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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
217
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is a good change. If you rely on war deccing carebear nooblet corps to pad your killboard, you suck at Eve. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
14
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:This is a good change. If you rely on war deccing carebear nooblet corps to pad your killboard, you suck at Eve.
its not the carebear /nooblet corps that is the ones doing it, its the pecker heads who decide to **** one off and keep hopping around in 1/2 man corps to avoid any reprecussions for there actions. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
69
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Cost is a little less than 400 million a week. Then have the 20th corp join your alliance. This does not increase the cost of the 19 wars. This was a bug, and actually fixed some time ago when the new billing system went in which added automatic payments - as it was, once initially generated a war bill never updated its costs. A total of 19 wars (from your example) would now cost just over 18 billion ISK to maintain per week, so not really an option that way.
Just so Im sure I understand: Are you saying that a corp that has been war decced can increase the cost of that war from 2 million to 50 million by joining an alliance? What if that alliance already has a war, does the cost of this new one go up to 100 million? CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
217
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:This is a good change. If you rely on war deccing carebear nooblet corps to pad your killboard, you suck at Eve. its not the carebear /nooblet corps that is the ones doing it, its the pecker heads who decide to **** one off and keep hopping around in 1/2 man corps to avoid any reprecussions for there actions.
Okay, admittedly that's a problem. But I don't see how that's ever going to be solveable. |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is an abomination.
Basically this means that war-decs are consensual PvP only, because anyone with any competence at all will be able to avoid any war-dec they don't like the look of.
There are no words for how terrible a decision this is. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alex Tremayne wrote:This is an abomination.
Basically this means that war-decs are consensual PvP only, because anyone with any competence at all will be able to avoid any war-dec they don't like the look of.
There are no words for how terrible a decision this is.
Pretty much what he said, basically the only people who will get war deced are little noob corps wh don't know how to shield themselves or can't afford to, good job. |
pmota
the muppets RED.OverLord
2
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
If you are war dec'd and you don't feel ok being in a war dec'd alliance, why would moving to another corp/alliance be considered a exploit in the first place... ? I applaud CCP for finaly allowing the obvious. For those wannabee pseudo-pvp'ers who are crying about this change, come to 0.0 if you want to fight. Fighting is not ganking a hauler...
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
1
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
pmota wrote:If you are war dec'd and you don't feel ok being in a war dec'd alliance, why would moving to another corp/alliance be considered a exploit in the first place... ? I applaud CCP for finaly allowing the obvious. For those wannabee pseudo-pvp'ers who are crying about this change, come to 0.0 if you want to fight. Fighting is not ganking a hauler...
Oh good grief, not everything in EVE is about 0.0 and not everyone uses the war-dec mechanic for cheap indy kills.
Also: as a member of a 0.0 PvP alliance, are you *really* advocating that PvP be *consensual* even if it is in empire space? |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
649
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Just so Im sure I understand: Are you saying that a corp that has been war decced can increase the cost of that war from 2 million to 50 million by joining an alliance? What if that alliance already has a war, does the cost of this new one go up to 100 million?
Yes, and yes - it may cost 2M for the initial war, but joining an alliance transfers the war to the alliance, and the next bill generated will take this into account, including any other wars declared on the alliance.
War Bill = ( 2 if both parties are corporations OR 50 otherwise) * ( highest ( number of non-mutual wars declared on defenderOR number of non-mutual wars declared by attacker) + 1 ) Million ISK/Week Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Shei Hullud
Kosher Nostra
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
So to make things clear, highsec will become even safer now, which in turn will make carebears/fat industry corps/macro miners/multiboxers do anything they like, like, like swarming ice fields and finishing it in a day's break, getting gajillions of isk and making tier 1 battleships cost 10mil... Well good job on ruining the system completely.
Then i predict that highsec will become so safe, that pvp will be restricted and the only pvp you'll get is in low sec which is now a blob generator, and 0.0... which is not pvp... there is no pvp in 0.0, there's just something going on there, and no one sure what, but russkie botter alliances can tell you much more.
Making macro mission running/mining seems legit now, and why not? if my bots being wardecced i can drop/join fake alliance whatever.
I dont see how that benefits eve, im sorry, but i just cant see that |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
35
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
The reactions are mixed, as expected. However, lifting those rules is only the first step. We know that the current war mechanics leave a lot to desire (which is one reason those rules were set down in the first place), and there will be more to come in this regard. When exactly, this I sadly don't know, but lifting those rules will give us a better view on the various loopholes that exist within the mechanics (for both, attackers and defenders).
Having said that, if you have ideas on how to improve war mechanics and make them more sound and useful, it probably is a good time to create (or revive) according threads on the Features and Ideas Discussions forum in this regard. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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Iam Kikas
Aces -N- Eights
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 17:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well, based upon the current calendar of events leading to this point now, we can expect resolution in 2014? Will be interesting to see if the slow death that Eve has been experiencing in the past year will be complete by then. |
Jennifer Celeste
The Dark Horses.
2
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Posted - 2011.10.11 17:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
so then if "allianc hopping" is allowed to AVOID a dec, surely I can join a corp while sitting in a target's mission and shoot him right?
Or is this still an exploit? If youre going to change one rule, you better sure as **** change all the rules. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
19
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Posted - 2011.10.11 18:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
While I can appriciate the work load enforcing the old rule put on the GM department, releasing this ruling without ammending the game mechinics, or even releasing a concrete plan to do so, is a serious mistake in judgement. |
Viqer Fell
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 18:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Wow what an appalling choice.
Is this how you force people to 0.0? By making the empire fighting purely consensual (barring the odd gank)
I am so glad I no longer play in empire, Merc wars were hard enough to prosecute without the formal sanction of corp hopping etc and all other associated gheyness.
Doesn't really impact on me but it still makes me think that it's a **** choice. |
Renegade
Solar Revenue Service TAXU
1
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Posted - 2011.10.11 18:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
While I agree its a poor desicion I am not sure what it changes.
Everytime I have petitioned anyone doing this sort of thing I get the standard 'go away I can't be bothered dealing with this' reponse.
Business as usual as far as I see it.
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ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
17
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Posted - 2011.10.11 18:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:The reactions are mixed, as expected. However, lifting those rules is only the first step. We know that the current war mechanics leave a lot to desire (which is one reason those rules were set down in the first place), and there will be more to come in this regard. When exactly, this I sadly don't know. Then dont bloody change the mechanics before you have an idea how the new mechanics should be
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
30
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Posted - 2011.10.11 19:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Oh wow is CCP trying to kill this game? Thats the only feeling im left with now after every decision they make these days.
Do you guys get together and say HOW can we make the game worse each day?
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
62
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Posted - 2011.10.11 20:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Being in a CORP -or- ALLIANCE shouldn't be a given ... if they dont want to be dec'd ... stay in an NPC corp
PROBLEM SOLVED with out alienating anyone
-á-á-á-á-á-áThank You,
-á-á-á-á-á-áThe Pitboss -á-á-á-á-á-áAlliance Executor -á-á-á-á-á-áThe 0rphanage [AD0PT] |
SniffSniffSniff
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 20:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:While I can appriciate the work load enforcing the old rule put on the GM department, releasing this ruling without ammending the game mechinics, or even releasing a concrete plan to do so, is a serious mistake in judgement.
You have single handidly killed gameplay for small merc corps and alliances.
Not really. Your targets have been evading you by dropping corp for a very long time. No more hisec POS bashes perhaps, but given your decs on all the major alliances, I suspect you have plenty to keep you entertained in 0.0.
The PitBoss wrote:Being in a CORP -or- ALLIANCE shouldn't be a given ... if they dont want to be dec'd ... stay in an NPC corp PROBLEM SOLVED with out alienating anyone If you want to PvP go to 0.0 or losec. There! Problem solved.
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Velora Nyleve
Supernatural Penguins
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 21:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dumb change.
Won't really impact anything, as this exploiting is already standard for many (particularly POS owners), but the message it conveys to those of us who play for "the sandbox" is terrible. EVE should always be a game of risk vs reward. Empire is far too safe already (break it up into small islands surrounded by lowsec, etc, yo).
If people don't want to deal with wars, they already have the "safe" option of sitting in an NPC corp. If they want the perks of a "real" corp (0% tax, pos anchoring, standing boosting, etc), then it's only right they expose themselves to a degree of risk (that they can't dodge with a couple of clicks), to compensate for their increased means to generate income.
I appreciate there may be further changes planned, etc, but I don't think legalising it was neccesary. There should already be mountains of information on the subject, given it never stopped. |
TS5P
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 21:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Oh wow is CCP trying to kill this game? Thats the only feeling im left with now after every decision they make these days.
Do you guys get together and say HOW can we make the game worse each day?
Totally agree.
Quote:There were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path. Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. CCP HELLMAR
But the poor decisions continue. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 21:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
someone explain to me in simple terms what this means, I am unfamiliar with empire wardec mechanics |
Blackcamper
The Condemned and Convicted
4
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
Well. I see ways that is can be done to serve the attacker and defender.
i will say to the player's that say " go to low or 0,0 if you want pvp " YOU MAD. so the guy the get gank in a ice belt and lose his orca and macinaw. well no longer have the change to get back at the person the kill him or hire merc's to do the job.
I know that many corps in hi sec are just war dec to get easy kill's, but some of us like to help out the guy the got gank.
So when you get them to move out of hi sec and in low or 0,0. then i'l be out of the job as a merc.
And i have live in 0,0 and i know that it is carebare haven out there.
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Viqer Fell
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
It means that people or corps who persistently avoided wars by various mechanics and who would have been stopped from doing so under the previous "rules" now can freely avoid wars.
One impact for example is that this essentially makes all high sec pos's invulnerable for the corps who have a clue.
As eve has changed over the years Empire has more and more become a refuge for people with alts to earn isk safely and without risk whilst having their pvp character in 0.0.
Eve was never about being safe and it was never about making empire the area for alts and 0.0 for pvp. It was always about different types of pvp and different types of isk earning.
What we really risk here is the true formalising of the idea that empire is a safehaven (ignoring ganks) as it now gives carte blanche for people to simply avoid pvp if they don't fancy it and yes it's bad enough already (to the point where it's pathetic).
Whilst I acknowledge there were a lot of people using the war mechanics to try and beat up younger corps, before this became prevalent the war mechanic was a well used tool for people with grudges and for professional mercenary organisations. With no real solution or mechanic to replace what we have now the system truly becomes broken and today's announcement simply gives the broken mechanic a seal of approval.
This mechanic has been broken for longer than Capital Ships, longer than Factional Warfare's issues and longer than engine trails. Ok maybe that last one is a fib but it does show that the war dec system has needed reinforcing for a good 4-5 years and then some.
CCP should not endorse a paradigm shift from their original plans to ensure that "You should not be safe anywhere in EvE". This change is as close to that as they get and that to me is an ill-considered move.
With all the hoohah recently and with Hilmar's heartfelt letter to the community I would hope that someone somewhere may actually rethink this decision and ask themselves what benefit it offers. Either that or make a decision on how they want wars to work and implement it.
CCP spent almost 2 years equivocating about bookmarks before finally deciding to do something about it and suddenly the eureka moment of warp to 0 occured. We need similar focus on fixing this mechanic not another 2 years of flogging dead horse idea threads and lot's of arguments over why CCP made hi sec pos's quasi-unkillable. |
sukmanobov
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
3
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
Quote:Re: Thought you should know .... From: sukmanobov Sent: 2011.10.11 22:21 To: The 0rphanage,
Thats fine my alt now have perma app into RPNT. next time he warps next to a target i simpley accept the app piont the "target" and kill him then drop corp. It works both ways!
PS. if goons or test have 5 dec's (costing 3/400mill) going i'll just make them the last dec there is no diffrance. they'll soon get bored of spending 500mill each week to keep from being decced.
Thought you should know .... From: The PitBoss Sent: 2011.10.11 20:44 To: The 0rphanage,
Thank CCP for making my killing easyer! I need a fresh refill of my tear glass on with the trolling. |
pmota
the muppets RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Alex Tremayne wrote:pmota wrote:If you are war dec'd and you don't feel ok being in a war dec'd alliance, why would moving to another corp/alliance be considered a exploit in the first place... ? I applaud CCP for finaly allowing the obvious. For those wannabee pseudo-pvp'ers who are crying about this change, come to 0.0 if you want to fight. Fighting is not ganking a hauler...
Oh good grief, not everything in EVE is about 0.0 and not everyone uses the war-dec mechanic for cheap indy kills. Also: as a member of a 0.0 PvP alliance, are you *really* advocating that PvP be *consensual* even if it is in empire space?
Mate, I agree not everything in Eve is 0.0 and I don't know how you can read I advocate anything consensual regarding PvP (unless for my poor English).. It is exactly because not everything in Eve is 0.0 that I agree that a player that wants to play it safe should have a way of doing so, in hi sec space. That's the whole reason for hi sec to exist imho.
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Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
So empire is now safe from Wardec's then?
There had damn well better be a massive overhaul of WD mechanics after this. I don't even live in empire and this upsets me. This is not supposed to be a safe game, and WD's was one of the things that prevented Empire being 'happy carebear land'.
Stop this slope of making empire the land of protected. It's getting worse and worse.
Also is this going to effect leaving and rejoining wardec corps to 'gank then leave'? Or are you going to leave THOSE restrictions in place, and **** it over completely? |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
86
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Beyond stupid. I haven't the words. Can we hear from a dev on this? DO YOU EVEN REALISE WHAT THIS MEANS?
* Every POS in highsec is now immune. Hooray for that. Shall I go to lowsec and resea... NO! Not when I have an immune highsec POS! * Every corp can avoid all wars, with a hugely disproportionate cost of even TRYING to chase that war * You have just made PVP opt in ... OPT IN(!!!!!!!!) in a game that is meant to be a ******* sandbox.
The only people you can now declare war on, are people who don't know how to protect themselves, or can't afford to setup alliances.
Well done CCP, you've protected carebears so they can grind in peace, whilst ensuring every ACTUAL highsec wardec is against noobs.
HOW ******* STUPID |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
67
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Posted - 2011.10.11 22:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
Man... talk about two steps forward (supers) and one step back (wardecs)...
So why even have the wardec mechanic at all if there's a fairy land region in eve. Nobody cares about wardecs in null or lowsec really... they just go to war. War decs were DESIGNED for empire... and now a war dec is a 24 hour inconvenience?
Whatever. ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
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