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Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.04.14 07:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I get that no where in EVE is it truely safe and all that crap bla bla bla
but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec? I mean how is ok for someone to fly a ship worth a total of maybe 8-10 million take out somoene flying a ship worth 50m? I have read posts about people losing their orcas to ganks in high sec by several people all combined maybe flying ships that total 80-100 million (8-10 ships) or even less taking out a ship worth well over 1 bill full fitted? WTF?!?!
So i mean what defense is there? when orcas are dropped by a few well organized pilots flying cheap ships? I guess you could tank up your mackinaw but it only means what.... the ganker gets 2 of his friends to take out your 200mil ship by risking 10 mill a pilot?
I am all for ganks in high sec but the the cost to gank somoene is pennies on the dollar compared to what the ganked loses its just not fair at all.
This game just seems to be going down the toilet rapidly in the latest years. New players dont stand a chance agianst the EVE lifers that run multiple accounts and throw 10's of millions away on catalyst losses just to destroy people.
Let me say agian im not trying to complain about getting ganked rather i guess im complaining at the huge unfair cost diff of ships.
Why does CCP seem to have buffed destroyers creating a situation that favors the ganker and leaves the ganked almost completely defensless?
Even aligning to gate, mining in .7 and above, being at the computer, D-scanning constantly you still run a better chance of dieing than not if you find your self chosen by a ganker.
I know many trolls are gunna just tear this post a new one with the "eve isnt supposed be safe crap" but the fact that people create accounts just to gank ships with tech I ships that cost 5-10 times less then what it costs the person getting ganked. doesnt seem fair to me at all. and I feel it has caused many players to leave and will continue to do so. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5944
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
A vast amount of miners fit no tank at all and make themselves profitable to gank. Chances are this ganker didn't bother to scan you and got lucky with the kill. Now you did fit a tank, however you made a mistake and left a big kinetic hole which is what allowed that destroyer (the most popular gankboat) to get through.
In short you got unlucky. |
Prince Kobol
692
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:I get that no where in EVE is it truely safe and all that crap bla bla bla
but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec? I mean how is ok for someone to fly a ship worth a total of maybe 8-10 million take out somoene flying a ship worth 50m? I have read posts about people losing their orcas to ganks in high sec by several people all combined maybe flying ships that total 80-100 million (8-10 ships) or even less taking out a ship worth well over 1 bill full fitted? WTF?!?!
So i mean what defense is there? when orcas are dropped by a few well organized pilots flying cheap ships? I guess you could tank up your mackinaw but it only means what.... the ganker gets 2 of his friends to take out your 200mil ship by risking 10 mill a pilot?
I am all for ganks in high sec but the the cost to gank somoene is pennies on the dollar compared to what the ganked loses its just not fair at all.
This game just seems to be going down the toilet rapidly in the latest years. New players dont stand a chance agianst the EVE lifers that run multiple accounts and throw 10's of millions away on catalyst losses just to destroy people.
Let me say agian im not trying to complain about getting ganked rather i guess im complaining at the huge unfair cost diff of ships.
Why does CCP seem to have buffed destroyers creating a situation that favors the ganker and leaves the ganked almost completely defensless?
Even aligning to gate, mining in .7 and above, being at the computer, D-scanning constantly you still run a better chance of dieing than not if you find your self chosen by a ganker.
I know many trolls are gunna just tear this post a new one with the "eve isnt supposed be safe crap" but the fact that people create accounts just to gank ships with tech I ships that cost 5-10 times less then what it costs the person getting ganked. doesnt seem fair to me at all. and I feel it has caused many players to leave and will continue to do so.
So your argument is that you shouldn't be able to kill a ship if it costs more then yours?
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1276
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
There will come the day when miners realize that having a logistic ship in their mining fleet actually adds to the profits. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Cartoondog
Randy Lobsters In Space
1
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
You can still be ganked, but it's as hard/harder than it's ever been.
To kill an Orca that has some kind of tank (I mean noone would fly one without at least a damage control on it, right?) with ganky Catalysts, you're looking at around 15 of the little buggers. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5944
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:There will come the day when miners realize that having a logistic ship in their mining fleet actually adds to the profits.
I doubt it |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7439
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
eve isn't fair, deal with it mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
200
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:There will come the day when miners realize that having a logistic ship in their mining fleet actually adds to the profits.
This. This a million times this.
Look at a mining company today. Does the staff consist entirely of miners? No there's on site security, or a medic. It's not rocket science people. http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Akinesis
CRIMSON ASSAULT Brotherhood of the Kebab
21
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Mining Barges and Exhumers just got a massive overhaul!!! Fly a Skiff and tank that bad-boy up (it can have a tank compare able to a battleship!). Even the Mack can have a decent tank if fitted right. |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front New Creation Collective
272
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote: but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec?
Yo must be new here. Highsec started out as a ganker's paradise way back in the day. Today, nerf after nerf has made it more and more difficult to gank successfully. You have to be pretty well organized to pull off really high value ganks.
How do you protect yourself against ganks? Everybody else will tell you how. I'm not going to. Basically you have to be as well organized and aware as the gankers. That means not being AFK, of course. Join the Revolutionary Front and liberate New Eden from it's stuff.
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
449
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why are you whining about a ganking paradise? Now when we do something bad, EVERYBODY can attack us as we become suspect, that INCLUDES being podded and losing a clone and implants.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7439
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Why are you whining about a ganking paradise? Now when we do something bad, EVERYBODY can attack us as we become suspect, that INCLUDES being podded and losing a clone and implants.
Ganking is anything but a pradise in Empire, infact it is even more riskier and higher penalty now in Retribution, in fact some would say it went too far on making Empire TOO SAFE.
Don't worry they'll nerf it more because the problem for the worthless bears isn't that ganking is too easy, it's that ganking is possible mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
449
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Andski wrote:Miilla wrote:Why are you whining about a ganking paradise? Now when we do something bad, EVERYBODY can attack us as we become suspect, that INCLUDES being podded and losing a clone and implants.
Ganking is anything but a pradise in Empire, infact it is even more riskier and higher penalty now in Retribution, in fact some would say it went too far on making Empire TOO SAFE. Don't worry they'll nerf it more because the problem for the worthless bears isn't that ganking is too easy, it's that ganking is possible
I know, and CCP's business plan seems to be based on a Whine-O-Meter, because they need money, badly.
I am ok with 1.0 designated new rookie spawn systems being 100% safe, anything system lower, NOPE. Never. |
Dave Stark
2560
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:There will come the day when miners realize that having a logistic ship in their mining fleet actually adds to the profits.
so wrong it's painful. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1713
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 09:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
For those that don't follow the news, Exhumers are getting an EHP nerf. Sort of the exact opposite reason for them existing. |
Dave Stark
2560
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 09:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
hear that thud?
it was the last nail finding it's way to the hulk's coffin.
all hail, king retriever! |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
441
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 09:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't see how you even manage to get ganked. If a cheap warship enters the belt and begins closing the distance to you then you could just warp to that safe you were aligned to. As you where paying attention while mining and not alt tabbed on the forums when it happened. We miss you Saede. |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
35
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
OP: Think of a mining barge or exhumer like you would think of a strip mining crystal: They provide you with isk but eventually are destroyed.
With luck and some sensible actions on your part such as choosing a ship and fit for durability rather than yield, sticking with platinum insured T1 ships to reduce isk losses, staying well clear of systems with ice belts because they draw bots and gankers and being ready to hit warp when a suspicious ship enters the belt you are mining you can make being ganked almost irrelevant because the isk you make between ganks easily covers any losses. Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
126
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:(a lot of stuff)
I have two equally viable pieces of advise for you. 1. a) Buy a procurer and tank it up b) mine to your hearts content c) profit
2. a)Buy a skiff and tank it up b) mine to your hearts content c) profit
As long as these two tools exist for miners they really have no room to complain. Unless you are particularly obnoxious gankers won't bother you. If you need some fits feel free to message me, but honestly they're not that hard to figure out.
Or continue mining in other barges and accept the higher risk of getting blown up.
/you can fit max yield in a skiff or procurer and still fit a sick tank //procurers are stupid cheap, can be fit with tech I mods and no rigs, and still have more EHP than any other ship except the skiff |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
322
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:I get that no where in EVE is it truely safe and all that crap bla bla bla
If you think this game is crap, then why are you playing it? Remove insurance. |
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Dave Stark
2560
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Gallamoth Sickle wrote:I get that no where in EVE is it truely safe and all that crap bla bla bla
If you think this game is crap, then why are you playing it?
he didn't say it was, at least not in that quote. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3196
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec?
Umm.... Beta?
When EVE was released, there was no CONCORD. Then there was Tankable CONCORD. Then Untankable CONCORD but Insurance payouts for gank ships remained. And now there's No insurance and the fastest responding, untankable, undelayable CONCORD EVE's ever seen.
If you're saying that these changes turned EVE into a ganker's paradise, maybe you want them rolled back?
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:Even aligning to gate, mining in .7 and above, being at the computer, D-scanning constantly you still run a better chance of dieing than not if you find your self chosen by a ganker.
Being aligned means that you will be in warp to the destination you were aligned to the server tick after you press the button. You don't have to be watching d-scan, just the overview to be safe because no matter what method, it takes longer than that to tackle or bump you. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
97
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Posted - 2013.04.14 10:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:I don't see how you even manage to get ganked. If a cheap warship enters the belt and begins closing the distance to you then you could just warp to that safe you were aligned to. As you where paying attention while mining and not alt tabbed on the forums when it happened.
This isn't what being aligned means, since you aren't travelling at warping speed and practically all of the align time in a barge or exhumer is in acceleration not turning. it won't help you.
On a general point, advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless. really if you're in a populous system you will need to fly something cheap like a retriever and play the odds or if you wish to fly something expensive then get the hell away from everyone. I mined for months in a yield maxed mackinaw by finding the least populated systems (usually without stations) with a decent refinery in range. one jump is quite bearable when you have a 35K ore bay. then just courier contract the ore to a hub for next to nothing. plus you get largely untouched belts this way.
this is working from the basic theory that the wolves stay close to the sheep and it's true. freelance space bum |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
441
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless.
Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp.
I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis.
They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant.
And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV. We miss you Saede. |
Dave Stark
2560
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless. Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp. I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis. They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant. And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.
fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster. |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
441
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless. Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp. I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis. They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant. And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV. fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster.
No but it lets you warp off before the gankers reach you as you had the sense to not sit on the warp in point.
We miss you Saede. |
Dave Stark
2561
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:No but it lets you warp off before the gankers reach you as you had the sense to not sit on the warp in point.
i feel we could go back and forth all day with you making terrible points and me pointing out how terrible they are, but i can't be bothered. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1713
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster. Fact: if you try to warp away when gankers land on grid, it is already too late [unless you insta-warp because you are aligned and webbed].
For reference, my Hulks take 17 seconds to warp without outside assistance / interference. |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
97
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Posted - 2013.04.14 10:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless. Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp. I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis. They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant. And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.
get a stop watch and try it out. align times are comparable with CONCORD response times in 0.5 space whatever way you're pointing, but you don't mine so you don't know that, as i said.
also the fact that I can AFK quite safely in high with my advice should tell you that your plucky, non perverted miners are either enjoying their roleplay or wasting their time. the risk/reward and logistics difficulties make it unworthwhile. freelance space bum |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
365
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Posted - 2013.04.14 10:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ganking is basicly EvE with Easy-mode on. Why actually go looking for actual PvP targets elsewhere in the game, when you've got yourself unlimited risk-free targets floating around highsec, that don't shoot back? Better still, most of their targets are unwilling and/or uninterested in PvP, and thus are completely unprepaired for sudden ganking. As long as these gankers make sure their target is worth more than the cost of the ships used, they win. Then again, some of them do it just for the hell of it, or to make their pathetic killboards increase.
Worst of all, they all rant their highsec-hating rhetoric to justify their position. They've already made lowsec into a wasteland, and taught new players and carebears alike that traveling there is a death-sentence, and so now they've moved to highsec. As far as their concerned, their gameplay is the only gameplay, and everyone should conform to their opinion.
Though i won't go as far as saying that ganking should be impossible in highsec, i definately think it should be made harder and/or less profitable. Cause lets face it, these L33T PvPers wouldn't know real PvP if it came up and smacked them in the face with a fish. And ultimately their selfish actions prevent players natural progression out of highsec to other areas Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
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