Hey Pilots!

As CCP Karkur said, tell us what you think about the Radial Menu revamp.

Touch screen interface incoming! I can't wait.

EDIT: And why is "To Captain's Quarters" an option on the right-click menu for a ship in your hangar? Unless it does something awesome like drop the Rifter in your CQ? It might be worth revisiting those menus...

Eve had a radial menu?

Yes, EVE has a radial menu. You will only encounter it when it's least useful to you, usually when you're trying to turn the camera around and happen to drag an object by accident.

This iteration of the radial menu looks like it will be useful, some good work from kick-arse devs like CCP karkur & team. I won't be able to provide feedback until I get home, which sadly means after Odyssey goes live.

Don't believe they're keeping the option of the middle mouse button, which is a shame with how much the thing lags out now.

I would like some customization of how long it takes to trigger the radial menu, or even a key to hold down to trigger it instantly when clicking on something in space... as an alternative to having to old down the mouse for a sec...

even if you only add a function in the shortcut menu under ESC, that people have to add their own desired key to, that would be enough... say I wanted the radial to show up instantly when I left clicked on something, I just have to add a key like < or alt or whatever... and then hold that down + mouse 1.

it might be useful to also allow people to change what mouse number to click to activate the radial menu, such as using the center mouse (3).

They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay

And we are working on the lag, and I believe it's solved for the most parts

I would like some customization of how long it takes to trigger the radial menu, or even a key to hold down to trigger it instantly when clicking on something in space... as an alternative to having to old down the mouse for a sec...

even if you only add a function in the shortcut menu under ESC, that people have to add their own desired key to, that would be enough... say I wanted the radial to show up instantly when I left clicked on something, I just have to add a key like < or alt or whatever... and then hold that down + mouse 1.

it might be useful to also allow people to change what mouse number to click to activate the radial menu, such as using the center mouse (3).

They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay

when I click the scanner button, I want the scanner. not sub menus from the scanner that I have to click to get the scanner open. major annoyance imo

rest of them are ok, slow and laggy and seam to cause the mouse to do random things. I will avoid them like the plage thanks for the effort though

The scanner radial menu is a different one, if i recall correctly. That one you still have to click the buttons.

The scanner radial menu is a different one, if i recall correctly. That one you still have to click the buttons.

One huge problem - when holding middle mouse button (my voice activation key) and clicking LMP radial menu opens without delay or even holding mouse button, just clicking on things

I had not set MMP to "radial menu" shortcut (i have none defined) so this should not happen

HAS... Click and hold left mouse button on a bracket in the world-space, radial menu appears.

The ability to select an item via the radial menu using a number key could also be useful for the default actions.

How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day

Please do make it optional, it's just an additional checkbox in the settings and a check in the code, and you'll please many a bittervet!

This is good because the more I try to use it, the less I want to use it. The layout of the buttons is sub-optimal at best. The Primary Action button is in the top-most position and it is generally the button you least want to hit in a stressful situation, the navigation buttons are thrown all over the place... I've said this elsewhere but I would suggest moving the Primary Action button somewhere else and having the target or approach/align button at the top, with all the navigation buttons next to each other like the current radial menu.

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day

but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day

It's really, really bad UI tho.

Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty?

I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this?

we are not touching the right click menu

The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object.

The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea.

Keys around the S for righties, Keys around the Numpad-5 for lefties.

Does the radial menu sense context on what I want to click in space? Or, I need to hit and hover L-click exactly on icon I want to interact with? Biggest pain with old/current menu was to hit moving objects... Particularly frigs/inties... Or any item in space from MWD frig perspective.

Additionally, how many sub-menus on 3 o'clock "+" button I need to dig, til I can warp to moon/POCO at 100km, when pointing on planet or empty space? By r-click menu its like : r click --> planets --> moons --> warp at --> 100km when pointing anywhere in space. When clicking on planet itself, it's one step less, but still few to many.

With regards

How often do you "View in Planet Mode" when you're out in hostile space? Because when I highlight a planet in my overview the last thing I want to do is view the ************ in Planet Mode.


The current radial menu has them next to each other and it's a much better scheme than the new scattered format.

we are not touching the right click menu

The picking in space is the same, but you can use the new one in your overview and on targets too.
To warp to a moon at 100 km, click on it, get the radial menu, go to the warp option and drag the mouse out to set the range.

How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.

I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.

One of the main problems with the current menus that it is too easy to hit the wrong "button" as similar functions are located right next to each other. Similar controls in a radial menu need consistancy in placement, and separation of similar easily confused options.

If you can't get a handle on the logic of the placement of the nav buttons, perhaps you should stick to the right click menu. It's really not that difficult of a concept.

Well you already know what I think of it.
Don't you, CCP Sharq

Well done

I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.

Can you spam click on targets with it?

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day

I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.

I am open-minded enough to give it a go but if I don't like it, if it ruins my eve experience like the integrated inventory did, what then?

That could be a bonus we get out of this! but not our first priority when we started this project.

[quote=CCP karkur]I am open-minded enough to give it a go but if I don't like it, if it ruins my eve experience like the integrated inventory did, what then?

1. primary action for a ship in space should be lock it
except for switching supercapital pilots in a super/titan i cant remember a single case where i encountered a situation where i want to board a ship.

2. i have not tested it, but it should also work for watchlist and broadcast window. (locking goes fast with ctrl click, but for align/warp orbit stuff it would probably nice)

CCP, i will be realy greatful if you will make hotkey for radial menu and it will open instantly (w/o delay with LCM press on for a moment).
For example alt+LCM (or other combination, make it custom option) on brecet, object in overview or other condition when radial menu appears.
So alt+LCM and we "summon" (have no idea how to say :) ) radial menu.

ok we'll do it... and we are done.... wow, that was easy
The shortcut is set in the ESC menu, under "General"
(ok, I'll admit that I had already implemented it like that )

In fact the radial menu UI pattern is going through a bit of a renaissance these days due to touch screen interfaces and it is becoming the weapon of choice for many UI developers both for touch and mouse input interfaces.

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day

...In fact the radial menu UI pattern is going through a bit of a renaissance these days due to touch screen interfaces and it is becoming the weapon of choice for many UI developers both for touch and mouse input interfaces. This fitted perfectly to the plan; We had found our silver bullet.

We started the design by having lock as primary action for ships. The problem with that is that locking becomes inconsistent when locking other stuff tha have different actions attached as primary. So this is what we did. Lock is always in the same place no matter what you are locking.

Hey CCP

Can we please please please get an option to turn it off altogether. I'm sure what you are doing to improve it is great but I spent almost all of my time flying with the tactical overly up and zoomed so I can see a range of about 60km in all directions, I am forever turning the camera and accidentally bringing up the radial menu on an item I can't even see and getting the show info window pop up or have the ship tell me it is alligning and I have to stop and then reposition etc.

Thanks
Fitz

Navigation options are placed on the 45 degree axis; Align, Warp To, Keep at Range and Orbit. The range of these options depends on the distance of the mouse pointer from the center of the menu. So all ranges can be set in a single motion, their placement is deliberate to minimize errors.

It seems the most requested feature is the ability to turn the radial menu completely off.

Radial menus may look pretty, but if they were good UI design they would have been deployed in a lot of other applications. They are not. In fact, EVE is the only application I can think of that use radial menus.

Thanks for keeping an open mind

We should at least not panic right now
Try it out on Sisi if you guys get a chance. I have checked in the mousebutton binding and delay change, but I am not sure when Sisi will be updated, but probably either tomorrow or the next day.

I have never used the radial menu we have on TQ today, but when I was playing on TQ over the weekend, I was really missing my new radial menu when I was jumping through gates and docking and stuff

Hey CCP

Can we please please please get an option to turn it off altogether. I'm sure what you are doing to improve it is great but I spent almost all of my time flying with the tactical overly up and zoomed so I can see a range of about 60km in all directions, I am forever turning the camera and accidentally bringing up the radial menu on an item I can't even see and getting the show info window pop up or have the ship tell me it is alligning and I have to stop and then reposition etc.

Thanks
Fitz

we are not touching the right click menu

It seems the most requested feature is the ability to turn the radial menu completely off.

Radial menus may look pretty, but if they were good UI design they would have been deployed in a lot of other applications. They are not. In fact, EVE is the only application I can think of that use radial menus.

One of the main problems with the current menus is that it is entirely too easy to click the "wrong" button because buttons that do something entirely different from what you want done are in illogical places, like right next to buttons that do what you want done. This is not changing with the new radial menu. Grouping items that do similar things is natural, scattering them to the four winds is confusing.


No ****, right? That's exactly what I said in my OP that you decided to take issue with. How about you just let it go because I'm airing my grievances to CCP in a comments thread. Thanks.

Yay, radial menu... let us know what you think :)

You can turn it off, yes? Because I HATE radials. I don't remember the icons so words are always faster, so I want to be able to turn if off completely, as I can already with the current one.

Can you explain this a bit more?

"Navigation options are placed on the 45 degree axis; Align, Warp To, Keep at Range and Orbit. The range of these options depends on the distance of the mouse pointer from the center of the menu. So all ranges can be set in a single motion, their placement is deliberate to minimize errors."

Might be one of those things easier to see than explain, but I can't get on Sisi till the next mirror.

If you click on the object, say a gate, and go to Warp to you'll warp to the gate at the default range. If however you go past the Warp 'wedge' of the circle, whilst staying in line with Warp, you will see range indicators (graphic and text) increasing up to the maximum allowable for that action. This allows for specification of both the action and a parameter (if you like) within the bounds of the gesture.

If you just leave your mouse in place, you'll notice the range is whatever you have set as default.

The further away from the center of the circle you go with your mouse the futher away from the object you orbit, if you move your mouse closer to the center the tighter your orbit will be.

They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay

And we are working on the lag, and I believe it's solved for the most parts

It might be interesting to have the radial menu triggered by keypad-5, with the options mapped to the remaining number buttons. That would make a new world of shortcuts that are inbetween single-purpose Ctrl+Key shortcuts and clicking the mouse for everything.

Heh, and I was just trying to log into sisi to re verify and simplify my post.

Ed:



That's wrong btw :) The default is the wedge. It then goes to minimum just outside the wedge, through to maximum the further out you go.

Edit: You're right, it's easier to just look at it than to try to explain it.

Ok, Think I get it. Mouse down on item, drag over action, drag beyond menu on to "range menu arm" and mouse up


Yes?

They're doing a mirror tomorrow I think, so will know then.

Thanks for the info.

I don't know why nobody linked this, but you can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUv73akegEM&t=4m50s

HAS... Click and hold left mouse button on a bracket in the world-space, radial menu appears.

The idea is to implement the radial menu [...] When using the inventory, interacting with your ship in the hangar even for options on your weapons in the ship HUD.

Why is it that you have near endless resources for trivial UI updates, but the drone UI gets neglected for 10 years?

Why is it that you have near endless resources for trivial UI updates, but the drone UI gets neglected for 10 years?

It might be interesting to have the radial menu triggered by keypad-5, with the options mapped to the remaining number buttons. That would make a new world of shortcuts that are inbetween single-purpose Ctrl+Key shortcuts and clicking the mouse for everything.

It might be interesting to have the radial menu triggered by keypad-5, with the options mapped to the remaining number buttons. That would make a new world of shortcuts that are inbetween single-purpose Ctrl+Key shortcuts and clicking the mouse for everything.

Is it intended that this radial menu thingy be the only interface or can it be optional, all seem be very intrusive to me and not very intuitive in it's layout.

I already hate the radial menu in space, it keeps popping up when I only want to move the camera to look around...
there is such a thing as too interactive

How does this work for those of us that move the camera frequently during fights for recording... I have the pan/move constantly going.

Then increase the delay

An option to bind the radial menu to a key, or other mouse options would be nice at some point in the future.

ok we'll do it... and we are done.... wow, that was easy
The shortcut is set in the ESC menu, under "General"
(ok, I'll admit that I had already implemented it like that )

the whole UI is terrible now because people can't double click in space near an object...that train of thought doesn't make much sense

in it's current state, the radial menu will be used by only a fraction of us, because it doesn't add new functionality - it only provides commands that are already available and does that slower than hotkeys

And how do you give the commands "orbit this at 10 km" and then "now orbit this at 20 km" with a hotkey?

After playing some more, this is my feedback:

1. It's awesome and I want to use it for everything now, so I train myself to not use the nested right-click menus anymore whereever possible (old habits die hard). This requires that I set the delay to zero.

2. But I can't set it to zero because then the radial menu pops up instantly when I click on locked targets.

Often I just want to change the active target (switching primary, spread points etc), not do anything related to the radial menu to it, so the radial menu gets in the way in this case.

Worse, it is actually impossible to switch the active target when the delay is set to zero! Clicking a locked target then *only* opens the radial menu but does not make that target the active one. I'd call that a bug.

So I had to set the delay two notches to the right. This works okay, but it slows me down... I always have to hold the mouse for a second to give a command via the radial menu, which partially defeats its purpose.

Solutions:
1. Mandatory: Fix the bug so that clicking a locked target always makes it active regardless of whether the radial menu opens or not
2. Optional awesomeness: Allow to set a separate delay that only applies to the locked targets area