Is the textual diarrhea known as "Tiericide"


Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM. Now, all that ship variety we used to have has been reduced to a bunch of different reskins of the exact same ship - just orbit and hit F1. Literally the only "Choice" left is whether we want to hear lasers or projectile sounds.


Now, with Retribution 1.1, CCP nerfed some of the last two effective small gang PVP platforms left in the game: the Drake and the Hurricane. These ships had the right combination of tank and damage that a good pilot could pick off stragglers from a blob. The Cane's loss of a utility high means that it's now incapable of dealing with fast tackle, and the drake flies like a brick now.

And finally, as if the prior changes weren't enough, CCP is planning on nerfing offgrid links. Good luck trying to outmaneuver a blob now.



First off, Tiericide needs to be scaled back. Way back. Make ships interesting and unique again. Instead of making the Maller just a slower Omen, why not just boost its base armor HP to help it be better at the role it was supposed to fill?

Instead of nerfing the Drake and the Cane, bring up other battlecruisers to their level. Give the Harby a major agility buff and maybe we'll see more than two options for small gangs.

Lastly, instead of gutting boosts and making them pointless, give them some sig bloom so they can be scanned down.


Stop listening to your Goon overlords, CCP. Listen to your core small gang PVPers.

As a drone user I got to listen to months of "HTFU" and "fly a Drake or Hurricane, noob" after we all got put out to pasture by the last patch.

Who's laughing now?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.

As a drone user I got to listen to months of "HTFU" and "fly a Drake or Hurricane, noob" after we all got put out to pasture by the last patch.

Who's laughing now?

Why were the Drake, Tengu, and Hurricane the only small gang PvP ships?

BAZINGA. Trick question. Got you. They aren't the only small gang ships. Plenty of people run small gangs with other ships in their fleets as well.

I think part of the purpose behind balancing them is to remove the stigma that certain ships are the only ones to use for small gang/large gang/random gang warfare and to allow for a greater spread. I may not fly a hurricane since retribution (buffer armor canes are crap/less cool now) but I still fly ships. Adapt or give me your stuff?

Posting in a stealth "I can't get easy kills anymore" thread.

What are you going to small gang roam in? Feroxes? Please.

Don't make me go into the pile of garbage that passes for "working ships" these days. It's all "approach, push F1" or "orbit, push F1". Carebears might whine about PvE getting to be "more like" PvP, but it's really PvP that is turning into PvE. If you like these changes, you probably should just go run some level 4's. You'll find that fun.

It's all "approach, push F1" or "orbit, push F1".

It isn't very stealthy for a stealth thread

I like what they've done so far, the drake and hurricane were good... A little too good. They stated in the dev blog that they couldn't bring all BCs to the level of the drake and hurricane, because that would make the cruisers they just finished balancing pointless again.

They needed to bring them down a little bit, and I'm personally glad they brought the other ones up.

When was the last time you saw a prophecy in game? And the myrmidon can now field 5 heavy / sentry drones, so its actually better than a vexor.

Tiericide is good for EVE, it brings more viable ships to the table, and from what I've seen opens up for a variety of fittings, and not the same old setups we've had for 3-4 years now.

I like what they've done so far, the drake and hurricane were good... A little too good. They stated in the dev blog that they couldn't bring all BCs to the level of the drake and hurricane, because that would make the cruisers they just finished balancing pointless again.

They needed to bring them down a little bit, and I'm personally glad they brought the other ones up.

When was the last time you saw a prophecy in game? And the myrmidon can now field 5 heavy / sentry drones, so its actually better than a vexor.

Tiericide is good for EVE, it brings more viable ships to the table, and from what I've seen opens up for a variety of fittings, and not the same old setups we've had for 3-4 years now.

"Boo Hoo! I now have to think about how these other viable PvP ships might be fit, instead of the four or five cookie cutter fits that were viable for PvP before."

Please do this the next time you see me, it makes my life so much easyer when ships fly directly at my large blasters.

Okay so if everything is so good, tell me: how would you handle a blob if you're solo or in a small gang (5-10 people or less). Oh and don't say "bring links" because CCP are about to nerf those too as part of their crusade to buff the goon blob.

Most people don't seem to realize that manually flying in a spiral to close in on an enemy will bring you much better chances of success han using the keep at range and orbit buttons. ;)

Eh, unless everybody is shooting missiles at you.

Okay so if everything is so good, tell me: how would you handle a blob if you're solo or in a small gang (5-10 people or less). Oh and don't say "bring links" because CCP are about to nerf those too as part of their crusade to buff the goon blob.

Tiericide made the Caracal a beastly killing machine, buffed the thorax, made the stabber better, and made some pretty freaking badass support cruisers
Tiericide Improved the drake's dps, improved the harbinger's dps, took the hurricane down a slight notch to not be the king of small gang pvp go-to ship, and improved the myrmidon's practical dps

why do you believe you should be able to fight a blob solo?

Because skill should mean more than numbers.

:David Attenborough:

And here, we see the FOTM kiddie in its natural habitat, the forums. This one has just lost his ability to hunt with impunity, never needing to rely on his wit nor his skill. Having grown soft when he could hunt with ease, he has realized that he may struggle to hunt, now that he is on a level playing field with the rest of the jungle. His response, as you can see, is to pull out his hair and gnash at the shadows, occasionally screaming gibberish. He may not survive the winter.

Listen to your core small gang PVPers.

Did all the real PvPers leave when I wasn't looking, just to be replaced by blobbing braindead goons?

Calling me a Goon is probably an insult to the goons.

I'm sorry that your orca swapping was nerfed and that you're apparently getting taken to the ownzone by 2 month old players in T1 cruisers, but the blame does not lie with whatever external entity you attribute your own failures to.

You know how I'd approach bringing up the topic of overbuffed T1 logistics for discussion? It doesn't involve ranting and accusing CCP of working for Goonswarm. Unless you honestly believe that we've ever had problems fielding dozens of T2 logis in our fleets (hint: we don't) or reimbursing them (hint: we most definitely don't)

Okay so if everything is so good, tell me: how would you handle a blob if you're solo or in a small gang (5-10 people or less). Oh and don't say "bring links" because CCP are about to nerf those too as part of their crusade to buff the goon blob.

Ugh don't even remind me of the plague of T1 logistics everywhere. Their affordability and easy availability has made them the new "win button" for PvP. They can be fit up for higher sensor strength and almost the same reps as their T2 counterparts, but can appear in ridiculous numbers.

It used to be that a small gang of smart (read: actually skilled) pilots could maneuver around a larger gang, pick off stragglers, etc. To counter this, gangs could go the extra mile and effort (plus risk) of bringing in ewar or logi support -- especially the latter. Now, with the ubiquity of both of these in large numbers of T1 ships, what can the small gang do? Bring their own logi? Their own ewar? More numbers? ... OH WAIT, THAT'S RIGHT! The only counter to a blob is a bigger blob! No skill involved.

lol. ccp buffed scrub ships like t1 firgates and cruisers cause blobbers are afraid to fly something that costs more than a few million iskies. why would you even fly a bc or hac now that cruisers are just as good and cost halve or tenth as much. meanwhile, their going to nerf real pvp ships like t3s because scrubs dont have the balls to field something worth that much so they whine intil ccp does something about it.

o7m8s enjoy ur carebear pvp.

Ed: Also, Petrus... this thread is most unlike you guys. Seriously, it's just ******* stupid.

Ugh don't even remind me of the plague of T1 logistics everywhere. Their affordability and easy availability has made them the new "win button" for PvP. They can be fit up for higher sensor strength and almost the same reps as their T2 counterparts, but can appear in ridiculous numbers.

It used to be that a small gang of smart (read: actually skilled) pilots could maneuver around a larger gang, pick off stragglers, etc. To counter this, gangs could go the extra mile and effort (plus risk) of bringing in ewar or logi support -- especially the latter. Now, with the ubiquity of both of these in large numbers of T1 ships, what can the small gang do? Bring their own logi? Their own ewar? More numbers? ... OH WAIT, THAT'S RIGHT! The only counter to a blob is a bigger blob! No skill involved.



I have no idea where you're pulling this false crap out of.

I can't believe you guys. Did all the real PvPers leave when I wasn't looking, just to be replaced by blobbing braindead goons?

I should just unsub, this game is starting to not be worth it anymore. I'm not paying to be part of a super carebear noob haven of people who like to pretend they "PvP".

Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM.

Sigh... I guess you simply never noticed how much I loved flying my Drake. Those days are gone, now, of course.

Sigh... I guess you simply never noticed how much I loved flying my Drake. Those days are gone, now, of course.

Is the textual diarrhea known as "Tiericide"


Ship choice used to matter. Flying something like a Merlin or a Tristan or a Vexor took skill. Only people who knew what they were doing could do it properly in the face of the FotM. Now, all that ship variety we used to have has been reduced to a bunch of different reskins of the exact same ship - just orbit and hit F1. Literally the only "Choice" left is whether we want to hear lasers or projectile sounds.

Now, with Retribution 1.1, CCP nerfed some of the last two effective small gang PVP platforms left in the game: the Drake and the Hurricane. These ships had the right combination of tank and damage that a good pilot could pick off stragglers from a blob. The Cane's loss of a utility high means that it's now incapable of dealing with fast tackle, and the drake flies like a brick now.

And finally, as if the prior changes weren't enough, CCP is planning on nerfing offgrid links. Good luck trying to outmaneuver a blob now.

I'm slightly sympathetic, despite the hyperbole. Skillful pilotting of a ship which conventional wisdom says is poor is a great thing for getting people to engage you in solo and small gang PvP and with the improvements in so many ships there are fewer such niche ships. However with so many more "good" ships there should be more people who are confident enough in their own ship to take a few risks - The two sides of the equation don't quite balance but I don't think it's exactly dire...




Wait... what???
I thought this was a thread about player skill, getting fights and the underdog over the FotM...

I'm pretty sure that no amount of Drake love can excuse the random crap you guys are spewing all up in this thread. But while we're on the topic: why can't you use the Drake now? I'm seeing it being 20m/s slower with the same tank and more DPS. What's the problem?

-Liang

I'm not sure how you're getting the "same tank" since the Drake got a flat out reduction to its base HP. It is also not only slower but less agile (more massive) and thus far more poorly suited for small gang PvP. On top of that, the "higher damage" claim is only applicable if you use HAMs, which is an exceptionally bad idea when fighting outnumbered, as it means you are probably close enough to not have any route of escape, and will likely just die an embarassing death. HMLs on the Drake are now worthless. Not only do they do significantly less damage, but the "buff" that Fury missiles received also made them be as bad at hitting things as torpedoes are, cutting off the only way to get even close to the same performance.

So, yeah, i'm really enjoying this "buffed" Drake.

I'm not sure how you're getting the "same tank" since the Drake got a flat out reduction to its base HP. It is also not only slower but less agile (more massive) and thus far more poorly suited for small gang PvP. On top of that, the "higher damage" claim is only applicable if you use HAMs, which is an exceptionally bad idea when fighting outnumbered, as it means you are probably close enough to not have any route of escape, and will likely just die an embarassing death. HMLs on the Drake are now worthless. Not only do they do significantly less damage, but the "buff" that Fury missiles received also made them be as bad at hitting things as torpedoes are, cutting off the only way to get even close to the same performance.

So, yeah, i'm really enjoying this "buffed" Drake.

What I don't get is they nerfed the dual neut cane into the ground because it was "unbalanced" then tweaked the cyclone so it can do 600dps with dual neuts with plenty of mobility and serviceable tank (and in the hands of the right pilot will utterly destroy a cane 1v1 due to being able to apply full dps from enough range the cane is losing dps to falloff)... really don't see the need to nerf the cane down as far as they have.

-- HAM Drake --

It's called "Retribution" for a reason...

It's called "Retribution" for a reason...

Remember how I said it's all "Approach, F1" nowadays? Yeah...

I just wonder if they realise what they've done to the cyclone given the rhetoric used to justify nerfing the cane when the new cyclone can be fitted out in the exact way that rhetoric was aimed at.

I just wonder if you realize how stupid you look, or if you're gonna wake up in the morning with that "Whoa, what the **** did I do last night?!" feeling.

-Liang

I wonder what's going to be "OP" next. Ooh, ooh! Maybe the Abaddon will lose its tank bonus for one of those useless cap usage bonuses. We already know the Typhoon is getting turned into an "Approach, F1" brick that takes no skill to fly.

There was very specific comments made about the cane hinting towards a fitting doctrine that was supposedly over powered for a BC regardless of tier, etc. and used to justify the need to put it in its place... but post patch the cyclone can be made to fit (which it couldn't before) the very role they were claiming was the reason for putting the cane down. I find it a bit confusing.

You seem to have this dramatic aversion to all things missile. So, tell us about this non-F1 Drake fit you had.

It's ok hun. It'll all be ok and better in the morning dearie.

/pat pat

-Liang

Can only assume your completely missing the point of what I'm saying as the responses aren't in any way an appropriate one.

The two ships are so dissimilar as to be quite astounding. The Cane is a gun ship with all of the advantages that it brings. The dual neutralizer setups were quite hard on close range frigates, but were otherwise mostly useless. Notably, if you were in range to be using the neutralizers you were dealing ~700-800 DPS. On the flip side, the Cyclone tops out at about 500 DPS @ 15km and has terrible projection against frigates.

The two are worlds apart.

-Liang

Ed: Now that I've showed you how you're a complete ******* ******, do you want to stop poasting about how stupid you are? That'd be great. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: (OK it doesn't apply damage quite as effectively against small stuff as the cane used to be able to do with dual webs but its not so hideously behind it that it makes much odds in actual gameplay).

You bring this dual neut Cyclone to Amamake and I'll fight you in a frigate. You won't leave alive.

-Liang

Oh I'm pretty sure I wouldn't leave alive but probably not due to your frig (alone)...

Besides its not the main point of what I'm saying - the cane even post nerf can still do dual web, single neut + turret dps against frigs plenty effectively that wasn't the role that it was getting savaged for.

lol. ccp buffed scrub ships like t1 firgates and cruisers cause blobbers are afraid to fly something that costs more than a few million iskies. why would you even fly a bc or hac now that cruisers are just as good and cost halve or tenth as much. meanwhile, their going to nerf real pvp ships like t3s because scrubs dont have the balls to field something worth that much so they whine intil ccp does something about it.

o7m8s enjoy ur carebear pvp.

So... the Cane is fine now and the Cyclone can't fulfill the role the dual neut Cane did before. Oh... uh, cool. Guess the game designers did know what they were doing afterall.

-Liang

I got a bit side tracked with your silliness about hitting frigs as the cyclone can in this fit still do it fairly well - tho not as well as the cane can - but thats entirely aside from my original point which was a the rhetoric used to nerf a certain fitting style on the cane that has nothing to do with its ability to hit frigs, which it can no longer do and was supposedly unbalanced in a BC yet the cyclone post patch can do it which it couldn't before.

Ah. Well, take it from someone who can actually fly the ships in question. They're really not the same - at all. The ability for one to fit dual neuts and the other not is just not the kind of issue you're making it out to be. The Cane is fine - no, really, I promise.

-Liang

As a side note, I like the suggestion of boosters having a signature bloom instead of being on grid. There needs to be an added stipulation that they cannot be in a POS to run their boosts though.

lol. ccp buffed scrub ships like t1 firgates and cruisers cause blobbers are afraid to fly something that costs more than a few million iskies. why would you even fly a bc or hac now that cruisers are just as good and cost halve or tenth as much. meanwhile, their going to nerf real pvp ships like t3s because scrubs dont have the balls to field something worth that much so they whine intil ccp does something about it.

o7m8s enjoy ur carebear pvp.

Somehow I see them adapting quite fast

And by adapting you mean that we're celebrating that we don't have to constantly fly the damn things anymore.

Remember how I said it's all "Approach, F1" nowadays? Yeah...

Can only assume your completely missing the point of what I'm saying as the responses aren't in any way an appropriate one. If you actually have something useful to contribute say it.

Don't worry, there will be another FOTM BC any day now.

what you are saying is that kiting nano ships (which are virtually zero risk if flown with a bare minimum of competency) are the epitome of elite pvp.

also that picking on soft targets (stragglers, fleets without recons or logistics, ...) makes you good at pvp.

hearing you loud & clear.

Quit crying and go fly a cyclone. I mean have you seen that thing? It's like the drake a cane of old rolled into one.

That being said, tiericide has done some good to small gangs. T1 logistics for isntance. Cheap and effective.

Best part about this thread is the Damn Cammode guys implying that being in a small gang means you have skill.
Sorry bro, but if your go to ship was the Cane or Drake your 'skill' is automatically under investigation.

Quit crying and go fly a cyclone. I mean have you seen that thing? It's like the drake a cane of old rolled into one.

Been over this before. Logistics ships pretty much make blobs immune to small gang harassment. There used to be some cost and risk associated with this but now, nope. Any t1 shitfleet can have logistics.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.

Can't agree. Drake is not unusable. Neither is the Hurricane.

This is fantastic.

Please do this the next time you see me, it makes my life so much easyer when ships fly directly at my large blasters.

Go try the newly viable ships.

I'm just having a hard time grasping why anyone thinks game balance decisions should be made on the basis of small gang versus large blob combat.

Can't agree. Drake is not unusable. Neither is the Hurricane.

Latest in a long line of small gang PVP nerfs...

what you are saying is that kiting nano ships (which are virtually zero risk if flown with a bare minimum of competency) are the epitome of elite pvp.

also that picking on soft targets (stragglers, fleets without recons or logistics, ...) makes you good at pvp.

hearing you loud & clear.

Truly. 10/10

I can't believe you guys. Did all the real PvPers leave when I wasn't looking, just to be replaced by blobbing braindead goons?

I should just unsub, this game is starting to not be worth it anymore. I'm not paying to be part of a super carebear noob haven of people who like to pretend they "PvP".

Unusable no - but the cane for instance was one of the least broken ships in the game - making it more clunky to fit so its more inline with the other ships isn't really progress.

Seen the same with weapon systems and other aspects of the game, where stuff thats working as expected for some reason gets downgraded at the same time as stuff thats seriously under-performing getting massaged upwards,,, get the feeling someones so scared of "power creep" they are hazarding on undercutting things than trying to actually balance things. I hate to think what will happen to other long range weapons if they actually ever get to fixing small/medium railguns using spike ammo.

The hurricane was one of the most broken ships in the game specifically because it was laughably easy to fit. Apparently CCP meant it to be an artillery platform, so its AC variations had a ludicrous amount of grid with which to fit largest guns + heaviest tank + dual medium neuts. On top of that, it was as fast as a cruiser with virtually no drawback to being so. If you wanted to pick a ship which was ruining small pvp by overshadowing most of the alternatives, the hurricane would be a good choice.

And it's hardly ruined. It's received a minor agility nerf, lost a bit of utility, and now you have to think about what you put on it and why you want those 425mm ACs rather than 220mms.

I always thought a lot of good things about the Rifterlings, but you just make yourself look bad.

I hope i'm just missing something, but from my perspective it looks like you're whining about having
lost your overpowered ships. And they were overpowered. There's a reason why people used them so much.
It's because they want easy play and not a challenge.

Now you act like the only thing combat is is pressing F1-F8 and hitting orbit/keep at range,
as if YOU were one of the carebears not knowing any better.

Your posts **** me off. I thought better of you. The only thought that now comes up reading your posts is:

Stop whining, noob.
Thanks.

Milton! What are you doing?? Stop!

Got a lol out of this. Please continue.

They were the only ships with proper fittings and attributes to do their damn jobs.

Now they've been nerfed to be the same as the rest of the crap they call for "ships". Why not pull those up instead, hmm?

"guys we were just trolling LOL gotcha"

Eve is not a game about fair fights. Even if you're outnumbered, a skilled pilot (or a small gang) should be able to pick at and weaken/inconvenience/incapacitate a larger gang.

They. Were. Not. Overpowered. They were the only ships with proper fittings and attributes to do their damn jobs.

GǪand making the viable ship decision cover a larger spectrum of ships rather than have everyone + dog in the same two ships means that there will be even more room to make use of your clever decisions (in both ships and fittings and tactics) to pick at the mistakes done by the lesser-skilled.

It means that more skill will be required to put together a well-sorted fleet and make all the parts match up; more skill to provide a full set of counters; more skill to employ said counters at the right time against the right thing; more skill required for every single partGǪ and the monoculture blob will be ridiculously maladapted to all the variations that will come its way (if you're skilled enough to keep them guessing).

It means that more skill will be required to put together a well-sorted fleet...

"guys we were just trolling LOL gotcha"

This was precisely the problem. They made every other battlecruiser in the game obsolete, which is indicative of poor game balance.



Because obsoleting every cruiser in the game by making ALL the battle cruisers over powered would be indicative of even worse game balance than we already had.

We get it - you're pissed because your play style got changed (I won't use nerfed, because that's not an accurate term, if you look at the issue objectively). To that, I will say, in the words of CCP themselves: "HTFU." Adapt or die - it's the Eve way.

I'm actually waiting for this - back pedaling is the most sincere form of admitting defeat.

Tch, you'd deem me a mere troll?

I'll be a Drake pilot till the day I die. 1372 kills in them and going strong.

I am just lamenting the ruin of what used to once be a good ship to now being a second rate piece of trash. Of course I'll "adapt" (geez you guys are like a broken record), but the reason I am complaining is because I do not think adapting is possible after so much performance reduction. I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with OP. It is absolutely unreasonable for the Drake to be nerfed multiple times. What do CCP think it is, a ****** titan?!

The Drake used to be the perfect balance for small gang PvP and now it is unusable. Couple that with the Tengu being kicked into obsolesence , and the Hurricane becoming a pile of you-know-what, I don't know how solo and small gang PvP will survive.

CCP needs to wake up. Don't nerf things that work well just becuase everything else sucks. Buff the things that suck! For example, like happened to frigates.

I am just lamenting the ruin of what used to once be a good ship to now being a second rate piece of trash.

Yes, the fate of the Phantasm is indeed a very sad story. It doesn't particularly have anything to do with making sure both the Drake and the Cane remain very good ships, even when the other BCs are being adjusted to be worth-while alongside themGǪ but so far, it has worked rather well.

Tch, you'd deem me a mere troll?

I'll be a Drake pilot till the day I die. 1372 kills in them and going strong.

I am just lamenting the ruin of what used to once be a good ship to now being a second rate piece of trash. Of course I'll "adapt" (geez you guys are like a broken record), but the reason I am complaining is because I do not think adapting is possible after so much performance reduction. I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

no need to respond

Because skill should mean more than numbers.

They. Were. Not. Overpowered. They were the only ships with proper fittings and attributes to do their damn jobs. Now they've been nerfed to be the same as the rest of the crap they call for "ships". Why not pull those up instead, hmm?

I don't think you've ever fought Rifterlings (you don't show up on our KB), so it's understandable why you wouldn't understand how much the Drake means to us. You should really check it and see what we fight in those "keep at range and F1" Drakes before you level stupid accusations like that.

Tch, you'd deem me a mere troll?

I'll be a Drake pilot till the day I die. 1372 kills in them and going strong.

I am just lamenting the ruin of what used to once be a good ship to now being a second rate piece of trash. Of course I'll "adapt" (geez you guys are like a broken record), but the reason I am complaining is because I do not think adapting is possible after so much performance reduction. I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

I'm not sure how you're getting the "same tank" since the Drake got a flat out reduction to its base HP. It is also not only slower but less agile (more massive) and thus far more poorly suited for small gang PvP. On top of that, the "higher damage" claim is only applicable if you use HAMs, which is an exceptionally bad idea when fighting outnumbered, as it means you are probably close enough to not have any route of escape, and will likely just die an embarassing death. HMLs on the Drake are now worthless. Not only do they do significantly less damage, but the "buff" that Fury missiles received also made them be as bad at hitting things as torpedoes are, cutting off the only way to get even close to the same performance.

So, yeah, i'm really enjoying this "buffed" Drake.

The hurricane was one of the most broken ships in the game specifically because it was laughably easy to fit. Apparently CCP meant it to be an artillery platform, so its AC variations had a ludicrous amount of grid with which to fit largest guns + heaviest tank + dual medium neuts. On top of that, it was as fast as a cruiser with virtually no drawback to being so. If you wanted to pick a ship which was ruining small pvp by overshadowing most of the alternatives, the hurricane would be a good choice.

And it's hardly ruined. It's received a minor agility nerf, lost a bit of utility, and now you have to think about what you put on it and why you want those 425mm ACs rather than 220mms.

I keep coming back to this.
See, here's the problem I have: I check-fitted my primary Drake fitting last night, and found a 50% greater throw-weight with a less than 10% EHP hit, and a less than 5% velocity hit.

My Drake hits MUCH harder now than before. I was even able to dump my comically-expensive BCS units for some T2s, and retain almost all of the firepower buff. It's taken minor losses in maneuverability and toughness. Yes, I'm using HAMs. I was using HAMs before, too. Yes, it means managing your ship more intensely, but that's learnable. You're calling the result 'Trash." I'm looking at it and thinking: "Hmm. Interesting..."

Can't wait to take it out and test-drive it this evening.

I like what they've done so far, the drake and hurricane were good... A little too good. They stated in the dev blog that they couldn't bring all BCs to the level of the drake and hurricane, because that would make the cruisers they just finished balancing pointless again.

They needed to bring them down a little bit, and I'm personally glad they brought the other ones up.

When was the last time you saw a prophecy in game? And the myrmidon can now field 5 heavy / sentry drones 4, so its actually better than a vexor. edit: in the drone department

Tiericide is good for EVE, it brings more viable ships to the table, and from what I've seen opens up for a variety of fittings, and not the same old setups we've had for 3-4 years now.

Edited for being bad at math and conceding defeat to the obvious myrm flyers out there :)

terricide took most of the players choice out of the process of fitting the ships. Most of these ships only have one correct way to be fitted and/or used now - ships are missile ships or projectile ships shield ships, armor ships, etc. . . Possibilities for innovation have been removed/limited.

In case you didnt notice the new FOTM for bc's now is the brutix.

-Liang

No, really?

The Drake needed balancing.

Folks bitching today, in most cases, likely weren't around when the Drake was actually much, much tougher. Not including the far more recent changes to heavy missiles, there was also (if memory serves) a change to the shield recharge rate and another change to it's base shield capacity.

Like it or don't, and I'm a little PO'd myself, it still had to be done. Have a large alcoholic beverage to salute the "Days of Yore" and get over it.

What I find funny about it is he starts off ranting about how "some ships required skill to fly" and then goes on to say that nerfing the two most OP battlecruisers was a terrible idea. Heaven forbid CCP make other stuff viable to fight against his ship of choice.

So basically because two BCs got brought down to be in line with ALL THE OTHER BCS, small gangs have been nerfed.

And because some frigates were underpowered and got buffed, suddenly everything is no-skill "orbit and F1" PVP.

OP is whining because his ship of choice got hit with a nerfbat.

The really hilarious part about this is that it wasn't much of a nerf. From where I sit, it actually looks like a buff: Trade a bit of tank and velocity for the ability to punch much harder in-close. I win.

I didn't notice it at first because of who introduced the thread, but this thread is not actually about battlecruisers.

-Liang

I think someone may be getting what this is all about. Enlighten us, please?

So now that Drakefleet is no longer an option, what do the almighty always-right forum warriors of GD recommend that my corp use for FW roams?

Like it or don't, and I'm a little PO'd myself, it still had to be done. Have a large alcoholic beverage to salute the "Days of Yore" and get over it.

I didn't think it was possible, but... Eve forum users actually are this dumb.

Has anyone even read Petrus's signature since this thread started?

Congratulations, you are Eve Forum User #70344334663945612347 to comment on that. None of the others were able to accomplish their goal either. You lose. Would you like to play again?

-Liang

Yet you persist. I had no idea the real Liang Nuren posted.

So, why yes, yes I would.

-Davion Falcon, Those Once Loyal, Random Caldari turned Minmatar Sympathizer, somewhere in lowsec, New Eden

I enjoyed the Slasher roam you guys did, personally. I think you should have had some people fit MWDs though.

So the Cane and the Drake are replaced by the Cyclone and the Brutix. Same vicious cycle, over and again. The Cane will probably survive, but this will probably spell obsolesence for the Drake. Oh, it can still tank, but what little DPS it had has been nerfed, so it might as well be shelved. What's funny is that people hated it's tank, not it's damage dealing potential, which was barely adequate anyways after the missile nerf.

CCP can't even break their own stuff correctly. *shrugs*

Long live the Cyclone and Brutix.

I know, right? It just seems like some CCP dude lost too many ships to Drakes and decided they were OP.

So the Cane and the Drake are replaced by the Cyclone and the Brutix. Same vicious cycle, over and again. The Cane will probably survive, but this will probably spell obsolesence for the Drake. Oh, it can still tank, but what little DPS it had has been nerfed, so it might as well be shelved. What's funny is that people hated it's tank, not it's damage dealing potential, which was barely adequate anyways after the missile nerf.

CCP can't even break their own stuff correctly. *shrugs*

Long live the Cyclone and Brutix.