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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
322
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
These have a use in PVP, and you'll be killing some emergent gameplay mechanics that have been in use, by my alliance at least.
- When conducting highsec ganking, or trying to scan down larger ships running missions, we will often employ deep space probes. Why? People do not realize these can scan down ships, thus, they do not panic when they see them on d-scan. This is a common tactic for scanning down large(er) battleships running lowsec missions, or scanning down miners in highsec for suicide ganking. they will often dock up if they see combat probes, but stay out if we use DSP's.
- they can be used by an advance scout to pop out one, and run a single cycle scan of larger systems to see if any ships are present in the system. this lets an FC quickly decide if a system can be skipped / moved through, or if he would like to have the scout spend a little time warping around or popping out combat probes and doing a more thorough search of the system.
- The Swift and Bitter Deep Space Probe Exploration Guide has helped plex runners speed up the rate at which they can identify and scan down the plexes they want to run for a long time now. this is a common tool used by many people to waste less time scanning down sites and increase their overall isk/hr. Link: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/
The above three points, while not 'game changing' are examples of emergent gameplay mechanics established for a long time now, and used by many players. They add to the depth and complexity of this game, and are all useful.
I would ask CCP reconsider their decision to remove DSP's given the above examples of their (unintended?) use. |
SmarncaV2
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
28
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree.
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
38
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 I agree Fast Character Switching:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233321&find=unread |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
326
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yet another example of their usefulness in PVP, sent to me by a friend just now:
"We use them in wormholes . We launch a single DSP and have a guy constantly cycling it looking for new inbound wormhole sigs (deteminerable by the DSP exploration guide I linked earlier), and ship signatures as a defensive measure while we rat sleepers." |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
353
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1
Makes exploration a lot less tedious as you can at least rule out a bunch of sigs. Agree on the doesn't freak people out as much as seeing combat probes on scan as well. This works on small WH corps sometimes as well as in highsec. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
353
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chandaris wrote:Yet another example of their usefulness in PVP, sent to me by a friend just now:
"We use them in wormholes . We launch a single DSP and have a guy constantly cycling it looking for new inbound wormhole sigs (deteminerable by the DSP exploration guide I linked earlier), and ship signatures as a defensive measure while we rat sleepers."
Thanks! Not thought of that before. Will use (if they don't remove them). |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
138
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
+1
this probe redo...not sure from what trashcan they pulled it out from but it needs to go back there.
Losing these probes, and the skill level needed to run this is not even getting reimbursed. Only needed for this item and covert portal generator. And unless sales have shot up....at one point in time there were more titans than blops on the server.
I would say more skill was good for more probes but ccp said you really didn't want 8 probes, did you? |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
327
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP. Forcin us to give up all our stealthy DSP secrets in order to save them
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Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
78
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 multiple times |
Till Riedell
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1
Please stop trying to ninja nerf things ccp. I want my deep space probes. |
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Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Since when are DSPs being removed? |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Since when are DSPs being removed?
Since SiSi, where they have already added the Scanning for Dummies system scanner, and converted all of my DSPs into Sisters Core and vanilla Core scan probes respectively. |
Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
72
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
14 days wasted on training for deep space :D |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
87
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Xavier Thorm wrote:Since when are DSPs being removed? Since SiSi, where they have already added the Scanning for Dummies system scanner, and converted all of my DSPs into Sisters Core and vanilla Core scan probes respectively.
I really like the new scanning system, but I'm sad they're removing DSPs, especially without saying anything about that before (unless I just missed that somehow). |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Xavier Thorm wrote:Since when are DSPs being removed? Since SiSi, where they have already added the Scanning for Dummies system scanner, and converted all of my DSPs into Sisters Core and vanilla Core scan probes respectively. I really like the new scanning system, but I'm sad they're removing DSPs, especially without saying anything about that before (unless I just missed that somehow).
If anything was explicitly stated, then I missed it as well. First thing I noticed about it was when my DSPs were removed from Sisi and replac with vanilla core probes.
I guess the devs, who likely never scan anything outside of internal testing, feel that the new Scanning for Dummies system scanner replaces the functionality of DSPs for the majority of people (who weren't using them creatively) and so they can simply go. I personally haven't noticed this, but then, SiSi k-space is kind of a joke for getting a full range of scanning results anyway, and I didn't have an alt logged off down a WH for the last mirror. |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
327
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yes. this basically boils down I am sure to the devs not realizing these probes are used for stuff other than just scanning down anoms, but that they actually have a variety of uses outside of PVE scanning.
Please keep bumping this thread until we at least get some acnowledgement that it has been read and considered or DSP's will be gone forever :( |
Shegunna Blow
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
So everyone realizes the "drop a single probe" convenience is a non-issue due to now being able to launch seven at once, right?
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
328
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Shegunna Blow wrote:So everyone realizes the "drop a single probe" convenience is a non-issue due to now being able to launch seven at once, right?
I suppose. but you're missing the point that they are removing 256 AU probes, which are horribly useful. Not to mention that afaik you can still OPT to drop a single probe, if you want to use the DSP tool I linked above. |
Urban Trucker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lord I remember how much time I spent training up Deep Space Probes. Was in a C4 wormhole at the time, and scanning down anoms in the connecting C3 SUCKED without the Deep Space Probe.
It helps.. especially when there are 25 anom's to scan down. I want to go have fun, not scan down every site...
They have not given a Reason for actually removing the Deep Space Probe. Please do not. You'd just **** off a bunch of people. I am for sale (Fenrir Freighter Pilot, 1.4 mil skillpoints, cheap)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2982440#post2982440 |
Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 i use em for pvp |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
17
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shegunna Blow wrote:So everyone realizes the "drop a single probe" convenience is a non-issue due to now being able to launch seven at once, right?
Except that I can now only drop seven. I can't drop a DSP and idle it while I use those seven probes for something else. (Especially since I don't even have a DSP anymore.) I can't drop 8 scan probes and run them in two groups of four. I still have to go through the hassle of setting up four or five probe constellations manually, since the factory presets are the only presets, and seem to be designed only to drop seven at a time.
In making things 'easier,' they've also seemingly locked some of us out of useful, if more difficult, functionality that we enjoyed. All of the things they have added could have been done without removing the things that they did.
After playing with this a bit on SiSi, it's obvious that CCP envisions the Scanning for Dummies system scanner they have added to replace the only function of DSPs that they cared about, which is scanning large systems to see if there are any sigs at all. I may be reading it wrong, but the new % reading and bar graph doesn't seem to be banding the way the old DSPs did, so that's more lost functionality as well. |
Linkxsc162534
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
DSPs should stay, they make WH life a lot simpler. Never used them for PVP but thats a great idea, cause even if people were looking for probes on Dscan, you could just set the thing off to the side so that its not in Dscan range of the area you're probing.
Yeah it might be a little more difficult and slower for a player to use right off, but you can save yourself a lot of time in other places, not wasting time scanning down worthless |
Kelrift
V.O.I.D. Shadow Cartel
2
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 I use DSP's in both PvP and Basic System Recon |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
87
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Posted - 2013.05.09 23:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Shegunna Blow wrote:So everyone realizes the "drop a single probe" convenience is a non-issue due to now being able to launch seven at once, right?
Except that I can now only drop seven. I can't drop a DSP and idle it while I use those seven probes for something else. (Especially since I don't even have a DSP anymore.) I can't drop 8 scan probes and run them in two groups of four. I still have to go through the hassle of setting up four or five probe constellations manually, since the factory presets are the only presets, and seem to be designed only to drop seven at a time. In making things 'easier,' they've also seemingly locked some of us out of useful, if more difficult, functionality that we enjoyed. All of the things they have added could have been done without removing the things that they did. After playing with this a bit on SiSi, it's obvious that CCP envisions the Scanning for Dummies system scanner they have added to replace the only function of DSPs that they cared about, which is scanning large systems to see if there are any sigs at all. I may be reading it wrong, but the new % reading and bar graph doesn't seem to be banding the way the old DSPs did, so that's more lost functionality as well.
This gives me some really good insight that kinda sours my opinion of the upcoming changes. That's sad. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
496
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Posted - 2013.05.09 23:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
yeah I dont know why they want to remove them, they are an awesome addition to the probing system.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
17
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Posted - 2013.05.09 23:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:
This gives me some really good insight that kinda sours my opinion of the upcoming changes. That's sad.
Thing is, I don't even necessarily have a problem with what they've done. Dummies system scanner? OK. Preset constellations? I'd prefer to save & recall my own, but OK. It's what they took out that really proves bothersome. No 8th probe? No DSPs? Possibly no banding? Not liking that much.
I see no reason from a playability standpoint that both systems can't be in place. I understand there's code beneath the hood that I have no clue about. And I understand how bad probes used to be a few releases ago. But they had it almost perfect already, and this is too much toward 'easy.' It's like seeing that some people need help learning to ride the bike, so instead of bolting on some training wheels to take off later, they've made them a necessary part of the frame that can never be removed, even after you learn how to ride. |
RoAnnon
Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab
63
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Posted - 2013.05.10 00:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bump and +1 for Great Justice |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice R O G U E
47
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Posted - 2013.05.10 00:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't like what CCP is doing there either, so +1 from me. That move is so "un-EVE like". Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
383
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Posted - 2013.05.10 01:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 this is bogus |
kai il
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
2
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Posted - 2013.05.10 01:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1 dont remove them! I just trained for them >.> |
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