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Lord Fudo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
24
   |
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
OP, what do you do in real life? Do you not pay attention to details of contracts? Has anyone ever taught you the saying "If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't true"?
I have a nice sea side home I'd like to sell you in Nevada. I'll give you a great deal on it. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1093
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4739
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.
None of that solves the problem and it actually has the potential to destroy the entire economy of the game. |
Cebraio
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.
I use the margin trading skill on my trade alt for obvious reasons (not scamming). It's quite possible that I don't have enough isk for all open orders, if multiple buy orders get filled on the same day. No thank you, I don't want to be treated like a RMT guy, when I just play the market. Your idea is terrible. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
884
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online. I use the margin trading skill on my trade alt for obvious reasons (not scamming). It's quite possible that I don't have enough isk for all open orders, if multiple buy orders get filled on the same day. No thank you, I don't want to be treated like a RMT guy, when I just play the market. Your idea is terrible.
Unfortunatly most people don't understand the value of this fine skill being used in a 'good way' unless they have done so themselves.And as we know our 'breed ' is not that big in the world of eve as such don't count on many people standing behind the skill itself or understanding it's need as a tycoon trader .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Angelique Duchemin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
What's a Margin Trading Scam?
The Battle of Wizna. Like the movie 300 but with worse odds and the Germans as the attackers. |
Cebraio
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:What's a Margin Trading Scam?
I googled it for you:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942 |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2929
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online.
Neat. A free, infinite ISK fountain. Sounds like a great plan.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jonathon Oday wrote:Well I would if there were some legitimate market for them. Maybe there is that I don't know of? Suggestions welcome.
Well if there is no market for the items you could hold on to them for a bit. Thing about the escrow scammers is once they complete the scam they will do it again, often in a different region. Check out the other trade hubs for the same scam going on, then if you see it what you can do is fill the order for just the amount of escrow the scammer had to pony up. So if his buy order is say 2 billion, fill the order but edit the sale price to say 660 million. Roughly 23%.
|
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Jonathon Oday wrote:Well I would if there were some legitimate market for them. Maybe there is that I don't know of? Suggestions welcome. Well if there is no market for the items you could hold on to them for a bit. Thing about the escrow scammers is once they complete the scam they will do it again, often in a different region. Check out the other trade hubs for the same scam going on, then if you see it what you can do is fill the order for just the amount of escrow the scammer had to pony up. So if his buy order is say 2 billion, fill the order but edit the sale price to say 460 million. Roughly 23%.
|
Haulie Berry
236
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:40:00 -
[71] - Quote
0wl wrote:I'll also drop this tit bit of information, margin trading is also dangerous to the person placing the buy order, it IS possible to get that order to go through and release the equity in it... However I shall not go into the details.
Pretty sure it goes like this:
They still have SOME percentage of the money in escrow. If you can (cheaply) acquire the necessary number of items from somewhere else, you can sell them at a price <= the amount held in escrow for the margin buy.
The minimum escrow % is 24%, so if they have a buy order up for 10 items at 100,000,000 each, for a total of 1 billion, they DO have 240,000,000 in escrow.
If you can get your hands on 10 of those item for less than that, you can sell them to them and manually set the price to <24m each and pillage their escrow. |
Angelique Duchemin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 22:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.
The Battle of Wizna. Like the movie 300 but with worse odds and the Germans as the attackers. |
Haulie Berry
236
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 23:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.
Er... I kind of feel like maybe your understanding of the scam is incomplete. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2929
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 01:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:That's utterly ridiculous. Why would CCP even let us spend money we don't have just to let other people cover the loss.
Having a buy order up != buying any item.
If you try to sell to an order with insufficient funds behind it, the order cancels, and you retain your goods. It's equivalent to getting to the checkout at a store and finding that your Debit Card comes up insufficient funds (minus the mortification).
The scam is the part where the con artist got you to purchase those goods from him at wildly inflated prices.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Surann
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 07:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
welcome to the free market ... i day traded for many years in the US financial markets and this is rampant even there ... fake buy orders flood the tape daily .... |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
14404
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online. It doesn't solve any problem, but it does create one. You've been told this before, when you posted this bad idea.
It also degrade the penalty for RMT. The only one with issues here dear, is you.
Malcanis for CSM 8.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
443
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 10:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP could destroy margin trading scams in one day with just a few lines of code... if they wanted to.
How? You know how when people get busted cheating CCP will knock their ISK account into the negative and force them to work their way back out of the hole?
Allow the same thing to happen when people don't actually have the ISK to cover a margin trade. Their ISK balance is now negative. Have fun getting out of the hole. Oh, and you biomass your toon then the bill gets passed to the next one on the account.
Problem solved. Very easy. If they wanted to.
Sad reality, though, they don't want to. Welcome to Sociopaths Online. None of that solves the problem and it actually has the potential to destroy the entire economy of the game.
+1; When will people learn ignorance is in no way endearing!
PI Profitability spreadsheet
|
Zack Korth
Poked
270
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
thanks! i enjoyed all the tears, i think i'll get some chips |
Athena Maldoran
Special Nymphs On A Mission
123
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
HaHa... Your actually a month old and are crying about margin trade scamming? Hillarious.. |
my alt Semah
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 05:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
My alt has lost 1 bil on a scam and yet in less than a month i have made it back easily it is just you learn from your mistake and move on |
Idicious Lightbane
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
43
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Margin trading scams are generally very obvious if you know what you're looking for, generally follow the rule if it looks to good to be true it most likely is. Why would someone create a contract undervaluing an item that he could sell for more directly on the market? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3628
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Yup, there is a margin trading scam. Now you know how to spot one, as will the people who bother to read the forums.
Edit: and those players with enough common sense to realise that if an offer looks too good to be true, there must be a catch.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
202
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
Honestly, "how to spot a margin trading scam" needs to be in the manual, I am starting to think.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
78
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
Curious anecdote in no way related to the OP:
In my part of the world, largely due to lack of governmental oversight a variety of loan - providing "businesses" offer loans with interest rates almost 4-5 times that of a legal financial institution. They provide loans to startups and small businesses in need of liquid cash, the type that larger banks and finance companies would not consider financing. Now, whenever someone defaults on a contract signed with such below - the - table companies, the companies in question typically resort to hiring thugs to intimidate the defaulter into making good on his promise. At which point said defaulter has learned to run to a local politico, who in turn relates the entire sob story to the local media always keen to take the side of the poor, bullied small man.
I'm acquainted with a few characters behind such operations, and a few of their clients. The clients who made good on their promise have generally held the opinion that even though the interest rates are excessive comparitively, the loans have proven life - saving at times - and that the people providing them are rough but will leave you alone as long as you uphold your end of the agreement. Interestingly, even if they had trouble coughing up the cash for a particular week/month, usually it is probably to negotiate some sort of settlement - Longer period with a reduced interest rate, for instance. Much like any other legitimate financial institution. The loan providers don't view themselves as bad people (who does?) but have also related that many of the defaulters had no serious intention of making good on their promise right from the start. Such providers are doing business, in their own words, and would rather take a significantly reduced profit from giving concessions to the defaulter rather than having to go to the trouble and cost of calling in bully boys on top of losing the entire loan itself.
So basically - Where shady business practices meet unbridled greed, you get lots of finger pointing, no small amount of tears, and little to no assumption of personal responsibility. Usually, from the first one to claim the moral high ground. |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
1835
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Falling for scams it not a new player thing.
Being in channels where I see people get ripped old and young is amazing. I never really understood how it is possible for to fall for them as I watch the convo going.
The only thing I actually hope from this is that people learn from that mistake.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
202
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Falling for scams it not a new player thing.
Being in channels where I see people get ripped old and young is amazing. I never really understood how it is possible for to fall for them as I watch the convo going.
The only thing I actually hope from this is that people learn from that mistake.
Out of curiousity, what is a good policy in this instance? (I ask you because, if anyone knows the dirty side of this game, it's your esteemed self)
I simply tend to go into paranoia mode, and assume that anyone posting in local is a scammer.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2664
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
The ol' margin trading scam. I remember it well.
The only scam I've fallen for ( well I have bought 6.5m shuttles but that's just plain stupidity).
I still don't like that mechanic. The skill is there for no reason but to scam and all margin scams are not that obvious. They can be pretty subtle and for a new player, impossible to catch. They have enough on their plate just trying to learn the basics. Expecting them to understand advanced trading is simply pushing it.
There really should be something in the tutorial about it.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Abraham Nalelmir
FATAL Warfare
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
My first days of EVE... made some good iskies, saw that stupid I'm giving away all my stuff for 1 tritanium and I was about to fall for it if not for the colors on what to take and what to give on that contract
Now, I got natural resistance against any type of scam, not only that tritaium one
Everyone has his first time
Newbie?, want to shoot ships? see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169575 |
Aribeth Fireeye
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:27:00 -
[89] - Quote
Just got back to eve after a long hiatus. I've played sporadically and never for more than a couple of weeks (character from 2003 and around 7 mil sp) but I decided to try it out again. First thing I do, loose a bulk of my very frugal wealth due to this scam...I'm pretty sure Margin trading skill didn't exist when I last played. Oh well, isk lost is a lesson learned. Hopefully I can find a corp that will finance my losses. |
Jimmy Morane
Aurora Novae Aetatis
Expoit This Mf's
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
[quote=Aribeth Fireeye] Oh well, isk lost is a lesson learned. Hopefully I can find a corp that will finance my losses.[/quote
Do you also have an amazon wishlist perchance? |
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