Vargur has 50% falloff bonus, which gives pretty sick range to autocannons. Use them.

has anyone mentioned to you that an AC vargur gets the same sort of range in falloff that an AM using rail kronos gets in optimal?

also shield tanked paladin?
fit tachys and a LAR

otherwise yes the vargur cannot fit the largest t2 guns without help.. there are a few ships like this
T2 tachys to t1 bs,
a few of the t2 artiy ships

so wat?

Awesome that rly doesn't explain why is it completely useless with long range configuration like other marauders,more to the point any other ship that have falloff bonus don't suffer pg gimp ie it can fit both type of weapons..like machariel and even basic t1 non pirate ships.

Also your comment shred non light on an issue here,and issue is why?

you could and you cant are two different matter i am sure you understand this.

Who would use artis on a Vargur?

This is like complaining a Mael doesn't hold as many drones as a Domi.

With such a huge falloff bonus, it's obvious that the ship designers were focused on ACs, therefore having the powergrid to mount artillery wasn't a requirement. /rp

Given the reduced DPS of artillery, I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with artillery on a Vargur, unless there was some need for an alpha strike?

Vargur just cant.

Can you explain the reasoning behind the paladin fitting that you linked there? its lacking in its racial tank type and you would note that tach fits there also kind of dont work.

however, there are fittings that you can do to fit 1400mm aritlleries, that reach 200km. with t2 gear (before implants)
are you arguing that a ship does more dps at any given range then another? or that a fitting is possible/not possible? I cant really tell what your issue is anymore
other then you dont like to fit vargurs intelligently.

you are wasting 3 slots on pg that's terrible,you are missing at least 2 tracking mods,you dont have dmg control/extenders and u will got alphad and everybody will laugh.


And why you dont have dose things...because you are wasting slots on PG mods!!

And you clearly dont know about what i am talking about.

My freighter would love to disagree. Its an industrial type ship and it cant even fit cargo expanders or cargo rigs.

Hey everyone,

It seems quite simple. The OP is just trying to show that of the 3 turret based Marauders, all can fit the largest, most power hungry guns except the Vargur.

A Kronos can fit 4 425MM railguns, which alone puts it at 55.44% PG
A Paladin can fit 4 Tach 2's, which alone puts it at 88% PG
The Vargur, with 4 1400 Howitzer 2's, hits 130.33% PG

That is just guns.

Yes the fit examples the OP chose are stupid IMO. But they are just showing that the paladin and kronos can be fully fit with the largest available guns, while the vargur goes way over PG with just the guns and nothing else.

Now I can't tell you what this means in terms of usefulness. In many circles I always hear how the vargur is one of the best of the marauders, despite the fact that it cant easily fit 1400mm arties.

Hey everyone,

It seems quite simple. The OP is just trying to show that of the 3 turret based Marauders, all can fit the largest, most power hungry guns except the Vargur.

A Kronos can fit 4 425MM railguns, which alone puts it at 55.44% PG
A Paladin can fit 4 Tach 2's, which alone puts it at 88% PG
The Vargur, with 4 1400 Howitzer 2's, hits 130.33% PG

That is just guns.

Yes the fit examples the OP chose are stupid IMO. But they are just showing that the paladin and kronos can be fully fit with the largest available guns, while the vargur goes way over PG with just the guns and nothing else.

Now I can't tell you what this means in terms of usefulness. In many circles I always hear how the vargur is one of the best of the marauders, despite the fact that it cant easily fit 1400mm arties.

in my first post i asked a question and linked pictures to show about what i talk about but thread instead turn in my vargur works as AC boat in missions..who the hell asked you does your vargur work or not?

It can,t fit both type of guns that's the point(feel free to point me in ship description where it say it is AC boat only) other marauders can,so far in game that i know about this is biggest fitting imbalance i found..and all i got in response is my vargur work with AC!?!! and that is answer to why..seriously?

Hey everyone,

It seems quite simple. The OP is just trying to show that of the 3 turret based Marauders, all can fit the largest, most power hungry guns except the Vargur.

A Kronos can fit 4 425MM railguns, which alone puts it at 55.44% PG
A Paladin can fit 4 Tach 2's, which alone puts it at 88% PG
The Vargur, with 4 1400 Howitzer 2's, hits 130.33% PG

That is just guns.

Yes the fit examples the OP chose are stupid IMO. But they are just showing that the paladin and kronos can be fully fit with the largest available guns, while the vargur goes way over PG with just the guns and nothing else.

Now I can't tell you what this means in terms of usefulness. In many circles I always hear how the vargur is one of the best of the marauders, despite the fact that it cant easily fit 1400mm arties.

Paladin generally requires a fitting mod to be able to fit a tank.

Cant comment on Kronos as I don't fly it.

Vargur doesn't need arties, with autos it absolutely eats missions.

If OP is suggesting to use a marauder in pvp, then troll successful.

First, let us agree that it works fine as an AC boat in missions. More than fine, really - it's trivially better than a Rail Kronos (due to tracking, damage type, and range) and Tach Paladin (due to damage type). It's arguably better than the Golem (damage application to smaller targets, lack of painter fiddling, and better range). So, when AC fit it's better than all the other Marauders in their optimal configuration.

That means that you have another reason to want more grid on the Vargur - and that reason is either due to ammo consumption (maybe in WH space?) or due to you wanting to fit more things to an AC Vargur. The argument that you should be able to fit artillery just for the sake of fitting artillery is fallacious and total bunk as far as game balance goes.

You do briefly make the claim that Marauders are under performing in PVE, but don't really back that claim up. Do you think this because of the Mach? That seems pretty niche (and potentially wrong) to me.

-Liang

Ed: I'm not trying to be a **** here, but could you use proper sentences and paragraphs in your response? Coherency of thought would also be greatly appreciated because my trollese is getting fairly weak in my old age.

The Vargur does not need to fit arties in any way.

The OPs example with Tachs could incite a thread similar to this one if one were wanting to be a giant douchebag troll (as the OP is in this thread). So I guess it's best to just say that the Kronos is the only one that can really fit the longest range turrets?

-Liang

Blaster Kroni problem is Vindicator it is just better pvp/pve doesnt matter.

Sadly for you there is thing called inc,s and wh rats where dmg type is irrelevant and tracking is used on proper targets and range so it is worked with and both of dose ships(kroni,pali) will outperform AC vargur in alpha and overall dmg.(and if you think that short range Vargur can outperform NM or god forbid Vindicator with uber webs you don't have clue about incursions even mach will outperform it like no one business).

this is my 5th language and i do play game atm so bare with me..will edit shortly for more points.

You assume much and assumption is mother of all frackups so they say i rly don't give a shiet about more pg for AC vargur..i want Artys on my vargur sry to disappoint there.

Pve is not missions anymore and marauders suffer even further because it and varg is locked in AC without Huge investment in PG that's not ok.

Blaster Kroni problem is Vindicator it is just better pvp/pve doesnt matter.

And Vindicator will roflstomp varg ...NPC use traversal and mwd Vindi will end up applaying more dps due to webs that will stop target and then it is let me just apply this 1700 dps in you face against Vargur ~900?

Using a blaster Vindicator in wormhole content (which you bring up) is absolutely ********. The AC Vargur is superior in every possible way.

-Liang

Ed: Actually, maybe a blaster Vindi does alright in high level C5/C6 wormholes with capital escalations. I'm sure all the rats spawn on top of you and you're not webbed to **** and never able to apply any DPS.

Honestly, my advice to you is to ask for what you actually want. If you want to say that the Vargur (and hopefully Marauders in general!) need a boost for PVP then I'm sure you won't see a whole lot of push back for that. But really, just say so. The whole argument that there's this PVE hole that you can't fill with the Vargur because you desperately need 1400 Artillery with no fitting mods seems really weak (at best).

-Liang

And mine is they all can use skilled weapons and varg cant due to pg blocking it and even if it is not the case 1400mm varg couldn't be better than tach due to low dps low tracking and not much of optimal where tach paly choose what to shoot and when.

... all about incursions and no other kind of PVE content ...

Liang there is nothing wrong in asking that t2 ship fit t2 guns i would be here bitching for kroni/pali or golem if that was case.

i fly mach/vindi/bhaal/kronos/vargur

Saying that vargur is best or that i want it to be is well trolling it cant out dps many ships it cant out track many ships it cant out run many ships and making it able to use t2 guns like rest of em wont change that.

prove me wrong.

"Then get to bitching about the Paladin." as soon they nerf it pg il be there shaking fist and mention cancel all my accounts.

There you go with this "I think" business but have no numbers or EFT fits or anything to back it up.

-Liang

I'd like to see a slight grid boost for Vargur so it can comfortably fit 4 ACs, XL booster, and prop. Doesn't need to be anywhere close to fitting 1400s.

But... it's already able to do this

It barely fits with ab as prop, no cap booster. It doesn't fit with ab with cap booster. It doesn't fit with mwd.

A medium cap booster t2 will fit even with ab and a projectile rig fitted ( yes, without rig skill to lvl 5 ) , and its enought to cap stable

About the MWD you need to spend money in low fit DED moduleds and ok it doesn't fit with the cap booster

Ofcourse Vargus is small on fits, or RR/cap transfers will make it too much dualboxed easy "i will button" and its already close


Hula

Like pvp and wh content as well as incursions where arty boats are staple ship in all reality.

Woah woah woah woah, stop right there.

Arty's are most definitely not staples in wormholes. In fact outside of a few very tiny niche roles they are a terrible choice for wormhole pve as a whole. As for pvp, artillery is the worst choice you could make for a battleship or any ship in wormhole space really. Even more so with a shiny thing like a vargur.

You sound upset and ignorant

Nobody forcing you to use artys fit lollypops and shoot that if you feel the need as long as you have ability to do so i am fine with it,

Vargur cant use t2 artys and that is my issue so you can flush your 5 irrelevant points and don't be plain just because you cant and in all truth didn't use arty on vargur it doesn't mean that it don't work news flash there is pve beyond realm of doing l4

Vargur is brutal arty boat you tool but it is nerfed long time ago before all weapons get their upgrade as well as some ships and i think for amount of skils for ship and guns there should be reward for player of actually using those skills..wait for it..................

LIKE every other ship of its class or pirate ship for that matter or faction ship for that matter or possibly good chunk of basic t1 battleship for that matter.

So we are on different sides here i want for ship to be able and you don't ..because of your 800working in plex /L4 / whatever totally not the point,point is you are blind looking at my first post because you are oh so pro AC user lol give me a brake.

Thanks bye!

Also quickly. I see your mach vs. vargur post there... Vargur makes up for it with T2 resistances Mach won't ever get that baseline shield resist. Again apples to oranges... Vargur doesn't equal mach and mach doesn't equal vargur...

You are right but i am talking about fitting ships nothing more so you are wrong again..i don't care what mach is or is not..but fitting ships is pretty much universal we seems to agree on that part.

Also mach doesn't need to have same rez it have extra shield extender in hit points to boot its not like it suffers in any way,god forbid that is.


So lets just compute this for you almost all battleship are able to use both weapon types when you put your advanced skills to boot + some help with implants that include marauders..but vargur does not because it is marauder?erm it is marauder sub class of marauders?is it OP everyone and their mother fly it in PVE or PVP?Will it become king of either if it was allowed to be proper ship?

Nope. it will not..so you think Vargur just need to be AC boat because of because? awww that's cute.

I thought this thread was dead, w/e

Im curious to how you all want to fit your 1400 arti vargurs,
That tachy paly always makes me cringe a little but then i laugh, its insane.
i love it, really.
The op's tach paly fitting
[Paladin, New Setup 1]
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

heres the comparable vargur fitting
[Vargur, Vargur fit]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
Small Tractor Beam II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Ancillary Current Router I

the tracking for the 1400 is 0.00069 worse then the palys tachs
no implants are used for either fittings.

Vargur
10391 volley 627 dps @33x66 , 94,339 ehp (16063 shield) scan res 170

Paladin (from op)
5670 Volley 849 dps @43x41 , 81,546 ehp (14138 shield) scan res 243

Sttill dont know why youd fit a ship like that

Marauders are under performing in PVE(missions and everything else pve) and PVP to pirate counterparts and that is ok?

By all accounts (including CCP) the answer is yes, with the machariel scheduled to get some very slight nerfs.

Ship rebalancing is on its way up the chain and I'm sure after command ships they'll rebalance marauders.

I dont get it, why is it ok that a Marauder is underperforming Pirate BS in PvE?

Whats the reason then for spend time skilling Marauder if they are anyway loosing against Pirate BS?

maybe im just stupid, but i tought its so

Example Minmatar:

Typhoon, Tempest, Maelstrom < Fleet Tempest, Typhoon < Machariel < Vargur

so should it be i tought. whats the reason to skill Tech 2 Ships if they are loosing agains Tech 1 Ship even if they are Faction?

Is Loki or Tengu underperforming Faction Cruiser or the other T2 Cruiser? i dont think so.

I dont get it, why is it ok that a Marauder is underperforming Pirate BS in PvE?

Whats the reason then for spend time skilling Marauder if they are anyway loosing against Pirate BS?

so should it be i tought. whats the reason to skill Tech 2 Ships if they are loosing agains Tech 1 Ship even if they are Faction?

Is Loki or Tengu underperforming Faction Cruiser or the other T2 Cruiser? i dont think so.

Maybe I should train Marauders 5 on Liang... >:-)

-Liang