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Ivy Romanova
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
849
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 04:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
The imps CRIES for NERF NERF NERF , OMG SO OP . I can't PvP derp derp . Caldari OP.
At first , people might ignore them as mere cry babies ... but perhaps ... there is a point inside that pile of dung.
The current jamming is based on chance. You are either jammed , or you are not . Any introduction of chance into a game is a GAME BREAKER.
I therefore propose this.
When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.
Thus increasing his locking time.
When the jamming strength is larger or equal to his sensor strength. His sensor strength will tends toward 0 and he will no longer be able to lock on. Forever cynical.Forever human. |
Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
57
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 04:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote:
When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.
Thus increasing his locking time.
That's a remote sensor dampener. Re-elect Trebor Daehdoow for a stronger CSM 8. |
Ivy Romanova
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
849
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 05:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Friggz wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote:
When an ECM module is applied to an entity . It takes a hit off his sensor strength , which in turns REDUCE his sensor resolution.
Thus increasing his locking time.
That's a remote sensor dampener.
But a remote sensor dampening lengthen the times needed for you to lock on , a jammer gives the enemy a CHANCE of you not being able to lock on .
Both have a similar purpose of denying the enemy the chance of retaliation . Both serves a similar purpose. One is based on chance , the other is based on predictable mathematics.
And to remove the plague of probability , we MUST merge them together . Forever cynical.Forever human. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1174
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 05:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Make it a reduction of max locked targets and you have something new. Probably needs a number lower than 1 per module. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1959
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 05:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just implement diminishing returns, resets every time the target warps out, problem solved.
also, wrong subforum. "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
120
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Posted - 2013.03.28 05:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
In before move
Because everyone has their own opinion on the subject of ECM. How about instead of jamming
One of the modules targets high slots making them take longer to cycle One of the modules targets mid slots making them cycle faster One of the modules targets low slots making them cycle faster One of the modules picks targets randomly between mid and low One of the modules just gets removed
counter measures are now passive/buffer modules (since they can't be sped up) and fast cycling weapons. counter ecm is now a module that you activate that immediately turns off a module with no cycle penalty. Projected ECM adds a "charge" to a ship that soaks up an action of ECM. ECM now is 100% but chooses a slot at random.
Do appologise if this makes no sense, I am on painkiller medication. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
561
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 05:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Ivy Romanova
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
849
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 05:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......
There are , but the very notion of adding elements of chance to something is stupid . Thats why I am advocating the merging of ECM and sensor damps Forever cynical.Forever human. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
575
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 06:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them.......
Chance based gameplay is bad.
If I wanted to test my luck I'd play the slot machine. |
Ivy Romanova
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
849
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 06:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:Sorry, dumbest idea ever, there are mods and skills to combat ECM, if your to lazy to use them....... Chance based gameplay is bad. If I wanted to test my luck I'd play the slot machine.
Whenever I see people opposing change , I think of this cartoon Forever cynical.Forever human. |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1229
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 06:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
There already was a change. Four of them, in fact:
Gravimetric sensor compensation skill Magnetometric sensor compensation skill Radar sensor compensation skill LADAR sensor compensation skill
See? No extra modules required after all.
Live Events are neither. |
Ivy Romanova
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
850
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 06:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:There already was a change. Four of them, in fact:
Gravimetric sensor compensation skill Magnetometric sensor compensation skill Radar sensor compensation skill LADAR sensor compensation skill
See? No extra modules required after all.
That is worse :P Nerfing does it equal to fixing Forever cynical.Forever human. |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
726
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 09:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
ECM warfare has been overpowered in comparison to all other EWAR and needed a nerf for a long time now.
Now that the facts have been cleared up, how about discussing HOW that nerf should happen instead of IF? Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2232
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 09:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
I say decrease the cycle time but lower the strength.
ECM hits more often but is less likely to succeed while also giving the target a chance to try re-locking sooner. The Drake is a Lie |
Ravnik
Choke-Hold
6076
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 10:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Get rid of ECM altogether. Lets have proper fleet fights where its just a mass brawl The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.......... |
saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Diasaster
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 10:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.
Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.
With these new sensor backup skills around now many more ships will have a higher sensor strength making them hard to jam, CCP have already nerfed the range of ECM into the ground as well as offering substantial buffs to ships sensors.
I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?
I remember the days of sitting out at almost 200km in a falcon jamming things then warping off and coming back doing the same as soon as tackle got close, that needed nerfing. Current mechanics are fine find something else to cry about, caldari are already pretty bad as it is!
Once ECM has been squashed I'd put money on the fact the cry-babies will set their eyes on sensor damps and arazu's scrambling and dampening a ship down blah blah....... If this trend of "balancing" continues we will all be flying yellow, blue, green and red space bricks all looking the same, fitting the same acting the same, ships and more importantly races need their "op" ships as a draw to that race. \'''\<(o_O)>/'''/ |
Fearghaz Tiwas
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL Circle-Of-Two
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
saltrock0000 wrote:I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.
Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.
With these new sensor backup skills around now many more ships will have a higher sensor strength making them hard to jam, CCP have already nerfed the range of ECM into the ground as well as offering substantial buffs to ships sensors.
I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?
I remember the days of sitting out at almost 200km in a falcon jamming things then warping off and coming back doing the same as soon as tackle got close, that needed nerfing. Current mechanics are fine find something else to cry about, caldari are already pretty bad as it is!
Once ECM has been squashed I'd put money on the fact the cry-babies will set their eyes on sensor damps and arazu's scrambling and dampening a ship down blah blah....... If this trend of "balancing" continues we will all be flying yellow, blue, green and red space bricks all looking the same, fitting the same acting the same, ships and more importantly races need their "op" ships as a draw to that race.
Well said that man. People love to get the nerf bat out as soon as something might mean they have to consider changing their play-style a little bit, it's bad for the game. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1187
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote:In before move
Because everyone has their own opinion on the subject of ECM. How about instead of jamming
One of the modules targets high slots making them take longer to cycle One of the modules targets mid slots making them cycle faster One of the modules targets low slots making them cycle faster One of the modules picks targets randomly between mid and low One of the modules just gets removed
counter measures are now passive/buffer modules (since they can't be sped up) and fast cycling weapons. counter ecm is now a module that you activate that immediately turns off a module with no cycle penalty. Projected ECM adds a "charge" to a ship that soaks up an action of ECM. ECM now is 100% but chooses a slot at random.
Do appologise if this makes no sense, I am on painkiller medication.
This is actually quite a good idea. Anti-module jammers that randomly turn something off. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
Zindale
Spias Inc. SPIAS LIKE US
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
First this should of been posted in feature and ideas
To Start ECM chance base was brought in because everyone cried that ECM was over powered as the modules used to used it's attributes to jam a target. Then CCP brought in the chance base and still people cry
I say bring the old ECM back then modify the atributes to make ECM more in- line with other EWAR
Ravnik wrote:Get rid of ECM altogether. Lets have proper fleet fights where its just a mass brawl
As to to Ravnik if you are getting rid of ECM then you should get rid of ALL EWAR. then let see who starts crying when pvp'er can not lock down plays cause they have on scrams and webbies.
Lets be sensible about things here ECM is Part of the great fabric of Eve, all that is needed here is to make the ECM counters useful which can not happen if ECM stays chance base.
ECM has to go back to how it used to work and then make ECCM work as it is supposed to do. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1187
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
saltrock0000 wrote: I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?
This is a stupid thing to say. While I appreciate the sentiment, there is no reason to fit ECCM past defence against ECM modules, which you may not ever encounter in a fight. It's luck as to what the enemy brings.
This guy put it well, ages ago:
TheBreadMuncher wrote: Because the only way to counter ECM is to fit to counter ECM. This completely gimps your fit, while at the same time means you've wasted a slot if you don't encounter ECM.
Let me put it this way:
Sensor dampening: You can fit a sensor booster, which also increases your lock time and lock range. Energy neutralizing: You can fit a cap booster, which will be very useful for keeping you alive in any real fight. Tracking disruption: You can web your enemy and fit more tracky ammo, both of which will mean you hit while disrupted. Target painting: Lol. Man up and take slightly more damage. Webbing: Gotta go fast. Pointing: Commit to the fight.
Then we come to ECM: ECM: Fit a gimpy module which only decreases the chance of you being locked down, not stops it, and wastes a slot because it has no other beneficial effect.
CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
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Nova Satar
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
i will always oppose ECM, it takes people completely out the game which is jsut wrong. But until CCP start to comprehend that people do fly in gangs of 5 and less, they will never understand how crippling ECM is to pvp.
Yesterday i was in a 3 man BS gang, and all 3 of us were perma jammed by a Scorpion from 130km away, we all had ECCM.....
CCPs view seems to be that on the whole its not that bad as they cant jam "everyone", but its becuase they think everyone is rocking aroudn in 30man fleets. If you have 6-7 people tops, and a falcon comes on field, you are ALL going to get jammed. End of story. |
Stan'din
Incursion Squad Punkz 'n Monkeys
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
saltrock0000 wrote:I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.
Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.
With these new sensor backup skills around now many more ships will have a higher sensor strength making them hard to jam, CCP have already nerfed the range of ECM into the ground as well as offering substantial buffs to ships sensors.
I admit being perma jammed is frustrating and annoying, but there are modules (backup arrays) to pretty much make you unjamable. So maybe spare a slot and fit one if it bugs you so much?
I remember the days of sitting out at almost 200km in a falcon jamming things then warping off and coming back doing the same as soon as tackle got close, that needed nerfing. Current mechanics are fine find something else to cry about, caldari are already pretty bad as it is!
Once ECM has been squashed I'd put money on the fact the cry-babies will set their eyes on sensor damps and arazu's scrambling and dampening a ship down blah blah....... If this trend of "balancing" continues we will all be flying yellow, blue, green and red space bricks all looking the same, fitting the same acting the same, ships and more importantly races need their "op" ships as a draw to that race.
And lets be honest for PVP Caldari are not really overlyplayed compared to Gaymatar, French and the Religious douchebags
ECM is the Caldari's strong point and it should stay like that. Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican. |
Nova Satar
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:I say decrease the cycle time but lower the strength.
ECM hits more often but is less likely to succeed while also giving the target a chance to try re-locking sooner.
.....But then being jammed again before you can relock
|
Stan'din
Incursion Squad Punkz 'n Monkeys
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nova Satar wrote:Xercodo wrote:I say decrease the cycle time but lower the strength.
ECM hits more often but is less likely to succeed while also giving the target a chance to try re-locking sooner. .....But then being jammed again before you can relock
If your so hum drum about being jammed, how about you bring your own ECM to the party .
you know by using that thing called a brain you might actually get somewhere Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican. |
Nova Satar
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
saltrock0000 wrote:I'm sorry but all these people still crying for ECM nerfs are just idiotic and have never flown ECM.
Last time I'm going to explain this, a ship has a strength of say 7 on his jammer, target ship has a sensor strength of say 14 which neither are far fetched numbers. In this instance the jammers would jam 7 times out of 14, 7:14.... so 50% chance, now with their cycle time a 50% chance isn't as great as it sounds.
This is just such bullshit though and i cannot believe anybody who believes this has ever participated in PVP.
Standard maxskill Geddon = 20 Sensor Strength Falcon max skill with White noise jammer = 11 Strength
There is no way in hell he will only Jam you ~50% of the time. He will Jam you 9 times out of 10, if not more! Everyone who regularly pvps will know this.
Currently the best counter is Damps, but when scorpions can jam you from 150km, unless you;ve filled your mids with sensor boosters, eccm and damps then theres **** all you can do. Plus you wont have any room left for a point anyway. |
Stan'din
Incursion Squad Punkz 'n Monkeys
58
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Posted - 2013.03.28 12:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
" bring your own ECM to the party "
Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican. |
saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Diasaster
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 13:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nova Satar wrote:This is just such bullshit though and i cannot believe anybody who believes this has ever participated in PVP.
Standard maxskill Geddon = 20 Sensor Strength Falcon max skill with White noise jammer = 11 Strength
There is no way in hell he will only Jam you ~50% of the time. He will Jam you 9 times out of 10, if not more! Everyone who regularly pvps will know this.
Currently the best counter is Damps, but when scorpions can jam you from 150km, unless you;ve filled your mids with sensor boosters, eccm and damps then there's **** all you can do. Plus you wont have any room left for a point anyway.
11 and 20.... so 11:20... so what 51%? Maybe you just get very very very unlucky in your pvp.
Oh and if you want to play the "never pvp'd noob" argument check my stats then come back
People should really learn how to counter mechanics, instead of QQing and screaming for nerfs.
Scorpion 150km off group... that's a rather handy warp to range isn't it!..... 4 scanner probes and a instant warp to will silence that scorpion pretty quickly. Or hey Snipe him.... Or move the battle field to a planet/another gate/station etc., or like you said dampen his lock range.
There are infinite ways to counter different ships, instantly claiming something's OP and coming on forums wanting a nerf is just the sign of a bad pvper I'm afraid.
Next its going to be, "I cant hit that frigate with my dreadnaught... MOAR SPEED NERFS!!!!" \'''\<(o_O)>/'''/ |
Salana Drashen
Setenta Corp AL3XAND3R.
1
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Posted - 2013.03.28 13:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nova Satar wrote: Standard maxskill Geddon = 20 Sensor Strength Falcon max skill with White noise jammer = 11 Strength
There is no way in hell he will only Jam you ~50% of the time. He will Jam you 9 times out of 10, if not more! Everyone who regularly pvps will know this.
Said by someone who has clearly never flown an ECM ship, nor has any clue about probability.
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saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Diasaster
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 13:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Salana Drashen wrote:Nova Satar wrote: Standard maxskill Geddon = 20 Sensor Strength Falcon max skill with White noise jammer = 11 Strength
There is no way in hell he will only Jam you ~50% of the time. He will Jam you 9 times out of 10, if not more! Everyone who regularly pvps will know this.
Said by someone who has clearly never flown an ECM ship, nor has any clue about probability.
Also a true EFT warrior \'''\<(o_O)>/'''/ |
Nova Satar
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 13:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Stan'din wrote:Nova Satar wrote:Xercodo wrote:I say decrease the cycle time but lower the strength.
ECM hits more often but is less likely to succeed while also giving the target a chance to try re-locking sooner. .....But then being jammed again before you can relock If your so hum drum about being jammed, how about you bring your own ECM to the party . you know by using that thing called a brain you might actually get somewhere
What so all of us can sit there jammed doing nothing? Sounds fun. Some people actually want fights, but at times its like running against a brick wall becuase of people with mindsets like yours.
Lets face it, every ECM thread is jsut falcon pilots and small gang pvpers whining at each other. Its slowly get nerfed though, and i just hope it continues. I dont actually mind getting jammed, what gets me is the mindset of the ECM pilots who want to sit at range with complete immunity and think their part of a fight
saltrock0000 wrote:Oh and if you want to play the "never pvp'd noob" argument check my stats then come back
And seriously, don't embarrass yourself. 95% of your entire stat value is made up of you being one of 400 whores in a single cap fight in 2010. |
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