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Do assault ships need rebalancing?

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Alxea U-208 Bacon Fortress Gaming Syndicate 30	Posted - 2011.10.06 13:06:00 - [31] - Quote Spurty wrote: 4th bonus 20% speed increase per level to after burner Across all afs even noob ships have better slot layout Oh and make fitting MSE unique to this frigate class All others SSE at best This role is Supposed to be in harms way. That is it's role! Interceptors have speed and sig radius Pirate faction are supposed to snub their noses at typical roles, so leeway here is fine. I agree with this bonus.
Iohet Nolafew Star Frontiers BricK sQuAD. 7	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:12:00 - [32] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better. Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete AF's are too expensive for what they are already. 3x+ the cost of a ceptor(and much much more than a T1 frig) for a much smaller proportion of benefit in offense and defense. Balance could simply be halving the cost. I'd be happy enough with that
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 47	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:24:00 - [33] - Quote We fly AF's all the time with my crew. they're solid and great fun ships. They're not underpowered or weak. The main problem with AF's is they should be good "skirmish fighters" amongst the bigger ships in bigger battles. Meaning, that they can survive in large fleet battles as little "x-wings" moving around and being able to do some damage, or perform other action for effect in the middle of it all. Currently, they get webbed and die. Most people have proposed a Role Bonus to AB speed to get their speed up slightly higher in order to help them survive in such scenarios to overcome webbing and tracking. It won't be easy, but at least you're not a sitting target. NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI
Aineko Macx Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:29:00 - [34] - Quote Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution. This, and roflkets.
Cozmik R5 Dock 94 34	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:40:00 - [35] - Quote 4th bonus, Retribution fix and rocket fix are obvious. If you work at CCP and don't see this please get yourself fired (this includes the brass). The over-buffing of the Faction frigates sounded the death knell for Assault Frigs, and as a frig lover I hope and pray that the AF fix is done right, once and for all. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Holy One SniggWaffe 32	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:41:00 - [36] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS. This man speaks the truth.
Othran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 44	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:47:00 - [37] - Quote Aineko Macx wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution. This, and roflkets. Rockets don't need attention - they got a buff recently. As you obviously missed it then here you go : Rockets have been given a power up with a focus on making them more effective against frigate sized ships. They gain a bonus to explosion velocity and damage whilst getting a slightly reduced rate of fire. They work fine.
Tamiya Sarossa Hedion University Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:55:00 - [38] - Quote 25% AB speed bonus coupled with a couple individual rebalances will be more than sufficient. Many AF's are decent and the ship power progression goes t1 -> navy -> t2 -> pirate faction anyway. As it is there are already several AF's I would take over the dram or DD in a variety of situations.
Othran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:59:00 - [39] - Quote I know the speed bonus is popular but I still don't think its a good idea. FS - 125% bonus at L5? That would mean a Jag doing 2.6km/sec on an afterburner without speed mods fitted. Sorry but that's completely stupid - the main problem with the Dramiel (which is getting nerfed on speed) is that it can outrun most mwding cruisers on AB and you want to create another 8 ships that can do the same? Lunacy, complete lunacy.
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 31	Posted - 2011.10.06 15:02:00 - [40] - Quote I'd like to see an AB bonus on the Assault ships, yes. But of the T2 frigates it is the Electronic Attack Ships that really needs a look. They are the least flown ships in New Eden, for good reason: They dont have any viable defence. They cant speed/sig tank like interceptors. They cant buffer/active tank like assault frigates. They cant cloak/range tank like stealth bombers. And they can be ******* annoying if left alone, so they will always be primaried. Complete the picture with a pricetag above 20 mill and you have a recipie for a perfectly useless shipclass.
Takamori Maruyama Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 12	Posted - 2011.10.06 15:50:00 - [41] - Quote I'd like to see t1 frigates amarr empire, with the possibility of rocket fitting . As for the assault frigs, amarr empire could use more juice on the mid slot for retri and cap on both. Like the Vengeance, armor tank and get rocket bonuses. The inquisitor is a Light missile ship before you say "there is a option" The Codex Astartes guides us....someone poke and whisper something Oh wrong scenario...WHERE IS MY GIANT AQUARIUM?!
Trainwreck McGee Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2011.10.06 15:53:00 - [42] - Quote While i dont do lvl 4's often when i do i do it in an ishkur. CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 3	Posted - 2011.10.06 17:36:00 - [43] - Quote AB bonuses and so forth have been proven to be a bad choice, they make the "good" AFs awesome but they do nothing for the "poor" ones... The "fourth bonus" needs to be tailored to the needs of the ship and its role rather than across the board. So what is the role of an assault frigate? Is it's job to tackle? Well the Interceptors do a better job of that with their higher speed, greater agility and (in the case of the "tackle interceptors) tackle range bonus... So what about holding tackle when doing so requires a bit more resilience? The role of heavy tackler then? there would have to be some reason why a larger ship, perhaps a BC, would be impractical in that role - the most obvious is mobility of course, particularly since the reduction in web strength which means that ships like the 100MN Tengus are quite capable of outrunning most of the heavier tackle, at least where scrams are in use. Ships like the Minmatar recons and, on the more expensive side, the Kronos and Paladin and the Web bonused Pirate faction ships however can all work that role however, with multiple long range or 90% webs at their disposal but their application is very limited. The anti-Vaga Ashimu for example, and the prices of those aren't rising out of all control as would suggest they're in such demand as would justify adding the entire range of Assault Frigates to the applicable group... So if the role is to tackle then the niche would have to be where you have to get the first tackle on but an Interceptor would be popped before it could get there... or soon afterwards. But that's not the whole story. Many of the complaints about AFs is that cruisers do "the job" better and more cheaply so mobility isn't all we expect from them. So do we need to give them (all) cruiser level damage? is the role we want them to fill the OMGBBQ section of a frigate fleet? But might that make them uncounterable? if four AFs could kill a tanky, AML Drake without losses what could you bring to stop them? I would say that I think that damage and tank are the primary roles of an AF, now that means I don't think a second mid is vital for the Retribution. The Hawk is hideously broken by this measure though, and the Vengeance isn't much better.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 348	Posted - 2011.10.06 17:49:00 - [44] - Quote Trainwreck McGee wrote: While i dont do lvl 4's often when i do i do it in an ishkur. My thoughts exactly! While I wouldn't turn down a buff, I'm plenty happy with an Ishkur as it is. It is a versatile multi-role sexy little beast that comes in handy in a small to medium fleet. Even the Retribution can be a fun little ship if set up properly. I don't have much experience with the other races AFs so can't say for them. I go with a Worm for Caldari and have no Minnie characters. Mr Epeen If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet.
Spurty V0LTA VOLTA Corp 27	Posted - 2011.10.06 19:44:00 - [45] - Quote Their role is to assault. Not intercept Need bonuses to allow them to assault ships, this is why interceptors get bonus to tackling Stop muddying the water Read up on what assault means ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance 6	Posted - 2011.10.06 20:29:00 - [46] - Quote I don't feel strongly about whether or not AF need a buff but if they're going to significantly buff AF then there is absolutely NO reason to nerf the dramiel. The Jaguar and Wolf are both pretty awesome. The Ishkur certainly has its role. The others prolly less so, but if hybrids get buffed, then the Harpy and Enyo will prolly be ok (if not awesome.) The Vengeance is a brick. tl;dr Not a priority. Big potential for making things worse than they are.
Ruah Piskonit PIE Inc. 1	Posted - 2011.10.06 20:32:00 - [47] - Quote Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot. Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP. the Retri does not need a 2nd mid slot, its needs another damage bonus. seriously, do you even fly it? and I would argue that AFs are fine, but then again, I know there will be some resistance to that idea. So if we do (thanks to CCPs obviously failed 'democratic' approach - that means lowest standards) then as previously noted - a damage bonus.
Wot I Think State War Academy Caldari State 37	Posted - 2011.10.06 21:45:00 - [48] - Quote Othran wrote: Aineko Macx wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution. This, and roflkets. Rockets don't need attention - they got a buff recently. As you obviously missed it then here you go : Rockets have been given a power up with a focus on making them more effective against frigate sized ships. They gain a bonus to explosion velocity and damage whilst getting a slightly reduced rate of fire. They work fine. By "They work fine" you mean they STILL do less in-game damage than unbonused autocannons. They made them prettier in EFT. That didn't fix anything. AC Vengeance is still vastly superior to rocket vengeance with with Rocket Spec @ 4. The rocket buff was to paper only, they are still roflkets.
Russell Casey One Ton the dragons of eve 21	Posted - 2011.10.06 21:57:00 - [49] - Quote Medium ships in general have always had versatility as their strength from cruisers to HACs to even BCs. Frigates and Assault frigates on the other hand, are stuck as scouts and tackle. Biggest reason cruisers do the job better is because they have more HP, a higher tank, can dps against large/small targets equally well, and they're cheaper because they're T1. The only place AFs really beat cruisers is in the speed and locking department. Meanwhile they won't melt to drones (as fast anyway) as interceptors and T1 frigates. Of course if you're in a fleet fight and there's dozens of Warrior IIs on the field, that is no longer the case which is why AFs are mostly used in small gang warfare while cruisers take their role in larger fleet fights. Also, you can fit a cruiser for more situations than you can an Assault frigate.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 114	Posted - 2011.10.06 22:11:00 - [50] - Quote AF need a buff, and electronic attack frigs need a makeover, they are worthless atm.. retribution needs 1more mid slot.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 66	Posted - 2011.10.06 22:16:00 - [51] - Quote Ruah Piskonit wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot. Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP. the Retri does not need a 2nd mid slot, its needs another damage bonus. seriously, do you even fly it? and I would argue that AFs are fine, but then again, I know there will be some resistance to that idea. So if we do (thanks to CCPs obviously failed 'democratic' approach - that means lowest standards) then as previously noted - a damage bonus. 5th turret, fittings to accommodate 5th turret and another damage bonus for the retri. just because it's a frigate, doesn't mean it shouldn't be a gang only ship. Hell I always wanted to see the retri as a mobile turret platform [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mr LaboratoryRat Confederation of DuckTape Lovers 0	Posted - 2011.10.07 11:23:00 - [52] - Quote A littlebit, not so much as the electronic attack frigats, black op, hurricanes, and all gallente ships
Ruah Piskonit PIE Inc. 2	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:52:00 - [53] - Quote Grimpak wrote: Ruah Piskonit wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot. Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP. the Retri does not need a 2nd mid slot, its needs another damage bonus. seriously, do you even fly it? and I would argue that AFs are fine, but then again, I know there will be some resistance to that idea. So if we do (thanks to CCPs obviously failed 'democratic' approach - that means lowest standards) then as previously noted - a damage bonus. 5th turret, fittings to accommodate 5th turret and another damage bonus for the retri. just because it's a frigate, doesn't mean it shouldn't be a gang only ship. Hell I always wanted to see the retri as a mobile turret platform Grim, I know this topic has been brought up over and over again so I just wanted you to be a bit clear. The extra mid-slot idea is cobblers yah? To the rest of you, the magic number is 3. At 2 mids, you are still going to under-perform as a tackler in frig combat anyway. But, it does let you put a SB in there and. . . well you get the idea - the retri will not compete against other tackler type frigs, and it should not be forced into that cookie cutter approach. And what do you think will be lost, a low. Now you go and play with fittings for a bit and come back and tell me a lost low for a 2nd mid is desirable. Its not. So the mid slot request that keeps coming back is just B-S. It needs to do more damage and fulfill the ganker-tanker role more effectively - but only if there has to be a 4th bonus. TBH, AFs are, as a class of ships, very well balanced right now - I have no idea why people want to break that.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:57:00 - [54] - Quote First: Dramiel Also: of course assault frigs need a lot of love tbh Even the HAC Diemost (read: Huge Awesome wreC) need lovin
Tallian Saotome Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension 76	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:32:00 - [55] - Quote AFs are balanced except for one thing... they don't really have a role outside of solo/very small gang warfare, and being dps for frigate roams. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Cearain The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION 57	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:54:00 - [56] - Quote Sure every ship should have more than one midslot. I fly the ishkur but that is the only af I fly. Yet I think it is right up there with the dram and daredevil as the most powerfull frigates in the game. I will happilly fight any other frigate/destroyer in my ishkur except the kitey ships like the slicers. I agree afs tend to be too slow. I would be inclined to say give them all a bit of a speed boost but not too much where they displace the navy frigates (which tend to have less tank but are generally faster and, I think, more agile) Should they be able to go toe to toe with cruisers? I'm not sure, but if you say yes then an extra midslot for a cap booster would be the first step. I don't think just buffing the capacitor size and recharge will do it. Although I think that might be something to consider for some ships. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Iohet Nolafew Star Frontiers BricK sQuAD. 7	Posted - 2011.10.07 14:08:00 - [57] - Quote Mr LaboratoryRat wrote: A littlebit, not so much as the electronic attack frigats, black op, hurricanes, and all gallente ships Since when do hurricanes need love?
Shaalira D'arc Quantum Cats Syndicate 212	Posted - 2011.10.07 14:15:00 - [58] - Quote Iohet Nolafew wrote: Mr LaboratoryRat wrote: A littlebit, not so much as the electronic attack frigats, black op, hurricanes, and all gallente ships Since when do hurricanes need love? One of these things is not like the other things!
Cpt Fina The Tuskers 18	Posted - 2011.10.07 14:56:00 - [59] - Quote Assault frigates are a pretty damn common sight in lowsec. It's a tankier and gankier version of their T1 counterparts making them great for solo/small gang work. People asking how often they get flown should aslo ask how often they fly T1 frigates, EAFs and T1 Cruisers.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 69	Posted - 2011.10.07 14:58:00 - [60] - Quote Ruah Piskonit wrote: Grimpak wrote: Ruah Piskonit wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: 4 th bonus Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot. Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP. the Retri does not need a 2nd mid slot, its needs another damage bonus. seriously, do you even fly it? and I would argue that AFs are fine, but then again, I know there will be some resistance to that idea. So if we do (thanks to CCPs obviously failed 'democratic' approach - that means lowest standards) then as previously noted - a damage bonus. 5th turret, fittings to accommodate 5th turret and another damage bonus for the retri. just because it's a frigate, doesn't mean it shouldn't be a gang only ship. Hell I always wanted to see the retri as a mobile turret platform Grim, I know this topic has been brought up over and over again so I just wanted you to be a bit clear. The extra mid-slot idea is cobblers yah? To the rest of you, the magic number is 3. At 2 mids, you are still going to under-perform as a tackler in frig combat anyway. But, it does let you put a SB in there and. . . well you get the idea - the retri will not compete against other tackler type frigs, and it should not be forced into that cookie cutter approach. And what do you think will be lost, a low. Now you go and play with fittings for a bit and come back and tell me a lost low for a 2nd mid is desirable. Its not. So the mid slot request that keeps coming back is just B-S. It needs to do more damage and fulfill the ganker-tanker role more effectively - but only if there has to be a 4th bonus. TBH, AFs are, as a class of ships, very well balanced right now - I have no idea why people want to break that. since the inception of the retri and discussion on how to improve the whole AF class I was always much more partial to the idea of turning the retri into a mobile turret platform. giving it a medslot would turn it into a laser enyo or a laser wolf, and that's too bland tbh. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

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