Sigh... I guess you simply never noticed how much I loved flying my Drake. Those days are gone, now, of course.

Is the textual diarrhea known as "Tiericide"


Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM. Now, all that ship variety we used to have has been reduced to a bunch of different reskins of the exact same ship - just orbit and hit F1. Literally the only "Choice" left is whether we want to hear lasers or projectile sounds.

Now, with Retribution 1.1, CCP nerfed some of the last two effective small gang PVP platforms left in the game: the Drake and the Hurricane. These ships had the right combination of tank and damage that a good pilot could pick off stragglers from a blob. The Cane's loss of a utility high means that it's now incapable of dealing with fast tackle, and the drake flies like a brick now.

And finally, as if the prior changes weren't enough, CCP is planning on nerfing offgrid links. Good luck trying to outmaneuver a blob now.

I'm slightly sympathetic, despite the hyperbole. Skillful pilotting of a ship which conventional wisdom says is poor is a great thing for getting people to engage you in solo and small gang PvP and with the improvements in so many ships there are fewer such niche ships. However with so many more "good" ships there should be more people who are confident enough in their own ship to take a few risks - The two sides of the equation don't quite balance but I don't think it's exactly dire...




Wait... what???
I thought this was a thread about player skill, getting fights and the underdog over the FotM...

I'm pretty sure that no amount of Drake love can excuse the random crap you guys are spewing all up in this thread. But while we're on the topic: why can't you use the Drake now? I'm seeing it being 20m/s slower with the same tank and more DPS. What's the problem?

-Liang

I'm not sure how you're getting the "same tank" since the Drake got a flat out reduction to its base HP. It is also not only slower but less agile (more massive) and thus far more poorly suited for small gang PvP. On top of that, the "higher damage" claim is only applicable if you use HAMs, which is an exceptionally bad idea when fighting outnumbered, as it means you are probably close enough to not have any route of escape, and will likely just die an embarassing death. HMLs on the Drake are now worthless. Not only do they do significantly less damage, but the "buff" that Fury missiles received also made them be as bad at hitting things as torpedoes are, cutting off the only way to get even close to the same performance.

So, yeah, i'm really enjoying this "buffed" Drake.

I'm not sure how you're getting the "same tank" since the Drake got a flat out reduction to its base HP. It is also not only slower but less agile (more massive) and thus far more poorly suited for small gang PvP. On top of that, the "higher damage" claim is only applicable if you use HAMs, which is an exceptionally bad idea when fighting outnumbered, as it means you are probably close enough to not have any route of escape, and will likely just die an embarassing death. HMLs on the Drake are now worthless. Not only do they do significantly less damage, but the "buff" that Fury missiles received also made them be as bad at hitting things as torpedoes are, cutting off the only way to get even close to the same performance.

So, yeah, i'm really enjoying this "buffed" Drake.

What I don't get is they nerfed the dual neut cane into the ground because it was "unbalanced" then tweaked the cyclone so it can do 600dps with dual neuts with plenty of mobility and serviceable tank (and in the hands of the right pilot will utterly destroy a cane 1v1 due to being able to apply full dps from enough range the cane is losing dps to falloff)... really don't see the need to nerf the cane down as far as they have.

-- HAM Drake --

It's called "Retribution" for a reason...

It's called "Retribution" for a reason...

Remember how I said it's all "Approach, F1" nowadays? Yeah...

I just wonder if they realise what they've done to the cyclone given the rhetoric used to justify nerfing the cane when the new cyclone can be fitted out in the exact way that rhetoric was aimed at.

I just wonder if you realize how stupid you look, or if you're gonna wake up in the morning with that "Whoa, what the **** did I do last night?!" feeling.

-Liang

I wonder what's going to be "OP" next. Ooh, ooh! Maybe the Abaddon will lose its tank bonus for one of those useless cap usage bonuses. We already know the Typhoon is getting turned into an "Approach, F1" brick that takes no skill to fly.

There was very specific comments made about the cane hinting towards a fitting doctrine that was supposedly over powered for a BC regardless of tier, etc. and used to justify the need to put it in its place... but post patch the cyclone can be made to fit (which it couldn't before) the very role they were claiming was the reason for putting the cane down. I find it a bit confusing.

You seem to have this dramatic aversion to all things missile. So, tell us about this non-F1 Drake fit you had.

It's ok hun. It'll all be ok and better in the morning dearie.

/pat pat

-Liang

Can only assume your completely missing the point of what I'm saying as the responses aren't in any way an appropriate one.

The two ships are so dissimilar as to be quite astounding. The Cane is a gun ship with all of the advantages that it brings. The dual neutralizer setups were quite hard on close range frigates, but were otherwise mostly useless. Notably, if you were in range to be using the neutralizers you were dealing ~700-800 DPS. On the flip side, the Cyclone tops out at about 500 DPS @ 15km and has terrible projection against frigates.

The two are worlds apart.

-Liang

Ed: Now that I've showed you how you're a complete ******* ******, do you want to stop poasting about how stupid you are? That'd be great. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: (OK it doesn't apply damage quite as effectively against small stuff as the cane used to be able to do with dual webs but its not so hideously behind it that it makes much odds in actual gameplay).

You bring this dual neut Cyclone to Amamake and I'll fight you in a frigate. You won't leave alive.

-Liang

Oh I'm pretty sure I wouldn't leave alive but probably not due to your frig (alone)...

Besides its not the main point of what I'm saying - the cane even post nerf can still do dual web, single neut + turret dps against frigs plenty effectively that wasn't the role that it was getting savaged for.

lol. ccp buffed scrub ships like t1 firgates and cruisers cause blobbers are afraid to fly something that costs more than a few million iskies. why would you even fly a bc or hac now that cruisers are just as good and cost halve or tenth as much. meanwhile, their going to nerf real pvp ships like t3s because scrubs dont have the balls to field something worth that much so they whine intil ccp does something about it.

o7m8s enjoy ur carebear pvp.

So... the Cane is fine now and the Cyclone can't fulfill the role the dual neut Cane did before. Oh... uh, cool. Guess the game designers did know what they were doing afterall.

-Liang

I got a bit side tracked with your silliness about hitting frigs as the cyclone can in this fit still do it fairly well - tho not as well as the cane can - but thats entirely aside from my original point which was a the rhetoric used to nerf a certain fitting style on the cane that has nothing to do with its ability to hit frigs, which it can no longer do and was supposedly unbalanced in a BC yet the cyclone post patch can do it which it couldn't before.