First of all, I welcome the new dev blog by CCP Zulu. It's great and the promises to actively fix a lot of broken game mechanics and content are superb, I really hope CCP keeps up on its promise to deliver.

There was one bullet point in the planned changes for the winter expansion that raised my eyebrows a little and it was the one about assault ships.

I was wondering: do they really need to be changed? Alright, they are not the most potent ships in EVE but in their own class (frigs) they are doing kind of okay. The key problem with them is most people are flying larger ships assault frigs cannot easily kill... and maybe they are a bit slow. But I still think they are kinda okay, especially when compared to other completely neglected classes like the ew frigs, tier 1 battlecruisers or black ops.

OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.

OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.

Ever run into a fleet composed of nothing but Ishkurs? It's loltastically nasty!

I think giving them a 4th bonus just because other ships have 4 bonuses is a silly argument. It should not be about the number of bonuses, it should be about the quality and usefulness of those.
Their imbalance vs faction frigs is a good point, but I think the error there on the faction frig side and they should be nerfed. At least the dramiel :)
I myself haven't used assault frigs a lot. I sometimes used them for faction spawn hunting in 0.0 and for grinding up standings at low level missions, and have taken the jag time to time for interceptor roles when I got bored of real interceptors. But you are right: I could have taken a drami or daredevil instead. At a higher price, of course.

I dont think assault frigates need a change.

Ever run into a fleet composed of nothing but Ishkurs? It's loltastically nasty!

4 th bonus

Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot.

Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP.

retribution needs another mid slot.... i want a decent assault frigate that uses lasers!

(hell, i'd like a decent FRIGATE that uses lasers, at the moment you have a choice of Slicer or nothing)

Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.

Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.

Well what are we talking about, re-balancing among each other (like a lot of t1 ships could use as well) or rebalancing compared to other ships like the Dramiel or Daredevil and other ships that can more or less fulfil the same role?

AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete

If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.

First of all, I welcome the new dev blog by CCP Zulu. It's great and the promises to actively fix a lot of broken game mechanics and content are superb, I really hope CCP keeps up on its promise to deliver.

There was one bullet point in the planned changes for the winter expansion that raised my eyebrows a little and it was the one about assault ships.

I was wondering: do they really need to be changed? Alright, they are not the most potent ships in EVE but in their own class (frigs) they are doing kind of okay. The key problem with them is most people are flying larger ships assault frigs cannot easily kill... and maybe they are a bit slow. But I still think they are kinda okay, especially when compared to other completely neglected classes like the ew frigs, tier 1 battlecruisers or black ops.

If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.

If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.

4th bonus 20% speed increase per level to after burner

Across all afs

even noob ships have better slot layout

Oh and make fitting MSE unique to this frigate class

All others SSE at best

This role is Supposed to be in harms way. That is it's role!

Interceptors have speed and sig radius

Pirate faction are supposed to snub their noses at typical roles, so leeway here is fine.

AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete

4 th bonus
Retribution.

Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.

This, and roflkets.

While i dont do lvl 4's often when i do i do it in an ishkur.

4 th bonus

Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot.

Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP.

Rockets don't need attention - they got a buff recently. As you obviously missed it then here you go :

Rockets have been given a power up with a focus on making them more effective against frigate sized ships. They gain a bonus to explosion velocity and damage whilst getting a slightly reduced rate of fire.

They work fine.

the Retri does not need a 2nd mid slot, its needs another damage bonus.

seriously, do you even fly it?

and I would argue that AFs are fine, but then again, I know there will be some resistance to that idea. So if we do (thanks to CCPs obviously failed 'democratic' approach - that means lowest standards) then as previously noted - a damage bonus.

5th turret, fittings to accommodate 5th turret and another damage bonus for the retri.


just because it's a frigate, doesn't mean it shouldn't be a gang only ship. Hell I always wanted to see the retri as a mobile turret platform

A littlebit, not so much as the electronic attack frigats, black op, hurricanes, and all gallente ships

Since when do hurricanes need love?

Grim, I know this topic has been brought up over and over again so I just wanted you to be a bit clear. The extra mid-slot idea is cobblers yah?

To the rest of you, the magic number is 3. At 2 mids, you are still going to under-perform as a tackler in frig combat anyway. But, it does let you put a SB in there and. . . well you get the idea - the retri will not compete against other tackler type frigs, and it should not be forced into that cookie cutter approach. And what do you think will be lost, a low. Now you go and play with fittings for a bit and come back and tell me a lost low for a 2nd mid is desirable. Its not.

So the mid slot request that keeps coming back is just B-S. It needs to do more damage and fulfill the ganker-tanker role more effectively - but only if there has to be a 4th bonus. TBH, AFs are, as a class of ships, very well balanced right now - I have no idea why people want to break that.

NO ship should have just one med slot.

Sure every ship should have more than one midslot.

I fly the ishkur but that is the only af I fly. Yet I think it is right up there with the dram and daredevil as the most powerfull frigates in the game. I will happilly fight any other frigate/destroyer in my ishkur except the kitey ships like the slicers.

Yeah, it sucks only having one midslot on your ship, but my EFT warrioring ability tells me that you can tank the hell out of a Retribution and have some decent DPS. It all balances out in the end. Find a friend to warp scramble dudes for you in an interceptor.

QED

The retri does not need another slot either (slots are balanced - which means adding a slot would add one across all the races) - I believe the balance is going to be 'bonus' because the whole argument for the AF buff has been that it has 3 rather then 4 bonus'. So add a damage bonus for the retri.

the retirbution in its current state is worthless. oh look im doing awsom damage, oh look he warped off cos i dont have a 2nd mid slot to fit a point to a PVP ship.. a ship without a point is like sex without the good bit

since the inception of the retri and discussion on how to improve the whole AF class I was always much more partial to the idea of turning the retri into a mobile turret platform.


giving it a medslot would turn it into a laser enyo or a laser wolf, and that's too bland tbh.

the retirbution in its current state is worthless. oh look im doing awsom damage, oh look he warped off cos i dont have a 2nd mid slot to fit a point to a PVP ship.. a ship without a point is like sex without the good bit

the retirbution in its current state is worthless. oh look im doing awsom damage, oh look he warped off cos i dont have a 2nd mid slot to fit a point to a PVP ship.. a ship without a point is like sex without the good bit

If it is a broken shipclass the why do I see them so often in low-sec? Sure, some specific AF hulls might need tweaks but as a shipclass they do work and are being used.

I'm not convinced that AF's are all that broken, last I heard they still see use in FW a fair bit where the gangs are smaller and the plxes force people into flying frigate hulls.

...

Given how many people responding to this thread seem to think that AF's don't really need boosting, it'll be interesting to see what CCP come up with.

A ship class doesn't need to be totally broken in order for it to get a balance pass. Just because it works fine in one scenario (lowsec, or faction warfare which is frigate heavy) doesn't mean that we should totally skip over it and do something else. Although I do agree that EAFs deserve more attention because they ARE broken, assault frigates need a little love too, and balancing them is much simpler.

I also think there are valid concerns that myself and others have brought up regarding assault frigates that could use addressing.

Just because it works fine in one scenario (lowsec, or faction warfare which is frigate heavy) doesn't mean that we should totally skip over it and do something else. Although I do agree that EAFs deserve more attention because they ARE broken, assault frigates need a little love too, and balancing them is much simpler.

retribution needs another mid slot.... i want a decent assault frigate that uses lasers!

(hell, i'd like a decent FRIGATE that uses lasers, at the moment you have a choice of Slicer or nothing)

Some AF are simple to fix. Change the Wolf from a 5-2-4 slot layout to a 5-3-3. Give both it and the Jaguar a tracking bonus. Minmatar is done.

Give the Enyo a similar 5-3-3 slot layout and another damage bonus. Make the retribution have a 5-2-4 slot layout and armor bonuses on top of it's T2 resists. Give the harpy a tracking bonus.

The Hawk, Vengeance, and Ishkur are more difficult and so I won't comment on them.

Some AF are simple to fix. Change the Wolf from a 5-2-4 slot layout to a 5-3-3. Give both it and the Jaguar a tracking bonus. Minmatar is done.

Give the Enyo a similar 5-3-3 slot layout and another damage bonus. Make the retribution have a 5-2-4 slot layout and armor bonuses on top of it's T2 resists. Give the harpy a tracking bonus.

The Hawk, Vengeance, and Ishkur are more difficult and so I won't comment on them.

Its apperent you don't fly AF's often.

Give jag and wolf a tracking bonus and you will disrupt everything.

Giving the enyo a third slot wont do ****, its still slow (there are ways around this)

Retribuition, your suggestion won't really help it, not really a pvp ship imo.

Harpy...wait for the hybrid buff and THEN make a suggestion.

Hawk...its fine
Venge...its fine
Ishkur...its ****.......wait...no...its fine

Another damage bonus for the Enyo? It already scratches 300dps while still packing an ok(ish) buffer. Enyo's main problem is mobility. What can you do with all the dps in the world if you're too slow to ever reach your target, especially with the sad range of blasters..

Wolf's layout is ok. A 5-3-3 layout would bring up the same problems the Stabber actually has.. a bit of everything, but nothing really good. What I never understood with the Minnie AFs is the distribution of the falloff and optimal bonus. Looking on the other stats of these two ships, optimal and falloff bonus really should be swapped..

Some AF are simple to fix. Change the Wolf from a 5-2-4 slot layout to a 5-3-3. Give both it and the Jaguar a tracking bonus. Minmatar is done.

Give the Enyo a similar 5-3-3 slot layout and another damage bonus. Make the retribution have a 5-2-4 slot layout and armor bonuses on top of it's T2 resists. Give the harpy a tracking bonus.

The Hawk, Vengeance, and Ishkur are more difficult and so I won't comment on them.

hawk vengence and ishkur are perfectly fine. the rocket buff made them non-****

in EFT the change fixed things but in actual gameplay unbonused autocannons are still vastly superior to rockets.


Also to the blanket statement of "AFs are fine".

when was the last time you saw a AF? =P

For the Retribution , since its a damn slowboat.
Don't need a mid, it wasn't meant for soloing, its a gang ship

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range per level
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Damage per level


Assault Ships Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Cap Use per level
5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level
5% bonus to Capacitor Recharge Rate per level


That would be a desirable Retribution.

*stuff*

Kestrel can reach 160 DPS, and that's more than a Jaguar, with no reliance on Falloff or Tracking, just straight up, if you are in rocket range you are taking damage.

*stuff*

OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.

I think that an interesting approach would be...

Make the AF 4th bonus be aimed at giving it extremely good range with weapons and tackling gear, thus negating the need to have a speed boost or put itself in range of many of the normal anti-frigate defense weapons (neuts, web).

Electronic welfare frigates could also be made more viable with larger range bonus's... putting themselves and AF;'s into the category of long range specialists.

Remove the penalty to ROF for destroyers (along with some per ship balancing) to make their main strength high DPS.

it's quite meh tbh.

here's a better one:


amarr frig bonus:

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Cap Use per level
5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Damage per level

AF bonus:
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range per level
5% bonus to small energy turret tracking


+ 1 turret, fittings to accomodate 5th turret, a bit of mass shaved off.


retri fixed.

You obviously haven't flown a laser ship if you think it needs tracking bonus. and tbh the 10% damage mod the other guy suggested is actually what the retri needs to solidify itself.

10% bonus and 5 turrets would make it a wee bit too strong tbh, but I wouldn't mind. I really just slapped the tracking bonus there because I couldn't think about any other bonus that wouldn't make a 5 turret retri unbalanced. (5 turrets + 50% bonus = 7.5 effective turrets).



edit: now that I think about it, yeah ok 10% dmg bonus.


it must get 5 turrets tho. I can't accept a retri having 4 turrets and a 5/1/5 config. if it has 1 medslot then it must have 5 turrets.

4 th bonus

Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot.

Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP.

Says stuff about Interdicting on AF's

good stuff

One tanky, one ganky.. I think that's the best idea I've heard about AFs in a long time, yet so simple. Nice one!