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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vaugue
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Posted - 2005.10.10 08:48:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Manny Tanato
The Caldari hate is going to stupifying levels.
There are lots of players who have many millions of skill points and able to fly many races ships. Well those guys can switch to some other race's ships quite easily and so side-step the difficulties that CCP is heaping on Caldari. But what about the medium-age players who started as Caldaris? 
The point is we shouldn't have to train another races ship just to remain competetive. Isn't that a sign of imbalance??? 
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My Space |
Manny Tanato
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Posted - 2005.10.10 09:26:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Pottsey
These are the bonus I got form the database.
Large Shield extender Mk1
powergrid usage
400 MW
CPU usage
100 tf
Shield HP bonus 1,500 HP
Large Shield extender Mk2
powergrid usage
200 MW
CPU usage
100 tf
Shield HP bonus 1,500 HP
signatureRadiusBonus 5900 % <---
Seems very unfair to me. Lowering the fitting will mean its easy to fit oversized extenders on in which case the sig increase will counter that. But what about people fitting the correct side extenders? Battleships with 3 or 4 extenders get no real befit but a massive disadvantage.
This is really going to hurt passive shield tankers.
Took this right off the thread you started in the Skills and Modules forum. 5900% will in the end become 60% no?
-=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=- |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.10 10:26:00 -
[153]
ôTook this right off the thread you started in the Skills and Modules forum. 5900% will in the end become 60% no?ö
The thing is the Xlarge stealth module turns into û160% sig which is impossible. So it has to be û160sig. That makes me believe or should that be hope 59000% really means +60 sig per module which is reasonable and much better then +60%.
Hopefully the test server is up this week or today with the new changeÆs. Then we can see how wrong or right I was.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:29:00 -
[154]
I have a feeling CCP will keep nerfing Caldari until it gets such a bad rep that new players will choose other races.
Talk about a less than optimal way for load balancing 
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:39:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2005 13:40:20
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
I have a feeling CCP will keep nerfing Caldari until it gets such a bad rep that new players will choose other races.
Talk about a less than optimal way for load balancing
Heh. I wish I could disagree about CCP nerfing Caldari. I'm not sure of their reasons, but I'd like to hear a dev response as to why Caldari seem to always get the shaft:
Yes, missiles were over-powered vs. frigs and cruisers prior to the Cold War patch, but now the fix has gone too far in the other direction.
Shield extenders are not as effective as armor plates, and are also ridiculously hard to fit.
Ballistic Control Units take more CPU their their turret-mod counterparts.
Tech II BCUs use more CPU than tech I BCU's. (Tech II turret mods use the same CPU and grid as tech I turret mods.)
Low missile DPS is supposed to be compensated by the ability to switch damage types; the kestrel, crow, caracal, and cerberus are straightjacketed into one damage type to actually receive their 25% damage bonus - other races' ships, with higher base DPS, also receive damage bonuses.
Caldari have the worst:
Mass,
Agility,
Lock time
of all four races.
So, how about it, devs? Are there plans in the works to address these issues? What is your vision of the Caldari and their role? Do you feel they are performing as intended?
Any info would be much appreciated.
-Wrayeth
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Manny Tanato
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Posted - 2005.10.10 15:28:00 -
[156]
Yes Pottsey, I do hope you're right on that. Hope it's +60 sig, not +60%. However, even +60 is far too much. A ferox has sig radius of 285. To add 60 point to sig radius is going to make it a 20% increase. That's just shy of painting oneself with a tech one target painter. That's still stupid.
This is especially so if you run combat missions, the Caldari usually face missile lobbing natural enemies. That 20% increase in sig is going to hurt so much.
I am extremely dissapointed with CCP, the way they are steering this game. What's with the Caldari hate? Why doesn't a dev comment?
-=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=- |
Sean Drake
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Posted - 2005.10.10 16:03:00 -
[157]
Yep as expected Caldari get shafted again imho I cannot see any reason to start as any race other than ammarr. And due to my paranoia have trained up all 4 races
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2005.10.10 17:26:00 -
[158]
Lol. So much whining from the Caldari section 
- First tempest got shafted with the artillery nerf.
- Then the rest of the gunships got shafted with the tracking/sig radius nerf
- Finally after half a year of superiority (everyone and their mums trained for caldari bs, since all other choices where crap) the raven got nerfed with the missile nerf.
I don't see why the caldari feel hated?
For the extender "nerf" I welcome that since we don't have a armor rep amplifier. And the skills affecting armor tanking has been absent until now.
Chepe Nolon
--
My notes about agent missions. |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.10 17:31:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2005 17:33:23
Originally by: Chepe Nolon
Lol. So much whining from the Caldari section
- First tempest got shafted with the artillery nerf.
- Then the rest of the gunships got shafted with the tracking/sig radius nerf
- Finally after half a year of superiority (everyone and their mums trained for caldari bs, since all other choices where crap) the raven got nerfed with the missile nerf.
I don't see why the caldari feel hated?
For the extender "nerf" I welcome that since we don't have a armor rep amplifier. And the skills affecting armor tanking has been absent until now.
First, minmatar got nerfed...and the devs had to fix them later because they went too far with the original nerf. It's happened again with Caldari - their ability vs. cruisers and frigs needed to be knocked down a step or five, but it was overdone. I just hope it doesn't take a year to fix it like it did with minmatar.
As for your comments on the extender nerf, you achieve the same effect by fitting a second armor rep. Because of the massive shield booster cap usage over time, a second shield booster on a shield-tanked ship would run the thing out of cap in no time (not to mention the lack of effective low slot cap recharge items that don't screw shield boosting - PDU is the only that can be used and it's weak). Hence, the boost amp.
EDIT: BTW, I get more sustain out of my tempest's dual-large armor rep tank than I do out of my raven's XL booster + boost amp tank. I'm guessing you haven't flown a full-on shield tank before?
-Wrayeth
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.10.10 18:35:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2005 17:26:01
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2005 13:40:20
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
I have a feeling CCP will keep nerfing Caldari until it gets such a bad rep that new players will choose other races.
Talk about a less than optimal way for load balancing
Heh. I wish I could disagree about CCP nerfing Caldari. I'm not sure of their reasons, but I'd like to hear a dev response as to why Caldari seem to always get the shaft:
Yes, missiles were over-powered vs. frigs and cruisers prior to the Cold War patch, but now the fix has gone too far in the other direction.
Shield extenders are not as effective as armor plates, and are also ridiculously hard to fit.
Ballistic Control Units take more CPU their their turret-mod counterparts.
Tech II BCUs use more CPU than tech I BCU's. (Tech II turret mods use the same CPU and grid as tech I turret mods.)
Low missile DPS is supposed to be compensated by the ability to switch damage types; however, the kestrel, crow, caracal, and cerberus are straightjacketed into one damage type to actually receive their 5%/level damage bonus, thus negating the effect of being able to switch damage types.
Compare this to another race's ship that has a higher DPS and ALSO receives a 5%/level damage bonus and you see where this is not balanced.
Caldari have the worst:
Mass,
Agility,
Lock time
of all four races.
So, how about it, devs? Are there plans in the works to address these issues? What is your vision of the Caldari and their role? Do you feel they are performing as intended?
Any info would be much appreciated.
Good points, but I seriously doubt any dev will answer.
It would be better if every race but amarr was removed. That way we would all praise CCP for every change they make.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.10 18:41:00 -
[161]
will the HP increase affect both NPCs and players?
will the shield extenders/plates have the 25% buff?
will they have a buff on top of this 25%?
what is happening to shield recharge?
will the recharge times be increased by 25% to keep the recharge/second the same?
--
This Zig. For great justice!
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2005.10.10 18:50:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2005 17:33:23
As for your comments on the extender nerf, you achieve the same effect by fitting a second armor rep. Because of the massive shield booster cap usage over time, a second shield booster on a shield-tanked ship would run the thing out of cap in no time (not to mention the lack of effective low slot cap recharge items that don't screw shield boosting - PDU is the only that can be used and it's weak). Hence, the boost amp.
EDIT: BTW, I get more sustain out of my tempest's dual-large armor rep tank than I do out of my raven's XL booster + boost amp tank. I'm guessing you haven't flown a full-on shield tank before?
I fly a raven, yes. But my skills for shield tanking sucks. So I'm not a good example of a shield tanker. Still the shield tanking ships is based upon weapons that don't require cap. One thing is tanking, another one is being a sitting duck. Using a dual large rep + either lasers on an apoc or blasters on a mega is hard on the cap. Plus the plate could also be a vital part, as the armor boost comes after the duration, not before.
Chepe Nolon
--
My notes about agent missions. |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.10 19:14:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Chepe Nolon
Using a dual large rep + either lasers on an apoc or blasters on a mega is hard on the cap. Plus the plate could also be a vital part, as the armor boost comes after the duration, not before.
Granted on the cap part, but that's why the apoc gets those cap bonuses. It's also why there are no lowslot modules that increase cap without a shield boost penalty aside from the PDU, which has a limited effect on cap regen compared to a cap power relay or cap recharger.
As for the plate being helpful because the boost comes after the armor rep duration, that's what shields are for. When you get low on shields that's when you pop on your armor rep.
-Wrayeth
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.10.11 00:15:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Chepe Nolon
Lol. So much whining from the Caldari section
- First tempest got shafted with the artillery nerf.
- Then the rest of the gunships got shafted with the tracking/sig radius nerf
- Finally after half a year of superiority (everyone and their mums trained for caldari bs, since all other choices where crap) the raven got nerfed with the missile nerf.
I don't see why the caldari feel hated?
For the extender "nerf" I welcome that since we don't have a armor rep amplifier. And the skills affecting armor tanking has been absent until now.
You also have access to modules we don't (effect all passives, also getting a boast this patch), not to mention your ress fittigs are so much less than ours.
Yes missiles need a tone down but it went to far, target painters are better for guns, a frig pilot only needs not to turn on a MWD to avoid anything but minimal damage from med to large missiles.
As has been mentioned we have the largest sig, slow speed, crap aglity, slowest locking time and has not been mentioned the smallest drone bays.
Before the missile patch drones were not a issue and until you got to BS you had very little need to train them or so I found.
Personally cal ships i now fly a Harpy and am testing and training up skills for a mega (which apprently can still one shot NPC frigs no problems with pretty much no problems with a max of 1.5 mil gunnery skills)...
Basicly I would be happy if they removed some of the pre cold war balncing that they hit Cal ships with, and I reckon most cal pilots would feel the same way...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.10.11 00:17:00 -
[165]
I'd like to express my dislike of the new Stealth Systems idea.
That is all.
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Kyguard
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Posted - 2005.10.11 02:18:00 -
[166]
Ah, this marks the end of BS gank setups and sniper setups 
--
God is on the side with the best artillery |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2005.10.11 02:42:00 -
[167]
Long long time ago, ships in the game is actually capable of prolonged, tanked combat. Then players complained that shield tanking is too powerful and cap relays had to be nerfed. Then eventually, the Caldari BS defensive bonuses were replaced.
Later, shield boosting battleships were dying in seconds from volleys of tech 2 megapulsing gankeddons.
Just one example of the many changes in the game that weakened defensive measures (hardener nerfs) while boosting offensive ones (tech 2 weapons). Turning the game combat into short lived ganks.
Now we're back in the cycle we need to increase defense again.
A suggestion.
Change cap relay penalties from shield boost penalty to a small (10%) signature increase penalty. Make cap relays activatable on ship so they can be turned on and off. This gives you more tactical options.
Currently because of the cap relay penalties, armor tanking has a major advantage over shield boost. This suggestion evens the field for every one.
Cap Flux penalty changed 15% cap reduction to 15% speed reduction. If you want to tank, be a tank---slow. Like the Relays, the Fluxes can be turned on and off on flight. This lets you control the module, and you don't have to deal with the penalty on transit.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.11 05:58:00 -
[168]
ôwill the shield extenders/plates have the 25% buff?ö
So far no hitpoint buff but the specs might not be finial. Only the ships got a buff which gave me 1600 ish extra hitpoints after skills + implant.
öwhat is happening to shield recharge?
will the recharge times be increased by 25% to keep the recharge/second the samö
Recharge stays the same so far. Due to the 60+sig per shield extender you are worse off so no need to charge recharge rate. my sig is 600 to 660 depending on setup.
I will be trying out the new resistance tonight after 17:00. If there is anything you want me to test leave a message here or eve mail me.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Kiwimagic
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Posted - 2005.10.11 10:49:00 -
[169]
Can we please leave the game alone for a little while. i realise you devs have to justify your employment but all you seem to be comming up with are nerfs to fix previous nerfs that didn't work properly or created an unforseen imbalance. I'd suggest you iron out bugs rather than make drastic changes to ships and ship mod's. There already exists a sig radius mod its called a "cloak" if you wanna be hard to see fit it. and adding sig radius penalities to ship shield extenders etc well u will have to have the same penality to things like cap extenders.
the shield extender nerf is pointless, u get more shield yes but it'll be out weighed cos the extra shield will melt with the added damage u take from the sig penality, so way to go you just made a rarely used mod pointless. just remove them from the game and be done with it.
Leave Caldari alone, spend some time fixing bugs and removing macro miners
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Manny Tanato
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Posted - 2005.10.11 12:15:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Manny Tanato on 11/10/2005 12:16:22
Originally by: Kiwimagic
the shield extender nerf is pointless, u get more shield yes but it'll be out weighed cos the extra shield will melt with the added damage u take from the sig penality
I hope the devs get this loud and clear. Most people agree that this is utterly pointless.
I also hope the devs realise that this sort of change will create alot of bad blood for the Caldari, especially coming hot on the heels of the Cold War missile changes.
You guys need to step back and consider the emotional/human side of this issue.
-=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=- |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.10.11 12:27:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Manny Tanato
You guys need to step back and consider the emotional/human side of this issue.
Bwaahaahha...
Sorry, but no... it's just a game FFS
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Manny Tanato
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Posted - 2005.10.11 13:32:00 -
[172]
Keep your smart ass comments to yourself Gabriel, I'm pointing out a valid issue here. Take a look at the mood of the posters in the previous pages, resentment and frustration is apparent.
The simple fact of the matter is that people put in real life time and effort (and not to mention the requisite money for subscription) to get somewhere in this game, and all that looks to be swept away by a series of nerfs, seemingly aimed at the Caldari at the moment.
And that last point is something that has been independently mentioned time and again by many other people, not just me.
-=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=- |
Arnt
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Posted - 2005.10.11 13:33:00 -
[173]
I wonder why all those changes are directed to how combat goes, and no changes to how combat is initiated/avoided.
When you are a programmer and have a situation to solve (for example the 10vs1 wich is no fun for the majority of customers -err players) you can act in three ways :
- modify the 10vs1 action (how the fight goes)
- modify the ability to avoid 10vs1 (escape methods)
- modify the ability to start 10vs1 (to make it less likely)
action : for exemple : stacking penalties by how many people actually deal with you. (many problems with existing gameplay)
avoid : for exemple : a module increasing your ability to warp faster (and stronger vs warp scrambles) by how many people actually deal with you. (many problems with existing gameplay)
start : gates, stations, belts, moons / planets : I find it weird that with the vastness of space CCP never tried a different way of engaging battles.
It's that hard to add a "fleet battle" option in the gang's leader menu? And adress the problems there? In this 10vs1 exemple it would scatter the fleets in smaller groups somewhat balanced. Less lag too ya know?
And you can go on like that as long as you wish. Create your own rules as you see them fit : Give a "fight" value to ship types (frig = 1, BS= 5) and make the balancing of strenght based on this. Fight a fixed time without warping in/out, basically making "rounds". Allow small, organized, gangs to attack much larger ones but by giving them a malus to the strenght they'll have to face each round if choosing this method. Fleeing = out of the battle for next round too. Destruction = have to go get another ship to re-enter battle. Too many in one side? Some won't find opponents in a round. Hull at 12% after your 2nd round? Go repair, but miss round 3. Got bananas in cargo = have banana juice after 6 round victories. Whatever. Anything you like. You are limited only by your imagination and the need to fulfill players desires.
Got problems with your fleet battles? Make a fleet battle mode. If players are unhappy with it they just won't use it.
This is a game. This is a program. Lines of codes. Whatever effect you want to achieve, you can.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.10.11 20:03:00 -
[174]
We really don't need to improve escape methods. That WCS are so good only makes larger gangs necessary, which gives rise to gank squads.
What we need right now is a method (module/skill/whatever) which allows us to follow people into warp, to pursue. Or something. It's a bit binary right now - do or don't no second chance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving survivability, I enjoy good fights.
Oh, and shield extenders are fixed values, not percentual values. They just look like percentage on the extraction pages.
--
Neat sig, huh?
Can you figure out what it says? |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.11 20:20:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Ithildin
What we need right now is a method (module/skill/whatever) which allows us to follow people into warp, to pursue. Or something. It's a bit binary right now - do or don't no second chance.
Idea:
Homing Beacon Ammo
- Ammo that can be fitted into any launcher; there is one type of homing beacon for each launcher type, and its range, velocity, and graphics match those of a normal missile of that type (i.e. indistinguishable from anything else fired in that volley).
- Upon impact, the homing beacon does not inflict damage. Instead, it creates a mobile beacon that's active for 5 minutes and allows the person who fired it to warp to that ship wherever it's at (and bring his gang along, of course, if he's gang leader).
- Targets shot by this ammo do not receive a notification that they have an extra "passenger". 
-Wrayeth
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BABARR
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Posted - 2005.10.11 22:08:00 -
[176]
First : correct the bug who are exist before make new think.
Second : Increase the agro timer at the gate if you make heavy tanker ship. Or make a systeme where we can follow us prey throught the gate.
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Waut
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Posted - 2005.10.12 09:00:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Waut on 12/10/2005 09:16:13
Edited by: Waut on 12/10/2005 09:08:03
I don't see why shields need such a huge nerf. Shield extenders already were inferior compared to armor plates because of their higher fitting requirements, now a huge sig increase as well? Either nerf the armortankers so they are one the same level as shieldtankers or boost shieldtankers so they can get on the same level as armortankers. Don't nerf them both
The only thing that's keeping me to Caldari is ECM. Missiles (since the nerf) and shield tanking lost my love.
On the plus side, less than a day left for amarr cruiser IV. I'm looking forward on flying Amarr BS 
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.10.12 11:19:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Waut
I don't see why shields need such a huge nerf. Shield extenders already were inferior compared to armor plates because of their higher fitting requirements, now a huge sig increase as well? Either nerf the armortankers so they are one the same level as shieldtankers or boost shieldtankers so they can get on the same level as armortankers. Don't nerf them both
I don't think the devs ever recovered from the old shield tanking abuse.
And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.10.12 12:19:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Manny Tanato
Keep your smart ass comments to yourself Gabriel, I'm pointing out a valid issue here. Take a look at the mood of the posters in the previous pages, resentment and frustration is apparent.
The simple fact of the matter is that people put in real life time and effort (and not to mention the requisite money for subscription) to get somewhere in this game, and all that looks to be swept away by a series of nerfs, seemingly aimed at the Caldari at the moment.
And that last point is something that has been independently mentioned time and again by many other people, not just me.
And I was pointing out how moronic it was...
"Caldari hate"
"ZOMG! we're being nerfed into oblivion!"
"Will someone please think of the Children!!"
The point is your going nuts over something that isnt even implemented on the test server correctly yet.
I repeat, it's just a game. If it gets you that het up why are you even playing?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Waut
|
Posted - 2005.10.12 12:26:00 -
[180]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Waut
I don't see why shields need such a huge nerf. Shield extenders already were inferior compared to armor plates because of their higher fitting requirements, now a huge sig increase as well? Either nerf the armortankers so they are one the same level as shieldtankers or boost shieldtankers so they can get on the same level as armortankers. Don't nerf them both
I don't think the devs ever recovered from the old shield tanking abuse.
Must be before my time. Could you enlighten me 
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