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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Frey Haklar
Exploration Frontier inc
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 22:03:00 -
[1711] - Quote
Towers need more love ! |
Bashar Hardin
Twisted Inc. Twisted.
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:03:00 -
[1712] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP should not consider POS in the realm of too large to do, or a Jesus feature, or something that needs to be spanned over 2 years. POS are something every player can engage in the use of, regardless of SEC status of their chosen home.
Give players their own little slice of EVE. Promote ownership, this hits all the magic marketing areas. Players that have ownership in something are far more likely to stay with the game. No one wants to use POS right now unless they have to, the interface is godawful, the benefits almost non-existent, and the ability to use it for anything that isn't better served elsewhere very limited.
If Crimewatch can get a team dedicated to it, I see no reason POS shouldn't.
Allucia Darkcreft wrote: POSs represent what I believe to be the most unique aspect of EVE and one of its biggest potential selling points. The PVP aspects of EVE are well known to outsiders, but that you can own your own piece of the game world is something that largely exists only in the minds of outsiders as an element of SWG. I had no idea you could own your own chunk of space until I had already subscribed, and I would bet quite a great deal of money that if non-subscribers knew about POSs, and they were given the time in the limelight with a solid update, that a HUGE chunk of new players would come onboard. This would be especially true if the POS gameplay could offer newer players a way to manage a smaller base in high sec; something simple but something to call their own.
Full (excellent post imo) post here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2475140#post2475140
With another post I read but CBA trawling to find that makes the point that all other MMOs give you the opportunity to have a residence all of your own. Be it a house, castle tower or superhero headquarters a sense of ownership invests you in the game. I would argue only more so if this then came under threat, as it would eventually have to (this being Eve and all).
How would this be implemented? No idea tbh. with 350k subs and 3 chars per sub those moons are going to dry up fast. Planets are reserved for Dust and NPC governments and Megacorps. Another post mentioned small anomalies in space (not quite comet mining or such but say, an asteroid composed entirely of just worthless rock, hollow it out and put some doors on it. That sort of thing). Maybe an ambitous (NPC) Megacorp, recognising the population rise in capsuleers, starts to put up orbital infrastructure to power smaller POS residences in highsec.
The point is I feel these posts I quoted above (and others in this thread) have legs enough to to be worth pursuing with regards to ownership and then onwards towards providing more incentive for CCP to go ahead with the brand new, ground up, base code. It will bring in more subs
(I may be getting off the point of this thread a little too much here but let's face it, I just want less work for my WH POS and more usability to employ more corpies safely for my corp ) |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
100
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:04:00 -
[1713] - Quote
Yep, as the de facto alliance POS lackey, I strongly support this good thing. Dealing with POS (as well as that byzantine role management UI) is objectively the worst element of this game. There's good mental health reasons why no one else in alliance has attempted to wrap their head around this overly complicated bullshit UI, so I'm basically stuck with this ****** job forever. What fun! |
Fish Alabel
A Big Enough Lever
15
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:04:00 -
[1714] - Quote
fix pos. i want to make space dicks out of modular poses :P |
J3ssica Biel
Fatal Ascension
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:04:00 -
[1715] - Quote
buttes |
Jack Lagoon
Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:04:00 -
[1716] - Quote
POS logistics suck, we as POS managers demand reform of the system or we shall strike! |
BlueCommander1
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
3
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Posted - 2013.01.17 22:05:00 -
[1717] - Quote
+1 for POS changes |
Apollo307
Crytek Dynamics
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:05:00 -
[1718] - Quote
Fix the pos. it need work, can u also do more on the next expansion pls. |
sembur
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:05:00 -
[1719] - Quote
I have immense professional sympathy for where CCP is coming from here.
I always saw the interlocking building block vision as highly ambitious and fraught with risks. But you eat an elephant one bite at a time.
We have been given the ability to name the components and arrays. That was a baby step, but it made a significant improvement in the player experience. Granted it came as part of the amelioration of the disruptions from Unified Inventory, but that demonstrates again how Player Owned Structures touch everything in this game. All Tech 2, Tech 3, combat booster industry depends on them (the user experience for reactions really wants your attention), and that discounts their use as shelter in all security of space which as has been pointed out drives conflict and generates content.
Please prioritize taking the next step, now.
|
Dakii
Eve Ship Building Inc. Fatal Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:06:00 -
[1720] - Quote
ccp please get to work on this..... thanks |
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:06:00 -
[1721] - Quote
Having done extensive POS, reactions in the past.. i can only say one thing; GET THAT REVAMP DONE!..
Doing it weekly made me not log in, at the end...
Thinking about alliance logistic people doing it DAILY make my sweat turn to the purest of salt....
POS's can be an awesome addition to the game, this is not only a revamp for the people that currently use it(WH people this message much hurt from CCP) .... But also for the average joe, which might get into this sorta thing if it became easire and better to use.
This revamp MUST happen, right now it's a joke beyond believe. |
Apothne
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:07:00 -
[1722] - Quote
Please, please, PLEASE work on the POSs. |
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
199
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:09:00 -
[1723] - Quote
I would like it very much if ccp focused on better poses, and I would also like it very much if we could have a more appropriate pos deployment ship than the two and a half bil Rorqual.
I think that would be just aces. |
Eric Xallen
The New Era C0NVICTED
15
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:10:00 -
[1724] - Quote
Please look at fixing POSes in detail! they are so painful to use yet so critical in nullsec and wormhole life. We don't like punishing people by making them manage them! |
Ronan Connor
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:11:00 -
[1725] - Quote
One quick win could be to make arrays "upgrade-able" like PI stations. Like an invention array can be upgraded up to 10 times of a single array. Should be downgrade able as well. Doing so you dont have 8 research arrays to fill or 6 assembling arrays.
Also make a pos useable by everyone in an alliance if roles are provided.
Slots like for copy and invention should be able to be offered for a fee at an office in the system. For that all the needed resources should stay in your hangar and the arrays should work only like a "cloud computer" for calculations.
Thats what i got while only quickly thinking of some immediate actions you could take. |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
101
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:11:00 -
[1726] - Quote
CCP eat the eggs. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Saints Amongst Sinners
35
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:11:00 -
[1727] - Quote
To be blunt, I see the proposed POS system as the only thing that is likely to keep me in game, at this point I have given up on living in Sov 0.0 under the current system because its just not possible to play smart or under the radar and you are just picked off. So having the proposed POS which could be put anywhere with a stealth mode, that could jump out and be modular to suit your needs and have proper security really excited me, because I could operate in 0.0 without sov, this gave me something to continue playing Bottom up changes that enable people to do things themselves or in small groups are what is going to make 0.0 work again for smaller entities. Please do it, its really important and make sure you include the abilities I just mentioned... |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
312
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:12:00 -
[1728] - Quote
Thanks to the CCP devs for posting.
Given the options posted by Two Step, I'd argue that, ASAP:
1) have a team work on blunting the sharpest and pointiest bits of POS interaction, including corp roles and asset management; 2) have another team work on a clean-sheet redesign, building off one of the existing proofs of concept.
Both will be done when they're done. I'm happy to leave that determination to CCP. But given the sheer scope of a total reworking, the time to start on it is now.
I hope this thread has demonstrated that, as infuriating as they are, POSes are not a curiosity that's only important to a minority of the population. This needs to happen, and the sooner we know that there are actual teams in place doing the work, the happier we'll all be. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1278
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:13:00 -
[1729] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:
From page 19:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
"Seagull: The reason there's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."
Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
It's pretty much a no-brainer.
Go look at the "beating a dead horse" thread and implement everything in it.
You're done. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
Acki
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:13:00 -
[1730] - Quote
I'd be interested in POS. |
|
Zyrbalax III
Goldcrest Enterprises
60
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:13:00 -
[1731] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:You want a theme CCP? How about dramatically reducing player dependency on NPC stations, introduce new industrial capabilities, increase PVP opportunities, shake up the markets and generally make game life both more manageable and more exiting for everyone?
Introducing EXODUS II; players moving out of NPC stations across the cluster and into new shiny, self-constructed homes. Basing out of NPC stations should primarily be attractive to newbies and when you are away from the game for longer periods.
Some brainstorming ideas (most of these can also be applied to current outposts):
A Player Owned Station (not structure) system that is modular and scalable - serving as anything from a personal home for a single player to an alliance level base star.
A minimum POS is a upgradable Command Module that provides power and CPU, which have a hangar, storage space and a captains quarters. A basestar could consist of multiple linked maximum upgraded command modules which provide massive amounts of power and CPU for a multitude of modules serving different functions.
NPC stations looses all level 4 and 5 agents. Level 1-3 only. Corps and alliances with sufficient standings can install level 4 (level 5 in low/null) agent modules on their POS for corp, alliance or public access. Access to those agents to be determined by standings to the POS owner in addition to the NPC corp operating the agent.
NPC stations looses all 50% refineries and only gets the 35% type. 50% refineries currently found in NPC stations can only be installed on POSes for corp, alliance or public access. The POS owner regulates the refining fees to be paid.
NPC stations keep their markets, but in addition you can install a market module on your POS for personal, corp, alliance or public access, making internal corp/alliance markets possible.
You can install research and manufacturing modules for personal, corp, alliance or public access. All research and manufacturing should be more efficient and cheaper on a POS than in a NPC station.
You can install office modules on your POS and rent them out to corporations (nice with an alliance level installation).The number of office spots at NPC stations should be reduced and rent increased.
If you want to keep your POS location a secret, it cannot contain any public module (market, office, refinery, laboratory, assembly array etc. set to public access), or any agent module. All poses with these services will show up in the overview.
This is what you can do with "generic" capbilities. I havenGÇÖt even touched new POS capabilities tailored for lowsec, nullsec or wormhole space. IGÇÖm sure there could be quite a few.
You should be able to anchor your POS anywhere in a solar system, making it possible to have thousands of POSes in a single system. You could take this opportunity to revamp the current moon mining mechanic as well.
You could allow players to cloak their POS (at the price of powering everything down) to avoid detection while on vacation for example. If someone has the bookmark to it, it can still be killed though. ItGÇÖs a gamble. Leave it uncloaked with powered-up defenses? Or cloak it and hope nobody have the bookmark and warps to it while you are away?
^^ This. Exactly this. CCP please start work on modular scalable POS system. Start with the smallest with limited functionality / avaialble modules but with a clear roadmap for what you intend to put in as potential functionality when all's done. Keep existing POSes as well until there's enough scale to replace the old ones. Keep building the new POSes up until they can also replace outposts. I don't use POSes at the moment but would love to have my own personal (small) home in space.
At over 1700 posts so far no-one's going to read this, so just another vote but every one counts...
Z3 |
NenYim
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:14:00 -
[1732] - Quote
id LOVE to see more ppl using a POS, but until they get worked on its like what came first the chicken or the egg. ppl cant use pos's as they are and cant/wont use them till they are fixed so what comes first? ppl using them or pos's been fixed?
i say fix the problem u have had 4 over 4 years! PS, i don't care if it takes 3/4 expansions 2 complete... but it need 2 start SOON! |
WilliamMays
Stuffs Inc.
53
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:15:00 -
[1733] - Quote
Anybody who thinks POS users are a small percentage of eve players needs their head checked. At the same time, the POS revamp as a whole is far to massive; it must be broken up into small chunks of work spread over multiple releases.
Start with the basics, the low hanging fruit, stuff that easily fits into either version of POSes. We don't immediately need a docking module, cap ship mooring, POS jump drives, or the huge POS city, all great ideas that have been discussed by players and Greyscale. A smaller, more doable chunk would be to build the new tower itself and a few modules that don't require a shield to be usable, such as SMA, CHA, assembly arrays, mobile labs, cyno becons, jump bridges, guns and ECM stuff. This would allow players to put up a ratting tower to hold ammo, loot, swap out ships (safe up in an old POS when necessary); industrialists can research and build without the shield too. JBs and cyno beacons might be a little more iffy, since those towers are often alliance used safe spots; but the idea here is to put stuff in the game and let players use it. A mining tower would still be difficult, since there is nowhere to siege a rorqual without the shield; leave that for later.
CCP and players only need a starting point, something fairly small that we can put to use. This will give players and Devs something they can experience and learn where we want to go next. |
GeoffWICE
Grey Nomads Combat Mining and Logistics
53
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:16:00 -
[1734] - Quote
Adding my Support for POS revamp.
last I checked POS's are in high sec, low sec, 0.0 and WH so exactly how does that not afect like every one?
also thinking about theams for next expansion.
pos rework required. corp management rework rocks/ice auto respawn so not requiring downtime
theam: ... establishment? sorry best i could come up with
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
386
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:16:00 -
[1735] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:The very first thing I want done: Corporate roles management update: Make managing Corporate Roles not unlike managing an IT network.
- Permissions to resources are set in categories: "Look at"; "Use"; "Configure"; "Reset"
- Anything which can be done, any corporate action, and role, and resource (such as POS') has permsissions associated with it.
- Permissions can be bundled into sets.
- Sets can be assigned to Groups.
- Groups can contain Players.
Forgot to mention:
Seriouisly - just go talk to your IT folks - they'll be able to easily explain how it's done and the philosophy behind it. This alone would make the current incarnation of POS' very much easier to bear. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
Yorinar
Tactical Soldiers Nulli Secunda
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:16:00 -
[1736] - Quote
I don't care if you do nothing else. Make POS's worth a damn and not a nightmare to maintain. They should be the center of nullsec life. Not an afterthought. |
Ammzi
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
1295
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:22:00 -
[1737] - Quote
POS should be one of the highest top priorities on CCP's desk,
right
now quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:22:00 -
[1738] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard. Thank you, we appreciate this.
While I do not work with Player-Owned Starbases, myself, I have been given to understand the following:
1) The fraction of the playerbase that actually works with the Starbase interface is so small precisely because working with it is so mentally painful. The more you improve the POS feature, the more players that will begin directly engaging it on a regular basis.
2) Starbases are important to Tech 2 industry and Player Sovereign logistics (because of jump bridges) and utterly indispensable to Tech 3 industry (on account that Reverse Engineering must take place at a Starbase module) and wormhole dwellers (on account that a w-space corporation has no other place to store stuff long-term).
3) Consequently, because of the above points, while the fraction of the playerbase that actually works with the Starbase interface is small, the spillover benefits to other players who work with POS managers would be considerable if you can make POS management significantly less painful. Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:26:00 -
[1739] - Quote
Considering I have personally known well over 100 corporations between null sec, wormholes, and yes, even high sec, that use poses, and have used them myself, I agree that something needs to be fixed! CCP does NOTHING but ***** about how wormholes aren't being properly populated and exploited, and the biggest[/] reason for this is the fact that POSes, as they now stand, require too much attention, research, effort, work, etc to [b]try to keep them relatively secure (compared to stations, or even the modular eggs) from corp thieves and all, and to have all that effort fail at a MUCH higher rate then the other to consistently FORCES this that CCP does want to change to NOT change.
CCP, get off your asses, and instead of complaining your player base isn't living up to your expectations, run your game as fits your player base!
make changes to POSes! |
Nylaklerk
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:28:00 -
[1740] - Quote
I am in favor of a POS revamp. |
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