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Captain Jackoff
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.15 14:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
In light of how easily the goons have been able to clear gallente space of ice miners, I say the time has finally come to fix suicide ganking. Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.
I can think of two changes, one of which that should have been made a long time ago.
Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, but they fail at this. I suggest that concord response times are greatly improved. It should still be possible to gank a target, but you'll need more firepower and there's a high risk of concord taking you out before you destroy your target.
These changes won't stop people from ganking each other in hi-sec, but anything that makes it harder will make a huge difference. |
mydingaling
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
aww poor baby |
SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ganking involves loosing a ship (Brutix/Thorax/Tempest/Typhoon, whatever), and getting closer to -10.0 sec status.
That means, you can gank but you'll suffer the consequences.
Working as intended.
Also, tears. Don't provide those, and we'll stop (eventually, cause ganking helpless and worthless pubbies makes us go :smug:).
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Jovan Geldon
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
65
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Captain Jackoff wrote:Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec,
Nope.avi
CONCORD provides consequences, not protection. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think changes need to be made...
To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.
Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such. |
baltec1
92
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities
The bitter is strong in this one. |
Captain Jackoff
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jovan Geldon wrote:Captain Jackoff wrote:Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, Nope.avi CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.
Said consequences are all but meaningless. I was right with what I said, concord is supposed to be a deterance, that doesn't mean they will prevent it from happening, but deter people from doing it. Thanks to insurance and the ease of ganking industrial ships, the current concord does not deter nor provide consequence of any worth.
Buffing industrial ship HP sounds like a good start, why are slow, heavy ships that are designed for industrial activities made of paper? Give mining barges and exhumers a 100% hp increase, or give them more a lot more cpu and grid and a few extra mid slots and a 50% hp increase. |
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
109
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Also, tears. Don't provide those, and we'll stop (eventually, cause ganking helpless and worthless pubbies makes us go :smug:).
Aqriue wrote:What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities
This is one form of those tears... and the tastiest kind in fact, because behind the insanity and retardation is that true mad that only crying so hard you can't breathe brings.
90% of it is for the tears, and as said, if they get none, they go elsewhere. Try remember the first rule of Eve(don't fly what you can't lose), and watch the gank objectively, and give an honest opinion of how they might improve next time, or ask them how a certain mechanic that they exploit works. You will probably learn something, and gain some respect. Or, you will get to savor the sweet tears of a balked griefer yourself If this happens, take a good taste, swish them around a little, and see how the taste. And then you will know why tears are so highly in demand o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
499
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes. It's about time suicide ganking is fixed.
It needs to be much easier than it is right now. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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baltec1
92
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Said consequences are all but meaningless. I was right with what I said, concord is supposed to be a deterance, that doesn't mean they will prevent it from happening, but deter people from doing it. Thanks to insurance and the ease of ganking industrial ships, the current concord does not deter nor provide consequence of any worth.
Buffing industrial ship HP sounds like a good start, why are slow, heavy ships that are designed for industrial activities made of paper? Give mining barges and exhumers a 100% hp increase.
Because every time I undock my industial ships I get attacked.
Oh wai... |
Esagila
22
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death.
But changing the timer? Maybe they could increase the patrols, so that theyGÇÖre hanging around for a week instead of till downtime after being spawned GǪ with the idea that they shouldnGÇÖt need time to arrive to the scene.
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Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Captain Jackoff wrote:Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this..
Its like real life. Cops also usually arrive when you are dead. Fact is Concord cant save you from 1400 mm arty. No one can. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
499
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Esagila wrote:Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death. That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
109
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ogi Talvanen wrote:Captain Jackoff wrote:Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.. Its like real life. Cops also usually arrive when you are dead. Fact is Concord cant save you from 1400 mm arty. No one can. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the US it has been upheld in court time and again that the police have no obligation to protect you. Their job is to protect society, not individuals, and they are to do that by punishing the bad guys....
Interestingly, this sounds VERY familiar o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Exactly. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
5
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I think changes need to be made...
To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.
Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.
I think suicide ganking is fine, but I think the current mechanic is ridiculous. Miners should have better tanks/ships to combat gankers and gankers shouldn't get an insurance payout.
If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk. Otherwise, it's just stupid. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
5
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Esagila wrote:Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death. That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea.
I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit. overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship).
Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
>Isn't it about time suicide ganking was fixed? (Not removed, just made harder).
No.
Well, that was a quick thread.
(They already DID this, back when Jihadswarm started. HARDEN UP, PUBBIES.) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
499
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk. Fun fact: it does, even with insurance.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
125
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I think changes need to be made...
To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank..
Why would it? It's supposed to be weak. You're supposed to have an escort if you're in a dangerous area. And with the Goons around, Gallente Ice Fields are a dangerous area.
I'm really sorry your guys' Ice Miner Bot Alts got ganked, but that's the chances you take when you run an AFK Bot.
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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
110
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Tippia wrote:Esagila wrote:Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death. That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea. I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit. overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship). Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord.
It would happen almost as much, because yes, your tears are in fact that tasty. Every single time someone gets upset, it justifies every single cost involved in getting those tears to flow, because you must achieve op success at any cost.
Tears(anyone but their own, honestly) just make them want to do it again... Once again, no matter the cost.
Oh, and from experience, a corpies tears because a gank failed, or because you thought being ganked was actually kinda cool when he was going through saltwater withdrawals are almost as tasty as yours, just harder to get(its so easy to make highseccers cry) o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk. Fun fact: it does, even with insurance. Quote:I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit. SoGǪ why should it be disincentivised? And why should it only be profitable under rare circumstances? Quote:overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship). Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord. Why?
The hilarious thing is that Mittani called this one right off weeks ago. Highsec carebears literally cannot grasp the concept that this isn't about isk. It's about having fun.
Just wait until the stockpiles of Bot mined Oxytopes run out in a week or two. Oh god, then we're gonna have some delicious forum rage when people go to fill their Gallente POSes and the market absolutely collapses... |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xython wrote:
Why would it? It's supposed to be weak. You're supposed to have an escort if you're in a dangerous area.
Tactics that makes no sense in current game mechanics: Check.
Xython wrote: And with the Goons around, Gallente Ice Fields are a dangerous area.
Self Gratification(the only kind a Goon understands): Check.
Xython wrote: I'm really sorry your guys' Ice Miner Bot Alts got ganked, but that's the chances you take when you run an AFK Bot.
Baseless Accusation: Check
Bonus Points: A member Goonswarm condemning botting.
The results: definitely your average Goon post.
|
Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
200
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.
I personally vote for the removal of Insurance all together. It is bad for the game, its bad for the economy. Subsidized ships make people dependent on in game subsidization, dependance is bad. People don't really feel the pain of lost. Making to many ships disposable.
Subsidized ships are bad...Vote no to subsidized ships! Vote no to Insurance.
Lets remove it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
596
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Captain Jackoff wrote:In light of how easily the goons have been able to clear gallente space of ice miners, I say the time has finally come to fix suicide ganking. Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.
I can think of two changes, one of which that should have been made a long time ago.
Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, but they fail at this. I suggest that concord response times are greatly improved. It should still be possible to gank a target, but you'll need more firepower and there's a high risk of concord taking you out before you destroy your target.
These changes won't stop people from ganking each other in hi-sec, but anything that makes it harder will make a huge difference.
No Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
250
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Definitely agree that insurance should go away entirely. |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Epiphaniess wrote: I personally vote for the removal of Insurance all together. It is bad for the game, its bad for the economy. Subsidized ships make people dependent on in game subsidization, dependance is bad. People don't really feel the pain of lost. Making to many ships disposable.
Subsidized ships are bad...Vote no to subsidized ships! Vote no to Insurance.
Lets remove it.
Subsidized!!!?
That Republican for Communism!
Get rid of it... Hurry!
/Seriously though I agree, bad mechanic.
|
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think we need more insurance and less tank on industrial ships! |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
125
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Posted - 2011.10.15 16:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Xython wrote:
Why would it? It's supposed to be weak. You're supposed to have an escort if you're in a dangerous area.
Tactics that makes no sense in current game mechanics: Check. - SNIP - Bonus Points: A member Goonswarm condemning botting. The results: definitely your average Goon post.
Yes, cause Goons bot all the time. In fact, I'm actually a really, really complex dictionary script. BadPoster3000 2.1 Alpha. Fnord brisk, Blood orange away!
Silly pubbie. Botting is against the Goonswarm rules, and the last thing I'd do is break the Goonswarm rules.
As for "the tactic" (having a bodyguard), it actually does make perfect sense... as long as you're not a fat lazy AFK mining pubbie with an entitlement complex who feels he should be able to just set up his ice miner bot and come back a few billion isk richer.
But I'll bite. What "current game mechanics" exist that suggest that having an escort, or a remote rep logistics ship, or something similar covering your six no longer works? Remember, "fat lazy afk pubbie" isn't a mechanic, it's a character flaw.
I can't wait to see you carebears trying to wrap your cute little heads around the idea of needing a bodyguard and scouts and crap when they move all Ice to nullsec. You guys are going to have nervous breakdowns. Especially cause when that happens, it won't be one Brutix suicide ganking you. It'll be 20 of them. With bubbles and tackle. |
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