Have you ever seen an eagle?

Have you ever seen an eagle?

Ishtar could even stand a little cpu buff when the balance hammer falls.

navy vexor would still be better in almost every way

Have you ever seen an eagle?

I have sick range on my Cerb heavies... don't you DARE say anything that'll get that nerfed again!!

That was never the issue with the Cerberus - the tank is. Even you have to admit that as soon as someone sneezes at a Cerberus it goes boom.

Honest question here, I am just very slowly returning and getting my feet wet, and the more I think about it when I left, at least for minmatar ships, HAC's were seldom used. Lots of fleet stabbers out, no vagabonds, and munin (sp?), I can't remember the last time I have seen one of those. As for other ships, unfortunately my views are lopsided as currently I really only fly minmatar.

Is my viewpoint and experience too limited, or do some of the T2 ships out there need some loving as well?

Cerberus isn't fast enough to kite.

Eagle with rails doesn't do squat for damage.

Caldari HAC's are not good. Outstripped by faction and other races HAC's in almost all departments.

The Zealot is really good though.

Yep, tech2 ships definitely are on our to-do list. While Command Ships, Black Ops and Heavy Assault Cruisers are quite in dire need of attention, we'll most likely go over them all one class at a time to make sure they fit with what we've done so far with the tiericide.

Yeah, please fix the caldari hacs - they are so bad atm.
All other hacs do not need any urgent changes - they are ok.

Yep, tech2 ships definitely are on our to-do list. While Command Ships, Black Ops and Heavy Assault Cruisers are quite in dire need of attention, we'll most likely go over them all one class at a time to make sure they fit with what we've done so far with the tiericide.

Erm... not really. The Caldari ones have just been the worst for longest.

The advantages HACs have over their competitors are T2 resists (compared to faction cruisers) and small sig (compared to BCs). I would expect the HAC rework to be focused around emphasising these stats.

Erm... not really. The Caldari ones have just been the worst for longest.

The advantages HACs have over their competitors are T2 resists.

Zealot is still really good.

Have you ever seen an eagle?

how to fix the eagle.

step one. boost medium rails damage by 5%

step two. increase base pg of the eagle

step three: add a mid slot

step 4: replace the second optimal range bonus for a rate of fire bonus.

Erm... not really. The Caldari ones have just been the worst for longest.

The advantages HACs have over their competitors are T2 resists (compared to faction cruisers) and small sig (compared to BCs). I would expect the HAC rework to be focused around emphasising these stats.

If they follow assault frigs, then tankier + more dps, but a bit slower than their T1 counterparts.

That was never the issue with the Cerberus - the tank is. Even you have to admit that as soon as someone sneezes at a Cerberus it goes boom.

Perhaps it predates me, but why do the resists have no consistency. For example the massive EM resist on minnie shields.

Seems bizarre.

T2 resists are derived from lore, Minmatar get EM to combat Amarr lasers, Caldari get Thermal to combat Gallente Blasters, Amarr get explosive to combat Minmatar projectile ammo, and so on.

Perhaps it predates me, but why do the resists have no consistency. For example the massive EM resist on minnie shields.

Seems bizarre.

Perhaps it predates me, but why do the resists have no consistency. For example the massive EM resist on minnie shields.

Seems bizarre.

and vaga too of course, although the cynabal really steps on the vagas toes

Honest question here, I am just very slowly returning and getting my feet wet, and the more I think about it when I left, at least for minmatar ships, HAC's were seldom used. Lots of fleet stabbers out, no vagabonds, and munin (sp?), I can't remember the last time I have seen one of those. As for other ships, unfortunately my views are lopsided as currently I really only fly minmatar.

Is my viewpoint and experience too limited, or do some of the T2 ships out there need some loving as well?

Please Please don't touch my Redeemer its fine the way it is.

Edit: If you put laucnher hard points on it like its t1 counter part...so help me :P

The BC3 was an attempt at reviving the Mobile sniping strategy (sadly, with opposite effects, if you ask me).

Ishtar could even stand a little cpu buff when the balance hammer falls.

Cerberus isn't fast enough to kite.

how to fix the eagle.

step one. boost medium rails damage by 5%

step two. increase base pg of the eagle

step three: add a mid slot

step 4: replace the second optimal range bonus for a rate of fire bonus.

T2 resists are derived from lore, Minmatar get EM to combat Amarr lasers, Caldari get Thermal to combat Gallente Blasters, Amarr get explosive to combat Minmatar projectile ammo, and so on.

OTher much more flavoful change. Increase max lock range in eve to 300 km. Done.. eagles can now engage outside the range of any non caldari ships.

It's description has always given me the impression that it was meant to sit at range and snipe.

I think that the deimos could really use some more pwg and maybe an extra midslot for a dual prop fit that would tear BS's apart as that is what AHACs are best at

Not sure what you're saying here - the tier 3 BCs have revitalised the mobile sniper meta. They're basically almost everything I used to love about sniper HACs, but with good alpha and T1 insurance.

I hear a lot of complaints about the tier 3s, but they're exactly what we need more of: ships that are fun to fly, accessible*, affordable without being trivially cheap, great at blowing things up and very prone to blowing up themselves.

*OK T2 large guns are an arse to skill, but you can use meta arty with the nado just fine.

Tech 2 resists are based on lore.
Minmatar : EM primary, Thermal secondary. Counters the Matari enemies, the Amarr
Amarr : Explosive primary, Kinetic secondary. Counters the damage of the Glorious republic.
Caldari : Thermal Primary, Kinetic Secondary. Counters the heavy damage of both blasters, as well as Gallente drones.
Gallente : Kinetic Primary, Thermal Secondary. Counters the primarily Kinetic damage of the State, as well as hybrid damage.

Still, to push the same dps you can do with a Thorax you'll be doing far more sacrifices than with T1 hull.

Of course T2 resistances are a + but until this class gets fully revamp you have no real reason to undock with a Deimos over a Thorax.

For simple comparison if you try to make a lol suicide run ship and shield fit both, Thorax can still push by far much more dps and almost double top speed of Deimos.

The devil is in the details...

The things you are listing are excatly why I dislike the ships. I don't dislike that there are cool ships that are fun to fly, but i do (and quite strongly) dislike the result of their features or design ideal.

You used to love them: You assume HAC's had a problem beside risk-reward appeal...

Yep, tech2 ships definitely are on our to-do list. While Command Ships, Black Ops and Heavy Assault Cruisers are quite in dire need of attention, we'll most likely go over them all one class at a time to make sure they fit with what we've done so far with the tiericide.

I'm afraid you have drawn the wrong inference. That's not why snipe HACs disappeared, and it's not why they won't be coming back. Look, INIT's current fleet doctrine is based on Faction BS hulls, ffs. The cost of a HAC isn't what stops us using them for snipers. The reason we use Nagas is that large weapons are intrinsically superior for shooting things that are a long way away.

Snipe HACs went away when the meta switched to widespread use of Logistics. A beam Zealot had around a 2k alpha. A rail Naga has closer to 4k. An arty nado has 8k+. And both the tier 3s do a lot more DPS (~650 vs ~450) as well, and can be switched out to operate at much greater ranges (We're loading Antimatter L and Plutonium L to engage at ranges that would have necessitated Aurora M in the Zealots).

Lokis are significantly different from HACs. Making a ship with Tech 3 EHP and a resist subsystem (not to mention a web range bonus subsystem) work is a very, very long way from making a Muninn work. Let alone an Eagle...

I'll break it down for you: as long as the "tier 3" BCs can use large rails/beams/arty, snipe HACs aren't coming back. Simple as that.

I think HACs have a viable role, but sniping aint it. Kiting? Yes, sure. Attack ships? Umm hmmm maybe, but possible. Sniping? Get out of town.

Lokis are significantly different from HACs. Making a ship with Tech 3 EHP and a resist subsystem (not to mention a web range bonus subsystem) work is a very, very long way from making a Muninn work. Let alone an Eagle...

I'll break it down for you: as long as the "tier 3" BCs can use large rails/beams/arty, snipe HACs aren't coming back. Simple as that.

I think HACs have a viable role, but sniping aint it. Kiting? Yes, sure. Attack ships? Umm hmmm maybe, but possible. Sniping? Get out of town.

I always thought it was this:
Minmatar - Properly boost shield tanks which they love to use.
Amarr - Properly boost armor tanks which they love to use.
Caldari, Gallente - Leave the biggest holes in their tanks (EM for Caldari, Explosive for Gallente) alone so that nobody in their right mind would bother flying them.

Yep, tech2 ships definitely are on our to-do list. While Command Ships, Black Ops and Heavy Assault Cruisers are quite in dire need of attention, we'll most likely go over them all one class at a time to make sure they fit with what we've done so far with the tiericide.

Where's the love for the Ishtar? It gets 100 pg less than a Vexor! what's up with that/?! I skilled into an Ishtar for a lack of ....everything? lol.

Have you ever seen an eagle?

I for one welcome our slowcat and suicide-dread overlords.

Why HAC when you can use a tengu loki legion proteus?

Yes, the ship balancing team have already confirmed that the project will continue through the T2 ship range. They're just doing the T1 ships first.

HACs are probably the most urgent case.

Vagabond needs a buff. This used to be the king of kiting nano boats, but now there is no real reason to fly one over a Cynabal or Stabber Fleet Issue

Yep, tech2 ships definitely are on our to-do list. While Command Ships, Black Ops and Heavy Assault Cruisers are quite in dire need of attention, we'll most likely go over them all one class at a time to make sure they fit with what we've done so far with the tiericide.

Besides the terribad Caldari HACs (I'm primarily Caldari specced and even I won't fly them) a large part of why HACs are now on the decline is because of tech 3s. They outperform HACs in every catagory and have more versatility. Psychotic tanks, very small sigrad, and better boosters than command ships.

NERF NERF NERF.

I sincerely hope that when you "re-balance" the heavy assault ships you don't remove the deimos' MWD capacitor penalty bonus.

Many people rage at HACs adn T3's without even thinking about a simple fact: you DON'T start balance with higher tiers but the other way around so yes, for the moment T1 counterparts do the same for a fraction of cost.

We're at the point past battleship rebalance which means they should start attacking T2 hulls rebalance pretty soon but make no mistake and should not CCP do it as well.

It will take some time, doesn't really matter, Eve is a game played on the long term, I care less about having hacs op next week to get them nerf 6 months latter, I rather wait a couple months...