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 NastyLlama    |
Posted - 2003.08.04 14:59:00 -
[91] A grate read, lets hope ccp take the time to sort it out  ================================================== I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates.......... |
 NastyLlama Minmatar |
Posted - 2003.08.04 14:59:00 -
[92] A grate read, lets hope ccp take the time to sort it out ================================================== I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates.......... |
 Evee |
Posted - 2003.08.05 11:07:00 -
[93] Having ships use fuel is a great idea. but I believe it should be taken even further. Imagine these game rules : * Spacecraft can be fitted with different engines. * Different engines require different fuels. * Different fuels have different properties that effect engine performance. * Ships could be equiped with fuel generators/collectors. With these basic rules a whole myriad of gameplay options will open up. Imagine you have a basic rocket thruster mk1 engine fitted to you craft. It requires a duel mix of oxygen and standard rocket fuel. just before setting of on your mining trek you decide to fill up your oxygen tanks and fuel tank with the cheapest grade rocket fuel available brand x. It's rough stuff. Your engine doesn't have a good burn rate and has a high pollution output. this effects the speed of your vessel. You don't mind though as you only need to get close enough to the asteroids to start up your miners and you can switch the engines off for the day. 2 hours into your mining you read that oxygen levels are low, not being fitted with a air-recylcer you decide to head back belch black fumes from your tail pipes. Not wanting to attract the attention of the local authorites for failing emissions you decide to refuel with a high octane perforamnce fuel, Brand oxy8. after replenishing your oxygen tanks you head back out to the fields. this time the plume of smoke has been replace by a long blue flame that is pushing your craft along with additional force. Engines would be standard issue with the craft that you buy, but could later be replaced with other suited engine units. (Small, medium, large engine bays) that offer improvements over the standard unit. Not all engine have to be combustion engines, There are loads of other types that could be thought up - Just watch a startrek epsisode shoud give some idea. but the basic idea is that what ever matter is chucked out the back helps push the vessel forwards. So an engine can kick out anything from magnetically charged particles to accelerated electrons. Types of fuel could be electricity collected from solar sails, Standard fuels, plasma cores.. There just needs to be more variance and choice to make this game feel like a real place. And if you ship does run out of fuel in space then you should have paid more attention to the autopilot warnings. Just hope you remembered to pack your intergalactic AA card  |
 Evee Gallente Aliastra |
Posted - 2003.08.05 11:07:00 -
[94] Having ships use fuel is a great idea. but I believe it should be taken even further. Imagine these game rules : * Spacecraft can be fitted with different engines. * Different engines require different fuels. * Different fuels have different properties that effect engine performance. * Ships could be equiped with fuel generators/collectors. With these basic rules a whole myriad of gameplay options will open up. Imagine you have a basic rocket thruster mk1 engine fitted to you craft. It requires a duel mix of oxygen and standard rocket fuel. just before setting of on your mining trek you decide to fill up your oxygen tanks and fuel tank with the cheapest grade rocket fuel available brand x. It's rough stuff. Your engine doesn't have a good burn rate and has a high pollution output. this effects the speed of your vessel. You don't mind though as you only need to get close enough to the asteroids to start up your miners and you can switch the engines off for the day. 2 hours into your mining you read that oxygen levels are low, not being fitted with a air-recylcer you decide to head back belch black fumes from your tail pipes. Not wanting to attract the attention of the local authorites for failing emissions you decide to refuel with a high octane perforamnce fuel, Brand oxy8. after replenishing your oxygen tanks you head back out to the fields. this time the plume of smoke has been replace by a long blue flame that is pushing your craft along with additional force. Engines would be standard issue with the craft that you buy, but could later be replaced with other suited engine units. (Small, medium, large engine bays) that offer improvements over the standard unit. Not all engine have to be combustion engines, There are loads of other types that could be thought up - Just watch a startrek epsisode shoud give some idea. but the basic idea is that what ever matter is chucked out the back helps push the vessel forwards. So an engine can kick out anything from magnetically charged particles to accelerated electrons. Types of fuel could be electricity collected from solar sails, Standard fuels, plasma cores.. There just needs to be more variance and choice to make this game feel like a real place. And if you ship does run out of fuel in space then you should have paid more attention to the autopilot warnings. Just hope you remembered to pack your intergalactic AA card |
 Drusilla |
Posted - 2003.08.05 17:16:00 -
[95] How about this: Link fuel consumption to CAP use. That reactor is generating power, so work under the assumption that it expends fuel to do so. Every time one docks, their "Fuel counter" is zeroed out. Then when they leave a station, every point of CAP they expend is counted. When they return to a station, they have to pay a fee based on that amount, then their fuel counter is zeroed again. Repeat each time one leaves and then returns to a station. No one will "run out of gas in deep space," because your CAP is infinite, but you would pay for it when you dock. Also, bigger ships would use more CAP for traveling, weapons fire, etc, and so would have higher fuel costs automatically. If the cost was too low for the bigger ships, you could just institue a multiple, like saying a pod has a 0.01 cost multiplier, a shuttle has a 0.1 cost multiplier, a frigate has a 1.0 cost multiplier, a cruiser has a 2.0 cost multiplier, a battleship has a 3.0 cost multiplier, and a titan would have an even larger one. How's that sound? |
 Drusilla |
Posted - 2003.08.05 17:16:00 -
[96] How about this: Link fuel consumption to CAP use. That reactor is generating power, so work under the assumption that it expends fuel to do so. Every time one docks, their "Fuel counter" is zeroed out. Then when they leave a station, every point of CAP they expend is counted. When they return to a station, they have to pay a fee based on that amount, then their fuel counter is zeroed again. Repeat each time one leaves and then returns to a station. No one will "run out of gas in deep space," because your CAP is infinite, but you would pay for it when you dock. Also, bigger ships would use more CAP for traveling, weapons fire, etc, and so would have higher fuel costs automatically. If the cost was too low for the bigger ships, you could just institue a multiple, like saying a pod has a 0.01 cost multiplier, a shuttle has a 0.1 cost multiplier, a frigate has a 1.0 cost multiplier, a cruiser has a 2.0 cost multiplier, a battleship has a 3.0 cost multiplier, and a titan would have an even larger one. How's that sound? |
 Propehcy |
Posted - 2003.08.05 17:51:00 -
[97] Ok, so we all know these are great ideas and would solve a bunch of issues, so im going to give CCP another earfull. btw, im mad a bunch of game issues (corprate theives and Concord) so im going to vent at CCP here. CCP - this entire channel is dedicated so that players can give YOU THEIR ideas, so far i havent seen a single ccp dev or representitive post. Trixxy here is one smart cookie, listen to her, take a hint. im going to restate what i say almost once a day on other posts: Address some of these issues or you're going to be losing suscriptions. Everyone else - i only read the first 5 posts on this thread because im a slow reader and thers 3 pages of posts, so, if i have offened someone, or angerd someone im sorry. but dont tell me about it. Trixxy - Fully agree with almost everything you've said and proposed, it would be just plain stupid if CCP didnt implement some or ALL of your sugjestions, although points 2-5 will/would take alot of game coding to implement so EVEN IF CCP takes your good ideas and decides to put them in the game, it would say it would take 3weeks - 2months before we see any sign of them ingame. My 2cents, Proph Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
 Propehcy Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.08.05 17:51:00 -
[98] Ok, so we all know these are great ideas and would solve a bunch of issues, so im going to give CCP another earfull. btw, im mad a bunch of game issues (corprate theives and Concord) so im going to vent at CCP here. CCP - this entire channel is dedicated so that players can give YOU THEIR ideas, so far i havent seen a single ccp dev or representitive post. Trixxy here is one smart cookie, listen to her, take a hint. im going to restate what i say almost once a day on other posts: Address some of these issues or you're going to be losing suscriptions. Everyone else - i only read the first 5 posts on this thread because im a slow reader and thers 3 pages of posts, so, if i have offened someone, or angerd someone im sorry. but dont tell me about it. Trixxy - Fully agree with almost everything you've said and proposed, it would be just plain stupid if CCP didnt implement some or ALL of your sugjestions, although points 2-5 will/would take alot of game coding to implement so EVEN IF CCP takes your good ideas and decides to put them in the game, it would say it would take 3weeks - 2months before we see any sign of them ingame. My 2cents, Proph Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
 Trixxy |
Posted - 2003.08.05 20:59:00 -
[99] Edited by: Trixxy on 06/08/2003 12:30:15 I will admit, the coding side of things was not at the forefront of my thoughts when making the suggestions, but yes, I can see that a fair amount of work would need to go into them. The difficulty of tracking all this would depend largely on the underlying game coding architecture. As a software developer, I have an idea of the difficulties involved, and do not see them as insurmountable (assuming a vaguely sensible architecture). However, this is why I would like some sort of indication from the Devs as to the feasibility of these ideas. If it's looking to be a no-go, then we can stop wasting our time and try to think of simpler ways to have similar effects. The problem to solve is simple: * We have an unlimited supply with no cost - we have to think of a way to build a cost-of-living/operating in there. * We have an ultimately decreasing demand on material and services. We need ways of continuing demand as the game matures. A lot of nice suggestions in this thread though - many of which may be easier to implement than my original ones. Thanks for all the input/suggestions/thought/time and feedback. . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
 Trixxy Gallente The Chaos Fellowship |
Posted - 2003.08.05 20:59:00 -
[100] Edited by: Trixxy on 06/08/2003 12:30:15 I will admit, the coding side of things was not at the forefront of my thoughts when making the suggestions, but yes, I can see that a fair amount of work would need to go into them. The difficulty of tracking all this would depend largely on the underlying game coding architecture. As a software developer, I have an idea of the difficulties involved, and do not see them as insurmountable (assuming a vaguely sensible architecture). However, this is why I would like some sort of indication from the Devs as to the feasibility of these ideas. If it's looking to be a no-go, then we can stop wasting our time and try to think of simpler ways to have similar effects. The problem to solve is simple: * We have an unlimited supply with no cost - we have to think of a way to build a cost-of-living/operating in there. * We have an ultimately decreasing demand on material and services. We need ways of continuing demand as the game matures. A lot of nice suggestions in this thread though - many of which may be easier to implement than my original ones. Thanks for all the input/suggestions/thought/time and feedback. . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
 Twotwelfths |
Posted - 2003.08.05 23:47:00 -
[101] Let me pump this into your think-tank. You all seem to be on the right track here so I would like to get your thought on how this may effect the market, diversity, and overall gameplay. What if the use of mining lasers were limited to frigates and industrial ships only?? |
 Twotwelfths |
Posted - 2003.08.05 23:47:00 -
[102] Let me pump this into your think-tank. You all seem to be on the right track here so I would like to get your thought on how this may effect the market, diversity, and overall gameplay. What if the use of mining lasers were limited to frigates and industrial ships only?? |
 Propehcy |
Posted - 2003.08.06 00:12:00 -
[103] if mining lasers were only aloud on frigs and indy's it would obliterate mining efficency and feasibility. any miner knows that if you acually want to make good money on a time to money scale, you need a cruiser or bs. frigates simply dont have enough hi slots for it to be worth the effort. It would effect the economy by sending the price on everything through the roof, because it would take forever to mine anything. plus megacyte would jump from around 7.5k/unit to over 20k because frigs are so easy to destroy, plus you would need twice as many players or more mining to replace one or 2 cruisers, 3 or 4 to replace a battleship. im not sure what you mean by diversity, but for overall gameplay, everyone would be spending alot more time automining/mining which would take away from other tasks. it would also kill newbies, since they dont have the capital to adapt. or, acually, might help newbies, a load or 2 of iso would go for alot with mining like that, iso would probably go up to the cost of nox. and triti would probably go up (god forbid) a couple isk/unit. but when we're talking millions of units, that addes up. changing mining like that would only cause more problems, and solve none. But, making differant classes of dedicated miners might be differant, say have a cargo cap of 1-3k with 2-5 turret HP's depending on the level but make only mining beams mountable might be an idea. THAT shouldnt take to much coding, but CCP would have to hire some Graphic artists to render them. my 2cents, Proph Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Propehcy Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.08.06 00:12:00 -
[104] if mining lasers were only aloud on frigs and indy's it would obliterate mining efficency and feasibility. any miner knows that if you acually want to make good money on a time to money scale, you need a cruiser or bs. frigates simply dont have enough hi slots for it to be worth the effort. It would effect the economy by sending the price on everything through the roof, because it would take forever to mine anything. plus megacyte would jump from around 7.5k/unit to over 20k because frigs are so easy to destroy, plus you would need twice as many players or more mining to replace one or 2 cruisers, 3 or 4 to replace a battleship. im not sure what you mean by diversity, but for overall gameplay, everyone would be spending alot more time automining/mining which would take away from other tasks. it would also kill newbies, since they dont have the capital to adapt. or, acually, might help newbies, a load or 2 of iso would go for alot with mining like that, iso would probably go up to the cost of nox. and triti would probably go up (god forbid) a couple isk/unit. but when we're talking millions of units, that addes up. changing mining like that would only cause more problems, and solve none. But, making differant classes of dedicated miners might be differant, say have a cargo cap of 1-3k with 2-5 turret HP's depending on the level but make only mining beams mountable might be an idea. THAT shouldnt take to much coding, but CCP would have to hire some Graphic artists to render them. my 2cents, Proph Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Twotwelfths |
Posted - 2003.08.06 01:56:00 -
[105] Im trying to address the "unlimited supply at no cost" issue by finding an "easy fix". Effectively limiting the supply by hindering the relative ease at which that supply is harvested seems feasible. Since you will have to mine in a very easily destroyed ship, escorts of armed ships will be needed...which is the new "cost of the supply". That cost will also include more members and ships to do what used to be way too easy while still allowing miners to profit. Prophecy said mining would lose its feasibilty, but he also said..."a load or 2 of iso would go for alot with mining like that, iso would probably go up to the cost of nox. and triti would probably go up (god forbid) a couple isk/unit. but when we're talking millions of units, that adds up". Now to address the demand side of the problem. Now with the supply limited and the cost of obtaining that supply much higher corporations will no longer be capable of producing 12 types of ships and 6 kinds of missles and 8 types of other stuff. Manufacturing will have to think along the lines of "how can we best utilize our minerals" versus "let's build 4 of everything". With that in mind, ship profits will soar due to lack of availability again. Everyone is making money  Also I would imagine that since mining will be more "automated" as Prophecy put it, more people will venture out to do some pirate hunting. And if that doesn't increase ship demand (eg. getting killed by npc's or players) I don't know what will!! |
Twotwelfths |
Posted - 2003.08.06 01:56:00 -
[106] Im trying to address the "unlimited supply at no cost" issue by finding an "easy fix". Effectively limiting the supply by hindering the relative ease at which that supply is harvested seems feasible. Since you will have to mine in a very easily destroyed ship, escorts of armed ships will be needed...which is the new "cost of the supply". That cost will also include more members and ships to do what used to be way too easy while still allowing miners to profit. Prophecy said mining would lose its feasibilty, but he also said..."a load or 2 of iso would go for alot with mining like that, iso would probably go up to the cost of nox. and triti would probably go up (god forbid) a couple isk/unit. but when we're talking millions of units, that adds up". Now to address the demand side of the problem. Now with the supply limited and the cost of obtaining that supply much higher corporations will no longer be capable of producing 12 types of ships and 6 kinds of missles and 8 types of other stuff. Manufacturing will have to think along the lines of "how can we best utilize our minerals" versus "let's build 4 of everything". With that in mind, ship profits will soar due to lack of availability again. Everyone is making money Also I would imagine that since mining will be more "automated" as Prophecy put it, more people will venture out to do some pirate hunting. And if that doesn't increase ship demand (eg. getting killed by npc's or players) I don't know what will!! |
Amicus |
Posted - 2003.08.06 02:14:00 -
[107] Good series going here. Thought I would add some ideas on fuel that occurred to me as I was reading through the other posts in the thread. I see two concerns on fuel: (1) that noobs would suffer disproportionately from fuel costs; and (2) what to do with players who run out of gas. Perhaps ships could come with a space-dust cruncher or solar sail to operate as a back-up engine. When you do not have enough isk to pay for a tow, it is time to break out the ôspace oarsö and row. For small ships, like the noob frigate these basic engines might be a reasonable alternative, but still not as good as better fuel burning engines (similar to the civilian hybrid blasters for noobs that do not need ammo, but take forever to kill small things). For larger vessels, these basic engines would lengthen travel times immensely (e.g., 10 m/second thrust). The idea is that such engines should not be used as anything but a last resort for those who foolishly run out of gas without a bank account to pay for towing service. I have to admit my idea here is not nearly as well thought out as TrixxyÆs original post, but it also serves the purpose of bumping the thread along. |
 Amicus Gold Diggers Inc. |
Posted - 2003.08.06 02:14:00 -
[108] Good series going here. Thought I would add some ideas on fuel that occurred to me as I was reading through the other posts in the thread. I see two concerns on fuel: (1) that noobs would suffer disproportionately from fuel costs; and (2) what to do with players who run out of gas. Perhaps ships could come with a space-dust cruncher or solar sail to operate as a back-up engine. When you do not have enough isk to pay for a tow, it is time to break out the ôspace oarsö and row. For small ships, like the noob frigate these basic engines might be a reasonable alternative, but still not as good as better fuel burning engines (similar to the civilian hybrid blasters for noobs that do not need ammo, but take forever to kill small things). For larger vessels, these basic engines would lengthen travel times immensely (e.g., 10 m/second thrust). The idea is that such engines should not be used as anything but a last resort for those who foolishly run out of gas without a bank account to pay for towing service. I have to admit my idea here is not nearly as well thought out as TrixxyÆs original post, but it also serves the purpose of bumping the thread along. |
D'ren |
Posted - 2003.08.06 06:07:00 -
[109] Edited by: D'ren on 06/08/2003 06:09:14 Hopefully if this thread gets long enough a dev will trip over it. Doing my part: I really like Trixxy's take on the state of the game. In addition to improving the economy, I think the suggestions by her and others will have a side benefit alluded to in my earlier posts, i.e., adding a sense of urgency largely missing from Eve. My take on the current situation, based on my experience. I've been playing Eve for maybe six weeks now, soloing, mostly trading. The most dangerous situation I've encountered so far was getting shot up by some NPC pirates about a week in. I was still in the n00b ship, took a risk, got pounded for it. No prob, back on my feet after a visit to the station, found a new route, back to making money. Since then, there have been a few potshots, but rarely more than shield damage; this despite more than a few forays into low-sec or no-sec space. I make money, I buy new items, I train up skills, I find new routes. It's not dull, exactly, but neither am I totally engaged. I guess my quibble is simply that I can do all this at no cost beyond initial costs. I buy my Bestower and the skills to run it and that's it, no worries, no further spending, I just rake in the bucks off pretty safe routes. OK, so I'm not a big risk-taker. OK, maybe I'm just lucky. There are potentially ways to make even the most timid high-sec miner squirm:
Let's keep this crazy train rolling, eventually someone has to notice... |
 D'ren |
Posted - 2003.08.06 06:07:00 -
[110] Edited by: D'ren on 06/08/2003 06:09:14 Hopefully if this thread gets long enough a dev will trip over it. Doing my part: I really like Trixxy's take on the state of the game. In addition to improving the economy, I think the suggestions by her and others will have a side benefit alluded to in my earlier posts, i.e., adding a sense of urgency largely missing from Eve. My take on the current situation, based on my experience. I've been playing Eve for maybe six weeks now, soloing, mostly trading. The most dangerous situation I've encountered so far was getting shot up by some NPC pirates about a week in. I was still in the n00b ship, took a risk, got pounded for it. No prob, back on my feet after a visit to the station, found a new route, back to making money. Since then, there have been a few potshots, but rarely more than shield damage; this despite more than a few forays into low-sec or no-sec space. I make money, I buy new items, I train up skills, I find new routes. It's not dull, exactly, but neither am I totally engaged. I guess my quibble is simply that I can do all this at no cost beyond initial costs. I buy my Bestower and the skills to run it and that's it, no worries, no further spending, I just rake in the bucks off pretty safe routes. OK, so I'm not a big risk-taker. OK, maybe I'm just lucky. There are potentially ways to make even the most timid high-sec miner squirm:
Let's keep this crazy train rolling, eventually someone has to notice... |
 Propehcy |
Posted - 2003.08.06 08:57:00 -
[111] 1st off, why do you guys have to make your posts long? my eyes hurt  2nd, if ccp was smart (which they dont apear to be at the moment) they would have posted here if they saw it, and this whole channel was suppose to be so devs could read what we had to say, so far ive seen ONE post from a dev, and it was on a thread not even worth mention. But anyways back to our rant about what needs to be done ingame. HERE WE GO!  Twotwelfths - although some good ideas, that still doesnt solve one crutial problem: (i dont know how to put it into one word so im going to explain ), Once everyone gets a battleship which anyone with diligance and charisma can do in a month and a half, thats takes away from demend for ships and equip, i dont know if you all noticed (but i just found out today, because i was podded by one) but Battleships are ******* powerful! it takes alot of abuse, cursing, and people to take out a battleship, so once someone has one, they have little demand for anything else, which takes away from the supply and demand thing. Making mining more dangerous would just fruterate newbies all to hell, it was annoying enough not knowing that veldispar was worth ****-all on the open market.The Fuel Angle - cmon guys this is the 200th century! we dont use outdated crap like "fuel" although if it needed to be manufactured from triti or w/e i'd buy that, but just having it as cost would make it burdensum, i mean we dont want to mirror real life, We pay enough for gas as it is! dont need money going into fake fuel as well as real! and besides all that, fuel pollutes, burning all those "fuel atoms" makes space positivly uninhabitable! think of the children! D'ren - i hate you for having a long post, my eyes hurt, but good job on it. I disagree with your first point on ships costing more, they already take weeks of mining to get, dont need those weeks turning into months thx . although your second point is a good one, upkeep would acually count for something, essecially if it opens up a new career path, and "service based" corps, although i think being a "ship mechanic" might be kina boring. Fuel sux (refer to above). im not sure gate tolls would do anything but **** people of for sucking them dry of funds, be cause i make anywhere from 50-150 jumps a dauy, even at 100isk/jump that adds up and it would simple not be needed unless it was empire only space, or 0.0. Having it in empire space would make people go into low sec areas if the price was hi enough, 0.0 - 0.4 would be for paying the gate upkeep, beucase it's not part of empire space, they dont pay for it. BUT! your last point is dead on! eve needs war!! have the syndicate get all*****y and invade someone, have another jovian war, amarr invade minmatar! i dont know, ANY war would be good at this point (m0o vs everyone else?)AND BTW, my post isnt long, it's just "less short" then most of the others  Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Propehcy Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.08.06 08:57:00 -
[112] 1st off, why do you guys have to make your posts long? my eyes hurt 2nd, if ccp was smart (which they dont apear to be at the moment) they would have posted here if they saw it, and this whole channel was suppose to be so devs could read what we had to say, so far ive seen ONE post from a dev, and it was on a thread not even worth mention. But anyways back to our rant about what needs to be done ingame. HERE WE GO! Twotwelfths - although some good ideas, that still doesnt solve one crutial problem: (i dont know how to put it into one word so im going to explain ), Once everyone gets a battleship which anyone with diligance and charisma can do in a month and a half, thats takes away from demend for ships and equip, i dont know if you all noticed (but i just found out today, because i was podded by one) but Battleships are ******* powerful! it takes alot of abuse, cursing, and people to take out a battleship, so once someone has one, they have little demand for anything else, which takes away from the supply and demand thing. Making mining more dangerous would just fruterate newbies all to hell, it was annoying enough not knowing that veldispar was worth ****-all on the open market.The Fuel Angle - cmon guys this is the 200th century! we dont use outdated crap like "fuel" although if it needed to be manufactured from triti or w/e i'd buy that, but just having it as cost would make it burdensum, i mean we dont want to mirror real life, We pay enough for gas as it is! dont need money going into fake fuel as well as real! and besides all that, fuel pollutes, burning all those "fuel atoms" makes space positivly uninhabitable! think of the children! D'ren - i hate you for having a long post, my eyes hurt, but good job on it. I disagree with your first point on ships costing more, they already take weeks of mining to get, dont need those weeks turning into months thx . although your second point is a good one, upkeep would acually count for something, essecially if it opens up a new career path, and "service based" corps, although i think being a "ship mechanic" might be kina boring. Fuel sux (refer to above). im not sure gate tolls would do anything but **** people of for sucking them dry of funds, be cause i make anywhere from 50-150 jumps a dauy, even at 100isk/jump that adds up and it would simple not be needed unless it was empire only space, or 0.0. Having it in empire space would make people go into low sec areas if the price was hi enough, 0.0 - 0.4 would be for paying the gate upkeep, beucase it's not part of empire space, they dont pay for it. BUT! your last point is dead on! eve needs war!! have the syndicate get all*****y and invade someone, have another jovian war, amarr invade minmatar! i dont know, ANY war would be good at this point (m0o vs everyone else?)AND BTW, my post isnt long, it's just "less short" then most of the others Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
 Trixxy |
Posted - 2003.08.06 12:41:00 -
[113] Twotwelfths said: What if the use of mining lasers were limited to frigates and industrial ships only?? I don't believe this will address the core problem of unlimited supply though. In my original post, I was working off the assumption that in-game time does not cost money (as there is no cost-of-living). So by limiting mining lasers to smaller ships or otherwise slowing mining down is not going to address the economy. It's simply going to make it slower and more annoying to mine. Use-based charging (through something like item degradation) is probably the most effective and balanced way to introduce a cost-of-living. That way, if you want to mine fast, you are still free to use a BS bristling with CU Vapours. The result: you get lots of ore very quickly, but the fact that you are using so many of the best mining lasers on the best ship means your running costs will be much higher. The result: your ore will still cost roughly the same amt per unit to mine. So you can't simply dump the stuff on the market at very low prices just because you can acquire it so effortlessly. You will still need to charge some sort of minimum just to cover your costs. But I like the fact that Twotwelfths is trying to think of other ways around the core problems. Some of the suggestions from D'Ren are nice ones. We do have to be careful not to introduce cost for its own sake though - it has to be to alliviate the core problems. We also have to make sure we don't too adversely affect career paths such as trading, where the money-earning potential is already not all that large. . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
Trixxy Gallente The Chaos Fellowship |
Posted - 2003.08.06 12:41:00 -
[114] Twotwelfths said: What if the use of mining lasers were limited to frigates and industrial ships only?? I don't believe this will address the core problem of unlimited supply though. In my original post, I was working off the assumption that in-game time does not cost money (as there is no cost-of-living). So by limiting mining lasers to smaller ships or otherwise slowing mining down is not going to address the economy. It's simply going to make it slower and more annoying to mine. Use-based charging (through something like item degradation) is probably the most effective and balanced way to introduce a cost-of-living. That way, if you want to mine fast, you are still free to use a BS bristling with CU Vapours. The result: you get lots of ore very quickly, but the fact that you are using so many of the best mining lasers on the best ship means your running costs will be much higher. The result: your ore will still cost roughly the same amt per unit to mine. So you can't simply dump the stuff on the market at very low prices just because you can acquire it so effortlessly. You will still need to charge some sort of minimum just to cover your costs. But I like the fact that Twotwelfths is trying to think of other ways around the core problems. Some of the suggestions from D'Ren are nice ones. We do have to be careful not to introduce cost for its own sake though - it has to be to alliviate the core problems. We also have to make sure we don't too adversely affect career paths such as trading, where the money-earning potential is already not all that large. . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
Sundiver |
Posted - 2003.08.06 19:30:00 -
[115] (BUMP) |
 Sundiver |
Posted - 2003.08.06 19:30:00 -
[116] (BUMP) |
Derkan |
Posted - 2003.08.07 02:31:00 -
[117] Well thats really stupid. Putting costs on mining? No one would mine ore. Corperations would go under. I like the idea of just getting rid of the copies better. Making copies have X-amount of uses. Or jack up the prices of Blue prints. Or leave it as is. To many people can get a Moa copy for 15 million. Just get rid of copies. That would fix the market. Less price wars. http://eve-coldfusion.com |
 Derkan Shiva Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2003.08.07 02:31:00 -
[118] Well thats really stupid. Putting costs on mining? No one would mine ore. Corperations would go under. I like the idea of just getting rid of the copies better. Making copies have X-amount of uses. Or jack up the prices of Blue prints. Or leave it as is. To many people can get a Moa copy for 15 million. Just get rid of copies. That would fix the market. Less price wars. |
 Kai Viqtorr |
Posted - 2003.08.07 14:42:00 -
[119] Prophesy, one of the recent Dev Chats commented that they had been concentrating on reading the "Bug Reporting" forums and stuff from the Chaos server, but not getting much further. While we can all appreaciate the need to fix bugs and black hole systems, we all agree with you that this forum should be read by all of CCP on a regular basis. Lets hope that they start doing it soon. P.S. I love these ideas btw. Hence the BUMP back to the first page. |
 Kai Viqtorr Gallente Mercatoris |
Posted - 2003.08.07 14:42:00 -
[120] Prophesy, one of the recent Dev Chats commented that they had been concentrating on reading the "Bug Reporting" forums and stuff from the Chaos server, but not getting much further. While we can all appreaciate the need to fix bugs and black hole systems, we all agree with you that this forum should be read by all of CCP on a regular basis. Lets hope that they start doing it soon. P.S. I love these ideas btw. Hence the BUMP back to the first page. |
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