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Sticky:Dev Blog: Reinventing the Radial Menu for Odyssey

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 18 post(s)
TheLostPenguin Surreal Departure 57	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:47:00 - [31] - Quote Sounds interesting, as it stands the radial menu is something I only ever access by mistake, usually in the 'attempting to move camera' scenario, much prefer to use rclick/selected item window for actions as it stands, but willing to see if this leads to it being something I find actually useful. Just, please please please don't do anything silly like messing with the rclick menus "because you've got this awesome new way to do things", and leave the duplicated functionality there, at the very least it'll take some time to get used to using this and I'm sure plenty will prefer to use rclick menu still at least some of the time, lasy occasion things were changed around in the rclick menu was a pita, with options no longer in the places they'd been forever. (And yes I know there's no mention of making any such change in the blog, but it's the sort of silly thing that I can see all too likely to occur )
Max Kolonko High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance 286	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:49:00 - [32] - Quote One huge problem - when holding middle mouse button (my voice activation key) and clicking LMP radial menu opens without delay or even holding mouse button, just clicking on things I had not set MMP to "radial menu" shortcut (i have none defined) so this should not happen Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Lyta Jhonson Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 17	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:49:00 - [33] - Quote As I get it radial menu was redesigned from the scratch but from user point of view it does not differs much from old one. In the sisi feedback thread it was confirmed that current radial menu isn't used much by players. So why do you think new one will be used more? And what is the point in duplicating functions between context and radial menus? Argument about muscule memory does not seem valid as context menu also benefits from it and thinking that context menus are too bloated now should lead to desire to remove unnecesary options from them instead of creating new and alternative radial menu.

CCP karkur C C P C C P Alliance 2126	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:53:00 - [34] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: One huge problem - when holding middle mouse button (my voice activation key) and clicking LMP radial menu opens without delay or even holding mouse button, just clicking on things I had not set MMP to "radial menu" shortcut (i have none defined) so this should not happen I think you are talking about a bug that has not been fixed on Sisi (where you used the radial menu shortcut once and it kept acting like it was still down) CCP karkur \| User Interface Programmer \| Team Pony Express \| @CCP karkur

Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 893	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:58:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Sharq wrote: Markus Reese wrote: Eve had a radial menu? HAS... Click and hold left mouse button on a bracket in the world-space, radial menu appears. ..... What? I first made an account in 2005 and i didn't know about this /o\ BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 3384	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:01:00 - [36] - Quote And now for my "haven't even tried it but I don't like it" whine: In UI design, any modified action must be a sensible extension of the action being modified. Thus the outcome of pressing Shift+A must be something similar to pressing A (in most cases, you get a capital A instead of a lowercase a). The context is important though, since pressing "a" while in a text entry field will result in an "a" appearing in the text entry field, while pressing "a" in a numeric entry field will result in a rude noise from the computer. The way the radial menu works currently is that you click and hold in space. I don't like this because the reason I'm clicking in space in the first place is to move the camera. Whether the new radial menu resolves the issue of "click just a little bit too long and you end up approaching someone and dropping your gate cloak instead of looking around you to see who is about to shoot you" or not I don't know. Ideally there would be some kind of pre-action feedback that indicates to the player that clicking here will bring up the radial menu. This would be the case for brackets in space, for example: when the mouse cursor enters the "region" of a bracket in space the bracket will get a faint circle around it (similar to the "item is selected" circle but fainter and thicker), so you know that clicking at this point will bring up a radial menu. Changing the mouse cursor also works, but the EVE mouse cursor is pretty tiny compared to the huge screens we use these days. Thus you have two different contexts, which a human can easily handle: one is clicking in space (which allows one to move the camera) or clicking on a thing (which is not space, thus is a different context, and does a different thing). Of course in an ideal world we'd all be playing using HD Oculus Rifts, so panning the camera around would be achieved by turning your head. And then we'd have 3D kinect style interfaces, so interacting with objects in space would be done by pointing at or touching them. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
blazegryph Corpy Hooves 9	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:02:00 - [37] - Quote As long my current right-click menu, both in station and inflight is not modified, i'll be happy
Trebor Daehdoow Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 2939	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:18:00 - [38] - Quote MainDrain wrote: The ability to select an item via the radial menu using a number key could also be useful for the default actions. Keys around the S for righties, Keys around the Numpad-5 for lefties. On CSM, masochism is not an option -- it's a requirement!
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 2900	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:30:00 - [39] - Quote Nested right click menus are the worst thing ever invented in the history of computing, so any ideas to make the current situation better are welcome. However, I'm an impatient man. I want things now, and not after a delay, especially these kind of control options- so a modifier key I could press before clicking an object in space to bring up this radial menu would be nice. The delay is the reason I haven't even seen the current radial menu in years. Waiting to get to issue commands is uncool, gief bacon nao! Secondly I currently use keyboard shortcuts for controlling the ship (select from overview, Q/A/D etc). Instead of replicating these in the radial menu, I would love to see the other, less used options in the radial menu. All in all, I'd be very very happy if I could use only this radial menu and normal shortcuts and never suffer a nested r-click menu in my EVE again. And pretty please- could you add a simple keyboard shortcut for "Launch drones"? Just like the navigation commands, I could press for example "T", then click on a drone group and wooosh, there they go in space. I know the drone UI revamp has been put on backburner possibly forever, but this simple improvement would make many people happy. -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
Kaildoth Greek Death Squad 17	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:43:00 - [40] - Quote i dont get whats wrong with the old menu, i like it and im used to it, why they want to change everything :( hate those radial fancy menus... oh well..
Dirk Space Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:48:00 - [41] - Quote How do you turn off the radial menu? I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side. I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is. Please make sure that this is optional. Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.

CCP karkur C C P C C P Alliance 2127	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:51:00 - [42] - Quote Dirk Space wrote: How do you turn off the radial menu? I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side. I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is. Please make sure that this is optional. Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI. It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day CCP karkur \| User Interface Programmer \| Team Pony Express \| @CCP karkur

Yankunytjatjara Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 57	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:55:00 - [43] - Quote Is there an option to deactivate the radial menu completely? If not, could you add it? It gets in the way of my user experience for example, when trying to double click in space close to something big, to go the direction I want that happens to be hidden by said big thing, and opens up. My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors
Yankunytjatjara Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 57	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:56:00 - [44] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Please do make it optional, it's just an additional checkbox in the settings and a check in the code, and you'll please many a bittervet! My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4159	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:01:00 - [45] - Quote Yankunytjatjara wrote: CCP karkur wrote: It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Please do make it optional, it's just an additional checkbox in the settings and a check in the code, and you'll please many a bittervet! Ahhh, if only life was actually this simplistic. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Olaf4862 KnownUnknown 23	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:04:00 - [46] - Quote It seems like the big complaint is not the menu itself but how fast it appears. I think having the option to adjust the delay may not be good as it just adds a layer of complexity most players will not use or just create more confusion over the feature. Instead just make it a fixed time. I bet 1.5 secs would feel about right as most players can click on something quickly but that would be a long enough delay to make it feel like its booting up the radial menu vrs just selecting something in space with a left click. Also id say radial menu everything. In station even more so as item management and ship stuff is a pain enough as is with the right click menu id love a quick click radial menu to save time in station.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4159	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:06:00 - [47] - Quote Shiuri wrote: CCP karkur wrote: They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay This is good because the more I try to use it, the less I want to use it. The layout of the buttons is sub-optimal at best. The Primary Action button is in the top-most position and it is generally the button you least want to hit in a stressful situation, the navigation buttons are thrown all over the place... I've said this elsewhere but I would suggest moving the Primary Action button somewhere else and having the target or approach/align button at the top, with all the navigation buttons next to each other like the current radial menu. The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object. The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 3390	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:08:00 - [48] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day What we really need is mouses with more buttons! Mine has 5. Perhaps we could remap "pan the camera" to a different mouse button? It would also be nice if brackets "near" the mouse cursor would be immune to shuffling for a short while, similar to the way the overview will not shift items around while the mouse is within its borders with the Ctrl key held down. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Hevlikn Ilunar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:19:00 - [49] - Quote Having been doing large amounts of testing with the current Odyssey patch on Sisi I have a few comments, first however, i shall put things into perspective. I currently run eve at it's lowest graphics settings, with all options but "effects" disabled, and with the current build on TQ i get a nice constant 20fps, even at the peak of a ~200 man battle. This works well for me, and has for the last 2 years. As it stands, the features implemented with odyssey break my little world of happy compromises, making me want to rip my own eyes out rather than suffer the lag further. I notice, of all the things, the radial menu is the worst. I have absolute confidence that CCP will do further optimisation, however radial menus are not, and never will be, practical in a high demand situation such as a fleet battle, or a high pressure situation, such as the Alliance tournament. Goodness knows what'll happen if you make the titan jump/bridge menu a radial.
Chokichi Ozuwara Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R. 517	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:21:00 - [50] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day It's really, really bad UI tho. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly 696	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:23:00 - [51] - Quote Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: CCP karkur wrote: but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day It's really, really bad UI tho. the whole UI is terrible now because people can't double click in space near an object...that doesn't make much sense however CCP Karkur, this menu really shouldn't interfere with concentration or quickness of pvp reflexes and manual piloting of the ship
Darvaleth Sigma 226	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:27:00 - [52] - Quote Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty? I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this? Give a man a match and you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Merouk Baas 652	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:34:00 - [53] - Quote I'll tell you what, a big part of Odyssey for me will be this: If you make this radial menu mandatory and take away my ability to turn it off I will ***** cancel my subscription on the spot. EDIT: I see Karkur's reply above. ** you.

CCP karkur C C P C C P Alliance 2128	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:38:00 - [54] - Quote Darvaleth Sigma wrote: Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty? I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this? we are not touching the right click menu CCP karkur \| User Interface Programmer \| Team Pony Express \| @CCP karkur

Barr Kola Byers Road 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:38:00 - [55] - Quote i tried the rad. ui, and hated it, felt very slow and awkward to use, and as for giving mouse buttons, what about us mortals that just have a standard mouse, I wouldnt call the wheel on it a button, and why is this not being made optional? Feels like working in trecale
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 2462	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:38:00 - [56] - Quote Ugh so many complaints! Not from me though... I love it. I'd love to have radial menus wherever possible! Maybe you could retain certain right click menus as an option... but for instance when I'm looking in corp or fleet chat and someone pops a cyno I'd much rather be able to click on the cyno char and have "jump to" as an option, instead of hitting R-click and sifting trough the zillion interaction options. "Remove character from corp?" That's not an option I would choose very often... "Jump to member?" Use it all the time. Surely the devs can sift through the most often used options and put them in a radial menu. There's a ton of places that could be applied and save us all valuable seconds in hot situations (like jumping). +9001 for radial menus. (GÇó_GÇó) ( GÇó_GÇó)>GîÉGûá-Gûá (GîÉGûá_Gûá)
blazegryph Corpy Hooves 9	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:46:00 - [57] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: Darvaleth Sigma wrote: Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty? I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this? we are not touching the right click menu Then am happy .. was fearing this cr*p of radial menus was going to replace old good rightclick menuses. And i LOVE my old-fashioned rightclick menuses.
Shiuri 4	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:47:00 - [58] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object. How often do you "View in Planet Mode" when you're out in hostile space? Because when I highlight a planet in my overview the last thing I want to do is view the ********** in Planet Mode. Ranger 1 wrote:** The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea. The current radial menu has them next to each other and it's a much better scheme than the new scattered format.
Darnok Iksnibiks Unconstrained Design 8	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:50:00 - [59] - Quote Does the radial menu sense context on what I want to click in space? Or, I need to hit and hover L-click exactly on icon I want to interact with? Biggest pain with old/current menu was to hit moving objects... Particularly frigs/inties... Or any item in space from MWD frig perspective. Additionally, how many sub-menus on 3 o'clock "+" button I need to dig, til I can warp to moon/POCO at 100km, when pointing on planet or empty space? By r-click menu its like : r click --> planets --> moons --> warp at --> 100km when pointing anywhere in space. When clicking on planet itself, it's one step less, but still few to many. With regards
C DeLeon Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys HUN Reloaded 138	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:54:00 - [60] - Quote I'm part of the minority who already used the radial menu (because I'm lazy and 1 click is better then 2 for the same result) so I'm happy for this. It would be great if we would be able to use a similar radial menu to set up directional scanner range and angle. (and fix invention)

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