I feel no compulsion to be the enabler of someone else's bloated sense of entitlement, self-importance and alcohol problems.

Why your CSM8 vote doesn't matter...

No abstain option... how interesting...

I feel no compulsion to be the enabler of someone else's bloated sense of entitlement, self-importance and alcohol problems.

cause all the contenders ulimately work for goonswarm?

No abstain option... how interesting...

Sum of it.

Not any independents in the bunch.

I feel no compulsion to be the enabler of someone else's bloated sense of entitlement, self-importance and alcohol problems.

Sum of it.

Not any independents in the bunch.

It's Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed is the Goonie leader.

I like Greene Lee though, because she outlined something very important to me -- better customer service. That's something any gamer regardless of political stripe can benefit from. Plus, insulting her ESL was enough for me to want to vote for her. International game and folks whine that her English isn't perfect for them. Snots need to be taught a lesson, big time.

I work for Goonswarm?

Why did no-one tell me? Where's my cheque!?

Sum of it.

Not any independents in the bunch.

Its in the mail, I promise.

You're either stupid or you're trolling and stupid. Which is it?

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

Jack? Is that you?

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

You're no Ross Perot.

So until your balls descend, please don't tell others they're trolling or stupid.

What's stupid is acting as an independent.

You're no Ross Perot.

So until your balls descend, please don't tell others they're trolling or stupid.

What's stupid is acting as an independent.

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

Why because the CSM have any kind of say on what CCP does?

If the CSM mattered or had any kind of control or say no matter how small on the direction that CCP takes or the decisions that CCP make then yeah you have no right to moan if you did not vote.

However since the CSM is nothing more than a PR exercise and is full of people who have terrible ideas (yes Trebor I am looking at you) or a chairman that has been awol for the past 4 months then you vote doesn't matter as it makes no difference.

being cynical doesn't make you right.

Doesn't make me wrong either

Why because the CSM have any kind of say on what CCP does?

If the CSM mattered or had any kind of control or say no matter how small on the direction that CCP takes or the decisions that CCP make then yeah you have no right to moan if you did not vote.

However since the CSM is nothing more than a PR exercise and is full of people who have terrible ideas (yes Trebor I am looking at you) or a chairman that has been awol for the past 4 months then you vote doesn't matter as it makes no difference.

Why because the CSM have any kind of say on what CCP does?

If the CSM mattered or had any kind of control or say no matter how small on the direction that CCP takes or the decisions that CCP make then yeah you have no right to moan if you did not vote.

However since the CSM is nothing more than a PR exercise and is full of people who have terrible ideas (yes Trebor I am looking at you) or a chairman that has been awol for the past 4 months then you vote doesn't matter as it makes no difference.

I think that if you believe that the CSM is nothing more than a PR exercise and a group that CCP ignores outright, you missed the entirety of CSM6.

CSM 7's problems (as well documented as they are) come from a lack of leadership at the outset, mostly due to the fact that everyone expected the Mittani to return for a second term as chair, coupled with what people see as a missing chair now.

The thing to understand about the CSM, is that it can't simply be an "I win" button. Even if null sec candidates sweep all 14 spaces, to think that they would act in a way detrimental to other portions of space is ludicrous. You don't make null sec better by destroying high sec. You don't improve w-space living at the expense of faction warfare players. I see so many people out there that believe if the entire nullsec candidate slate is elected, that they'd simply turn around and go with the following thought process blindly.

1. Does it make high sec life more miserable? If yes, push it as the CSM's agenda.
2. Discuss any ideas that have no idea on high sec, and come up with a real opinion.

No where is that the case. Turning the game into a miserable experience for a group of players should not be done through the very representation of those players, regardless of who they voted for. The CSM still stands to represent all of the players and act in their best interests, and if council members behave otherwise, they shouldn't be part of the CSM.

It's also worth noting that even the Goon/HBC voting list contains a couple of "hi-sec" candidates.

No where is that the case. Turning the game into a miserable experience for a group of players should not be done through the very representation of those players, regardless of who they voted for. The CSM still stands to represent all of the players and act in their best interests, and if council members behave otherwise, they shouldn't be part of the CSM.

oh yeah the jump bridge nerf that came about when CCP asked hisec miner CSMs "well how do you guys feel about jump bridges"

in what way were they nerfed?
(i think i'm too new to know about that nerf)

They were changed from allowing 2 in a system to 1.

Previously null sec players in large alliances travelled via JB's mostly and gates at the ends, or when they needed to switch JB chains. Now they have to jump a gate between each bridge.

It was put in the game in the belief that it would cause more PvP at the gates. In reality, its simply made people watch intel channels more, use alternate routes and has hurt PvP because of the reduced capability of reaction fleets to catch up or encircle hostiles as well as doubling travel time for roaming fleets to get to hunting grounds.

They were changed from allowing 2 in a system to 1.

Previously null sec players in large alliances travelled via JB's mostly and gates at the ends, or when they needed to switch JB chains. Now they have to jump a gate between each bridge.

It was put in the game in the belief that it would cause more PvP at the gates. In reality, its simply made people watch intel channels more, use alternate routes and has hurt PvP because of the reduced capability of reaction fleets to catch up or encircle hostiles as well as doubling travel time for roaming fleets to get to hunting grounds.

i see.
not as horrific as it could have been but still a rather pointless change.
thanks.

Since you've already spent longer than it would take to vote explaining why you're not voting, you are irrational unless you can demonstrate that voting would actively harm you.

Voting/participation in a system is giving it your implicit consent. If you don't agree that a system should even exist, not voting is one of the only things you can do. That and possibly abstention (if you're allowed to give a reason and if you believe that reason will actually be wanted by the powers asking for it), but there is no abstain option for this election vOv.

Irrational in this case would be voting for the sake of it even though you don't believe in the institution itself (to say nothing of the candidates vying for positions in said institution).

The correct response is to run as or vote for a candidate on a platform of disbanding the CSM.

But most people who are against the CSM are against it on the basis of unsupported assumptions that are almost always directly contradicted by the evidence, and often by their own assumptions.

You know, like people who say that the CSM is powerless and irrelevent, then in the same breath blame the CSM for things like the jump bridge nerf.

The correct response is to run as or vote for a candidate on a platform of disbanding the CSM.

But most people who are against the CSM are against it on the basis of unsupported assumptions that are almost always directly contradicted by the evidence, and often by their own assumptions.

You know, like people who say that the CSM is powerless and irrelevent, then in the same breath blame the CSM for things like the jump bridge nerf.

A simpler statement is this. By not participating in the institution, you make the voices of those who do stronger.

How exactly is a lower voting turnout going to make the CSM's voice stronger?

It's not. But it is going to make the voice of those who did vote stronger than yours.

If that's your choice, so be it. I won't even attempt to change your mind. The only way to accomplish your goal, outside of running on a campaign plank of eliminating the CSM, is to drive turnout to near zero, and CSM election turnout has continued to rise over the years. I wish you luck in accomplishing that.

Doesn't make me wrong either

. If you just want their vote and nothing more, you might as well drop the pretense and just pay them for it.

No, it isn't a horrific nerf, but it did make things a headache for logistics people and in no way accomplished its stated goals, and in fact, hindered them.

That's the problem. This was looked at strictly from the side of low and high sec small gang folks who see fights as "gates" and didn't realize that there are dozens of other ways of engaging people in null, even with the bridges. It's a complete "unintended consequences" thing that made life worse for nearly ALL of null sec, made logistics harder, made fueling bridges harder (Though it was partially offset with the increase in fuel capacity) and really didn't improve what it intended to improve. They thought that they'd be able to go deep into fountain and set up bubbles undetected on a gate and catch ship after ship. Reality and intelligence obviously said otherwise.

But I've been paying for votes since the day endorsements opened. And the offer remains open until voting closes.

Can I write in a vote?

Cause.... yech!

As a side note, nobody expected you to be happy about it so it's no surprise you believe the nerf did not have the desired effect. The reality of that is a bit different.

You might also consider that if you can't seem to intercept intruders or get to the area of a fight quickly enough under the current system, then you are over extended and attempting to hold more space than you are capable of. Time to scale back a bit.

Fast and effortless shifting of force over long distances has done more harm to EvE and it's Sov system than anything else short of the current system for distributing moo goo. The highway system in Empire hasn't done the economy any favors either.

I don't want to threadjack this anymore, so I'll leave it at this.

The purpose of the change was to promote more PVP by promoting more gate travel. It didn't.

To state that null sec entities are overextended would almost be a logical argument except for the fact that a lot of combat in null happens for the sake of combat, not for sovereignty. Fatal Ascension doesn't roam to Fountain because we want fountain. We roam to fountain because we want to blow up ships in a fun way. I'd argue that over 95% of fleet fights (of all sizes) in null sec have absolutely nothing to do with sov. The largest null sec fight in recent memory (Asakai) had *ZERO* to do with sov.

What it did do was make FiS more tedious and less exciting as you had to go further for fights. And it made reacting harder as you couldn't move as quickly to the other side of your space.

The fact is, when it comes to sov warfare, you can remove every single jump bridge and it will still occur. Holding that space *IS* valuable, otherwise it wouldn't be done.

When it comes to skirmish fights, and other "fun", the jump bridge change has had a negative impact. It was a failure. The unintended consequence was greater negative then the positive it was supposed to promote.

Agreed on the thread jacking, but your post did more to prove my point than disprove it.

A couple of things to consider.

1: The easier it is for a defending fleet to move massive forces into place to defend territory, the more you devalue the strengths of the typically smaller, faster fleets moving to harrass that territory. It promotes the blob, and makes small and fast raiding parties less effective (or desireable).

2: The higher your level of Sov (and the more space under your sov) the more lucurative your space should be, however (from a game mechanic point of view) the less able you should be to effectively actively defend all of it. This serves the purpose of making a high level of sov desireable from a financial point of view, and also encourages (and enables) other entities to try and take it away from you. This should be the cornerstone of any sov changes in the future.

I don't want to come off trying to get in the last word on the matter (there is a lot of room for debate), so perhaps we should take this up in another thread. My apologies for the derail.

Now back to our regularly scheduled political grudge match.

There is a difference between what looks good on paper and what actually happens. What actually happened if that the jump bridge change (which I was all in favor of) ended up putting a damper on some pvp activities. The old scheme was flawed and let people skip across the stars, but it was realyl useful for defense fleets and offered some amazing advantages if you wanted to catch up to a enemy roaming gang.

Nowadays if the gang we're chasing gets more than 3 jumps ahead and we have to use more than 1 JB to 0" close the door", the window of oppurtunity is so much smaller, because jumping from a gate, going to another gate, jumping, then going to the next bridge takes so much longer than the old scheme of just warp to the other bridge in system.

In other words, fight to would have occurred under the old scheme don't happen as much now. For a game that needs pvp losses to drive it's economy, that's just not a good outcome.

Philosophically it was the right idea (the JB nerf), but view more practically, it's been IMO a net negative. Because when I was in Raiden and we'd joined with the Russians to fight the old NC Empire, the fact that they could move sub-caps so fast meant lots of great fights for us. Since that time I've been in other alliances and other conflicts and it just seems like the lost sub-cap mobility has put a damper on the tempo of null sec warfare.

Mangala and Psychotic Monk aren't pro-themepark WoW in Space candidates, so they're not true hisec candidates!

You should attempt to get elected to the CSM to attempt to disband the CSM because of your belief that the CSM is worthless and powerless? What was that about irrational again?

It's certainly more rational than spending time trying to kill the CSM by ineffectual forum whining.

Interesting... then by that arguement James 315 would not have been a Hi Sec candidate & extended further HE IS NOT THE TRUE SAVIOR OF TRUE HISEC

Well since you're actively supporting the goonswarm campaign by discouraging people to vote for other candidates, I'm going to go with stupid.

For someone that likes solo/small gang pvp, there is noone to vote for.

Sum of it.

Not any independents in the bunch.

It's Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed is the Goonie leader.

I like Greene Lee though, because she outlined something very important to me -- better customer service. That's something any gamer regardless of political stripe can benefit from. Plus, insulting her ESL was enough for me to want to vote for her. International game and folks whine that her English isn't perfect for them. Snots need to be taught a lesson, big time.

lol that's gave me an idea for an interesting campaign slogan: Not voting is a vote for Goonswarm

It's perfectly rational. Get 14 people who don't want a CSM elected, they all refuse to participate: the CSM will be effectively killed.

It's certainly more rational than spending time trying to kill the CSM by ineffectual forum whining.

I work for Goonswarm?

Why did no-one tell me? Where's my cheque!?

Who had a year to do something about customer service but hasnt said anything about it outside his campaign ;) (love you Greene, but sry)

Why your CSM8 vote doesn't matter...

Because you didn't vote.
Now go vote &make it matter

Maybe if you gave more info ........ like how to access the voting ballot.




DMC

Good point http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/vote/

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

Your vote in the CSM Election was anonymously registered at 06.04.2013 00:59:04.

I can now complain about everything till the next vote right?

OK, I see you added that info to the op, good job.



DMC

yoku dekimashita

Well since you're actively supporting the goonswarm campaign by discouraging people to vote for other candidates, I'm going to go with stupid.

Let me know when you've internalised the revolutionary concept of judging ideas on their merits, rather than their source.

Your vote in the CSM Election was anonymously registered at 06.04.2013 00:59:04.

I can now complain about everything till the next vote right?

Your vote in the CSM Election was anonymously registered at 06.04.2013 00:59:04.

I can now complain about everything till the next vote right?

Careful, if you keep pointing out all of the flaws in his logic his fuzzy little head might explode from the stress.

Because you didn't vote.
Now go vote &make it matter

Do you honestly believe that the CSMs have any say or influence at all? I would just love to be the interviewer reading someones CV that had "I was a CSM in EvE" listed as an accomplishment.

Did you completely miss CSM6? Monocle gate? The fact that CCP called the CSM to Iceland to talk face to face about what they did wrong and how to fix it?

No abstain option... how interesting...

It's always funny how the CSM takes credit for things that were spread over the forums and other sources far and wide before any of them came into the picture. The CSM is a pure PR and Marketing tool, nothing else.

And let me ask you a simple question. What do you think CCP will be influenced more by? The people they bring to specifically spend face time with them, or someone posting on a forum.

And let me ask you a simple question. What do you think CCP will be influenced more by? The people they bring to specifically spend face time with them, or someone posting on a forum.

If those are the only two choices then people posting on the forums would be a better choice. The CSMs will simply ignore anything that isn't something they want or like.

Example: A CSM from Goon or New Order is unlikely to bring concerns from hi-sec miners to the attention of CCP .

Do you honestly believe that the CSMs have any say or influence at all? I would just love to be the interviewer reading someones CV that had "I was a CSM in EvE" listed as an accomplishment.

Unless you're in one of the voting blocs that wields enough power to put a candidate in the Top 2, you no longer have any chance to choose who goes to Iceland, so that point is moot :v

True, but even the non summit members of the CSM will have greater influence with CCP then the average forum poster.

We are getting a POS update are we not?

Only because of a threadnought from a CSM member who had to defy the council's wishes and bring the issue directly to the massed playerbase on the forums. If Two Step would have left the issue with the CSM we'd have **** to show for it.

Allow me to reassure you that voting for me won't make any of those problems worse than they already are.

Now go participate. What are you so scared of?

**** you Malcanis

Eternum's View On CSM Voting (Time index 1:40)


"I on the other hand, who did not vote--whom in fact did not even leave the house on election day--am in no way responsible for what these people have done and I have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess that they created that you helped them make and that I had nothing to do with"

...and I am sure after the election is over EVE will improve immediately.






Signed, with all of my heart.
**** you Malcanis

Do away with the CSM, do EVE a favor.

Yes because EvE worked so well before the CSM came into existance.

And it do so well after...


It took a mass log off to get CCP to give us a sizable portion of what we have been asking for for years. Engine trails were suddenly "feasible" again, along with a whole host of other additions... no CSM required.

I have no problem with the CSM, but i am wondering when this period pre CSM was, as I have the minutes (or chat logs, whatever you prefer) from the Council meetings in 2003 and 2004

The Bad Old Days
The CSM as it currently stands is not the CSM that was originally pitched by CCP, wounded in the media by the T20/Band of Brothers cheating and corruption scandals. The original CSM was mooted as a body similar to todayGÇÖs Internal Affairs department, a group of elected player-auditors who would ensure that Sabre BPOs were no longer being handed out gratis. After a lot of high-profile press, the GÇÿwatchdog CSMGÇÖ was quietly abandoned after the T20 crisis died down and vanished for almost a year.

When it returned and was actually implemented in 2008, the CSM had transformed into what amounted to a focus group with six month terms. Another trumpet blast of loud, high profile media coverage resulted, which nicely covered over the fact that the first CSM was riven with infighting sparked by its controversial and ineffective chairman, Jade Constantine, and the ensuing campaign to oust him from office. The dev blog which wrapped up the CSM1 experience was an exercise tiptoeing around the fact that absolutely nothing of note had been accomplished. The CCP rep assigned to the CSM was reduced to saying that GÇ£We decided against enumerating the CSM's accomplishments - this is not a pissing contest. We know they made a difference and we are confident that the council will continue to make a difference.GÇ¥ Yet in every CSM since the first, CCP has worked hard to enumerate the accomplishments and relevance of the council.

The CSM as it currently stands is not the CSM that was originally pitched by CCP, wounded in the media by the T20/Band of Brothers cheating and corruption scandals

The CSM suffered another crippling blow in the eyes of the players after the Mitanni scandal and the CSM's failure to prevent one of the worst and most costly expansions in CCP history. Many players citing CSM rude behavior towards customers and bias towards certain forms of game play, while disregarding all others, as a major grievance towards the aging game EVE Online

The BPOs postdate the CSM by quite a while..

THIS is the CSM I was referring to:

CSM2004

Or to go even older:

CSM2003

Same name but effectively a different thing.

Where as some of us say same **** different day.

So because something had the same name 10 years ago you feel that is justification for sticking the knife into the backs of every EvE player.

Look at it this way if you feel the need to complain about eve in the next 12 months STFU.

I think we have already established that since I stay home on election-day I get to complain as loudly and as often as I want about the mess that you and the people that you voted for make


Also, get less angry and spend more time concocting more valid/logical counter arguments. You will find your time on the eve forums more enriching.

And I quote:

Finally, someone else sees it.

CSM is a layer of government that doesn't actually do things to improve the game (well, that's not their intention for having some game power, it's to game the system for their advantage or pet ideas. CCP allows it because they keep the players deluded in any sense of real power). It keeps the game status quo and stagnate.

Essentially this is what SOE once had with their booster club, which in turn got scuttled due to the same game interference CCP did with helping BoB and more (the whole Aeralik scandal was a mess or messes). It's designed as a way to hype/promote a game according to how CCP wants it, with an illusion of some control (as those who run are control freaks and have egos to match...just look at the arrogance of some of the current CSMs running for examples).

So seen it before, and in the end the same history is repeating itself, in yet another niche game.

Want to see real changes that matter. Practical changes that dovetail in improving the game for more actual new players...not more alts for vets (a stagnate community).

Why is the CSM a lobby group?

Because it is. The lipstick is a different color, but a pig is still a pig. Other games had/have the same booster club, and it turns out the same: Egos amok, status quo alive, game is stagnate, and overrun by bots (I quit WoW to get away from the bots in the BGs, LFR and even dungeons now, thinking no macros in EvE = no multibox software. Wrong! It's okay to have THOSE macros).

Look at the canvas. Look were this is all going. CCP profitting, yet the game is but alts and bots (how many actual new players play EvE each day? Not many, it's vets who keep adding more accounts). And players seem oblivious to it all, as they're seeing their tiny corner of the painting and careless of the overall picture...and how ugly it is.

I GOT MINE!!!

As a dumb "whale".

If you want the same o' same o' bot filled and alt filled games, keep voting. Tail chasing is fun, huh?

You don't like something so you do nothing about it and just complain.

That's the script you go by and probably even believe.

I vote with my wallet. That's the real powerbroker. As even CCP can't deny the power of greenbacks.

Blizzard was arrogant too. They dreamed up a new TBC remake in Cata. Got carried away and simply told players to "L2P". After that one blog post, 300,000 players unsubscribed (almost like next day even, the drop was that dramatic). In the end, they lost 1.7mil subscriptions, cut over 600 employees, the most in their history. They changed quickly, and the rhetoric of Cata being the best thing since slice bread, turned into the worst expansion in WoW's history.

Money talks. Bullshit walks.

So you have no attachment to the game

I'm a multigamer, Frying. I play many games. Have many accounts. My accounts in EvE show it's paid for this month. Hmmmm...how do you be unsubscribed like that, again? Hmmm, my main WoW account shows it's paid until May, too.

You like to believe EvE is a special snowflake among all gaming, so unique it's above all the other muck games can produce?

It isn't.

It's a game with the same players even (who do play other games too) and they play for their reasons and interests.

Some may find interest in CSM elections. Some won't. But if you're so deluded to think because what you think isn't done the way you like it, they're "unloyal" and what not?

Sit down and recheck that ego.

Hint: MMOs share the same player pool. Many play more than 1 MMO. The trick is getting them to play your MMO and keep playing it.

As for Blizzard: let's put it this way, they saw the abyss, and pulled back.

No game is an island. No game is immuned to the pocketbook. Even Goliath can fall, quick.

Would you care to show me another games who's subscriptions have only ever risen(excluding incarna) or a game that has dropped the percentage of subscriptions this did in Incarna and bounced back so well?

By opening more alt accounts, you mean?

(Psst...devs are going to shut down this thread for an overabundance of whole post quoting, like the last thread).

Considering the average forum poster has zero influence, that's not saying very much.



Only because of a threadnought from a CSM member who had to defy the council's wishes and bring the issue directly to the massed playerbase on the forums. If Two Step would have left the issue with the CSM we'd have **** to show for it.

yay, we get a bandaid fix that will put a fundamental POS rework off the table for at least the next 2 years.

great work CSM, thank you so very much!!!

No the game grew and is the only game that has consistently grown excluding the Incarna mess.

So pointless statements don't change that fact.

If you don't like the current CSM situation, step up to the plate and change it.

No the game grew and is the only game that has consistently grown excluding the Incarna mess.

So pointless statements don't change that fact.

If you don't like the current CSM situation, step up to the plate and change it.

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

yay, we get a bandaid fix that will put a fundamental POS rework off the table for at least the next 2 years.

great work CSM, thank you so very much!!!

When the alternative was "no bandaid fix and no fundamental POS rework on the table for at least the next 2 years", yes, we should thank Two Step (specifically him, not the CSM) for that. He shamed them into doing something when they were clearly quite content to do nothing.

Through the maze, precisely
Through the myriad of schemes
With your gaze, entice me
Like an animal, not a mineral

And we won the war, lost the battle
Lost the war, won the battle
Won the war, lost the battle
Lost the war...

All for the love of the humdrum and humble
Color for the colorblind
All for the love of the humdrum and humble
Rubbishing the Philistines
All for the love of the humdrum and humble

~ Tears For Fears "Humdrum and Humble"

It was supposed to be a communications interface between players and CCP.

Instead we got politics, GO VOTE NAO!, muh rights to whine, propaganda, power blocks, drama and egomania. Disgusting.

in that case you have pretty much 0 right to complain about anything for the next 12 months, or however long the csm is.

The CSM is supposed to be a feedback aggregator to make communication between CCP and the players more efficient. To go through popular ideas and evaluate them with a diverse collection of backgrounds, compile them into a easy format and present them to CCP, who then can more effectively evaluate what to add to the to-do lists and at what priority. Same with feedback to CCP's blogs and proposed changes.

It was supposed to be a communications interface between players and CCP.

Instead we got politics, GO VOTE NAO!, muh rights to whine, propaganda, power blocks, drama and egomania. Disgusting.

This is how I feel about it. Communications interface. The forums, and other mediums, are full of ideas, complaints, silliness, uninformed bitching, informed bitching, ponies, trolls, and randomness. The CSM sift through this crap, take the ideas and complaints that have merit, compile them into a format that's easily understood and informative, show it to the players for feedback, then hand their work over to CCP. That's it.

All this.. silliness that we have instead is a damn shame.

By opening more alt accounts, you mean?

(Psst...devs are going to shut down this thread for an overabundance of whole post quoting, like the last thread).

I am doing what I can to state my beliefs, and stand behind them.

All the growth was new accounts!

(I have shown as much evidence for this as you assertion that it was all alts)

Admirable. Why don't you pay people the minimal respect of assuming that the're doing the same, instead of assuming that everything that anyone else does is in bad faith?

I don't care if God handed it to you personally, let's see the public record of it.

Otherwise it's he said she said story.

Now, do you have an investors report? Otherwise there's no evidence of what you said even existed.



Respect is earned, it isn't given.

You're not entitled to respect unless you earn it. Pure and simple.

Now you understand REAL politics and life.

I don't care if God handed it to you personally, let's see the public record of it.

Otherwise it's he said she said story.

Now, do you have an investors report? Otherwise there's no evidence of what you said even existed.



Respect is earned, it isn't given.

You're not entitled to respect unless you earn it. Pure and simple.

Now you understand REAL politics and life.

By opening more alt accounts, you mean?

You have no evidence to show that, either way. But it's irrelevant to the point and his point still stands. Account numbers are at an all time high.

Not only are account numbers at an all time high, but concurrent users is also at (Or at least very close) to one as well.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

You have no evidence to show that, either way. But it's irrelevant to the point and his point still stands. Account numbers are at an all time high.

Power of two promotions have been around for years. And multi-accounting certainly wasn't new or unusual when I started playing in 2006.

And the CSM candidate seems to know nothing about the steadily growing trend of alt accounts throughout New Eden.




Run to that vote booth people. We have a winner. Maybe next you can tell us how there are nothing but bots in empire, and in nullsec there are next to none? (Get's Popcorn.)

No Votes Nerf Boats... so vote in the CSM elections

Here are two little pro-tips for you Mr doom. 1. don't presume that these forums are an accurate representation of people in game. Most people who play can't stand this cesspool of a forum, and don't even bother reading it. Secondly, do not base your theory on "how few alt accounts" their are in eve, based primarily on a forum populated in large part by alt posting characters.


There you go, two pro tips for free. No need to thank me.

And the CSM candidate seems to know nothing about the steadily growing trend of alt accounts throughout New Eden.




Run to that vote booth people. We have a winner. Maybe next you can tell us how there are nothing but bots in empire, and in nullsec there are next to none? (Get's Popcorn.)

because fixed bloc voting doesn't interest me perhaps?

i think i can choose the winners right now.. same sh*t different year.

The only reason that the blocs get the majority of seats, is that they have the majority of votes.

If more people voted their influence would be lessened.

Please link your source so that I can educate myself

You dont get it do you? Most of the people are in those large alliances vote and their alts also. Do you not know that most of eve is nullsec vet alliance members and their multiple alts? Doesnt really leave many 'others' to vote.
Also the only people really interested in stroking their egos rather than actually doing good for the game are those nullsec vet players.

I am very aware these forums are not representative of EvE as a whole.

This is what happens when a CSM of the people really goes out there and has meaningful conversations with the average, run of the mill everyday player in new eden. With his pulse on the heartbeat of eve, this man could not possibly do anything less then give CCP the rich and informed feedback they need to take this game into the next decade and beyond.

Then don't site it as a source M`kay? It makes you look stupid. K, thx. Kisses.

Then don't site it as a source M`kay? It makes you look stupid. K, thx. Kisses.

And what is wrong with the people contributing the most, cash-wise, to the game getting a say in the process proportional to the income they generate, eh?

Don't like it? Get Hi-Sec to vote. Hi-Sec won't vote? Deal with it. Or join the WH- or Nul-Blocs.

Stop fighting else I'll have to brings you twos togets... now kiss & make up

lmao. Isnt that why i said i didnt vote... duh... sorry about you...

Easy question, If most of EvE is Null sec and their votes, then why did they get so few votes last year compared to the over 400,000 subscriptions?

Or are you now saying that 90% of Null sec did not vote?

Hmmm now that is an interesting point... I wonder what % of NULL residents don't vote

The realistic facts are that only about 20% of EvE is in Null sece.

But for things that suck the most.

I think that category is filled by the fact that so far this year more is being done by players to get people to vote than CCP is doing.

So far their promise to promote the CSM has run face first into a concrete wall.

You have no evidence to show that, either way. But it's irrelevant to the point and his point still stands. Account numbers are at an all time high.

Welcome to no-one respecting you then.

I think you're speaking in bad faith.

The industrialist who industrial platform is even lower than the WH candidates spoke.

No abstain option... how interesting...

Depends what you are looking for from an industrialist.

You're really upset that he asked you to cite a claim you specifically made.

In case the point still flew miles over your head (a point fiying miles over the head of a thick as pig **** SMA shirtlord? NEVER), there's a big difference between "there's more alt accounts now than there was years ago" and "there's a steadily growing trend of alt accounts". If you still don't get it, maybe someone can draw it in crayon for you.

At this point, your'e really going to want to cite anything that starts with "The realistic facts".

I seem to have made you angry. I am pleased. And here is me drawing it in crayon for you, "there are more alt accounts now then there was years ago" and "it is do to a steadily growing trend". Guess what, these two ideas fit together quit nicely.


* Eternum wipes the drool off of snow axe's mouth and gives him a comforting kiss on the forehead. It's ok honey, no one noticed your stupid.

It's filling all the issues an industrialist would be concerned about in the questionaire (e.g., more ME/PE slots for one), and seeing your platform near the end of the list.

I mean even Greene Lee who isn't running on any industry platform came in higher than you. One WH candidate got 71%.

If you really were about industrial concerns a WH candidate shouldn't beat you on your own platform.

Actually I will, as I said the forums are mostly hardcore players and a percentage of these have only 1 account.

Maybe you could site any facts at all rather than just making things up.

Please, define this "hardcore" player that you speak of. After you explain what hardcore players are, I would like to see some literature clearly defining how they only have one account, and some statistics as to whether or not having one players a role in said "hardcoreness".