...What I'm saying is exactly that: you don't have to wait until you're in a 4bn pirate battleship with all-V skills before you dive into incursions GÇö if you really want to, you can probably do it in about a month (I would probably advice against it, though, since there are so much else to try in the beginning, and it is kind of a specialist field to get into so early)...

...The advice is still the same: don't wait until you have [whatever] before trying. Try today, and if it works, great! If it doesn't, figure out why and fix it.GǪ

[quote=Zak Breen]
It's not you mining or running missions that this is about, it's you telling newbies that they can't do anything except mine or run missions and choking their ability to have a good time in this video game that this thread is about.

which temporary setback at the hands of an alliance we then crushed

In February 2009, the Band of Brothers alliance was administratively disbanded. Goonswarm claim to have engineered this, stating that the action was taken by a disgruntled lead director as a 'rite of passage' to join Goonswarm. In addition, Goonswarm claim to have stolen a large amount of BoB assets. While one BoB source has denied this claim, another stated that an investigation was underway with regard to a possible infiltration of the alliance.

I did an Incursion at two months in a Drake... they let me in out of charity. It was fun, but I was not effective.

Soloing in lowsec for a two week old is death.

Notice training isn't an issue, unless they want to brag about it to show THEY have the skills (like the thread earlier claiming all shuttles can zip through without getting hit, then claiming needing Evasive Manuevuering IV, when confronted).

It's not you mining or running missions that this is about, it's you telling newbies that they can't do anything except mine or run missions and choking their ability to have a good time in this video game that this thread is about.

.. new players don't know what htey wantGǪ

How did you crush BoB again? I'll even use a source you guys would think is more "fair" (calling yourselves "noble"?) ...

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Band_of_Brothers



So much for a crushing defeat by n00bies via PvPing. Just enter the back door and pull a plug.

So what? You were doing it, and you had fun. Everything else is just silly GÇ£must have VGÇ¥ elitist nonsense.
Also, why did you let anyone else dictate your gameplay?

Soloing in lowsec for a two-year old is just as much death. The difference is that the two-week old has no bad habit he has to unlearn; no expensive ships to replace; and he'll have an abundance of source material to learn from.

In other words, and once again: age is not a factor in survival. If anything, he'll survive far better far sooner than the two-year old (and most likely pick up a few contacts that he can build a career with, which is much less likely for the older character). Either way, waiting until GÇ£you're readyGÇ¥ just means you will never be ready. Try today.

Knock, knock...no one is.

It's a tradition in gaming to let gamers play as they want. It's a very Libertarian concept so cherished.

If they want to play PvE, their choice. If they want to PvP, their choice.

It isn't for YOU to decide.

...And look, another CSM candidate...

It's a tradition in gaming to let gamers play as they want. It's a very Libertarian concept so cherished.

If they want to play PvE, their choice. If they want to PvP, their choice.

It isn't for YOU to decide.

What makes you think you know what 1000's of different individuals want?

Are you going to honestly argue that between a two year old and a two week old... the two week old has the advantage?

Good thing I never claimed anything of the kind, then..

some morons don't train a x2 core skill to level three/four early on because highsec bads/npc corp chat tells them ~perfect yield/refine~ is a thing that somehow matters and they lack the critical thinking abilities to examine what they'll actually need to succeed in this game

see op for more information on this topical issue

You have done it consistently through this threat. Saying new players don't know what they want.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

You have done it consistently through this threat. Saying new players don't know what they want.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

by definition new players do not know what they want because in eve online, a fiendishly complex game, they do not know enough to make an informed choice

perhaps you should think a little harder next time

So you know what all of the new players want.

GǪand if you had actually read the post you were responding to, you would have noticed that none of what you said was relevant

So you know what all of the new players want.

What is it?

Is this by your definition?

Did I mention anything about what new players will be doing?

by definition new players do not know what they want because in eve online, a fiendishly complex game, they do not know enough to make an informed choice

perhaps you should think a little harder next time

...new players don't know what htey want...

you've been having a lot of trouble with the concepts here so we're going to walk before we run

you understand now that a new player will, by definition (they are new) lack the knowledge to make informed choices about what they want to do in eve, correct

or do you choose to assert they actually know how everything works and can make an informed choice themselves

Specifically, you said GÇ£It's a tradition in gaming to let gamers play as they want.

And if you're into babying players to do this or that now...who is the carebear now?

They will make mistakes. But to learn you have too make mistakes.

Learning 101.

Did you write this?

And that's not telling to be ABC

you've been having a lot of trouble with the concepts here so we're going to walk before we run

you understand now that a new player will, by definition (they are new) lack the knowledge to make informed choices about what they want to do in eve, correct

or do you choose to assert they actually know how everything works and can make an informed choice themselves

If they're going to be a miner, and want to succeed at it, you bet they'll be getting those skills up.

And you aren't helping them by holding their hand, wiping their rear, and telling them what's a "good boy" is in EvE...by dictating your idea of what is proper to YOU.