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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
728
   |
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
on the mitani dot rag The Goons Evil Overlord wrote:
Single Transferable Vote and You
STV is the new voting system for CSM8, which means that 'overvotes' are a thing of the past. If I had run under a STV system for CSM7, my 10,058 votes would have translated into the top spot for me, as well as #2, 3 and 4 spots for whoever was under my ticket. I advocated against a STV system as I believe it would allow nullsec to completely rig the election with maximal efficiency; Two Step likewise warned against this. CSM8 will be a test of my Cassandra-like warnings. Organization wins elections. Nullsec blocs are the most organized entities in Eve, because the disorganized ones get destroyed. STV gives voters a roster of candidates to rank; your average unaligned voter in hisec will put in maybe one or two candidate names. Your average nullsec voter, motivated by his bloc and their incentives/whipping methods, will fill out the entire ballot based on a voting guide provided to him by his leadership.
IMHO I think it'll be worse for HI SEC representation then mittens predicted unless HI SECers actually go out & vote ( ha ) they will either have 1 or zero reps ( depending on if you think James 315 as being a HI SEC candidate which I don't , if so then 2 or 1 )
Only time will tell if my ( mittiani, and Two Steps ) predictions about CSM becomming a 'NULL only thing' which I often hear it described as in fleets but I think it can be constructively disscussed here in GD...
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2958
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I love how he always has good intentions for the game,
while all the stupid, hypocritical, jealous, sociopath carebears can't do anything else
than calling him the devil himself and how he wants to destroy EvE. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1380
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
TELL us something NEW.
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2747
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
The fact is that getting the HighSec player base to band together to do anything is like herding cats.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
527
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hi-sec will get representation, James 315. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5669
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good, we can get something done in the CSM for once. |
Daimar Lavode
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
I will stick with my past voting practice of clicking "abstain" to show that I am aware of the elections but don't believe they do anything for me or accomplish anything more meaningful than being a PR tool. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
515
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: on the mitani dot rag The Goons Evil Overlord wrote:
Single Transferable Vote and You
STV is the new voting system for CSM8, which means that 'overvotes' are a thing of the past. If I had run under a STV system for CSM7, my 10,058 votes would have translated into the top spot for me, as well as #2, 3 and 4 spots for whoever was under my ticket. I advocated against a STV system as I believe it would allow nullsec to completely rig the election with maximal efficiency; Two Step likewise warned against this. CSM8 will be a test of my Cassandra-like warnings. Organization wins elections. Nullsec blocs are the most organized entities in Eve, because the disorganized ones get destroyed. STV gives voters a roster of candidates to rank; your average unaligned voter in hisec will put in maybe one or two candidate names. Your average nullsec voter, motivated by his bloc and their incentives/whipping methods, will fill out the entire ballot based on a voting guide provided to him by his leadership.
IMHO I think it'll be worse for HI SEC representation then mittens predicted unless HI SECers actually go out & vote ( ha ) they will either have 1 or zero reps ( depending on if you think James 315 as being a HI SEC candidate which I don't , if so then 2 or 1 ) Only time will tell if my ( mittiani, and Two Steps ) predictions about CSM becomming a 'NULL only thing' which I often hear it described as in fleets but I think it can be constructively disscussed here in GD...
Does anyone really care anymore? Except for the Mittens contingent of course.
CSM is a joke, a way for CCP to claim they are involving the player base, while paying off a few players who they think help drive the game.
What has come from the CSM that is actually in the game? Other than fluff of course.
And if null is so highly represented why has 0.0 been broken for years, and nothing done about it? 
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
1500
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:I love how he always has good intentions for the game,
while all the stupid, hypocritical, jealous, sociopath carebears can't do anything else
than calling him the devil himself and how he wants to destroy EvE.
It's because those carebears are too narrow mindedly self interested to see or care about the big picture. That makes them so easy to beat at , well, everything lol.
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1231
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Obviously, the answer is to vote for me 
Steve Ronuken for CSM 8
Handy tools and SDE conversions
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
728
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Good, we can get something done in the CSM for once.
lol CSM & getting something done in the same sentence 
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
728
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:The fact is that getting the HighSec player base to band together to do anything is like herding cats.
Well didn't that spoon throwing Dutch chic get hi sec kitties banded together enough to get herself voted in?
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
Tactical Narcotics Team
743
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
CSM is a joke, and I'll never place a vote...
I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner.
Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall
I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1034
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:The fact is that getting the HighSec player base to band together to do anything is like herding cats.
Herding cats is easy: Open a can of tuna in the place where you want the cats to be.
Hi-Sec'ers, on the other hand, are magnetic mono-poles. They repel each other violently, so can consequently can only go in opposition of their own best interests.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3781
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm not sure what people expect the CSM to "get done".
Their function is to act as a sounding board for CCP, to provide constructive feed back and lend a focus and face to the opinions of the community.
They aren't there to dictate policy to CCP.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I'm not sure what people expect the CSM to "get done".
Their function is to act as a sounding board for CCP, to provide constructive feed back and lend a focus and face to the opinions of the community.
They aren't there to dictate policy to CCP.
You are correct, Sir.
But when has that ever mattered in EVE-O forums?
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1381
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
"CSM Member" is a position that bloggers who think they're awesome "communicators" aspire to.
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3782
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:"CSM Member" is a position that bloggers who think they're awesome "communicators" aspire to.
 Yep, which makes sense. Eloquent communication, both to CCP and to the community is pretty much the name of the game. That and a solid understanding not only of the game mechanics, but of how people use (or will use) them.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime
Kraken.
273
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP is well aware of how the CSM is shifted in favour of nullsec.
CCP's number one priority is to keep all players "comfortable" to the degree they can without scaring away any specific group and they would never let the CSM jeopardize the subscription income brought in by the high sec players.
the CSM is a simple PR tool and will never have any actual saying in the game. The planning and running of this game is done on a white board at CCP. It's done by analysing server statistics and server data that that the CSM doesn't even have access to in the first place.
Yes the CSM will be run by nullsec but the CSM is a joke and the punchline remains that people will work their butts off and spend billions of ISK to gather votes into a position of no authority. It's the high-school student council all over again.
I'm not sure who the joke hits the hardest. The people who "win" the CSM or the doomsayers who worry about what they might do with their supposed "power"
We miss you Saede. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1382
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:"CSM Member" is a position that bloggers who think they're awesome "communicators" aspire to. Yep, which makes sense. Eloquent communication, both to CCP and to the community is pretty much the name of the game. That and a solid understanding not only of the game mechanics, but of how people use (or will use) them.
Not sure if you missed the sarcasm or detected it and cleverly rebutted with additional sarcasm. <_<
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Gotch Urarse
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:The fact is that getting the HighSec player base to band together to do anything is like herding cats.
Herding cats is easy: Open a can of tuna in the place where you want the cats to be. Hi-Sec'ers, on the other hand, are magnetic mono-poles. They repel each other violently, so can consequently can only go in opposition of their own best interests.
maybe if there was only one ice belt in hi-sec... |
Whitehound
1312
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Those who do not like the system can try beating it by getting the most votes. If this is too much effort then they are doing it wrong.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1382
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:CCP ... they would never let the CSM jeopardize the subscription income brought in by the high sec players.
Implying that high-sec players are a majority that are not majorly WH, low-, and null-sec alts.
I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1139
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Those who do not like the system can try beating it by getting the most votes. If this is too much effort then they are doing it wrong.
Beating the system by submitting to it? That makes no sense at all.
Only way to express your displeasure with the CSM its system is to vote abstain.
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1040
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gotch Urarse wrote:silens vesica wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:The fact is that getting the HighSec player base to band together to do anything is like herding cats.
Herding cats is easy: Open a can of tuna in the place where you want the cats to be. Hi-Sec'ers, on the other hand, are magnetic mono-poles. They repel each other violently, so can consequently can only go in opposition of their own best interests. maybe if there was only one ice belt in hi-sec... Gods... James 315 would spoodge. And so would gankers of every stripe. It'd be 'Burn Jita' all day, every day.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime
Kraken.
274
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:CCP ... they would never let the CSM jeopardize the subscription income brought in by the high sec players. Implying that high-sec players are a majority that are not majorly WH, low-, and null-sec alts.
CCP doesn't have to cater to either null or high. They can just do what they do now. Leave it like it is and get both incomes.
We miss you Saede. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2963
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Whitehound wrote:Those who do not like the system can try beating it by getting the most votes. If this is too much effort then they are doing it wrong. Beating the system by submitting to it? That makes no sense at all. Only way to express your displeasure with the CSM its system is to vote abstain. Which is not true at all.
Democracy is bullshit from the getgo, but not voting at all just signals:
Hey, do whatever you want. We don't care about us anyways. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
728
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:CCP is well aware of how the CSM is shifted in favour of nullsec.
CCP's number one priority is to keep all players "comfortable" to the degree they can without scaring away any specific group and they would never let the CSM jeopardize the subscription income brought in by the high sec players.
I take it you base this premise of CCP Infallability because of CCP's awesomeness & spectacluar history of never making anything unbalanced
I do believe it was CCP Soundwave in a Ten Ton Hammer Interview that derailed the ideals of anyone in Eve getting 'too comfortable' and promotes mixing things up ( doctorines, mechanics, ships,etc.. ) every so often
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3783
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:"CSM Member" is a position that bloggers who think they're awesome "communicators" aspire to. Yep, which makes sense. Eloquent communication, both to CCP and to the community is pretty much the name of the game. That and a solid understanding not only of the game mechanics, but of how people use (or will use) them. Not sure if you missed the sarcasm or detected it and cleverly rebutted with additional sarcasm. <_<
I "saw" your sarcasm and raised you a "but that's not actually a bad thing".
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Whitehound
1312
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Whitehound wrote:Those who do not like the system can try beating it by getting the most votes. If this is too much effort then they are doing it wrong. Beating the system by submitting to it? That makes no sense at all. Only way to express your displeasure with the CSM its system is to vote abstain.
I was actually referring to the Single Transferable Vote as it was quoted in the OP.
I personally do not vote for the CSM, because the only candidates I know happen to be players who I do not see myself represented by. I then do not share the fear of high-sec being under-represented.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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