actually allow players in a meaningful way to switch off the DC. And deciding when to activate the DC would now matter as you wouldn't want to go into an engagement with half cap. So Im glad you agree. ;) |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10595
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote:And so making the module properly active would aid these goals you are setting out above. As luck would have it, it's already properly active GÇö no change needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
180
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Emu Meo wrote:And so making the module properly active would aid these goals you are setting out above. As luck would have it, it's already properly active GÇö no change needed. It's about as properly active as a passive module that draines 1 cap every 30 seconds is properly passive, lol. |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2051
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:27:00 -
[117] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Doddy wrote:Yeah but the dc being active adds only good things to the game. How so? Iidots can forget to switch it on = comedy It can get neuted off = more combat variation (a very rare occurence to be fair). The latter happens surprisingly often when small neuts are involved. A Cruor or Sentinel (or I guess now Dragoon) on your face will turn off your DC and it will hurt.
The best of both worlds on this change would be "active but cycle-less", like cloaks are. Still, it's not a super-critical change that ~needs to happen~. It's not that hard to stay safe until it turns off. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |

Emu Meo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2012.12.06 21:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Emu Meo wrote:And so making the module properly active would aid these goals you are setting out above. As luck would have it, it's already properly active GÇö no change needed.
Are you just trying to troll now or what? Adding a noticeable amount of cap use to the DC and giving it a small cycle time should make you happy and alleviate the problems of AFKing and not being able to nuet it off you were complaining about above?? I guess there is no pleasing some people. |

Vandango Audene
Posthuman Society
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:34:00 -
[119] - Quote
If you can not take the effort to push a simple key then you lazy as hell.
Yes the DCU is kind of annoying when you are trying to "Safe Logoff" but personally if you are THAT PARANOID you have to safe log off then you can wait 60 seconds so your **** can stay in 1 piece then being blown up
to clarify btw
When you safe log off this will happen
- A 30 Second Timer will show up, your ship will not move during this time.
- Once this timer reaches 0 , your client will disconnect.
- Your ship will THEN INITIATE EMERGENCY WARP (If anything was stopping you from warping you would not be able to safe log off)
- After your ship EXITS EMERGENCY WARP it will disappear immediately
When you log off normally
- Your Client disconnects Regardless what is happening in the game world ( Modules, PVP Timers , Warp scramblers)
- Your Ship will attempt to initiate emergency warp if anything stops it , it wont do anything for 15 minutes (Because somthings prolly warp scraming you.)
- After your ship exits emergency warp it will SIT IN SPACE FOR 30 SECONDS 1 MILLION KM FROM WHERE YOU LOGGED OFF IN A RANDOM DIRECTION, ANYTHING DURING THE 30 SECONDS MEANS YOU CAN BE PROBED THEN KILLED , ROBBED , RAPED and PILLAGED
- After 30 seconds have passed and someone hasnt probed you down And Attacked you your ship disspears from space =)
if you really cant be bothered to push your DCU Every time you jump a gate, then your prolly to lazy to cloak your ship every time you jump a gate in a viator with 2 billion isk worth of ****
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10595
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:It's about as properly active as a passive module that draines 1 cap every 30 seconds is properly passive, lol. Since those two are each other's opposites, nope.
Emu Meo wrote:Are you just trying to troll now or what? Nope. Why would I be?
Quote:Adding a noticeable amount of cap use to the DC and giving it a small cycle time should make you happy if and alleviate the problems of AFKing and not being able to nuet it off you were complaining about above? You're confusing me with someone else. I haven't complained about AFKing or about not being able to neut it off, so I have no idea what you're on about.
I just see no reason why it should be made passive, much less a reason that outweighs the problems with such a change. At the same time, I see no reason why it should be nerfed GÇö it's not like it's horribly overpowered in its current state or causing any real issues. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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