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 Neptunus    |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:11:00 -
[1] Edited by: Neptunus on 24/07/2003 20:24:34 There are many forms of warfare in EVE, but they all ultimately result in lost ISK to you or your corporation. I am here to tell you about Playboy Enterprises and their active dealings to take literally billions in lost revenue from many corporations of good (and bad) standing in the galaxy. Let me tell you Playboy EnterpriseÆs modus operandi, and this is something that is known in small circles and a scheme I am sure they will readily admit to: They buy blueprints then sell COUNTLESS copies at roughly the price of the product itself. By flooding the market with cheap BP copies, it allows corporations to build internally and not need to use the market at all. In other words, who would buy a cruiser when they can get the BP for just a bit more? Did you ever wonder why it is so hard to make money selling cruisers now? ItÆs because Playboy Enterprises flooded the market û with 2 results. 1)Corps that really want a lot of cruisers buy BPs from Playboy, taking away the most significant customer base. 2)There are so many producers of cruisers because of Playboy BP flooding that profit margins are in the tank. How much money has you or your corp lost because of the practices Playboy Enterprises? You know as well as I do that you are basically selling the minerals at close to cost in the form of a Moa or a Thorax. ItÆs not just cruisers of course û missiles, weapons, you name it. Now, Playboy Enterprises is in the battleship market. They have already left the cruiser market a wasteland and now it they are steadily destroying the battleship market, which is even more driven by industrialist corps and hard-working individualists. Remember, you may be buying a gun, but you are also shooting yourself in the foot. Ask the cruiser producers what their average profit per sale is. ItÆs hardly worth the time it takes to get together the minerals. The same thing will soon happen to battleship sales thanks to creeps like Heff and Playboy Enterprises that continue to cost the ECONOMY of EVE billions in lost revenue. Yes, this is ôlostö money. Those of you that understand economy know how money can simply evaporate. Yes, Playboy Enterprises makes a ôlittleö money in the sales of the BPs, but in so doing, they are eviscerating hundreds of millions in lost profits for the general population. So it is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness with which Heff runs that company. They are small-time scriveners, huddled in labs, making copies for pennies, hardly enriching themselves while steadily pulling money out of every industrialist in EVE. It is pitiful. I wholeheartedly recommend that all corporations that understand the basics of economics, production, and Intellectual Property dumping boycott Playboy Enterprises, or use this as an opportunity as a casus belli against their corporation. I know I am personally getting together a group of other industrialists who build battleships and we will hunt them if they ever stick their scrivener-gnarled fingers out of a space station. Contact me in game and I will share all intelligence with you on the matter. |
 Neptunus Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:11:00 -
[2] Edited by: Neptunus on 24/07/2003 20:24:34 There are many forms of warfare in EVE, but they all ultimately result in lost ISK to you or your corporation. I am here to tell you about Playboy Enterprises and their active dealings to take literally billions in lost revenue from many corporations of good (and bad) standing in the galaxy. Let me tell you Playboy EnterpriseÆs modus operandi, and this is something that is known in small circles and a scheme I am sure they will readily admit to: They buy blueprints then sell COUNTLESS copies at roughly the price of the product itself. By flooding the market with cheap BP copies, it allows corporations to build internally and not need to use the market at all. In other words, who would buy a cruiser when they can get the BP for just a bit more? Did you ever wonder why it is so hard to make money selling cruisers now? ItÆs because Playboy Enterprises flooded the market û with 2 results. 1)Corps that really want a lot of cruisers buy BPs from Playboy, taking away the most significant customer base. 2)There are so many producers of cruisers because of Playboy BP flooding that profit margins are in the tank. How much money has you or your corp lost because of the practices Playboy Enterprises? You know as well as I do that you are basically selling the minerals at close to cost in the form of a Moa or a Thorax. ItÆs not just cruisers of course û missiles, weapons, you name it. Now, Playboy Enterprises is in the battleship market. They have already left the cruiser market a wasteland and now it they are steadily destroying the battleship market, which is even more driven by industrialist corps and hard-working individualists. Remember, you may be buying a gun, but you are also shooting yourself in the foot. Ask the cruiser producers what their average profit per sale is. ItÆs hardly worth the time it takes to get together the minerals. The same thing will soon happen to battleship sales thanks to creeps like Heff and Playboy Enterprises that continue to cost the ECONOMY of EVE billions in lost revenue. Yes, this is ôlostö money. Those of you that understand economy know how money can simply evaporate. Yes, Playboy Enterprises makes a ôlittleö money in the sales of the BPs, but in so doing, they are eviscerating hundreds of millions in lost profits for the general population. So it is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness with which Heff runs that company. They are small-time scriveners, huddled in labs, making copies for pennies, hardly enriching themselves while steadily pulling money out of every industrialist in EVE. It is pitiful. I wholeheartedly recommend that all corporations that understand the basics of economics, production, and Intellectual Property dumping boycott Playboy Enterprises, or use this as an opportunity as a casus belli against their corporation. I know I am personally getting together a group of other industrialists who build battleships and we will hunt them if they ever stick their scrivener-gnarled fingers out of a space station. Contact me in game and I will share all intelligence with you on the matter. |
 Josephine |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:27:00 -
[3] I do agree that the damage of said practise is undermining the whole playermarket, as both cruisers and now Bships aswell have shown. Ironically the damage done from that hit against the playermarket most likely is even more damaging to the game as a whole as M0o was, afterall m0o used some unbalanced weapons which were fixed, Heff and company however can't be fixed by just changing some stats, they will leave the first level market dead even after CCP hopefully decide to limit BPs. I do give Playboy the honors though, they have managed this feat of destruction of markets without much noise. And for what it's worth, they have also shown that BPs should propably follow some more stricter form of control than just a limit on copies. I guess showing some nice female specimens around will fool corps a plenty of what is going on behind the scenes of playboy. I wonder if Heff has a negative sec status... |
 Josephine Doomheim |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:27:00 -
[4] I do agree that the damage of said practise is undermining the whole playermarket, as both cruisers and now Bships aswell have shown. Ironically the damage done from that hit against the playermarket most likely is even more damaging to the game as a whole as M0o was, afterall m0o used some unbalanced weapons which were fixed, Heff and company however can't be fixed by just changing some stats, they will leave the first level market dead even after CCP hopefully decide to limit BPs. I do give Playboy the honors though, they have managed this feat of destruction of markets without much noise. And for what it's worth, they have also shown that BPs should propably follow some more stricter form of control than just a limit on copies. I guess showing some nice female specimens around will fool corps a plenty of what is going on behind the scenes of playboy. I wonder if Heff has a negative sec status... |
 Jack Hayden |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:57:00 -
[5] The BP issue must be fixed as I see it, there is nothing wrong with copies, but as it was once before, there must be a limit of items produced from a copy BP. Oh, and I am not a manufacturer, but I can see it from their point of view. á "Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT." |
 Jack Hayden Gallente Doomheim |
Posted - 2003.07.24 19:57:00 -
[6] The BP issue must be fixed as I see it, there is nothing wrong with copies, but as it was once before, there must be a limit of items produced from a copy BP. Oh, and I am not a manufacturer, but I can see it from their point of view. á "Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT." |
 Dopey |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:26:00 -
[7] Neptunus, if thatÆs who your really are, you are a complete jackass. I bet youÆre the one who issued all those felony indictments against college kids who have mp3Æs on their hard-drives. Intellectual property? There is no such thing. All information should be free to all. Blueprints should be free, and the closer to free they are the better. Playboy is awesome. Screw the industrialists. IÆm sick of paying so much for ships. It took me almost a week to get into a cruiser. A WEEK! That should be available after 1 maybe 2 days. YouÆre just trying to ruin the experience of the little guys so you can sit on a fat pile of cash and gloat. Well damn you to hell! If all of eve has to suffer to get you off your thrones FINE! Go playboy! IÆm with you to the end. dopey |
 Dopey |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:26:00 -
[8] Neptunus, if thatÆs who your really are, you are a complete jackass. I bet youÆre the one who issued all those felony indictments against college kids who have mp3Æs on their hard-drives. Intellectual property? There is no such thing. All information should be free to all. Blueprints should be free, and the closer to free they are the better. Playboy is awesome. Screw the industrialists. IÆm sick of paying so much for ships. It took me almost a week to get into a cruiser. A WEEK! That should be available after 1 maybe 2 days. YouÆre just trying to ruin the experience of the little guys so you can sit on a fat pile of cash and gloat. Well damn you to hell! If all of eve has to suffer to get you off your thrones FINE! Go playboy! IÆm with you to the end. dopey |
Neptunus |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:36:00 -
[9]
Dopey, you are perhaps the dumbest person I have ever seen on these boards, and that is saying a lot. |
Neptunus Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:36:00 -
[10]
Dopey, you are perhaps the dumbest person I have ever seen on these boards, and that is saying a lot. |
 Discorporation |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:37:00 -
[11] Actually, you should be in a cruiser after a month, perhaps. [Heterocephalus glaber] |
 Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:37:00 -
[12] Actually, you should be in a cruiser after a month, perhaps. |
Heff |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:52:00 -
[13] Edited by: Heff on 24/07/2003 21:29:47 You sound exactly like a guy we recently kicked out of the corp. Is this your lame attempt to get back at me? COMEDY!!! Anyway, I don't even have to read your message to see how shallow it is. You can't blame me for making blueprints available cheaply. I am doing what is best for the parties involved (my corp and its customers). If I stopped selling blueprints tomorrow, someone else would... and they do! The free market ecomony as it exists in EVE encourages people to do whatever they can do to make a profit. If our selling BP copies makes it hard for you to turn a profit, GOOD! That is the nature of competitive business. My #1 priority lies with my corporation, its customers, and its shareholders. If I wreck your ability to sell ships then I am doing my job. If you have a problem with the economy, tell CCP. I am operating within confines of the game like everyone else. If they change the rules, then I will be forced to adapt like everyone else. Good lord man, wake up! Heff President, Playboy Enterprises [email protected] |
 Heff Playboy Enterprises |
Posted - 2003.07.24 20:52:00 -
[14] Edited by: Heff on 24/07/2003 21:29:47 You sound exactly like a guy we recently kicked out of the corp. Is this your lame attempt to get back at me? COMEDY!!! Anyway, I don't even have to read your message to see how shallow it is. You can't blame me for making blueprints available cheaply. I am doing what is best for the parties involved (my corp and its customers). If I stopped selling blueprints tomorrow, someone else would... and they do! The free market ecomony as it exists in EVE encourages people to do whatever they can do to make a profit. If our selling BP copies makes it hard for you to turn a profit, GOOD! That is the nature of competitive business. My #1 priority lies with my corporation, its customers, and its shareholders. If I wreck your ability to sell ships then I am doing my job. If you have a problem with the economy, tell CCP. I am operating within confines of the game like everyone else. If they change the rules, then I will be forced to adapt like everyone else. Good lord man, wake up! Heff President, Playboy Enterprises [email protected] |
 shazam000 |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:01:00 -
[15] Slow down there dopey, if thatÆs who you really are, who wants a flame fest? Neptunus brings up some interesting points. If the profit margin is dropped so severely industrialists will stop making ships. And if they do keep making ships the small profit margin will roll over to the miners, whoÆs mineral wonÆt be worth as much. This will make it difficult for the industrialists, or anyone to get their blueprints from anyone but playboy. And if anyone does manage to get a blueprint from outside playboy, the profit margin will be so low that they will never be able to pay off their investment. Do we want to play in an environment where playboy has a monopoly on blueprints? Playboy is hurting eveÆs economy. Are they breaking any rules to do it? No. The responsibility to fix this falls on the shoulders of eveÆs players. NeptunusÆ suggestion of an embargo is perfect. It will be difficult to formally attack playboy, because they can do business without ever leaving their labs. The best way to stop them, and save eveÆs economy, one of the most unique and fun aspects of this game, is to simply not buy their products. I call on all those who care for the future of this game to join in a boycott against playboy. Do it for yourself, do it for your fellow player. Respectfully Shazam |
 shazam000 Vengeance of the Fallen |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:01:00 -
[16] Slow down there dopey, if thatÆs who you really are, who wants a flame fest? Neptunus brings up some interesting points. If the profit margin is dropped so severely industrialists will stop making ships. And if they do keep making ships the small profit margin will roll over to the miners, whoÆs mineral wonÆt be worth as much. This will make it difficult for the industrialists, or anyone to get their blueprints from anyone but playboy. And if anyone does manage to get a blueprint from outside playboy, the profit margin will be so low that they will never be able to pay off their investment. Do we want to play in an environment where playboy has a monopoly on blueprints? Playboy is hurting eveÆs economy. Are they breaking any rules to do it? No. The responsibility to fix this falls on the shoulders of eveÆs players. NeptunusÆ suggestion of an embargo is perfect. It will be difficult to formally attack playboy, because they can do business without ever leaving their labs. The best way to stop them, and save eveÆs economy, one of the most unique and fun aspects of this game, is to simply not buy their products. I call on all those who care for the future of this game to join in a boycott against playboy. Do it for yourself, do it for your fellow player. Respectfully Shazam |
 Motive |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:32:00 -
[17] 2 words, supply and demand. As supply drops from all these people that get out of the ship business and demand stays constant or rises, price will go up. NPCs probably need to have a fixed need to purchase some ships that scales with number of users in Eve. Since there is no planned obsolesence and no entropy, the Stabber I own now will be just as good a year from now. Heff/Playboy moving in the BB business is the smart thing to do. Our little 4 man corp is only a couple of weeks away from an armageddon BB ourselves. That is the burgeoning market. |
Uncle Enzo |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:32:00 -
[18] Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 24/07/2003 21:33:37 Heff says: "I'm destroying the eve economy - but its within the game design, and it profits me, so the heck with any economy except BP trading, not my problem!" Real nice people these playboy types. |
 Motive Caldari Rampage Eternal |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:32:00 -
[19] 2 words, supply and demand. As supply drops from all these people that get out of the ship business and demand stays constant or rises, price will go up. NPCs probably need to have a fixed need to purchase some ships that scales with number of users in Eve. Since there is no planned obsolesence and no entropy, the Stabber I own now will be just as good a year from now. Heff/Playboy moving in the BB business is the smart thing to do. Our little 4 man corp is only a couple of weeks away from an armageddon BB ourselves. That is the burgeoning market. |
 Uncle Enzo |
Posted - 2003.07.24 21:32:00 -
[20] Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 24/07/2003 21:33:37 Heff says: "I'm destroying the eve economy - but its within the game design, and it profits me, so the heck with any economy except BP trading, not my problem!" Real nice people these playboy types. |
 Lysithea |
Posted - 2003.07.24 22:31:00 -
[21] Edited by: Lysithea on 24/07/2003 22:31:27 Why pick on Heff and Playboy? Everyone is selling BP copies. If they stopped, others would start. This isnÆt a behavioral issue, itÆs mechanical. If it wasnÆt meant to happen, it would have been fixed inside the game mechanics. CCP specifically addressed this issue in a GM chat many weeks or months ago. They donÆt see it as a problem because they know it will resolve itself when research is implemented. Right now, there is just a glut of tech level 1 items. As soon as we have product differentiation, most of this goes away. Regardless, Neptunus, flaming someone else because of your short-sightedness is immature and totally uncalled for. Anyone with your lack of professionalism and market saavy should not be in a corp-minded game.  |
 Lysithea Playboy Enterprises |
Posted - 2003.07.24 22:31:00 -
[22] Edited by: Lysithea on 24/07/2003 22:31:27 Why pick on Heff and Playboy? Everyone is selling BP copies. If they stopped, others would start. This isnÆt a behavioral issue, itÆs mechanical. If it wasnÆt meant to happen, it would have been fixed inside the game mechanics. CCP specifically addressed this issue in a GM chat many weeks or months ago. They donÆt see it as a problem because they know it will resolve itself when research is implemented. Right now, there is just a glut of tech level 1 items. As soon as we have product differentiation, most of this goes away. Regardless, Neptunus, flaming someone else because of your short-sightedness is immature and totally uncalled for. Anyone with your lack of professionalism and market saavy should not be in a corp-minded game. |
 Nootami |
Posted - 2003.07.24 23:48:00 -
[23] Dopey, as a skit in Titus goes... Titus - Tommy, what does the back of my shirt say? Tommy - Titus High Preformance? Titus - Are you Titus? Are you Preformance? ARE YOU HIGH!? Ive never seen a more idiotic (for lack of stronger terminology) statement on these boards. And I have been reading these forums for a long time.
|
 Nootami Amarr Viziam |
Posted - 2003.07.24 23:48:00 -
[24] Dopey, as a skit in Titus goes... Titus - Tommy, what does the back of my shirt say? Tommy - Titus High Preformance? Titus - Are you Titus? Are you Preformance? ARE YOU HIGH!? Ive never seen a more idiotic (for lack of stronger terminology) statement on these boards. And I have been reading these forums for a long time.
|
Uncle Enzo |
Posted - 2003.07.24 23:57:00 -
[25] Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 24/07/2003 23:58:03 Lysithea, Heff is the most obvious and extreme example of a set of people ruining the economy. It is as if you said, "Why pick on the biggest scammer? Everybody scams some". First, it isn't true - lots of people are not going out and breaking the economy. Second, even if it where true, Heff is one of the people to exploit it the most and the worst. He is acting just like Moo: Find a broken game mechanic, then exploit it for all it is worth until the developers get it fixed. He has made an entire corporate business model out of taking one of the most broken things in the Eve mechanics as far as he can. In that sense, Playboy is no better than Moo - Playboy just has better PR, because the way they screw everybody over is much more subtle than how Moo did it. Contrary to what you say, that doesn't speak well for his character or his business practices, it only proves that he is good at gaming the system at the expense of everybody else. |
Uncle Enzo |
Posted - 2003.07.24 23:57:00 -
[26] Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 24/07/2003 23:58:03 Lysithea, Heff is the most obvious and extreme example of a set of people ruining the economy. It is as if you said, "Why pick on the biggest scammer? Everybody scams some". First, it isn't true - lots of people are not going out and breaking the economy. Second, even if it where true, Heff is one of the people to exploit it the most and the worst. He is acting just like Moo: Find a broken game mechanic, then exploit it for all it is worth until the developers get it fixed. He has made an entire corporate business model out of taking one of the most broken things in the Eve mechanics as far as he can. In that sense, Playboy is no better than Moo - Playboy just has better PR, because the way they screw everybody over is much more subtle than how Moo did it. Contrary to what you say, that doesn't speak well for his character or his business practices, it only proves that he is good at gaming the system at the expense of everybody else. |
 Princess Akmazara |
Posted - 2003.07.25 00:07:00 -
[27] I don't have a full understanding of the Playboy way of business but this seems clear - they are flooding the market and thus lowering prices and profits for all. I for one have seen ships drop in price in only my three weeks of EVE gameplay. Princess Akmazara Amarrian Empire |
 Princess Akmazara |
Posted - 2003.07.25 00:07:00 -
[28] I don't have a full understanding of the Playboy way of business but this seems clear - they are flooding the market and thus lowering prices and profits for all. I for one have seen ships drop in price in only my three weeks of EVE gameplay. Princess Akmazara Amarrian Empire |
 Korban Dallas |
Posted - 2003.07.25 00:28:00 -
[29] Geez...what is this? I am the cruiser manufacturer for PB... Yes, the prices for cruisers have come way down.. I don't see it as a result of a flood of cruiser bp copies per se, as I was seeing the prices of the cruisers falling well before the market got saturated with copies. Sure, selling copies is a great way to make cash, but it isn't the only attribute in the decline of profits on cruisers. The most notable factor would be people having large scale mining ops to produce ships. Even during the prime time copy sellage, cruisers were selling for anywhere from 7 mil on up (rupture as a basis, the cheapest, which is 4.7 mil npc prices on mins). When a corp got a few people to go mine the unrares to produce ships, that price per ship drops SIGNIFICANTLY.. So all of a sudden, these people that invest a scant amount of time can rake in an extra 2 to 3 mil, or cut their prices to be the only one selling. Get 5 or 10 corps doing this the market drops out. The thing is, anyone could have done that at any point...PB wasn't the downfall, as there are plenty of bp origs there for you to purchase, at what, 2-3 times the cost of one of our copies? Don't be silly.. Happened the same way in the frigate and indie markets well before the cruiser markets..And PB wasn't involved in those markets to the extent of a cruiser market.. So don't hurl insults at what you don't fully consider or understand. Try and find your own niche, make yur own isk, and stop trying to use playground tactics to sully other's momentum. |
 Korban Dallas Gallente |
Posted - 2003.07.25 00:28:00 -
[30] Geez...what is this? I am the cruiser manufacturer for PB... Yes, the prices for cruisers have come way down.. I don't see it as a result of a flood of cruiser bp copies per se, as I was seeing the prices of the cruisers falling well before the market got saturated with copies. Sure, selling copies is a great way to make cash, but it isn't the only attribute in the decline of profits on cruisers. The most notable factor would be people having large scale mining ops to produce ships. Even during the prime time copy sellage, cruisers were selling for anywhere from 7 mil on up (rupture as a basis, the cheapest, which is 4.7 mil npc prices on mins). When a corp got a few people to go mine the unrares to produce ships, that price per ship drops SIGNIFICANTLY.. So all of a sudden, these people that invest a scant amount of time can rake in an extra 2 to 3 mil, or cut their prices to be the only one selling. Get 5 or 10 corps doing this the market drops out. The thing is, anyone could have done that at any point...PB wasn't the downfall, as there are plenty of bp origs there for you to purchase, at what, 2-3 times the cost of one of our copies? Don't be silly.. Happened the same way in the frigate and indie markets well before the cruiser markets..And PB wasn't involved in those markets to the extent of a cruiser market.. So don't hurl insults at what you don't fully consider or understand. Try and find your own niche, make yur own isk, and stop trying to use playground tactics to sully other's momentum. |
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