And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

Also throw in the fact there are barely enough grav sites as is.. I scanned down a dozen systems last night, low traveled ones too, and only one found and it was already being mined. (Full skilled, full setup scanning ship I should note)

That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them -¼-¼

That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them -¼-¼

I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them

I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them

Keep your filthy crap sites from polluting the scanning system or make it so, that such sites are ship scanner sites. That way every noob can find them and every explorer can filter them out immediately without having to waste time to scan them.

I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them

Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find.

Ditto, but there is a way around that. Just assume that during your first scan run (32AU) that the biggest scan hit you get (% wise) is going to be a useless wormhole and ignore it. Instead look for the tiniest ping you got and focus on that instead - that's going to be your grav site, or at least something worth checking out.

Grav Sites are about as rare as Radar which are worth 10-30mil Average.


There should be a separate probe.

Hurricanes are up to 54million ISK from 26 when I started playing, lets make it so a Plex is worth about 3 Cruiser hulls.

I could understand luck if it wasn't a constant occurrence. Then again I'm in highsec. Its just frustrating to deck out a scanning character and never find anything.



This.. 100x this.

You'd think, considering the rewards, that wormholes would be much harder to find??? I dunno.... maybe make them only possible to find with deep space scan probes or something, so they don't clutter the other stuff, and even then, make them hard to find with DSSPs so that the rewards in a wormhole are a little bit harder to acquire.

Posting in a stealth "Nerf highsec" thread...

And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

Posting in a stealth "Nerf highsec" thread...

1) More grav sites, and basic sites that contain all the ore types common to that region of space. The basic grav sites would have a big sig strength so as to be easy to find, like the test sites in the scanning tutorial.
2) A utility high slot on all barges and exhumers, along with the grid and CPU to make it useable. Can be used for a probe launcher or whatever.
3) A way to tell if a site is a grav, radar, mag, ladar, or wormhole long before you scan it down to the 25%-50% range.

Do all that and then, yes, mining could be moved to grav sites.

Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.

The Venture already has a utility high that can be used for probe launchers.... maybe CCP is already pre-empting a change, considering how they designed the Venture. What else would you use an extra high for on a mining ship? Except for a cloak, of course, if you want to hide in a low sec pipeline while there are people in local.

It wouldn't even be a nerf, it'd be moving stuff around to make the better rewards harder to acquire, or at least require more effort than - warp to belt > start mining > make isk.

I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them

I consider EVE mining to simply be a loose representation of reality. if you think of our own real life asteroid belt (which is what, basically space junk and leftovers from planetary formation (or put another way an unformed PLANET), even if the whole earth population had Hulks (it could happen, most humans are carebears :) ) it take a long long long time to "mine" it all, probably multiple millennia.

The respawning belts of EVE are just easier to code than a septillion ton of depletable space rock :) .

In Eve asteroid fields are actually just places where debris collects. Debris from exploded ships. Its a circle of life thing.

Ships explode.
The gas and dust wanders about the solar system, and collects at certain stable locations.
New asteroids form there.
We mine them and make more ships.
Cycle repeats.

So no one truly hates this plan of action?

So no one truly hates this plan of action?

We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.

Depends on if the mineral supply lessens. Ships are already expensive enough, I don't want to pay 80mil for a Cruiser fit.

Depends on if the mineral supply lessens. Ships are already expensive enough, I don't want to pay 80mil for a Cruiser fit.

In Eve asteroid fields are actually just places where debris collects. Debris from exploded ships. Its a circle of life thing.

Ships explode.
The gas and dust wanders about the solar system, and collects at certain stable locations.
New asteroids form there.
We mine them and make more ships.
Cycle repeats.

Jesus, now I'm agreeing with Remiel Pollard, is anyone else's feet getting cold or is it just my own personal hell that froze over?

look at what we have now an endless supply of barges sitting in belts never moving.

I assumed this thread would be full of LEAVE MY ROIDS ALONE and BUT MY BOTS.

[quote=Jenn aSide]Jesus, now I'm agreeing with Remiel Pollard, is anyone else's feet getting cold or is it just my own personal hell that froze over?

Indeed. I have alwys felt WH Exploration needs a different set of Probes or different mechanic to find them.

Throwing their finding into the same mix as Industrial and 'simple' Combat activities seems a bit simplistic on CCP's part. When I want minerals, decryptors, and the like, Exploration makes sense. WH activites, although they have those sites too, is just an entirely different animal requiring entirely different logistical issues than regular exploratioin sites.

I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.

thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba

thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba

Yes. Hide the Ice in Exploration Sites.

Would be one of the best things for anti-bot efforts ever.

I honestly find it really, really weird this has not been done.

And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

Wait.. didn't you quit EVE?

Nobody is amused. This also makes you look like a real Dweeb.

You must be bored to want to harrass players you can't see. Come harrass me to my RL face. Oh, you are too heavy to rise out of your chair to even begin to leave the house. And you'd have to trim the neckbeard to look not quite so like Sasquatch.

Wait.. didn't you quit EVE?

But yea, I agree, hiding anything in exploration sites would complicate things for bots across the board.

Nobody is amused. This also makes you look like a real Dweeb.

You must be bored to want to harrass players you can't see. Come harrass me to my RL face. Oh, you are too heavy to rise out of your chair to even begin to leave the house. And you'd have to trim the neckbeard to look not quite so like Sasquatch.

Now, back to the thread. Please continue.

Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late.

Nooooo. By far no.

Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late. Its ISK/Hour/m3 is amazing. Omber was actually high for a short time before Retribution but Isogen shortly crashed afterwards.

Kernite and Pyrox have both been better ISK/hour for WEEKS since the temporary Scordie Rush.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

Again, please go stink up some other thread.

Shuddup. Learn to cop a wisecrack.

Wow.. hostile much. I'm seriously asking. I recall a thread awhile ago where you were throwing a fit about quitting and hating the game post-Retribution. No need to come flailing at me over it. It was a serious inquisition.

Sheesh people.

It was irrelevant to the thread topic at hand, and DISTRACTING......by design.

BE a real man and ask me by Mail.

I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.

Be a real man and get over it maybe?

While I can certainly emphasize with the frustration of finding exactly the type of sites you are not looking for, hiding 'quality of life' improvements behind high skill requirements is not a design direction I'd like CCP to take.

You can already filter out what you don't want, and with good skills, it is fairly quick to narrow down and exclude the "unwanted" wormholes.

Competition for resources is one of the checks and balances for hi-sec. Making it easier to find a certain type of site is not going to have the effect many people would like. It will only increase competition for the most desired sites.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Deep Space probes could hit all wormholes in a system 100%.

No no, the suggestion is much deeper than that.

Effectively by filtering them, you can add a larger number of each type of site to the spawn table without oversaturation. The skill gap would mean new players wouldn't light up their scanners and BAM 30,000 registered sites, it'd mean they'd see a couple and have to check them out individually.

But for those who want to specifically hunt sites of one type or another, and potentially rare/valuable ones, we could focus our efforts into skills and equipment tailored for it.

Just think about it, we could literally have a prospecting profession for once, or a dedicated hacking/archeologist profession.

I do like this suggestion, actually. You could leave existing exploration mechanics AS IS, with "common sites" available to regular scan probes, but then have a few extra "hard to find" sites that can only be found with the specifically tailored equipment and skills - that tailoring would then also filter what you can find, so you'll only actually see grav sites if you're using grav gear. Then you could move the rarer ores to "harder to find" grav sites, and miners would need to skill up in "prospecting" or something and have to actually scan them down first, improving the rewards for the amount of work put in and reducing rewards for laziness, with the added bonus of making it harder for botters.

I assumed this thread would be full of LEAVE MY ROIDS ALONE and BUT MY BOTS.

Maybe the reason no one is complaining that it would break bots is because CCP is actually doing a good job controlling bots. No one left to complain.

How about ice fields are replaced by scannable comets. They could even be moved each day ( simulating a comet passing through the system). The nucleus would not be mineable, but it would produce fragments that drift away at 10-30 m/sec. You follow those and mine them. When a fragment mines out you warp back to the nucleus and pick up the next fragment. Each comet would last for a week or two until it got too close to the sun and was destroyed, or got to far from the sun and stopped producing fragments.

Maybe the reason no one is complaining that it would break bots is because CCP is actually doing a good job controlling bots. No one left to complain.

How about ice fields are replaced by scannable comets. They could even be moved each day ( simulating a comet passing through the system). The nucleus would not be mineable, but it would produce fragments that drift away at 10-30 m/sec. You follow those and mine them. When a fragment mines out you warp back to the nucleus and pick up the next fragment. Each comet would last for a week or two until it got too close to the sun and was destroyed, or got to far from the sun and stopped producing fragments.

No no, the suggestion is much deeper than that.

Yes, I get that what people are talking about sounds "deeper".

But apart from the change involving moving roids to sites, there's nothing new here. Nothing that the current mechanics don't already cover, just needless cluttering of exploration by adding redundant skills and items.

If you want to be Indiana Jones in space, it is as simple as checking Magno and Radar sites in your filters - and going out exploring.

Creating specific probes and skills for specific sites is not going to bring anything that the exploration mechanic doesn't already do. Rewards need to stay the same. CCP aren't going to plump WH/0.0 type sites in hi-sec for people with "specialized" skills.

All that will happen is that the top valued sites will be even easier to single out, and people will have an even harder time finding the sites they are complaining about not finding today, since competition increases right alongside convenience.

I am all for adding gameplay to the exploration system. It is one of the few mechanics in EVE that has "fun potential" if you're the type for it. I certainly support doing something with the gravimetric sites, since the current mineral situation makes them a lot less desirable, when you could just warp into the nearest belt and get the same reward.

"Because it used to suck" isn't a reason to not update things.

People used to **** in buckets, doesn't mean the toilet shouldn't have been invented.

why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

This idea again....

To keep things nicer for the newbies:

Anomalies for the low end rocks. Have them despawn an hour or so after someone enters them (if they're empty) and respawn elsewhere in the same system. Thus findable with the built in scanner. (the despawn is to keep them refreshed, rather than leaving a few small rocks in them) Of course, the problem would be someone leaving an alt in a anomaly which is mined out, to stop it respawning. So there'd need to be something to deal with that.

Signatures:
With a substantially increased number of them, move everything but scordite and veldspar into these (basic versions only. dense veld would be in a signature)

Exploration complaints.

I just want to point out to eveyone that thinks the current exploration system is "old and crude" or "outdated", you have all been very very spoiled over the last several years with the current existence of exploration which is f***ing awesome compared to what it used to be. I believe someone mentioned site specific probes. Well guess what, there used to be 5 different kinds of probes, multi probes, radar, ladar, mag, and grav, oh and it sucked big time. First of all you had to run a multi to see if there was anything in system at all to look for. You launched probed, ran scan and waited ..... for MINUTES, not seconds to get a result. This would then sling back a result and tell you if there was ping and if so what kind it was. So then you had to launch the specific probes and start looking for the ping. Each scan taking several minutes. You would spend up to an hour finding a single site, and if I recall probes were not recoverable, once they were launched they were toast. Do you know how much cargo room you need to carry that many probes around? Oh ya you could not just move the probes around on the solar map either like you can now. You actually had to warp to a location and drop a probe there, one at a time. So you had to make safe spots in mid warp to catch planets and try to build your own grid to scan. Suck!! Oh and you could not adjust the scan range of the probe, there were actually different size probes for each type with a specific AU range and deviation. You would take like 20 probes to find 1 site.

So no no no no, quit crying about the current exploration system, it rocks and is extremely updated and streamlined compared to what it was and I like having a single probe to find sites and I can find them in minutes now not hours.

Mining only in Grav Belts.

I'm okay with this idea provided they did it right, but what you are describing would require someone to be part of corporation to mine or have multiple accounts, which I am not okay with. I know this is an MMO and all, but when MMO's basically require people to be part of a group in order to do even the most mundane tasks such as mining, they will drive off a part of their new customers and existing customer base that just want to play the game alone with one or two of their RL friends. Anything that drives off potential new customers is bad for business, no matter how small the group dynamic may be.

Still a good one. I'm pretty sure I've posted it once or twice myself.


This is one of the better versions of this idea I've seen.

One of the disappointing things about scanning as things sit is the sheer volume of space you can go through and find *nothing*. The density of scannables should be greater than the density of no-scan astronomicals, and nothing was more disappointing for me than the discovery that scan sites are concentrated heavily around displayed astronomicals.

Exploring the already discovered just isn't as satisfying.

To keep things nicer for the newbies:

Anomalies for the low end rocks. Have them despawn an hour or so after someone enters them (if they're empty) and respawn elsewhere in the same system. Thus findable with the built in scanner. (the despawn is to keep them refreshed, rather than leaving a few small rocks in them) Of course, the problem would be someone leaving an alt in a anomaly which is mined out, to stop it respawning. So there'd need to be something to deal with that.

Signatures:
With a substantially increased number of them, move everything but scordite and veldspar into these (basic versions only. dense veld would be in a signature)

Cool rant, bro. Now, first of all, we're just hashing out ideas. There was really no need to get your panties in a twist over something that isn't actually happening. This is just a discussion of ideas. If you can think of problems with the ideas, then discuss them. "You all have it easy these days" is not a argument against making things more interesting.

Secondly, it's awesome that you've been in the game so long, but if that's the case, why don't you offer your experience to some constructive criticism instead of just tearing ideas down?

And finally, if the system is so much more streamlined then it used to be, then there is no reason why it can't or shouldn't be expanded with a few new features eventually.

Points taken;

I guess the sermon I preached was more a be careful what you wish for type of thing. I know it isn't currently happening, but I would very much like to warn off an old system and old ideas that were already used that already sucked, I guess that is what I was pointing out. Of course you could sell cryptic ship interfaces for 155 million a pop, so it wasn't all bad =)

I don't disagree that the system could be expanded. I would actually like to see them make the movement of probes on the solar map a little better, or better yet let you create scan pattern templates that you could save and then when you wanted to scan a system you simply pop out the probes, tell it which template you want to use, they warp off and run the scan. That would be cool.

I actually like Steve Ronukens idea in regard to scanning for belts and sigs for mining sites, looks like it could work.

What you said the old system was like was nothing like what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the current exploration mechanics remain AS IS, but also have additional specialised gear and skill requirements for focusing on specific sites. You would go out, for example, with grav skills and grav gear, launch your grav gear, and scan down a grav site in the same way you scan down a regular site now with regular gear. The benefits of this: 1) you get EXTRA sites available only to people that have trained for the specific site type, 2) it automatically filters out stuff that you're not specifically searching for (as it is, you have to still get at least a 25% hit on something before you know what it is), and 3) no more false positive for specialised training. No un-streamlining of the system, just expanding it with better rewards for more work put in in order to give the exploration career a bit of a buff and its dalliers a little more focus.

That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them -¼-¼

I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.

Make a guess of what kind of probes the old scanning system used!

Thats becuase EVE can read your mind and knows you dont want them.


I would love to see more Grav Sites in EvE. But really we do have them. Run lvl 3 missions and then go mine them out. You could also scan down the Mission runners and go scout thier mission to see if it has rocks. Mind you it wont be jaspet or hemorphite but just extra high-sec ore. Mostly its Veldspar but other ores do show up.

And your not likely to run into a random belt Ganker. Not that they bother me much.

I agree as well.

The can fix that at the same time as they do this change as it would go hand in hand.

You do realize that Scanning has been updated (2 or 3 years ago)?

Seriously - you can't just filter your results?

/pants-on-head.....

This Stealth-Pyerite-Buy-Order needs to take accessibility to the front line.

As is, new players leaving the starter systems can find that their 3 week old pilot can make or produce enough minerals to buy a cruiser every three hours.

Moving roids to scannable belts prevents that. Veld prices would drop stupidly low as it "requires no effort". Cutting another new batch of new players out of their only cycle.

The main power blocs in EVE have "years of history in EVE" knowing that it will take 286 million days for a Titan is accepted and expected (figure out of my ass for ebb and flow). New players don't want to wait 5 months to jump into their carefully selected Myrmidon they've just bought the BPO for.

The current belt system allows cruiser production early, learning scanning skills for 3 weeks -


If you wanted mid-minerals out of the belts they are, its Hedbergite etc... only available at Grav sites in hi-sec. Where is the Morphite coming from if people aren't farming Mercoxit?

You can get morphite easily from reprocessing modules looted on missions. I've got a huge cache of the stuff and I've never touched Merc

And as has been stated previously, I was scanning sites on my second day in the game. It cuts out no one. Just makes them work harder for the rewards.

Once again, another poster that doesn't read the thread before jumping to conclusions. I know you vets like to think you know everything, but if you read the thread, you would see that we've been over this.

Jumping again, your "special gears" sounds to be exatly what the old probes did, also it adds another layer to scanning, which
in itself have enough of micromanaging without adding another one.

Jumping again, your "special gears" sounds to be exatly what the old probes did, also it adds another layer to scanning, which
in itself have enough of micromanaging without adding another one.

Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find.

Let me reiterate: I scanned my first grav site on my second day. Noobs can find them too. And there is also an "ignore result" option on your scanning UI. Learn how to scan.

I.......... increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

........

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

And I spent like 2 weeks trying to scan down anything other than a wormhole.

YOU got lucky.
That doesn't maean that it's the same for everyone. YOU are one person out of a few hundred thousand; your experience doesn't constitute what can be expected as an overall experience.


And I disagree with the OP. There's no reason to move people from the general game world in such a way or extent.

I'd actually like to see more persistance in sites, and for sites to function more like low sec. Admittedly, most people would be against the later.

Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.

A friend of mine runs an entire group of bots in WoW, they do dungeons all day, and he can even run them in a batteground without anyone even realizing they're bots.

I don't understand people that think if you just change this one little thing, or make it a royal pain in the ass to do while actually playing, that suddenly botting will stop.

Not even anti-cheat software can stop bots.

ok i have only mined like 10 minutes in my whole eve career and it was the boringist thing ever. I think mining should be a mini game, like scanning.. where you have to direct your laser on a big asteroid and chip away at it, finding the hidden good bits of ore that can be worth a lot of isk or something. That would be great.

[quote=Toku Jiang][quote=Remiel Pollard]
..............
The benefits of this:
1) you get EXTRA sites available only to people that have trained for the specific site type
So you're saying that if i don't have the same skillset as the one who found the site, i can't probe his ship down?
Kinda breaks the sandbox, doesn't it?
.......................

Any one noticed how the post quality on the forums takes a dive around 3:15 on the east coast in the us?

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

Just so its clear I made my eve billions doing nothing but high low and null scanning, I know the average by heart but [non scanning combat sites > WHs > grav > combat sites > everything else > ladar] sites.

If u do any amount of scanning u will know that's the order from most likely to find to rarest in the system we have now.

It was two weeks on a new alt, having never done scanning before. I thought it would be a fun little diversion; something I could putz around in high sec and do.

I'm sure I would have got better results had I stuck with it and actually learned a little more.

But it was more to express that just because HE found one in 2 days doesn't mean a new player is going to do the same. Especally when they have little knowledge of most of the games to begin with.



I am wrong.
I found one site in time that was not a WH, can't remember what it was now. I do remember entering, and then immediiately fleeing for my life from the rats.
Just because you do manage to find a site, doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be able to do anything in it; especially after 2 days.

I also know you can go into low sec and hunt belt rats in under 5 days. That doesn't mean that someone new to the game can do it, it just means that it can be done when you actually know what you're doing.

New players generally don't know what they're doing.

I just dislike the "I can do it, so can you" arguements; especially where it concerns new player activety.

This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.

wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

Hurrr the instantly respawn. U have no clue how the scanning system works do you?

wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

I thought there was a finite number of sites each day, and that they respawned after downtime.

This is what I was told when I asked why I only ever found WH's while exploring.

I thought there was a finite number of sites each day, and that they respawned after downtime.

This is what I was told when I asked why I only ever found WH's while exploring.

That was the old system (I thought that too).

Apparently they changed it sometime in the past, where now they respawn randomly throughout the day instead of just after downtime.

Awesome. Was not aware of this. I always thought having sites respawn at downtime was plain stupid and unfair to people who lived on one half of the hemesphere.

Complication for access to more results isn't needless complication.

Adding site specific probes with higher sig strength, adds no value to the current system. It takes a well working dynamic system, and turns it into an inferior game mechanic gated by skill requirements.

Make static belts appear in systems based on the system sec status and probability of depletion.

This means grav sites only in 1.0 systems with an increasing chance of finding a static belt as you go lower in system sec status. Let 0.5 and down be the only places that have a full run of static belts plus the usual grav sites like we have currently.

Site specific probes would add significantly to the current system, especially if more grav sites are added to compensate for the removal of static belts.

The thing is, it kinda is in this situation.

Better skills already give players the ability to scan the harder sites more reliably, thereby giving them access to more results.

The beauty of the current mechanic, is that it's a sliding scale. With no hard skill gating. Lower skilled players are unlikely to find the low sig strength sites, leaving them to the higher skilled players. They are not excluded from them however and player skill, implants, probes/launchers used and ships setups, can be tweaked while the player trains his exploration skills.

This entire proposal is based around the notion that there are not enough sites available, if one was to agree with that, the solution would be to add more sites across the entire spectrum of high to low sig strength sites.

The solution is not to introduce arbitrary skill walls to one of the few systems in EVE that allow players to experience sliding progression, without the "You must be at least this high to enter this ship"-mechanic that plagues a lot of the game design in EVE.

Adding site specific probes with higher sig strength, adds no value to the current system. It takes a well working dynamic system, and turns it into an inferior game mechanic gated by skill requirements.

The question if there are enough sites available at any given time, is a completely different discussion, and can be resolved without touching the mechanics that make the current exploration system a small gem among the other EVE game mechanics.

What exactly is being added, apart from increasing some numerical value of available sites?

Yes, changes to static belts would add something to exploration, but that would be due to changes to the mining system, not because site specific probes were introduced to exploration.

The current exploration system already has increasing probe strength with higher skills, doing exactly what the proposed changes do, to non-grav sites, but without fixed hard caps through skill requirements.

Everything suggested, which isn't about changes to static belts, is born from the notion that players with LVL X skills should have access to an exclusive group of sites so they have a higher chance of finding a site when exploring.

Shuffling numbers around doesn't work in a sandbox were people gravitate towards the best return on investment. That is all these probes would do, might as well just increase the amount of signatures by 100%.

Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.

Someone probing for grav sites with grav-specific probes won't be uncovering all those mag, radar, ladar and combat sites. Increasing the supply of grav sites will simply cater to miners. There are no resources in grav sites that science-oriented explorers would be interested in.

wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

The idea is they respawn soon after being cleared, not at downtime. Also there will be alot of them, comparable to the number of belts in a solar system now.

I think normal fields should be the same way. When a roid pops, it respawns somewhere else.

So Ill still say:

If all mining vessels get an extra high slot for a probe launcher,
If grav sites are far more common than now,
If the basic ones (the ones with the same ore as we currently have in a solar system by solar system basis) are quite easy to scan (for new players),
If there is a way to sort site types that does not require scanning it down to 25% first (and is accessible to a new player),

Then maybe its worth dev time.

If low ores spawn in anomalies the first, third, and fourth points are covered. The second point *is* needed, however.

And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

Awesome. Was not aware of this. I always thought having sites respawn at downtime was plain stupid and unfair to people who lived on one half of the hemesphere.

here we go, another stu pid thread for hate on miners, why do so many keep trying to make it more and more difficult on an already tedious profession?

You mine and build your own sht then and see how fun mining is?

You spend the hours getting stuff for builds.

You miner haters need to take your meds and stop obsessing about others in game, you are sick minded.

While were at it lets make it so stations and jump gates and planets and the sun need to be scanned down too, why not.

While were at it lets make it so stations and jump gates and planets and the sun need to be scanned down too, why not.

After all, wouldn't it be nice if there were less bots drilling the ores that you needed for that ship you want to build? How much LESS tedious would it be if the minerals you needed weren't being carted away by script kiddies with too much isk and multiple accounts?

Making mining an exploration based minigame would be lovely but imo it would worsen botting.

First of all if we make discovered belts create a warpable beacon, then we fall just in the same situation we are today. A guy discovers the belt first, all jump and freeload into it.

If they don't create a warpable beacon, then we fall exactly in today's grav sites situation: back during Hulkageddon, out of a whole day in a busy system (Emolgranlan) I have been "invaded" about twice (I have scanned and done grav sites for weeks) despite it's been roamed by Bat Country and James 315. This means bots will be at absolute peace.
IE the ones selectively put out are the potential killers who for some reason seem to can't be arsed scanning.

How do I know bots will adapt? Well I have added as contact the Orcas of some botters and now they are all in 0.0 (which now it's much bots friendly). If they went to the effort of moving their stuff in 0.0, they certainly can put the effort at scanning a belt.

As an explorer, however, I would still like to see a little variety and range in my finds. I don't necessarily need grav sites, though I have discovered how profitable they can be. It just gets a little boring and un-exciting when the only thing you can find in seven systems is more wormholes

The grav sites are rare enough, the real worthy ones (the large) are even rarer. Given their relative rarity they could use a little tweak about the roids composition and yeld some more high ends, just to make more miners bother to put :effort: into scanning them.

The WHs can be annoying but easily skipped by using the advices and data explained in this exploration web site.

I'd indeed would love to see "comet mining" or whatever CCP called the new feature, hopefully it won't just be another vaporware.

I have seen advices in this tread, that suggests the use of filters in the system scanner.
Dont do this yet, b /c these filters do not work the way they should work.

The filter only sorts scan results temporarily out, that have a measured signature strenght sufficient to be identified.
By moving your probes, results sorted out the previous scan, show up again, because now their measured signature strenght is lower.

Summary: Dont use filters until CCP changes their behavior.

IE the ones selectively put out are the potential killers who for some reason seem to can't be arsed scanning.

And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

That's what the 'ignore result' feature is for

What goal is this accomplishing that would make eve more fun?

Allow better balancing of the mineral economy by fine tuning exactly what gets spawned

Allow for random belt construction (rather than simply living in the same belt every day)
Allow for random scenery (or any scenery at all, in fact)

Reduce the capacity for intruders to hot-drop mining fleets

Allow miners to more precisely direct their activity for supply or profit

See the point of this is to start conflict, by having to hunt down your site u start to see it as YOURS and having mining dude 222749D come warping into your site and striping the roads YOU found first will start to **** you off after it Happens a few times.

So it short this is a change to create conflict.

Just ask any body that dose scanning how pissed off it makes them to see someone warp in a site they just scanned down in high or lowsec and start stealing the loot or running them off.

How is it any easier than with normal asteroid belts, which also respawn constantly, and could just as easily have their contents fine tuned?

Allow for random belt construction (rather than simply living in the same belt every day)
Allow for random scenery (or any scenery at all, in fact)

I.e. the effect would be to essentially add a lot more prerequisites to mining (shutting out newbies), and adding a layer of annoyance in having to scan and then go switch ships, and possibly even characters to actually go mine.

I still don't get how this is meant to do anything but make miners earn LESS. When they already are one of the lowest income professions.
A grav site doesn't magically cause the miner to get more ore per hour. Infact they get less since they have to get their probe ship, scan down some sites, book mark them, then change into their miner, and go to said sites. So there is time not making ore.

And grav sites aren't going to magically make the ore worth more either. The only way the ore becomes 'worth' more is if mineral prices go up. And if Mineral prices go up, so does the price of literally everything else. Which means..... The miner has to pay more, so relative to the market he has made exactly the same.

And relative to the market, everyone else makes less.

So..... I'm not seeing how this enhances miners in any way at all.

I still don't get how this is meant to do anything but make miners earn LESS. When they already are one of the lowest income professions.

The only way the ore becomes 'worth' more is if mineral prices go up. And if Mineral prices go up, so does the price of literally everything else.

As part of this kind of a change at least the Skiff/Procurer and Mackinaw/Retriever should get an extra high slot for a probe launcher, coded of course so that ONLY a probe launcher could fit in that slot. The Hulk/Covetor being a fleet mining ship there would be others to probe down a grav site.

Given the limitation of grav sites available at any one time.... this will kill the mineral market and introduce hyper inflation for the prices of everything the likes of which you've never seen......

Go have a look at the rocks currently in grav sites. Then go and look at the rocks currently in asteroid belts.

Would you spend five to ten minutes hunting down a bunch of nice grav sites so that you can then spend a couple of hours mining from floating mountains? Or do you prefer warping to your years-old bookmark and mining gravel?



There are other factors involved which make grav site mining more productive for miners than the gravel we currently find in system belts.

So, you obviously have no clue about mining if you claim only 'Gravel' can be found in standard High Sec belts for a start.

The sites moving is the point of this if you and 50 other miners are all in the same set of stars your ether all going to end up in the same sites, or your going to move away to a richer system with LESS miners in it. Sites moving around all so has the effect if your all crowed around a few systems the sites will inevitable move from the systems your constantly strip mining.

look at it this way right now belts respawn 1 time a day, gav sites respawn every time there completed, sure u have to find them, if any thing this change makes there be more ore in eve not less.

I come to see that every player in eve but a select few have horrible entitlement problems.

One could call the same thing at you, since you fail to explain how there will be more ore, when mining belts rarely get stripped.

*perks up*

Which belts aren't getting stripped?

When i bring my personal mining crew out (2 hulks and an orca) i can strip a high sec belt in an hour. So grav sites would be a welcome change as there would be more ore to get.

As part of this kind of a change at least the Skiff/Procurer and Mackinaw/Retriever should get an extra high slot for a probe launcher, coded of course so that ONLY a probe launcher could fit in that slot. The Hulk/Covetor being a fleet mining ship there would be others to probe down a grav site.