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Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.04.21 05:13:00 -
[151] - Quote
So the great debate nerf cloaky camper vs nerf local. Lets look at these thingers for a minute and see what the fuss is about.
First why are cloaky campers such a big sore spot? Why do people complain about cloaky campers so much but you never hear anyone whine about Hell Camps or Roams etc etc. Why is it cloaky campers specifically?
Answer: Force projection. The problem: Afk cloakers project an amount of potential force while afk. It can just be a solo pvp pilot or a cyno alt for a cap fleet but is more often than not a covert cyno alt. The problem with this force projection is that it is only counterable by a couple of things which the cloaky pilot can assess and take action (generally by not taking action). You can move and let your system's industry fall out as the usual afk camper intends. Or you can keep security around the clock waiting for the 2 or 3 times out of 23 hours the afk cloaky guy decides to make a move.
AFK > Active Pilots
Then there's the sentiment about nerfing local. Why do people want this and what does it mean to everyone?
Answer: The cloaky gankers want this to make ganking easier. This is along the same lines as the nerf high sec's safety. They're just a small minority that want to get easy kills with minimal effort/risk. Nerfing local chat would in fact reduce the risk for cloaky campers and cloaky guys of all types. It would also make it nearly impossible for anyone to rat/mine in null with any way of protecting themselves short of having 23/7 security.
If this were to happen people would probably migrate to WH space, high sec or just unsub.
You're probably wondering why WH if there's no local there already? Well it's pretty simple.
1: Cloaky campers in WH space cannot hotdrop you. 2: WH space does not have map data associated with it such as pilots in space in the last 30 min. 3: WH space actually has a great reward incentive for the moment, so losing ships is not as big of a deal. 4: WH space cannot be accessed on demand. Getting a camper into one of those systems is not easy.
There really does need to be something done about afk campers. Really the problem has to do with Cloaky Cynos. Maybe there needs to be something done with the combination of the 2 modules. Maybe the Cyno module prevent the cloaking module from cycling indefinately. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 23:15:00 -
[152] - Quote
Nerfing cloaky campers will mean that there is no counter for local and that there is virtually no risk to any PVE pilot who is paying attention to local and staying (actively) aligned. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
133
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 23:24:00 -
[153] - Quote
I think what people don't understand, like what Erutpar Ambient Demonstrated is that, one must keep the system in balance, at the moment the system IS BALANCED. Here the TDL version of the current balance system
to nerf local, you must nerf cloak to nerf cloak, you must nerf local
When those conditions apply, normally things are rather balance, force projection is on it only slightly different topic cause of the bandaid bridge theory, but Cyno was not only made to avoid local, but because of it super caps depend on it for a means of transportation.... Which also means Cyno should be balanced carefully as well, the current and MAIN way to counter force projection is to block all normal cynos in general, black ops cynos are there to dodge cyno blockers. GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ |
Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 23:37:00 -
[154] - Quote
To add my Whine ot the multitude
linkie
Though I feel my suggetion isn't targeted at AFK cloakies just at ones you know the rough location of... |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 05:31:00 -
[155] - Quote
DataRunner Attor wrote:I think what people don't understand, like what Erutpar Ambient Demonstrated is that, one must keep the system in balance, at the moment the system IS BALANCED. Here the TDL version of the current balance system
to nerf local, you must nerf cloak to nerf cloak, you must nerf local
When those conditions apply, normally things are rather balance, force projection is on it only slightly different topic cause of the bandaid bridge theory, but Cyno was not only made to avoid local, but because of it super caps depend on it for a means of transportation.... Which also means Cyno should be balanced carefully as well, the current and MAIN way to counter force projection is to block all normal cynos in general, black ops cynos are there to dodge cyno blockers.
The system is not balanced.
AFK cloak camping is the pvp version of Ice mining in high sec. The difference is, instead of having to offload every 35,000 m3 full you can just sit there all day and continuously project force until someone makes the mistake of having a nice ship out at the moment you decide to come back and scan for ships.
The risk of cloaky camping is nothing. The reward: bleeding your victims dry while their systems fall back to zero indy/military levels.
I'm sure cloaky camping has a pretty heavy impact on the "fullness" of nullsec.
example: New alliance moves to Null as a renter. The day they move in someone plants a cloaky camper alt in each of their systems. A few days later the new alliance grows some huevos and starts mining/ratting in spite of the camper. The camper's alliance covert cynos in their 40+ bombers and such and kills a hulk and/or faction BS or 2. The new alliance moves back out of null sec. Null sec remains empty. Mission accomplished?
If this was just 1 person ganking people that would be totally fine. But when you cov cyno in a 40+ blop drop then what do you do? Keep 40+ people ready at all times to reverse gank the blop drop? Yeah, good luck with that.
TLDR; Cloaky Camper Blop Drop = Empty 0.0
GL on your next roam |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 14:51:00 -
[156] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote: The system is not balanced.
Yes, it is. Cloaky camping is a counter for the intel capabilities local provides. Local is a counter to cloaky camping.
To be more clear:
Cloaky camping provides a way to deny resources and assets to pilots in null via the excellent intel capabilities of local. Local is a counter to cloaky camping since local tells the pilot who was going to do some PVE that there is a hostile in system.
Quote:AFK cloak camping is the pvp version of Ice mining in high sec. The difference is, instead of having to offload every 35,000 m3 full you can just sit there all day and continuously project force until someone makes the mistake of having a nice ship out at the moment you decide to come back and scan for ships.
The risk of cloaky camping is nothing. The reward: bleeding your victims dry while their systems fall back to zero indy/military levels.
There are very few rewards other than asset/resource denial. And that is a total valid game mechanic. Denying the enemy access to resources (including isk) is nothing new.
Quote:example: New alliance moves to Null as a renter. The day they move in someone plants a cloaky camper alt in each of their systems. A few days later the new alliance grows some huevos and starts mining/ratting in spite of the camper. The camper's alliance covert cynos in their 40+ bombers and such and kills a hulk and/or faction BS or 2. The new alliance moves back out of null sec. Null sec remains empty. Mission accomplished?
Couple of points:
1. Work as a group in the above situation. A gang of bombers is not that tough...in fact they are paper thin. 2. When cloaky campers are in system don't rat in a pimped out fit, rat in something: 2.a. you can afford to lose 2.b. you can fit with and eye more towards pvp (remember part 1, rat/mine in a fleet)
As for the above alliance they were doing it wrong when the cloaky campers hit their systems.
Quote:If this was just 1 person ganking people that would be totally fine. But when you cov cyno in a 40+ blop drop then what do you do? Keep 40+ people ready at all times to reverse gank the blop drop? Yeah, good luck with that.
TLDR; Cloaky Camper Blop Drop = Empty 0.0
A fine bit of exaggeration. Some parts of null are empty, and one reason could be cloaky campers, but you are, IMO, vastly over stating the case here. The bigger reason that null is empty is because for low true sec systems doing much in them truly sucks ass. Mining? Nope. Ratting? Nope. Building? Aside from supers and titans that is a pathetic joke in all of null for the most part.
Quote:Edit: My solution. In the spirit of Odyssey I agree with the scanning probes. But here's how the system would work. Cloaking devices generate a "Cloak Signature" the longer they cycle continuously the larger the "Cloak Signature" becomes. So for a few hours you'll be unscannable but if you spend too much time without manually cycling your cloak you're going to get caught.
Talk about wanting to do something for very little risk. "Let me scan down cloaked ships, which have no tank, crap DPS, and shoot them or drive them off so I can PvE with minimal risk."
Have you ever had 2 clients opened and had 2 characters in adjacent systems and jumped character A into the same system as character B? Try it. But in case you don't have this capability I'll tell you what you'll see. A will be visible in local to B well before A loads grid. If A were to try and "catch" B, he would not be able to do it, since B gets about 1-2 seconds advanced warning he has a new person in system.
So, in regards to your solution: No!
At least not without making some sort of change to local so that it is not, in effect, giving advanced warning that hostiles are in system. And that is another reason roams are so boring...any pilot paying attention to intel channels, local and being actively aligned is going to be nearly impossible to catch. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:11:00 -
[157] - Quote
Two additional points:
1. An AFK campy cloaker has never lit a cyno ever...in fact no AFK player has ever lit a cyno. 2. When ratting (in a group) p |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
576
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
The system is not balanced.
AFK cloak camping is the pvp version of Ice mining in high sec. The difference is, instead of having to offload every 35,000 m3 full you can just sit there all day and continuously project force until someone makes the mistake of having a nice ship out at the moment you decide to come back and scan for ships.
The risk of cloaky camping is nothing. The reward: bleeding your victims dry while their systems fall back to zero indy/military levels.
I'm sure cloaky camping has a pretty heavy impact on the "fullness" of nullsec.
example: New alliance moves to Null as a renter. The day they move in someone plants a cloaky camper alt in each of their systems. A few days later the new alliance grows some huevos and starts mining/ratting in spite of the camper. The camper's alliance covert cynos in their 40+ bombers and such and kills a hulk and/or faction BS or 2. The new alliance moves back out of null sec. Null sec remains empty. Mission accomplished?
If this was just 1 person ganking people that would be totally fine. But when you cov cyno in a 40+ blop drop then what do you do? Keep 40+ people ready at all times to reverse gank the blop drop? Yeah, good luck with that.
TLDR; Cloaky Camper Blop Drop = Empty 0.0
GL on your next roam
Edit: My solution. In the spirit of Odyssey I agree with the scanning probes. But here's how the system would work. Cloaking devices generate a "Cloak Signature" the longer they cycle continuously the larger the "Cloak Signature" becomes. So for a few hours you'll be unscannable but if you spend too much time without manually cycling your cloak you're going to get caught.
Couple of points I would like to make in response to you Erutpar Ambient
1. This does not sound like a cloaking issue, its more like a Cyno issue. So add a delay on lighting a cyno when dropping cloak (similar to the targeting delay)#
2. "kills a hulk and/or faction BS or 2. The new alliance moves back out of null sec" SERIOUSLY???, you loose a hulk in ZeroSec and run back to High.... Sheesh, Man-Up already!
3. Your probes totally break Wormholes. Well Done!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 16:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote: 3. Your probes totally break Wormholes. Well Done!
I think you exagerate.
I honnestly think probes that can detect ships that have been cloacked for a very long period should help find them. The cloack "signature" feature he is suggesting is a good idea. I do not see why it could not be implemented. If this would be a REAL problem for WH residents, maybe offlining a few modules could help reduce this signature therefore, increasing the time it takes for the probes to be able to detect your presence. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 17:09:00 -
[160] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote: 3. Your probes totally break Wormholes. Well Done!
I think you exagerate. I honnestly think probes that can detect ships that have been cloacked for a very long period should help find them. The cloack "signature" feature he is suggesting is a good idea. I do not see why it could not be implemented. If this would be a REAL problem for WH residents, maybe offlining a few modules could help reduce this signature therefore, increasing the time it takes for the probes to be able to detect your presence.
Do you even play the game? If your cloak is active you cannot activate any other modules.
Cyno delay on covert ops? Why not simply propose removal of said ships? Probably alot easier to implement.
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Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 18:27:00 -
[161] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Random Majere wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote: 3. Your probes totally break Wormholes. Well Done!
I think you exagerate. I honnestly think probes that can detect ships that have been cloacked for a very long period should help find them. The cloack "signature" feature he is suggesting is a good idea. I do not see why it could not be implemented. If this would be a REAL problem for WH residents, maybe offlining a few modules could help reduce this signature therefore, increasing the time it takes for the probes to be able to detect your presence. Do you even play the game? If your cloak is active you cannot activate any other modules. Cyno delay on covert ops? Why not simply propose removal of said ships? Probably alot easier to implement.
LOL...Either you didnt get what I said or you do not know the difference between offlining a module and activating it. If a guy wants to cloack in a system, go to work, see a movie, go dancing, and then comes back fly is internet spaceship and get an easy kill...there should be a price for that. You dont want the big bad probes to find you??? Well, your modules (except your cloack) need to be offline bud!! You then need to de-cloack in your safe to online them back.
If probes that can detect cloacked ships really is a problem for WHs, maybe they could be made ineffective in them (because of some natural phenomena). I have no problem with that.
Also, where did I say in my previous post that I wanted a cyno delay on covert ops?
So...remove local...nerf AFK cloacking everywhere except WHs....everyone wins!! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 19:27:00 -
[162] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Random Majere wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote: 3. Your probes totally break Wormholes. Well Done!
I think you exagerate. I honnestly think probes that can detect ships that have been cloacked for a very long period should help find them. The cloack "signature" feature he is suggesting is a good idea. I do not see why it could not be implemented. If this would be a REAL problem for WH residents, maybe offlining a few modules could help reduce this signature therefore, increasing the time it takes for the probes to be able to detect your presence. Do you even play the game? If your cloak is active you cannot activate any other modules. Cyno delay on covert ops? Why not simply propose removal of said ships? Probably alot easier to implement. LOL...Either you didnt get what I said or you do not know the difference between offlining a module and activating it. If a guy wants to cloack in a system, go to work, see a movie, go dancing, and then comes back fly is internet spaceship and get an easy kill...there should be a price for that. You dont want the big bad probes to find you??? Well, your modules (except your cloack) need to be offline bud!! You then need to de-cloack in your safe to online them back. If probes that can detect cloacked ships really is a problem for WHs, maybe they could be made ineffective in them (because of some natural phenomena). I have no problem with that. Also, where did I say in my previous post that I wanted a cyno delay on covert ops? So...remove local...nerf AFK cloacking everywhere except WHs....everyone wins!!
Offlining modules...great...and what nerf do we get to local? Hmmm? How about something equally strong...llike simply removing it from null? |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 20:01:00 -
[163] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Offlining modules...great...and what nerf do we get to local? Hmmm? How about something equally strong...llike simply removing it from null?
Yeah sure why not!! Been asking for it for a long time dude!! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 21:05:00 -
[164] - Quote
Nobody would undock in null. It is too much of a nerf. Null is not like W-space. You can't get hot dropped in W-space, your activity does not show up on the in game map or dotlan.
Local needs nerfing, and when that happens so does cloaking, but your solution is too simple and too much. People need to be able to exploit the riches of null sec...and there needs to be risk. Balance is needed. What we have now kind of sucks regarding cloaks and local, but it is balanced...or close enough.
Based on articles on blogs and sites lie themittani.com CCP is looking at this, but they haven't found a solution they like yet. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 23:47:00 -
[165] - Quote
I'm really starting to feel like Luke Wilson in "Idiocracy" where he's trying to convince everyone to water the plants with water instead of Brawndo. "But it's got what plants crave." "It's got electrolytes"
I don't care if someone is Cloaky camping my system, I don't care if they cyno **** in and gank people. I don't care if they log off camp my system. What i do care about someone remaining in space in a hostile system and being 100% safe. That is what i have a problem with.
In the spirit of Eve Online there should be absolutely no activity you can do where you're 100% safe. Whether it's high sec mining, station trading, PI and Datacore farming. There is always a chance something can come around and ruin your day. The only thing that is currently immune to this is AFK Cloaking. There needs to be a way to kill cloaky ships that stay cloaked for too long.
My solution absolutely hurts nobody except afk cloaky campers that use Potential Threat Projection to keep a very high ratio of other pilots from going about their business.
In my solution the cloak signature increases as time goes on. This means initially you won't be scanable, so if you're moving between systems in a transport ship you're totally unaffected. This ALSO means that if you turn your cloak off and turn it back on you reset your cloak signature completely. So by being at your keyboard every hour or 2 you actively prevent yourself from being Cloak Sig scanned down, but you don't lose your ability to project your potential threat on a system.
If you're in WH space, then just log off or keep your computer close. This only prevents afking for long periods of time.
Without local then there would be no fights anywhere ever. Roaming Fleets would just end up warping htrough each other in a system and jumping out the other end without ever seeing anything. No Local would be worse for target seekers than it would be for system dwellers.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 00:04:00 -
[166] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
I don't care if someone is Cloaky camping my system, I don't care if they cyno **** in and gank people. I don't care if they log off camp my system. What i do care about someone remaining in space in a hostile system and being 100% safe. That is what i have a problem with.
So I assume you have similar issues with POS?
And so what if they are 100% safe? They are 100% unable to do anything other than look at you while retaining that safety. Who cares.
Quote:In the spirit of Eve Online there should be absolutely no activity you can do where you're 100% safe.
And to this end, I want timers that auto-eject people from station and POS shields.
Quote:Whether it's high sec mining, station trading, PI and Datacore farming. There is always a chance something can come around and ruin your day. The only thing that is currently immune to this is AFK Cloaking. There needs to be a way to kill cloaky ships that stay cloaked for too long.
And sitting in station, sitting in POS shields. So tell us about your nerf to those.
Quote:My solution absolutely hurts nobody except afk cloaky campers that use Potential Threat Projection to keep a very high ratio of other pilots from going about their business.
And gives a huge buff to null sec PVE. Have you thought out the ramifications of that?
Quote:In my solution the cloak signature increases as time goes on. This means initially you won't be scanable, so if you're moving between systems in a transport ship you're totally unaffected. This ALSO means that if you turn your cloak off and turn it back on you reset your cloak signature completely. So by being at your keyboard every hour or 2 you actively prevent yourself from being Cloak Sig scanned down, but you don't lose your ability to project your potential threat on a system.
If you're in WH space, then just log off or keep your computer close. This only prevents afking for long periods of time.
Without local then there would be no fights anywhere ever. Roaming Fleets would just end up warping htrough each other in a system and jumping out the other end without ever seeing anything. No Local would be worse for target seekers than it would be for system dwellers.
And to this end I think we need to end endless ship spinning in station. When somebody new docks, the person with the longest period of time in station would get ejected into space with a long enough timer to prevent immediate re-docking. This way we end station games. We keep people from being 100% safe (this is Eve after all, right?), and it promotes PvP.
What could possibly go wrong?!?!
Your problem is not that everyone is an idiot but you...your problem is that you are failing to deal with the other problem that has lead to afk cloaking. You are attacking the symptom and not the cause. Local's rather amazing intel capabilities. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 13:33:00 -
[167] - Quote
Decloaking.... |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
578
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:35:00 -
[168] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote: In the spirit of Eve Online there should be absolutely no activity you can do where you're 100% safe. Whether it's high sec mining, station trading, PI and Datacore farming. There is always a chance something can come around and ruin your day. The only thing that is currently immune to this is AFK Cloaking. There needs to be a way to kill cloaky ships that stay cloaked for too long.
But you are happy with local being the way it is so as soon as a non blue enters a zerosec system (or low, whatever), the locals can instantly scurry away to their Outpost/POS for 100% safety?
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:22:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote: In the spirit of Eve Online there should be absolutely no activity you can do where you're 100% safe. Whether it's high sec mining, station trading, PI and Datacore farming. There is always a chance something can come around and ruin your day. The only thing that is currently immune to this is AFK Cloaking. There needs to be a way to kill cloaky ships that stay cloaked for too long.
But you are happy with local being the way it is so as soon as a non blue enters a zerosec system (or low, whatever), the locals can instantly scurry away to their Outpost/POS for 100% safety?
What he said...
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:38:00 -
[170] - Quote
No way to the third page! |
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Imperator DarthSidious
Risen from Ashes
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:18:00 -
[171] - Quote
I'm wondering, why CCP isn't doing something to help nullsec sov-holders to get the cloaky-campers out. I've read some of those threads and there are very good ideas be told, but nothing happens.
Maybe we should make an online petition with lots of subscribers for the collected ideas and send it to CCP. It's not funny people sitting around in foreign systems with cloaky while they are afk. One little cloaky ship should not have this much power to the sov... So CCP has to act...
Btw. I have an combined idea for a POS-Module. What if a POS-Module will send out an magnetic wave to the entire system wich marks every cloaky-ship for about 15 minutes. All players who are blue to the POS can use from now on probes and D-Scan to find the cloaky as like a normal ship within this time.
The CovOps Pilot can see an Debuff-Icon that he's bin marked an has to warp around until the Debufff disappered... That would ensures people to stay at keyboard.
If you will find the ship, you can use an special bomb to decloak the ship within an range of 100 KM. The Bomb does not make any damage but the cloaking device has to recalibrate for about 30 sec to cloak again.
That POS-Module can consume some kind of Fuel or can have an CD-Timer. It's possible to put this Module on more POS's to lower the CD-Timer.
p.s. I like CovOps but not that way
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
581
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:30:00 -
[172] - Quote
Imperator DarthSidious wrote:I'm wondering, why CCP isn't doing something to help nullsec sov-holders to get the cloaky-campers out. I've read some of those threads and there are very good ideas be told, but nothing happens.
Maybe we should make an online petition with lots of subscribers for the collected ideas and send it to CCP. It's not funny people sitting around in foreign systems with cloaky while they are afk. One little cloaky ship should not have this much power to the sov... So CCP has to act...
Btw. I have an combined idea for a POS-Module. What if a POS-Module will send out an magnetic wave to the entire system wich marks every cloaky-ship for about 15 minutes. All players who are blue to the POS can use from now on probes and D-Scan to find the cloaky as like a normal ship within this time.
The CovOps Pilot can see an Debuff-Icon that he's bin marked an has to warp around until the Debufff disappered... That would ensures people to stay at keyboard.
If you will find the ship, you can use an special bomb to decloak the ship within an range of 100 KM. The Bomb does not make any damage but the cloaking device has to recalibrate for about 30 sec to cloak again.
That POS-Module can consume some kind of Fuel or can have an CD-Timer. It's possible to put this Module on more POS's to lower the CD-Timer.
p.s. I like CovOps but not that way
How does a nearly 4 year old character even come up with such an overpowered (and idiotic) idea?
Also, you have also completely destroyed Wormholes.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Imperator DarthSidious
Risen from Ashes
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:45:00 -
[173] - Quote
Quote:How does a nearly 4 year old character even come up with such an overpowered (and idiotic) idea?
Also, you have also completely destroyed Wormholes.
You wanna tell me, that you are the afk-clocky-guy? Your post is very offensive, and especially not constructive ... Please switch on your brain before you post something! |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:20:00 -
[174] - Quote
Imperator DarthSidious wrote: I'm wondering, why CCP isn't doing something to help nullsec sov-holders to get the cloaky-campers out. I've read some of those threads and there are very good ideas be told, but nothing happens.
Maybe we should make an online petition with lots of subscribers for the collected ideas and send it to CCP. It's not funny people sitting around in foreign systems with cloaky while they are afk. One little cloaky ship should not have this much power to the sov... So CCP has to act...
I`ll repeat what I said in another thread. The reason why CCP will not touch AFK cloacking is because AFK cloacking helps them sell PLEX. |
Imperator DarthSidious
Risen from Ashes
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:39:00 -
[175] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:
I`ll repeat what I said in another thread. The reason why CCP will not touch AFK cloacking is because AFK cloacking helps them sell PLEX.
Not it don't! I can tell you why it changes nothing to the PLEX-Sale. There are many people who are tired to allways move around. So if the can't play while they are camped they will also get tired about that. So they don't play and asking themselfs why they should pay for that. Cause of that some of my friends stoped playing EVE from time to time.
Also AFK-Cloaking stops people from earning ISK so they won't be able to buy PLEX ingame...
That's why I think it's a problem that needs CCP's help to be fixed! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:37:00 -
[176] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote: In the spirit of Eve Online there should be absolutely no activity you can do where you're 100% safe. Whether it's high sec mining, station trading, PI and Datacore farming. There is always a chance something can come around and ruin your day. The only thing that is currently immune to this is AFK Cloaking. There needs to be a way to kill cloaky ships that stay cloaked for too long.
There also needs to be a way to kill someone who is in an outpost/npc station too long. On their own, cloakies are really not that powerful - if they're dedicated ships, like recons or covert ops frigates killing them will take a well-aimed sneeze. Granted - they may remain safe "in the system" but they can't really do anything whatsoever while they're cloaked. The moment they decloak you can actually kill them.
T3s being a different bunch with their annoying habit of getting out of the bubbles, but they're actually not that threatening compared to the normal T3 setups someone would face. Covert Reconfiguration and Interdiction Nullifier force you to sacrifice a fair chunk of both tank and firepower.
That said, the mechanic on its own is rather dumb and the 'verse wouldn't miss it. It was, however, born as a response to safety brought by the easy-to-acquire intel - local. Removal of it wouldn't fix anything of course, because nullsec is vastly different from W-space.
I think I said it in another thread: anyone who goes against AFK cloaking, to have their argument heard should pass the Trial by Ordeal. They are to cloaky-camp a hostile system and try to gank someone ratting, or successfully lead a black ops drop. I have also stated that current NPC AI/Deadspace mechanics make it harder and harder to sneak up on people and gank them. For instance, a would-be hunter is likely to be shot by both his victim and... whatever rats the victim happened to be happily slaughtering. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
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Posted - 2013.04.24 12:52:00 -
[177] - Quote
Imperator DarthSidious wrote:Random Majere wrote:
I`ll repeat what I said in another thread. The reason why CCP will not touch AFK cloacking is because AFK cloacking helps them sell PLEX.
Not it don't! I can tell you why it changes nothing to the PLEX-Sale. There are many people who are tired to allways move around. So if the can't play while they are camped they will also get tired about that. So they don't play and asking themselfs why they should pay for that. Cause of that some of my friends stoped playing EVE from time to time. Also AFK-Cloaking stops people from earning ISK so they won't be able to buy PLEX ingame... That's why I think it's a problem that needs CCP's help to be fixed!
Yes it does. There are many players like me with nice RL jobs who do not have the time and luxury of "moving around" because your farming systems are being camped by AFK cloackies. Buying PLEX becomes the easy solution in order to support your PvP activities. Also, when you are in a null sec alliance that is locked in a major campaign against another powerful alliance, with OPs and CTAs around the clock, farming for ISKs becomes even harder and...not well seen by your alliance m8s and leadership.... so.... yeah...when you can afford it, using your credit card to buy a PLEX becomes the easy solution.
You are wrong if you think CCP does not evaluate impacts on revenues when looking at potential changes (even if constently being requested by a large amount of players). |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1242
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Posted - 2013.04.24 12:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
All these cries of "but you shouldn't be safe!!11" are pretty dishonest. I don't see you guys screaming about the fact you can sit in your outpost perfectly safe, or sit in your pos and be perfectly safe, or that local is instant and infallible allowing you to warp off and safe up the millisecond a non blue enters system, or all the other things.
Also, why shouldn't someone who is incapable of doing anything be afforded safety? As the reward tends towards zero, why shouldn't the risk? Are you so bad at EVE that you want CCP to give you mechanics to allow you to shoot at people who aren't even currently playing the game? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
Imperator DarthSidious wrote:I'm wondering, why CCP isn't doing something to help nullsec sov-holders to get the cloaky-campers out. I've read some of those threads and there are very good ideas be told, but nothing happens.
Most of the ideas suck and focus on the wrong thing. Cloaky camping is a result of local. If local wasn't there then there would be no reason to cloaky camp.
Of course, simply removing local is too much. You can't tell if you are undocking to go mine for awhile or rat or any other number of activities in null or if you are going to undock into a hostile fleet.
So both local and cloaks have to change around the same time. And when you change local you want to make sure that there are ways for people in null to gather intel so they can undock.
Quote:Maybe we should make an online petition with lots of subscribers for the collected ideas and send it to CCP. It's not funny people sitting around in foreign systems with cloaky while they are afk. One little cloaky ship should not have this much power to the sov... So CCP has to act...
The ideas so far have sucked and CCP doesn't like any of them as far as we can tell because this idea has been around forever. I have been playing over 5 years and it was here when I started playing and the response to the old timers then was almost always a variant of "Oh this topic again, use the search feature FFS." CCP is quite aware of this situation.
Quote:Btw. I have an combined idea for a POS-Module. What if a POS-Module will send out an magnetic wave to the entire system wich marks every cloaky-ship for about 15 minutes. All players who are blue to the POS can use from now on probes and D-Scan to find the cloaky as like a normal ship within this time.
Are you trolling? You must be trolling...please tell me you are trolling.
Quote:p.s. I like CovOps but not that way
Oh good, trolling then.....
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:10:00 -
[180] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: I think I said it in another thread: anyone who goes against AFK cloaking, to have their argument heard should pass the Trial by Ordeal. They are to cloaky-camp a hostile system and try to gank someone ratting, or successfully lead a black ops drop. I have also stated that current NPC AI/Deadspace mechanics make it harder and harder to sneak up on people and gank them. For instance, a would-be hunter is likely to be shot by both his victim and... whatever rats the victim happened to be happily slaughtering.
This. Trying to catch people is near impossible. Why? Local gives great intel. Add on intel channels and cloaky alts who are watching a critical entry system (oh the ****ing irony of this one you whiney ass bitches). You have to either hope the guy has been unlucky and is scrammed by a rat, isn't aligned and not paying attention to things like local and intel. Other wise it is another night of sitting on the pig bantering with the guys in alliance....not horrible, but a nice kill every now and this would be nice.
I know it sucks not being able to rat, and some of you need to rat for plex. But you really need to look at the issue from all sides. Looking at the issue from just one angle will give you a skewed perspective. For example, you think you are looking at a circle. It is round, has a constant radius, and so by God it is a circle. Then you turn it and realize what a dumb**ck you were cause you see it is a cone and you were looking at the base straight on.
So...you guys that want to rat? I sympathize with you. Some of the guys in my alliance undoubtedly rat to pay for plex and I want them too...they are my alliance mates and are (online) friends. It is better with them there than not. And even some guy across the universe...I want you in game too. Why? I may get a change to shoot you, and more subs for CCP means the game will be here for me as well. So I get it. I ******* get it.
At the same time it should not be risk free (stupidity/bad luck excepting). I, as a PvPer, should be able to have a chance at catching and killing you with the rest of my gang. That is, for many players, where the fun lies. If that were to go away, I'd probably just un-sub after a few months. Never played WoW, watched my son do it, not for me thanks. Turn Eve into that and I'm gone. And that means fewer subs. So you should get this point too. Get it right through that ultra thick skull that even a large titanium sabot round has difficulty penetrating.
There has to be a ****ing balance. Nerfing cloaks wont help with balance. Nerfing local wont help with balance. Nerfing both...and in the right way can help. What is the right way? I don't know, this article discusses it and links to other articles, I like some of the ideas in there:
http://themittani.com/features/local-problem-tale-two-solutions
Like this part,
Quote:Another upshot is that these structures, the IFF Beacon in particular, would be a legitimate candidate to qualify as a "small gang" target. Antenna are not exactly known to be the most robust structures, after all, and there would be no good reason to give them an inordinate amount of HP. An intruding gang could, with relative ease, eliminate the local beacon to provide a blind-spot for their gate camp... or perhaps in addition to being destructible, they're hackable, and invading forces can take control of them for their own purposes. In larger scale warfare, perhaps an invading force (subcapital or otherwise) is preceded by a smaller gang, knocking out their target's beacons to hide the presence of the inbound fleets.
That would be fun. You have to go in system, hack the IFF Beacon, and the beacon goes down. Stops reporting. If you aren't looking closely you might not notice--i.e. you read the lack of reporting as the system being clear. If you focus on just that system (say you open a new window, it will tell you the beacon is offline--uh-oh that means hostiles most likely or some doofus forgot to fuel it) or something like that.
So, TL;DR fine nerf cloaks, but nerf local FFS. And give people intel gathering opportunities/options as well. Maybe it can make null more fun and interesting vs. the current rather stale situtation.
Besides, I've always liked cloaky ships. I like the idea of being the first guy(s) in system getting ready for an attack and being the last ones out as the fleet moves on for whatever reasons. Doing sneaky stuff like hacking various systems the defender has put in place. |
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