Seriously?

2 TDs on condors are "nearly useless"? Three RSDs on the hookbill? What, do you want them to be able to be as horribly annoying as they are now with only 1 of these modules fitted?

Seriously?

Michael hit at the core of the issue here; ewar, and its ability to be run perpetually, at the frig level. Why the hell can the condor run MWD, point, plus two TDs, forever, exactly?

If CPU cost is so "insane", how come so many ships seem to fit and run them with no problems? Hookbills and Condors are of course the worst offenders here, but any form of ewar is crippling at the frigate level, and that just compounds the issue of more midslot ships being nearly universally better than ships with less mids. Add to this the fact that shield tanks are simply faster than armor tanks, and that shield tanks naturally work better with more mids (ofc) and the problem grows even more noticeable.

A ship with a 3/4/2 layout is simply better than a ship with a 3/2/4 layout (edit here, AT THE T1 FRIG LEVEL!) Period. With so many hulls being revamped to be useful, it only grows harder to balance them correctly. It almost feels like CCP should try to correctly balance 1 or 2 frigs per race and get them actually working right BEFORE trying to add or change more.

The Rifter could use some love, but of course, I am biased here; I fly Minmatar. The Rifter is not terrible, but it isnt exactly good. I will leave discussion of "what it needs" for people not quite so attached to it, I think.

Nice to see that Naglfar will be useful. I wish you would fix Phoenix too because it's a hardly can be called a Dreadnought.

And a Falloff slasher 4/3/3 maybe could not work as I imagined (tracking issues per example), I don't know.

Tristan needs more fittings, then it would be ok (although the useless bonus is kinda meh)

Punisher is going to be **** no matter what you do with it unless its completely redesigned.

Rifter pretty much the same.



As for the breacher, i don't think its bad at all but w/e

Nah, it just happens to be that a punisher sucks at 1v1s. It's a better fleet ship. Best fast(ish) T1 tackle frig out there! It's tank will allow it to take that 1-2 more volleys so that the slower tackle ships can get their point/web on.

Edit: with a standard AB fit, the thing can pack on a T2 400mm plate and get 9.5K EHP, and with a MWD, 8.9K ehp. Not shabby for a shi*** frigate.

Can Incursuses cap be increased since last bonus nerf? Or any other characteristics...

//Rifter
Okay, another take.

This is just an out of the blue comment and since slots-changes were commented just some two posts above.

So, let's say Slasher takes the actual crown of tackling - officially.

What would you think of actually moving things a bit more around on Rifter, so it really stands out?

Be it a

5/2/3 (so an aggressive 5-highslot feature)
or
3/2/5 (lowslot variant)

Having two meds, it would be as efficient as a tackler but more of a brawler with lows for some flexibility for gank or armor or speed tank fits. I know two meds sucks, but let's face it, Slasher is the tackler boss now - at least for that particular task.

And I would give another small of HP for Tristan, Punisher, Merlin (and eventually Rifter).

I probably missed something... (/braces for troll-quote :D!)

I wouldn't like to see Rifter with 4 Meds unless the hull evolves more around some sort of tank bonus, because we do not need a wannabe-Slasher.

I'd love to play around suggestions around Rifter's bonuses, but it breaks a lot of the playstyle of other players. Which is again why I'd love to see a cloned hull, for the upteenth time (which is to be denied again ;D).

One some ships its a lot easier than others. On the Ferox they were able to do it without too much trouble for Retri 1.1. For the Nag we evaluated the cost-benefit of changing the model vs adding the role bonus and decided the role bonus was the better stewardship of the time we have available.

It comes down to the fact that if we make the most efficient use of the time we have available we can make the best product possible for you all.

Edit: (and the Enyo as well)

I understand the reasons, but you doin it wrong!
This thinking leads to not fixing real bad mechanics and things, just rewrite stats.
CCP dont fix lp shops, dont fix bad idustrial and science mechanics and design, dont fix pos, dont fix sov mechanics.
Its too much time, too much work.
You writing ship stats instead...

Ship stats rebalance need too! But others tings need redone too!
CCP got all the resource for that! We pay you!

THEN DO IT!
And dont do marketing promises instead on Funfest, i got enough promises from last year, dont need more.

Yes to the double damage bonus, the skill bonuses are not changing.

As for the utility high, we think the ship will be quite competitive with the three highs and the damage bonus. We did consider leaving a utility high on it but decided to keep it more in line with its peers.

how about phoenix and revelation rebalance to be in line with moros?

They will do it, soon (tm).
It's just about Fozzie hates split-weapons more than anything in EVE, so he managed to push this ninja-fix in before the main balancing pass on Dreads. I think it's wrong, and if citadel torps were fixed first, the old split-weaponed Naglfar could perform well enough.

Maybe the plan is to delete citadel missiles entirely, but the graphical changes required on the Phoenix mean that it can't be done now? But even then it's pretty simple to increase its DPS by 40-50% for a short-term fix.

IMO, the only good way to fix citadel torps is to give them back their AOE damage. Not sure if it's technically feasible, especially for application in low-sec space. But if it is, that could be the worst nerf ever to slow-cat doctrine and even for supercarriers. And of course, all Naglfar pilots would bite their elbows missing that opportunities.