we're in the middle of graphical updates.

Minmatar just had theirs, I think it's Amarr/Gal left to go IIRC.

Thats not really a graphical update.
Its just changing the models .
We are talking about race wide effects and proper distinction between armor tank and shield tank besides from different colors .
Not to mention much more detailed models instead of relying on textures for the heavy duty works.

You'll expect a game which takes in a game worth of hard earned cash each month would be progressing MUCH faster

ok what do you called 3v shadeing there doing plus models changs i saw there vids you posted and eve looks a hell of alot better then that crap you posted. CCP has been up adding the looks of the game for over a year now.

As homeworld is not as big as eve it take time to changes things in a game as large as eve.

Sorry, but I think it's kind of a slap in the face to the art team (as well as CCP as a whole) to say they're in dire need of a graphical update. They've been making great improvements in the graphics department for a while now and there's still more to come.

Sure, Eve isn't the best looking game around, but it still looks great. It's gonna be 10 years old next year. 10. Very few, if any, 10+ year old polygonal 3d games look even half as good as Eve. Hell, you still get a couple of games up until this very day that don't look as good as Eve.

Just saying...

If you're actually comparing the current graphics to the ones from a game released in 2003 (the same year people started playing EVe by the way), then you probably need to pony up & buy new computer hardware. You can't really judge when you have everything set to 'low'.

If you're actually comparing the current graphics to the ones from a game released in 2003 (the same year people started playing EVe by the way), then you probably need to pony up & buy new computer hardware. You can't really judge when you have everything set to 'low'.

EVE definitely looks better. Those HW2 graphics are just a notch above BC3000AD.

You'll expect a game which takes in a game worth of hard earned cash each month would be progressing MUCH faster

Applying more manpower to a situation does not necessarily mean better results.

You kidding me? Those homeworld graphics suck ass. The graphics here are beautiful.

You kidding me? Those homeworld graphics suck ass. The graphics here are beautiful.

Well true, but I'm just saying .
Where is the revolution?

Lets take DICE as an example.

They published the Frostbite engine back at 2008
And each year we see considerable improvements , and today we have BF3, one of the best looking game on the market.

Then we have Dunia engine.
I don't think much needs to be said.

Back to the topic.
The game aesthetically is good, but we just need to fill in the pot holes.

The problem with that argument is each new version of one of those engines is met with the release of a new game. They don't go back and redo an old game with their new engine. Mirror's Edge and Bad Company 1 are still using Frostbite 1. Crysis 2 is still using CryEngine 2. And so on and so on.

They make updates to the games and the engines, but none of them have gone back and redone those games with their new engines because it's a lot of work even for non-MMOs. in many ways, you're essentially remaking the game from scratch because the engine is the backbone of the entire game.

For MMOs, upgrading engines is a task that takes years. After Blizzard updated their engine for Cataclysm, they said they probably would never do it again because of the amount of time and money that it costs. WoW is their cashcow (pro rhymes). You can call Blizzard lazy if you want, but with the amount of money they make off that game, can you imagine how much trouble it must have been for them to upgrade their engine for them to outright say "we're never doing that again"?

Thats not really a graphical update.
Its just changing the models .
We are talking about race wide effects and proper distinction between armor tank and shield tank besides from different colors .
Not to mention much more detailed models instead of relying on textures for the heavy duty works.

You'll expect a game which takes in a game worth of hard earned cash each month would be progressing MUCH faster

The problem with that argument is each new version of one of those engines is met with the release of a new game. They don't go back and redo an old game with their new engine. Mirror's Edge and Bad Company 1 are still using Frostbite 1. Crysis 2 is still using CryEngine 2. And so on and so on.

They make updates to the games and the engines, but none of them have gone back and redone those games with their new engines because it's a lot of work even for non-MMOs. in many ways, you're essentially remaking the game from scratch because the engine is the backbone of the entire game.

For MMOs, upgrading engines is a task that takes years. After Blizzard updated their engine for Cataclysm, they said they probably would never do it again because of the amount of time and money that it costs. WoW is their cashcow (pro rhymes). You can call Blizzard lazy if you want, but with the amount of money they make off that game, can you imagine how much trouble it must have been for them to upgrade their engine for them to outright say "we're never doing that again"?

Why the hell'd you put on a shirt?

Not everything can be art and for the time it was created HW 2 is just that.

But eve is mmo so shiny space whales is all we can wish for shinier they get less soul they have,i cant feel mass of eve ships i cant admire them on the other hand 2003 hw2 is awe inspiring all with DX9b and decade old graphic..silly isn it.

I like EvE space ambient suns look good background too,stars need work on they are from Pentium 3 era,i like hel even if it isn't updated.

I didn't want to. Someone at CCP hates me. I was literally the only one who had a forced portrait re-render when Retribution went live.

I want answers...

...and a hug.

This year has been a year of progress for EVE.
Especially true since the release of Retribution.
Crimewatch, new missile effects , new ships ,rebalancing , new clothing ,etc.

However , there is still a LOOOOoong way to go.
And when we look at a game from 2003 .

Homeworld 2

We are just catching up to the graphical effects of a game for 9 years ago and in certain areas, such as the destruction mechanics , in-game production and aesthetics ,we are still lagging behind.
Not in terms of quality , but in terms of variation and depth.

We need WAY more community ship model events and much faster pace in updates.

Not on the mechanics ,and not on catering to the carebear whiners .
They're working.
The game aesthetically is good, but we just need to fill in the pot holes.
Lets start polishing the graphics before working on the endless list of "things that would be nice to have "

I'm not sure I would call that an upgrade. While the ship there is nicely textured, the way it moves is very unrealistic and arcade motion. The missile effects are nice, but we have those, and the same goes for the turrets, though I think we have an improvement on both as I didn't notice any models for either. Didn't look that closely..

That and the jump-effect? or whatever that was, and the space itself, and UI...

EVE has that game beat 10-1

Irony: Derrick Smart is a goon and was set to join Goonwaffe but wisely decided Eve sucks.

' the way it moves is very unrealistic and arcade motion'

saying that like it is bad thing..how about a frig bumping 19km ship lol rly eve have NOTHING in space movement that can be considered better.

I'll make it simple.

Good gameplay > best graphics.

/thread

I'll make it simple.

Good gameplay > best graphics.

/thread

Gameplay over graphics any day. I guess it's easier to judge a games graphics over it's gameplay when you grew up with games that look like this, as opposed to this.

(I'm not sure that the old game that I linked was any good because I don't recall ever playing it. In fact, I don't even know what it's called. What I do know is many of those games back then were great. these days so much effort is put in to graphics that the actual gameplay & story is over-looked. The Witcher was actually good, which is rather rare these days.)

Crysis 2 is still using CryEngine 2.

Far Cry: CryEngine
Crysis/Crysis Warhead: CryEngine 2
Far Cry 2: Dunia
Crysis 2: CryEngine 3
Far Cry 3: Dunia Engine 2

Lets make it simple for the simple minded.
Already good gameplay = time to make it better by having better graphics.

EVE already has good gameplay :P
What hurt does it do if we start working on the graphics ?

...oh...ok then. Thank you for the clarification I guess, but the specifics are more or less irrelevant to my overall point earlier.

If only they had been working on the graphics for most of the year

I didn't say I'll rather if they worked on the graphics instead of gameplay.

I said right at the beginning.
This year has been a year of progress .
Meaning that I acknowledge the hard work of the team.

I'm just suggesting ,maybe the next update should have a heavier focus on the graphics.

Because EVE desperately needs another expansion that adds absolutely zero content to the game, while much more important stuff is being neglected.

EVE has better looks than a lot of the other MMOs to come out this year. Not bad for a 10 year old game.

its on high thx.
Try zooming onto your ship .
You'll see the problem.

Zooming in all way on your ship doesn't make for good gameplay. A couple of notches back and the ships look amazing. If nothing else they let you zoom in too far.

Put you face right up to any work of art and it looks pretty bad.

we're in the middle of graphical updates.

Minmatar just had theirs, I think it's Amarr/Gal left to go IIRC.

the OP seems to forget that not all of us can afford a new PC with the latest graph cards EACH year

beauty is in the eye of the beholder , the graphics in this game are pretty good in my opinion and compared with 4 years ago when i started playing they are even better and compared how they were 9 years ago they are brilliant ,
it takes time and effort improving them , CCP can't just shelf everything they work for and only concentrate to improve their graphics each time , the community majority will not like this

@Op. I sort pretty much agree with most of what you said. I think EvE is probably the best looking space game out there but they do need to up their game in certain areas.

My main beef with the graphics in EvE is the effects. They just need to go the extra mile and make sure that they have both visual and auditory oomph. They actually took a step backward in that department in Retribution as far as I'm concerned. The new explosions suck by HW2 standards, the particle system is technically better but the overall effect just doesn't compare.

In HW2, the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2.

I totally agree with you about the community ship modeling contests! We definitely need more of them, even if there aren't any prizes other than the possibility of it being put in game. I've been working on a new Typhoon model off and on over the past couple of months and would probably submit it should they have another one. The creativeness of the community was one of the things that drew me to this game so long ago =)

but compared to the competitors of today, EVE is slowly falling behind.

Star Citizen is running on Cry Engine 3 for Christ sake.

and we are running on a puny Trinity2 engine.

That game isn't going to have hundreds to thousands of people in a single battle.

and when we do , we have to zoom all the way out to prevent EXTREME lagfest and the server have to go into time dilation in that system.

I don't have to zoom out.

The first one I've met that says "if you punch your eyes out, you won't see the defects"
Stockholm syndrome victim no 5

Says the guy that punched reality out. Go to any art museum and put your face up to the painting and watch people mock you as you complain about the "defects".

Noone plays with their ship zoomed all the way in, so I don't see you point.

Good thead, it-¦s always good to discuss about all features in a game like this.

Also I think the graphics are really good for a game liket this. You can-¦t expect to see an MMO with next-gen graphics. It-¦s like if someone is waiting for a MMOFPS (like Planetside) with Crysis at very high settings in the same world with 2000+ players online, it-¦s not possible today.

More high-poly models? maybe, but I have some experience in 3D modeling and for me in the videogame industry; shaders/textures > polygons

Anyway I-¦m agree with you in some others graphics features, like explosions. This game it-¦s about spaceships, and this game needs bigger and better explosions imo. Would be awesome to see a improvement this next year.

true, but textures only get you so far .
its like bloom and motion blur , fancy , but mostly just hide all the defects and lazy half finished jobs.
Ever looked at Crysis 2 without the bloom ?

same goes for mine

I never asked for an engine update , i just asked for more focus on the graphics instead of fussing up the mechanics even further.
They fixed bounty.
GREAT
They fixed the bugs!
good
They added new ships.
AWESOME.

Can we start adding in the missing effects now?

Its like you guys are suffering the Stockholm syndrome or something :P

So you are asking for more detailed models for ships. Now, englighten me, how much is your fps with max settings when theres 4 or more full fleets on the grid and fully visible? :)

I zoom out and then I get 50 fps with server dilation
zoom in, the CPU bottleneck kills it down to 30fps

But then again, GIANT fleet battles are quite rare , and the server dilation does an awesome job at controlling the performance issues on both the host and client sides.

HOWEVER , in terms of everyday operations ,the jarring graphical incompetency is not one you can simply dismiss off.

How much time do you spend in Null? Not a dig just a question. If you want to see larger fights thats where they'll be.

Also I think this entire thread smells of you going "Hey heres a great idea everybody. Upgrade your graphics card or gtfo" Eve is still am amazing looking game. Graphically it blows away the majority of other MMO's out there. Why are you comparing an MMO that requires support for multiple client types and capabilities with Crysis2 which is a single player game made by a development team who want to burn your system out on low detail?

TiDi I agree is teh win. But I think you're being somewhat unrealistic

This year has been a year of progress for EVE.
Especially true since the release of Retribution.
Crimewatch, new missile effects , new ships ,rebalancing , new clothing ,etc.

However , there is still a LOOOOoong way to go.
And when we look at a game from 2003 .

Homeworld 2

Now obviously, they are quite hideous for today's standards , but what they have which something EVE could learn is the variety.

We are just catching up to the graphical effects of a game from 9 years ago and in certain areas, such as the destruction mechanics ,gradual deterioration,aesthetics ,and surprisingly , model polycounts .....we are still lagging behind.






Now lets look at another game from starship season 2012

Star Citizen

The contender for the throne of Internet Spaceship pew pew.
A threat to the existence of EVE, but also the driver of competition.

We need WAY more community ship model events and much faster pace in updates.

Not on the mechanics ,and not on catering to the carebear whiners .
They're working.
The game aesthetically is good, but we just need to fill in the pot holes.
Lets start polishing the graphics before working on the endless list of "things that would be nice to have "


*EDIT:
For some strange reason , the mentally challenged think graphics and gameplay is a zero-gain situation.
EVE already has good gameplay :P and its groundwork is solid
What hurt does it do if we start working on the graphics ?

It should be noted that there is also a rather gigantic difference between EVE and both the games you mentioned.

EVE is an MMO, the other two are not.

Homeworld 2 was ostensibly a single player game with the ability to have a maximum of 5 people in multiplayer mode. Star Citizen will also ostensibly be a single player game, with possibly the ability to have up to 100 people on field at once, and even then only some time in the distant future.

Your comparisons are flawed and your argument negated. Having graphics with a detail level as high as that expected from Star Citizen in a game where 2000 people can be in the same place at the same time would prove impossible for all but the top 1 or 2% of PC owners to render without effectively dragging their system performance to zero.

I award you 0/10.

I'm not comparing it to crysis .
I am comparing it to a game from 2003. Homeworld 2 .
And the upcoming MMO called Star Citizen, with similar internet spaceship pew pew themed combat. Which is running on CRY ENGINE 3

Ok, i'll make this even more clear for you, the reason "tricks" as you call them are used is due to it enabling easy graphical settings. If you go out and make models with more faces, those models will stay, and you can't do anything about it.

To sum this up even more for you, ccp is not interested in ditching a huge player base just because they don't have a top notch rig. Does this make sense to you? So they will use "tricks" to make eve look better, and in years to come, when the lowest end computers used to play eve have upgraded, they'll enhance models. They are already updating effects and didn't they just slap new explosions ? Also what comes to hull damage effects, who cares, you plow through target hull in seconds, and for that the fire effects work just great. I'm not going to include capitals that take bit longer in hull because you rarely see them, as you said you rarely even see big fights.

ps. you can't compare bf crysis and such to eve, they don't have as many models in view as eve does, not even nearly.

You forgot one key feature than EVE has but Star Citizen doesn't .
Time dilation.
Without time dilation , at 2000 people. The server would just DIE , if you remember what was said on the last CON.

You forgot one key feature than EVE has but Star Citizen doesn't .
Time dilation.
Without time dilation , at 2000 people. The server would just DIE , if you remember what was said on the last CON.

Its a key problem with MMO that is proved to be solvable.
And in case you didn't notice.
The performance requirement of Cry Engine 3 is on par with the many other MUCH more popular games on the market.
Such as World in Conflict (2010) , Battlefield 3 (2011) , Assassin Creed 3 , Dishonored ,etc.

Don't underestimate the computers of the masses.

Is Star Citizen an MMO?

No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.

Pray tell, how many people partake in matches in any of the other games you just mentioned? Allow me to answer for you:

World in Conflict - Single player game with 16 person multiplayer support.

Battlefield 3 - Single player content with 64 player online multiplayer maps.

Assassins Creed 3 - Single player content with 8 player online content.

Dishonoured - Single player only.

As I already stated, not one of the games you mentioned is an MMO. Attempting to compare EVE to any of the above is the old apples and oranges routine and is thus doomed to fail.


And for clarification, as you appear to have missed my previous statement regarding the nature of Star Citizen, here is a quote lifted directly from the FAQ for said game:



source cited: Star Citizen FAQ.

I highlighted the appropriate section for the purpose of clarity. You cannot, in any conceivable way, compare any of the games you have mentioned to EVE online and still have your argument hold up. EVE's unique position in the PC gaming market is well known and thus far uncontested, something that CCP has been, and remains to this day, rightly proud of. No matter which way you attempt to come at this argument you will lose.

You cannot draw comparisons against something that is provably unique thus, as per my previous statement, your argument is void.

I would welcome a trinity3 engine.

Glad that creativity still thrives in this community :D
Maybe you should get in touch with the GMs with that model?
Better yet , lets wait and see if CCP actually read the forum posts :D

The problem with the graphics in an MMO is that often there are other considerations linked to it. Most notably performance when massive numbers are present. Top notch graphics are all well and good but in fleet battles and in trade hub systems where there are 100's of players for most people it would cause a lot of problems. So unless you happen to own a really high end system or spend most of your time alone in a system this really wouldn't do much good in the long run.

That said, CCP is updating the graphics and they're doing it one step at a time. The V3 project is mostly adjusting the way textures work on ships so that better effects can later be applied. And before those effects can happen every single object in the game needs to have those updates, which takes a lot of time considering the huge amount of assets this game has. The new lighting system they want to use is an example of this. As long as not everything has the V3 treatment they're not using it. Once that is done they can focus on dealing with ships whose poly counts are too low and so on. Same with corp logos and decalls. The V3 textures will open up the options of changing colors and so forth and they've already said that is something they do intend to do.

Give them time, they can only do so much at once.

I read them

My main beef with the graphics in EvE is the effects. They just need to go the extra mile and make sure that they have both visual and auditory oomph. They actually took a step backward in that department in Retribution as far as I'm concerned. The new explosions suck by HW2 standards, the particle system is technically better but the overall effect just doesn't compare.

In HW2, the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2.


Then I'm sure you would agree in this time of revelation , its time for a revolution ?

Yes. All games should all look exactly alike.


(Not).

The difference is , I'm not asking for an engine overhaul .
as proved by WoW, thats HIGHLY impractical, what I'm asking is improving the graphical effects and particle based fog and a more detailed model as a compromise between practicality and graphics.

I'm seeing two different threads of conversation here. One is graphics quality. The other is performance.

As far as graphics goes, no one has mentioned Tesselation yet. At fanfest last year they showed this video and asked if it was something players wanted them to pursue. This was a stand-alone test, not using the current Eve engine. You can read more details in this dev blog
So CCP is looking forward with graphics, don't worry too much on that front

As far performance goes... well that got a very brief mention at fanfest too but they had no map of how they're going to do it. (unless I missed something) In my personal opinion performance should take as high, or higher priority than improving graphics. Just my 0.02 ISK

I clearly pointed out to you, as others have, that those improvements would require substantial hardware upgrades for all but the top 1-2% of EVE players. Do not forget that it is not just you that has to render these more complex models, but rather everyone who is in the same space as you and can see your ship.

While for the most part this may only be a handful of people if you live in a dead end backwater system, there are others who routinely see tens of hundreds of ships. The performance degradation inherent to rendering large numbers of high detail models makes such a thing impractical from a technical standpoint, not to mention suicidal in a customer retention sense.

You constantly made comparisons to both CryEngine 3 and the Frostbite engine, both of which are designed for use in singleplayer, or limited multiplayer games. They are not, nor will be in the foreseeable future, useful for games where it is possible (even if it is with time dilation) to have upwards of 1000 people all interacting within the same small space.

Reading back over your posts you have dismissed things such as shaders and tessellation, both of which can and have been used to great effect both in EVE and in many other games over the years. This leaves only one possible option; a complete engine overhaul, and yet you say this is not what you are asking for.

So, pray tell, what is it you wanted? Do you even know?

My! A whole thread dedicated to graphical updates that are already in the pipeline since before fanfest with several videos showing it off.

The only thing I can't seem to remember is if they are planing to increase texture resolution, but then again I also remember reading somewhere that the model polygons is the limiter and that tessellation would solve this but that it would take a good couple of man years to finish (I can't find a link atm but it was less work than the trinity update).

That same video also show off future lightning effects that will come after (with?) the V3 project. There are also concept art of ships taking damage to noticeable shields as well as armor damage effects.

This is a big project and it will take time and should not be rushed, just be patient.

Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .

Irony: Derrick Smart is a goon and was set to join Goonwaffe but wisely decided Eve sucks.

And how is adding to performance issues good exactly?

EVE still manages to allow a thousand people to shoot at each other.
How many other MMO's have you played that allow that?

How exactly is peformance an intrinsic problem with EVE, when it allows for such large scale fights to happen?
Poly counts don't make a better game, but bad performance always makes a worse one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug

I still remember.
its a step forward, but still a lots of steps to go.

Good job linking to the same video I did, proves that you read everything.

That video proves that tessellation is a great first step toward adding all that detail you are begging for. Give it time and relax instead of whining on the forums.

The tessellation and shaders upgrade are stated on the press conference, its planned by CCP , not me.
But what I want is more extensive graphical effects , note the starting post and the quotes .

Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .

Like I said, what exactly is it that you want? Shader upgrades have already begun, tessellation is in the pipeline and new lighting is apparently ready to roll once the V3 work is complete. So if I understand this correctly, you want what is already planned, has already been implemented, or is in production as we speak? So you have no real point at all? Interesting.

On a related note:



Team Avatar being disbanded has exactly no effect on Carbon. That is overseen by the CTG, or Core Technology Group. You would know this if you had done even the smallest amount of research on anything relating to a subject which you claim to be passionate about.

source: Core Technology, Carbon and You.

So now we've cleared up a few things, what exactly was it you wanted to see?

2003

I suppose you haven't seen the WIP titan destruction animations, where they actually brake apart? Just a response to an earlier demand.

What.

The graphic engine was updated in 2007ish with Trinity expansion. Please do some actual research before posting dates....

The future development and direction is vague at best to the general public, unlike the previous updates which we were promised "Missiles", "turrets" , "V3 textures".
At this stage all we have is , expect changes coming (e.g: DX11 and Phys updates)
Its not specific enough.
What I really want to see?

Maybe you'll understand the worlds from someone's mouth better.
"the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2"


PS: Cool ! Learning more everyday Core Tech it is !

PlanetSide 2.

Uhhh.... not exactly

It doesn't creek , it doesn't bend, no gradual slow secondary eruption and flaring or flickering lights or gas leaking off the hull.
its like someone detonated a bomb on the ship or it imploded or something.

The graphics in EvE are fine. Thinking you need better looking ships/modules/whatever for the gameplay to be better is simply stupid.. Something I personally see as "the console disease"

Sure new graphics would be cool but after a week or two I wouldn't notice them anymore. I would much rather, that they spent time on WiS but that again is a personel opinion.

Personally I think WiS is a gimmick that serves no real function.
!

Truth!!!!

Excellent gameplay and mediocre graphics? I actually think it's the EXACT opposite. Mediocre/poor gameplay, and excellent graphics.

I mean, look at drone UI. Look at PvE content and poor quality of the AI. Combat in EVE is also rather simplistic compared to most modern MMOs that tend to have action-reaction/counter mechanic that is time-sensitive and active damage evasion features.

Personally I feel graphics are good enough. Focus on gameplay, AI, UI, etc.

Hey BunnyVirus, can you tell us something about the new explosions? are finished with Retribution or you are guys working on them for future improvements? I really enjoyed the last visual changes (gorgeous nebulas, new ship textures, missiles, etc) but the new explosions are slightly disappointing imho.

Personally I dont like them either, i-¦d like to have like in mass effect 3 at the beginning of the game where the (insert ship class here) on the surface got destroyed. If our vfx guys are working on them i honestly dont know.

I am running on a puny 250GTS with 1 GB ram and some 6 year old wares .
Its still running on high with everything maxed with 60 fps to spare.

+ All new designed ships (not the "only" v3d) are up to date.
+ All missile effects are up to date
+ All backgrounds are up to date

o All stations are OK
o Most non-combat effects are OK (warp, web)
o All old ships are OK or need some remake, but thats not that important i think

- All turret effects are bad
- All explosions are terrible (not from the quality of the effect, but from the aspect that it feels completely unspectacular and totally unrealistic for an object of such size)
- Most weapon sounds (and explosions) feel very bad
- Ship wrecks are a joke
- There is NO lightning in game. You wont see a single game coming out in 2012 or after that has no dynamic lightning. This is something Eve really needs


All in all i have to say that Eve need better effects for combat because this is what we see all the time we play the game.

You're problem is that video card - it's a value card. I run the game on my Big Screen @ 1080p and it looks great.

Maybe if you upgraded your hardware to something that was released this decade, your experience wouldn't resemble something that was made last decade.

As for a new engine, people with hardware like yours would be the first to suffer.

Eve graphic is great, and the effort they do to keep it updated after 10 years is huge.

Homeworld is not an MMORP so high graphic standards are more easy to manage, and anyway looks far inferior and trivial to me.

Star Citizen is not going to be an MMORPG as well, but, most important: it doesn't even exists! For now is only some home-made movie. We'll talk about it and his graphic if will be released.

Beside all this gameplay is always the most important for a game longevity. Ultima Online is still a great game, go figure.

Personally I dont like them either, i-¦d like to have like in mass effect 3 at the beginning of the game where the (insert ship class here) on the surface got destroyed. If our vfx guys are working on them i honestly dont know.

The graphics in EvE are fine. Thinking you need better looking ships/modules/whatever for the gameplay to be better is simply stupid.. Something I personally see as "the console disease"

Sure new graphics would be cool but after a week or two I wouldn't notice them anymore. I would much rather, that they spent time on WiS but that again is a personel opinion.

I don't think graphics are going to matter much in EVE as long as the game encourages you to play zoomed out to the point that all you see is boxes and crosses. Or as long as the overview continues to command your attention more than what is being rendered in space. Unfortunately I don't think these things will ever change. CCP has made some changes to try to get more information into space itself, and has worked on the camera recently too... but to clear EVE of UI clutter and get a sense of scale going, along with immersive and visceral combat... its those things that EVE is missing and will never have. You'd have to change the game entirely to get them. EVE has decent visuals, its just the nature of the game prevents it from making the most of them.

I'm surprised no one posted the link to the March 2005 Black Sun 2 engine tech demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwT-gHvRhUk

I love the way how the big ship explodes (towards the end of the vid).
And the idea to show shield effects is really nice, too. And the effect on missile impact and the missile explosions look better than what we have in EVE atm, imho (a matter of taste, I know).
Almost hard to believe it's over 7 years old.

I'm surprised no one posted the link to the March 2005 Black Sun 2 engine tech demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwT-gHvRhUk

I love the way how the big ship explodes (towards the end of the vid).
And the idea to show shield effects is really nice, too. And the effect on missile impact and the missile explosions look better than what we have in EVE atm, imho (a matter of taste, I know).
Almost hard to believe it's over 7 years old.

Have you ever heard the saying "If it aint broke dont fix it" never has its been more appropriate to say that. There are lots fo things in this game that need fixing to make it a more enjoyable experiance for the entire player base. Those things are much much more important than a graphics update.

Also never forget this is an MMO, im sure CCP take metrics of the average EVE players PC and make an effort to cater to that, when they move the bar too high they start to exclude players and shut out potential buisness (think of all the multi boxers) I remember reading info on steams metrics and being shocked by how bad the average steam users pc was.

All I know is Caldari ships and Raven especially, need new models. Symmetric ones.

A bit misleading your post was
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Im not sure it was at all misleading, the game still look amazing on full graphics, most people dont have incredible gaming computers and MMO`s make themselves accsesible to largest player base possible. Nothing misleading in what i said

Look at the steam statistics I now included in the front page and look at the generalized trend ,see what the majority is on ,and then return.

On a side note, its not amazing ,its alright .

Eve isn't known for having jaw dropping graphics . but we can change that

interesting how two people can look at the same data and come to completely different conclusions - I look at the list of video cards and I see an awful lot of Intel's integrated graphics chipsets, many mobile chipsets and a surprising amount of incredibly old gfx cards (2 GeForce 9 Series cards in the top 10, a 2006 card - GeForce 8600 - on spot 23).

Now, pretty much anything could hide in the 35% "Other[s]" but based on that list my overall impression is that PC gamers have much worse hardware than I would have expected (and we aren't even talking about the "facebook games only" crowd at this point, these are actual gamers who were serious enough to search for and find Steam)

Eve isn't known for having jaw dropping graphics .

Yes it is...

EVE has won multiple awards for them.

All I know is Caldari ships and Raven especially, need new models. Symmetric ones.

...but how do you improve upon perfection?

...but how do you improve upon perfection?

no ship is perfect.

We can only view a ship with accordance to its aesthetics and artistic direction and then rate it accordingly.

When we rotate around the theme of avant garde and uhhh... BRICKS , its excellent.

But subjectively speaking , the only TRULY intimidating ship design is Corax

I see a lot of at least X50 GTS series cards and the same goes for ATI.

Mobile cards constitute less than 5% of the entire survey.
Onboard display is simply silly and is only around 5.52% of the population.

With the proportion of mid-range display cards continuing to rise as seen from the trend done from July to November.

But how closely does the population of Steam subscribers match the population of EVE subscribers? I play EVE Online, but none of my systems are represented in that Steam survey (2 Apple computers for starters).

Considering Steam is one of the largest launcher platforms. I'll say its a VERY good indication ,

UPDATED 2012/12/18 10:29

Long winded rant about Eve not being purty enough.

Seriously, I don't give a rats behind about graphics. What I do care about is gameplay and fluidity of the game.

The fluidity of the game when you are in a 200+ man battle already suffers NOW, on decent up to date hardware. Imagine what it would be like if the ability to dumb-down graphics was removed in favor of Eve being more shiny.... seriously, go away and stop breaking my game. I have no even touched the dual/triple boxing here... which makes matters even worse.

Game play >>>> Graphics.

If you want Eve to be pretty, turn all settings to high and enjoy your laggy **** when doing any kind of fleet battle (but you probably mostly mine, right?)

Anyway, rant right back at ya.

Yes, I know, here's a great idea - let's make EVE's graphics so advanced that people struggling to get by as it is on their dual core pentium can't play anymore. I'll tell you what, if the graphics of EVE go beyond why I can afford by way of supporting hardware, I won't be playing it anymore. In fact, that's one of the reason people switch to console.

Additionally, Star Citizen is NOT a contender for EVE. It's a WOW/Wing Commander hybrid, and it doesn't even have a proper sandbox.

The graphics are working just fine, and I won't complain about a graphics update if the options remain to turn them right back to where I have them now. And I would not be surprised if a vast portion of EVE's audience were also subject to simpler hardware like myself. Remodelling and re-texturing is sufficient for now.

so you're saying your computer can't candle a game from 2003
HW 2
but can handle EVE , updated to Trinity 2 a while back around 2007
However, adding effects from the 2003 era may mean that your computer won't be able to run EVE anymore?

Interesting

Read my post.

I said IF my computer is unable to handle any graphics updates to EVE, then I won't be buying a new one just to play EVE. IF my hardware can handle any graphics updates, then it won't be a problem. If it can't, but the option to dial them back is included, then it also won't be a problem.

How did you miss that point completely? And why would they revert to old technology?

Yes, I know, here's a great idea - let's make EVE's graphics so advanced that people struggling to get by as it is on their dual core pentium can't play anymore. I'll tell you what, if the graphics of EVE go beyond why I can afford by way of supporting hardware, I won't be playing it anymore. In fact, that's one of the reason people switch to console.

Additionally, Star Citizen is NOT a contender for EVE. It's a WOW/Wing Commander hybrid, and it doesn't even have a proper sandbox.

The graphics are working just fine, and I won't complain about a graphics update if the options remain to turn them right back to where I have them now. And I would not be surprised if a vast portion of EVE's audience were also subject to simpler hardware like myself. Remodelling and re-texturing is sufficient for now.

That's wrong.

Star citizen is an EVE style mmo, with single player storyline missions akin to wing commander.

CCP should hire ice la glance, the creator of various gfx realism mods (like for GTA IV).

She knows how to push graphics. ^_^