Here's what I'll suggest: let's break things down into meaningful chunks, and make it an 18/24 month project. Build the new POS system slowly as a 'farms and fields' conflict driver in all levels of space; eg, you anchor the new towers at certain beacons/exploration sites to seize control of them and provide resources/abilities, and keep the old system roughly the same until the new system is full featured enough to feasibly replace it.

Start out doing something simple for summer 2013 (small POSs anchored directly attached to comets, mining for moongoo - no guns or anything too complex, think something like a POCO), but expand iteratively from there over time to new areas while working on reimplementing POS functionality alongside this. Maybe you add med towers, reactors, guns, corp storage, and mooring in winter 2013; maybe large towers, industry, labs, reprocessing, market, contracts, and moon anchoring in summer 2014; and maybe the full system can be replaced by winter 2014 with full docking/captains quarters, forcefields, etc.

I support a POS revamp.

I strongly disagree with the abandonment of the modular POS system, and support this thread in its entirety.

It's been said by CCP that the development of the modular POS system would only help a few people; POSs impact daily life for thousands of players (to use CCP Seagull's terminology, the 'instigators' and 'enablers', especially the latter, have to deal with them all the time), and it's one of the most ancient and diseased features of EVE. I also think properly reimplemented, they can be an amazing source for the player interaction that CCP says it's striving for.

It's also been said that it would be too much effort, and I respectfully disagree here as well. I think that you can spread the work out over a long period of time and develop it alongside other features. To quote my suggestion in the minutes blog thread:


I think this is in line with what CCP Unifex posted in his blog. I think the biggest argument that I have to make here is that this isn't going away. If you don't do this NOW and just kick the can down the road, in two years or five years or ten years the utter misery of the POS system is going to be dragging EVE down. Hell, it already is.

-Chaos

Towers need major love soon.

+1

Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that GÇ£is what will kill the businessGÇ¥.

Pretty much the entire CSM agrees that POSes have to be replaced in the mid- to long-term, and in the meantime, something has to be done to reduce the pain induced by current POSes.

I for one will be working hard to encourage CCP, during the planning process that they have just started, to choose a theme that naturally includes work on POSes. The unprecedented access we are getting during this process gives us the opportunity to make the case.

Our second Skype meeting about this is on Friday. Wish us luck.

Wormholers have been very patient with CCP during the last couple years while other supposedly higher priority issues have been addressed.

You do up a lovely dev blog about Design for GÇ£EnablersGÇ¥ & GÇ£InstigatorsGÇ¥ and then 2 seconds later the GÇ£EnablersGÇ¥ are once again taking it from behind.

This is very much why when CCP puts out a Dev blog so much of the community just considers it as words on a screen and nothing else.

Yes you have a new corporate structure and the first act is too go against it on day one.

I think this is a good example of how poorly CCP knows its own game.

I live in a POS and I have a problem.


Now, I took the first step. It's up to CCP to take the next.

First I'd like to say that I understand where CCP is coming from, but that doesn't make the knife in my back feel any better. We were PROMISED a POS revamp, and living out of POSes is one of the shittiest parts of the game.

I agree with Ripard Teg -give us the ability to plant station eggs in W space.

Please fix pos's... then perhaps wormhole corps won't require a blood sample to recruit you.

This is a massive understatement.

In the nearly 4 years since the introduction of wormhole space content, there has been virtually ZERO development or progression of wormhole space content or mechanics, except two exceptions.

First, was the anticipated storyline content that CCP Dropbear was working on, that we all hoped would lead to in game wormhole/sleeper development. But, any hope for further wormhole space content development seems to have packed up and left with Dropbear when he boarded the plane.

Second, was the one change that actually made a difference in our lives. I bet when this change was being requested a statement to the effect of "inclusion of corp bookmarks by itself would only affect a small portion of the community" was uttered more than once by a developer. Thankfully, corp bookmarks ACTUALLY were finally implemented and it was a GAME CHANGER for wormhole residents, even though it benefited all of Eve, much like POS rework would. Finally, some of the bureaucratic and artificial inefficient barriers were removed so we could actually start enjoying (and actually playing) the game more.

As pointed out by many, POS improvements are beneficial to everyone, but specifically would be a game changer for wspace residents. Unlike null, low, and high sec people we don't have any other options other than to live out of the very broken and poorly designed system that is Player Owned Structures. This unnecessary complexity and difficulty is forced upon us.

We're tired of being overlooked and taken for granted. This is why wspace residents banded together and voted Two Step into CSM. We're significant enough to have CSM representation. You've neglected us for 4 years now. CCP it's time you give us a little respect and attention.


o7 Klokvarg
[ADHC Director who is constantly confused and frustrated by the POS interface]

I'm seriously hoping that the dev who blurted out that brainfart that it only affects a minor portion of the playerbase is either getting sacked entirely or moved to handle something where they can't harm the game any further than already has been done. .

Only a blood sample, you got off light.

Hey CCP remember back when POS's were introduced and the current system was said to be a placeholder until the UI and other components could be improved?

Hah, it's been a great decade... where's my update?

- What "time window" would be involved in adjusting them?

- What time windows would be involved in learning how to adjust them properly?

- What state would these be in until adjustments were made? "Default" security being ... upon implementation?

- What happens to the now defunct structural layouts that *ARE* deployed?
- What happens with layout changes needed to support a stronger configuration when the nearest base is ... far away?

The idea of changes do make sense and would be of benefit and value but getting there might cause mass nightmares for many outfits depending on how radical the changes are.

Confirming that CCP is ruled by nullsec pocket books and that wormholers or the poor saps in null that do logistics do not matter.

Perhaps it could be that current active POS managers are only a small portion of the community because POSes are so bad right now. I once lived in a wormhole and it was a great way to make ISK. The reason I left? Managing the POS that was our supposed home, but felt more like a lean to or something Bear Grylls would make whilst swilling his own ****.

In short, if the POS management community is small, it's only through the continuing failure by CCP to grow it through (at the least) an accessible management system.

The modular idea is an awesome one...let us build our homes and live in them and want to fight to defend them.

~R~

[quote=Marc Scaurus]Perhaps it could be that current active POS managers are only a small portion of the community because POSes are so bad right now. I once lived in a wormhole and it was a great way to make ISK. The reason I left? Managing the POS that was our supposed home, but felt more like a lean to or something Bear Grylls would make whilst swilling his own ****.

In short, if the POS management community is small, it's only through the continuing failure by CCP to grow it through (at the least) an accessible management system.

#13 Posted: 2012.05.31 20:21

I'd hazard a guess:

* The next major POS upgrade is going to be V3 shaders.
* A few years later, the force field will get a facelift, returning to the rainbow soap-bubble look.
* Fuel block icons enhanced to a 3D transparent glass-like look.
* Anchoring / On-lining / Reinforced timer text will be improved with a new font, scaling, and drop-shadows.
* New racial POS soundtracks will be added.

All the sort of important things we've been begging for for years.

/bittervet

I wrote a blog post about the summit, here: http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2013/01/i-am-small-portion-of-community.html

If you want CCP to work on the POS system, either by improving the current one or by starting work on the long awaited Modular POS system, post here.

I invite CCP Unifex to keep his character in W-space for a couple of weeks.

I read the blog post.
I was tempted to come in here dropping f bombs left, right and center.

a few deep breaths later and here I am.

I just resubed. Only because I thought the POS system was about to get better.
I am about to go and remove the auto sub from all of my accounts. They will expire unless the CSM post a clear and emphatic "POS life WILL be improved in May." once the 'planing phase' is done.

I read the blog post.
I was tempted to come in here dropping f bombs left, right and center.

a few deep breaths later and here I am.

I just resubed. Only because I thought the POS system was about to get better.
I am about to go and remove the auto sub from all of my accounts. They will expire unless the CSM post a clear and emphatic "POS life WILL be improved in May." once the 'planing phase' is done.

Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that GÇ£is what will kill the businessGÇ¥.
...
On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community.

....

Y'all got Soon(tm) bombed! Ohooo!

I'll bring this to you in a slightly different way, you don't seem to be seeing what I do here. Unless you understand some aspects of software design complexities, you may not see potential problems -- we don't have the code to look at nor understand what "hacks" have been done to enable and disable certain types of functionality (such as POS shields, passwords on them, "POS bowling" 'fixes', etc.)

lots of other quite legitimate stuff.

The vision we were given: that you can start with your private space cubicle and expand into a full village of modules would have allowed POSes to become even much more integral to EVE gameplay than they are now.

If it appears to CCP that "only a small portion" of players uses POSes now, the goal could be to change exactly this. POS space villages could be the apocrypha-like "new environments" that people conjure in their minds. They could be the in-game asset basis for many of the enabler/instigator tools that we would like to have.

I always understood the idea such that modular POSes will not be created only to fix what bothers current starbase owners, but also to provide new gameplay for the 99%. With ramifications to industry, null-sec "farms and fields", intel, but also new options for young players.

I totally support any effort to convince CCP that this an important thing to do.

Fly smart, Chira.

Outrageous u-turn CCP!

Because of the terrible security on POS we w-space corp are forced to exclude large parts of the player base from our recruitment. When we explained this to Greyscale and Masterplan last March they could see this hits your bottom line.

We don't want the whole company for a whole expansion.

We don't even need a whole new pos system.

WE NEED SECURE SHIP STORAGE.

Please give us access control lists on Ship Maintenance Arrays!

Outrageous u-turn CCP!

Because of the terrible security on POS we w-space corp are forced to exclude large parts of the player base from our recruitment. When we explained this to Greyscale and Masterplan last March they could see this hits your bottom line.

We don't want the whole company for a whole expansion.

We don't even need a whole new pos system.

WE NEED SECURE SHIP STORAGE.

Please give us access control lists on Ship Maintenance Arrays!

If you want CCP to work on the POS system, either by improving the current one or by starting work on the long awaited Modular POS system, post here.

So basically they are saying revamping posses would take the full development effort of one expansion and they can't sell that as an expansion. Okay, I get that. .

I'm starting to wonder if they're just testing the community at this point, trying to rustle our jimmies. Yes we'd like a change to poses, no I don't manage one at the moment (because they're so broken).

Outrageous u-turn CCP!

Because of the terrible security on POS we w-space corp are forced to exclude large parts of the player base from our recruitment. When we explained this to Greyscale and Masterplan last March they could see this hits your bottom line.

We don't want the whole company for a whole expansion.

We don't even need a whole new pos system.

WE NEED SECURE SHIP STORAGE.

Please give us access control lists on Ship Maintenance Arrays!

Item Count Neg Score Neg Popular Name
34 1179 7 3,047.18 11.76 25.93%Docking games fix (CSM)
28 1122 2 2,894.59 4.29 24.68%Corporation and Alliance tool overhaul (CSM)
82 1010 0 2,620.75 0.00 22.22%Overhaul of roles and grantable roles system (CSM)
143 1001 39 2,604.45 103.49 22.02%War-dec mechanics (CSM)
91 954 5 2,529.96 10.75 20.99%Remote repping and aggression (CSM)
3 919 3 2,165.76 5.36 20.22%Add the feature of switching characters without relogging. (CSM)
14 902 2 2,113.26 5.50 19.84%Black Ops Improvements (CSM)
8 895 5 2,080.09 12.03 19.69%Assault Frigates 4th Bonus (CSM)
54 750 0 2,001.42 0.00 16.50%History of who added/kick character from Corporation
76 675 0 1,847.57 0.00 14.85%More Control Over Medals (CSM)
35 787 3 1,832.17 2.77 17.31%Drone improvements (CSM)
75 763 0 1,818.80 0.00 16.78%Modular Starbase (CSM) (includes Funky POS recommendation (CSM))

Results without Eve University (Ivy League) Votes

Item Count Neg Score Neg Popular Name
3 892 3 2,104.64 5.36 22.53%Add the feature of switching characters without relogging. (CSM)
14 889 2 2,085.54 5.50 22.45%Black Ops Improvements (CSM)
8 871 5 2,027.78 12.03 21.99%Assault Frigates 4th Bonus (CSM)
75 754 0 1,797.02 0.00 19.04%Modular Starbase (CSM) (includes Funky POS recommendation (CSM))

The problem of pos will be solved if a couple of ccp devs live and manage and produce and defend in a pos for a week.After that week these couple of devs will be walking the streets of Iceland rambling things like "God we were doing walk in stations while half of the players waste their life in poses"

Outrageous u-turn CCP!

Because of the terrible security on POS we w-space corp are forced to exclude large parts of the player base from our recruitment. When we explained this to Greyscale and Masterplan last March they could see this hits your bottom line.

We don't want the whole company for a whole expansion.

We don't even need a whole new pos system.

WE NEED SECURE SHIP STORAGE.

Please give us access control lists on Ship Maintenance Arrays!