EVE Search - Playboy Enterprises, Heff and the the Economic Warmongers

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Sweet Fresca	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:35:00 - [61] Edited by: Sweet Fresca on 25/07/2003 06:36:22 I am afraid Neptunus is correct. Production efficiency will save you 20% of the mineral cost (that has nothing to do with researching the BP). Mineral efficiency research can save you around 5%. So researching the original is not a big deal. Researching is very quick and most BP copies I have seen on the market are already pretty much fully researched. The developer's claim that copies are not "competitive" is wrong.
Sweet Fresca	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:35:00 - [62] Edited by: Sweet Fresca on 25/07/2003 06:36:22 I am afraid Neptunus is correct. Production efficiency will save you 20% of the mineral cost (that has nothing to do with researching the BP). Mineral efficiency research can save you around 5%. So researching the original is not a big deal. Researching is very quick and most BP copies I have seen on the market are already pretty much fully researched. The developer's claim that copies are not "competitive" is wrong.
Heff	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:41:00 - [63] Edited by: Heff on 25/07/2003 15:17:39 Sweet, maybe I should jack up my prices then. Sounds like you guys are telling me I can get more for my blueprint copies. Thanks for the free advertising! Soooo..... here are the slot/cost breakdowns for the Megathron deal if any of you are interested. Let me know ASAP as I hope to close this soon. Partner 1: 241,500,000 (Taken) Partner 2: 210,000,000 (Taken) Partner 3: 178,500,000 Partner 4: 147,000,000 Playboy: 273,000,000 (Taken) Heff President, Playboy Enterprises [email protected]
Heff Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:41:00 - [64] Edited by: Heff on 25/07/2003 15:17:39 Sweet, maybe I should jack up my prices then. Sounds like you guys are telling me I can get more for my blueprint copies. Thanks for the free advertising! Soooo..... here are the slot/cost breakdowns for the Megathron deal if any of you are interested. Let me know ASAP as I hope to close this soon. Partner 1: 241,500,000 (Taken) Partner 2: 210,000,000 (Taken) Partner 3: 178,500,000 Partner 4: 147,000,000 Playboy: 273,000,000 (Taken) Heff President, Playboy Enterprises [email protected]
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.07.25 07:58:00 - [65] "1) Joe buys a Thorax BP original at 72m. 2) Joe uses 4.3m isk on minerals (this with current mega & zydrine prices) to produce a Thorax. 3) At 10m a piece, Joe must sell 12.5 Thoraxes before he even breaks even!" Joe becomes familiar with the concept of market entry costs. "1) Joe buys a Thorax BP from Playboy at 20m. 2) Joe uses 4.3m isk on minerals. 3) Joe finds that everybody else has a Thorax BP and can't sell them for over 5.5-6m, with prices only going down because soon everybody has a Thorax BP. 4) Joe is now screwed, because Thorax prices continue going down as Playboy sells more and more copies. Eventually everybody has a copy and Joe never can sell enough Thorax to break even." Joe can only blame himself for his poor investment, and in the future might even research the market he tries to get into instead of jumping head-first. ... am sorry, just what exactly is the problem in the presented cases?..
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.07.25 07:58:00 - [66] "1) Joe buys a Thorax BP original at 72m. 2) Joe uses 4.3m isk on minerals (this with current mega & zydrine prices) to produce a Thorax. 3) At 10m a piece, Joe must sell 12.5 Thoraxes before he even breaks even!" Joe becomes familiar with the concept of market entry costs. "1) Joe buys a Thorax BP from Playboy at 20m. 2) Joe uses 4.3m isk on minerals. 3) Joe finds that everybody else has a Thorax BP and can't sell them for over 5.5-6m, with prices only going down because soon everybody has a Thorax BP. 4) Joe is now screwed, because Thorax prices continue going down as Playboy sells more and more copies. Eventually everybody has a copy and Joe never can sell enough Thorax to break even." Joe can only blame himself for his poor investment, and in the future might even research the market he tries to get into instead of jumping head-first. ... am sorry, just what exactly is the problem in the presented cases?..
Teister	Posted - 2003.07.25 08:38:00 - [67] Edited by: Teister on 25/07/2003 09:01:50 Edited by: Teister on 25/07/2003 08:52:49 There is another side to this issue which is being missed. With BP inexpensive for everybody, more ships are afordable and available. That may be bad for your ship building business, but good for mine. Ships require minerals in large quanties, especially mega and zyd. I supply mega and zyd and demand is strong so sales and profit are up. So, from your point of view, cheep BP are bad for business. But for hundreds of miners, especially for those of us who specialize in Mega and Zyd sales, cheep BP's are good. Teister CEO Independent Miners Guild President, CFS Alliance www.cfs-eve.org
Teister Minmatar Aonyma	Posted - 2003.07.25 08:38:00 - [68] Edited by: Teister on 25/07/2003 09:01:50 Edited by: Teister on 25/07/2003 08:52:49 There is another side to this issue which is being missed. With BP inexpensive for everybody, more ships are afordable and available. That may be bad for your ship building business, but good for mine. Ships require minerals in large quanties, especially mega and zyd. I supply mega and zyd and demand is strong so sales and profit are up. So, from your point of view, cheep BP are bad for business. But for hundreds of miners, especially for those of us who specialize in Mega and Zyd sales, cheep BP's are good. Teister CEO Independent Miners Guild President, CFS Alliance www.cfs-eve.org
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.07.25 10:11:00 - [69] The original poster was right about one thing - it is economic warfare, and Playboy seem to be winning at it. Something needs to be done about frantic BP copying, but until that happens I don't see anything that isn't legitimate in game terms. A couple of months ago before the market got saturated and there were only one or two people doing this mass production you could have probably stopped it with a well timed war. Of course, war is never profitable...well, now we see the end result of that. You've lost the war and not a single shot has been fired. In fact Playboy and other big corps (they are not unique by any means) have wiped the floor with you. When figuring BP copy worths to a corp, don't forget that many buy them for self-equipping. To use an example given above if a corp can produce thoraxes at 3.6M and everyone else is selling them at 6.5M and they bought the BP for 20M, they only need to make 7 for their own purposes to make their money back. Any ships sold on the market after that are mineral-worth-improving profit making ventures, pure and simple. Let's face it, you need minimal specialised skills and facilities to get into production with no exclusivity at all to your product - so it's highly unsuprising that ship costs are tending to production costs. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Athule Snanm Amarr Blue Apple Industries	Posted - 2003.07.25 10:11:00 - [70] The original poster was right about one thing - it is economic warfare, and Playboy seem to be winning at it. Something needs to be done about frantic BP copying, but until that happens I don't see anything that isn't legitimate in game terms. A couple of months ago before the market got saturated and there were only one or two people doing this mass production you could have probably stopped it with a well timed war. Of course, war is never profitable...well, now we see the end result of that. You've lost the war and not a single shot has been fired. In fact Playboy and other big corps (they are not unique by any means) have wiped the floor with you. When figuring BP copy worths to a corp, don't forget that many buy them for self-equipping. To use an example given above if a corp can produce thoraxes at 3.6M and everyone else is selling them at 6.5M and they bought the BP for 20M, they only need to make 7 for their own purposes to make their money back. Any ships sold on the market after that are mineral-worth-improving profit making ventures, pure and simple. Let's face it, you need minimal specialised skills and facilities to get into production with no exclusivity at all to your product - so it's highly unsuprising that ship costs are tending to production costs. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Tinkka	Posted - 2003.07.25 20:36:00 - [71] All the people complaining in this post are total noobs who can't grasp how well the game mechanics in Eve actually works. There are two parts to making a profit. Selling at high prices and reducing your expenses. Playboy started out by spending time to make deals instead of mining, etc.. Instead of dumping 80 million isk to buy a single cruiser original, they bought FOUR original MOA, MALLER, THORAX, RUPTURE blueprints for 80 million by getting investors to contribute isk in exchange for copies. It took a three weeks for the game to spit out enough copies for all the investors, but Playboy managed to save 240 million isk in blueprints. Those blueprints in turn are now producing additional copies which they are selling. For a mere 80 million ISK, they are now making 80 million isk every couple days as new copies are produced. This is with ZERO time invested. I should know since making the BP deal was originally my idea and Heff was in my deal before it fell apart at the last minute. PB resurrected the deal afterwards and I was part of it. I got my MOA bp copy for 10 million and made 50 million profit in MOA sales the first week. I bought my own MOA original the very next week. The only people who are losing out are the ones who decided to spend their time slaving away at astroids for weeks to make enough to buy that 80 million MOA original blueprint. If you ask me the most valuable commodity is TIME. You could spend a lot of TIME gathering minerals yourself to produce a couple ships at 5200k profit. You could make a deal with a mining corp to have minerals delivered at a higher cost, but you could produce three times as much ships at 300k profit each. Right now Playboy is at the top of the food chain with Battleship Blueprint copying, but once the market gets saturated with battleship blueprints, ship manufacturers will move to the top of the food chain. Blueprint copies are never destroyed except accidentally. Ships get blown up all the time and need to be replaced. The best ship manufacturers will be the ones which can best maximized their profits by selling high and reducing their costs in the shortest amount of turnaround time.
Tinkka	Posted - 2003.07.25 20:36:00 - [72] All the people complaining in this post are total noobs who can't grasp how well the game mechanics in Eve actually works. There are two parts to making a profit. Selling at high prices and reducing your expenses. Playboy started out by spending time to make deals instead of mining, etc.. Instead of dumping 80 million isk to buy a single cruiser original, they bought FOUR original MOA, MALLER, THORAX, RUPTURE blueprints for 80 million by getting investors to contribute isk in exchange for copies. It took a three weeks for the game to spit out enough copies for all the investors, but Playboy managed to save 240 million isk in blueprints. Those blueprints in turn are now producing additional copies which they are selling. For a mere 80 million ISK, they are now making 80 million isk every couple days as new copies are produced. This is with ZERO time invested. I should know since making the BP deal was originally my idea and Heff was in my deal before it fell apart at the last minute. PB resurrected the deal afterwards and I was part of it. I got my MOA bp copy for 10 million and made 50 million profit in MOA sales the first week. I bought my own MOA original the very next week. The only people who are losing out are the ones who decided to spend their time slaving away at astroids for weeks to make enough to buy that 80 million MOA original blueprint. If you ask me the most valuable commodity is TIME. You could spend a lot of TIME gathering minerals yourself to produce a couple ships at 5200k profit. You could make a deal with a mining corp to have minerals delivered at a higher cost, but you could produce three times as much ships at 300k profit each. Right now Playboy is at the top of the food chain with Battleship Blueprint copying, but once the market gets saturated with battleship blueprints, ship manufacturers will move to the top of the food chain. Blueprint copies are never destroyed except accidentally. Ships get blown up all the time and need to be replaced. The best ship manufacturers will be the ones which can best maximized their profits by selling high and reducing their costs in the shortest amount of turnaround time.
Galadon	Posted - 2003.07.26 04:09:00 - [73] First of all, let me state for the record that "I abhor the practices of any corp or individual who drops the bottom out of any market." That being said, all of you casting stones at Playboy Enterprises need to take a long look in the mirror and at the history of the market you have created. What Playboy Enterprises is doing is nothing new, in fact, it has been going on since just about one month after release in many other areas and has been encouraged by all of you. Case in point: The drone market In the early weeks after release, the drone market was booming. Improved mining drones were selling for 70k to 90k ISK, with Elite mining drones going for about 270k ISK and Harvester mining drones costing around 380k ISK per drone. Soon the price for Harvesters dropped to 100k and then all the way down to 25k or 30k within a couple of days. Were the prices too high to begin with? Well the price of a basic mining drone on the npc market is still at 18k, figure the difference in yield and its value to miners universe wide and I would say definitely not. Not on the old forum board or this one is there a single post of your outrage about such a devastating blow to a market. Why, because every single one of you profited greatly from the increased yield of your mining operations and the decreased expenditure required to achieve said yield. Rather than post in outrage, you encouraged the decline of this market for your own profit. Even worse, you wanted delivery included in the price and further discounts for bulk orders. Now, all of a sudden, because someone is cutting into your profits and driving the bottom out of your market, it's an outrage! They need to be boycotted or killed! Please, take some responsibility for your own actions and greed. After all, they are what created the market and economy we live in today. So, rather than placing blame on Playboy Enterprises or CCP and the devs for not putting in measures to prevent such atrocities, we all need to share in the blame for the market and economy which "we the players" have created for ourselves through greed and the need for quick sales. Besides, a "real corp" would declare war on another corp to protect it's investment and livelihood, rather than whining on the boards and making idle threats about such injustices. "If it isn't worth protecting, then it isn't worth having!" The Freedom To Excel - The Power To Succeed The Freedom To Excel - The Power To Succeed
Galadon Gallente	Posted - 2003.07.26 04:09:00 - [74] First of all, let me state for the record that "I abhor the practices of any corp or individual who drops the bottom out of any market." That being said, all of you casting stones at Playboy Enterprises need to take a long look in the mirror and at the history of the market you have created. What Playboy Enterprises is doing is nothing new, in fact, it has been going on since just about one month after release in many other areas and has been encouraged by all of you. Case in point: The drone market In the early weeks after release, the drone market was booming. Improved mining drones were selling for 70k to 90k ISK, with Elite mining drones going for about 270k ISK and Harvester mining drones costing around 380k ISK per drone. Soon the price for Harvesters dropped to 100k and then all the way down to 25k or 30k within a couple of days. Were the prices too high to begin with? Well the price of a basic mining drone on the npc market is still at 18k, figure the difference in yield and its value to miners universe wide and I would say definitely not. Not on the old forum board or this one is there a single post of your outrage about such a devastating blow to a market. Why, because every single one of you profited greatly from the increased yield of your mining operations and the decreased expenditure required to achieve said yield. Rather than post in outrage, you encouraged the decline of this market for your own profit. Even worse, you wanted delivery included in the price and further discounts for bulk orders. Now, all of a sudden, because someone is cutting into your profits and driving the bottom out of your market, it's an outrage! They need to be boycotted or killed! Please, take some responsibility for your own actions and greed. After all, they are what created the market and economy we live in today. So, rather than placing blame on Playboy Enterprises or CCP and the devs for not putting in measures to prevent such atrocities, we all need to share in the blame for the market and economy which "we the players" have created for ourselves through greed and the need for quick sales. Besides, a "real corp" would declare war on another corp to protect it's investment and livelihood, rather than whining on the boards and making idle threats about such injustices. "If it isn't worth protecting, then it isn't worth having!" The Freedom To Excel - The Power To Succeed The Freedom To Excel - The Power To Succeed
Sybell Amarr Quantum Tunneling Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.08 02:19:00 - [75] sounds good, hook a brother up

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