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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 10:54:00 -
[31]
OK my first impression comments which im sure will bore you all after the first sentence :) And yes, this will mainly be from a minmatar view point as thats what i fly.
Anyway:
Tackling Frigs
Glad you gave the slasher the extra speed. If the idea is for new guys to use these as cheap frigates for either webbing or warp scrambling, then I can see where this is going.
However, if you got rid of the damage bonuses (lets face it, there not going to be a great deal of use) and replaced it with an increase in their warp speed? Or perhaps cap use on tackling modules, perhaps that would suit their role better and make them more useful in their designed box?
Scout Frigates
Im still not sure the probe is the best ship for this role. But again im guessing you want new lads to be able to use scan probes quickly, so that might work
EWAR Im afraid i havent worked out how slower my Vigil will go with the speed reduction, so i cant comment on the tackling ability. I think the projectile bonus could be replaced with a more useful bonus, ECM cap usage? But im guessing your not allowed to change that and have to set a bonus to the guns. But to be honest, its kind of a dead bonus for a EWAR frigate.
Assault
I still think the Rifter could do with extra speed increase (but i havent knocked up any numbers yet so ignore that). I am a bit concerened at the new tankability of the frigates, but i like the tracking bonus on the guns of the Rifter, and id like to test it out when it gets up close.
EWAR cruisers
I still dont like the bellicose. Target painters are much better on the Vigil as its harder to hit and faster. On a slower bigger cruiser, I really doubt the effectiveness of these modules and think that the Bellicose will remain a hardly used ship. I think it defintely needs a bonus to a different ECM module, the only reason i can see it using the target painter one is that the Vigil has one. You gotta admit, it doesnt make much sense at the mo. I wouldnt want to see your changes go to waste mate.
Assault Cruisers
Liking these, cant wait to hop into a ruppy to see how these changes work out.
Destroyers
Dont fly these, cant really judge.
Battlecruisers
Quote:
Cyclone # Added a med slot
\o/. I still think that the shield boost bonus should simply be a resist bonus and have done with it. Same with the gallentte one. For example, the resist one applies all the time, even if you dont tank, it gives you extra durvivability. THe boost just applies to if you have a repairer/booster installed. Its reduced effectiveness in many situations. With teh addition of the caldari and amarrin being better at thier respecitve tanking. Does that make sense?
I also think that you need to look at the battlecruiser agility. There meant to be mini-battleships but effectively they are heavy cruisers. There meant to be mobile support for frigate groups (at least the Cyclone is) but the Cyclone is far too fat too be utilised in this role.
--
Apart from that, i think this is a great improvement from round 1. Keep up the good work mate.
[And i havent forgotten when you mentioned looking into the general Minmatar slot layouts :)] -
Just a simple warrior.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 10:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Chinsor projectile damage bonus to the vigil instead of speed seems fairly useless, its almost never used for anything else other than tackling in combat, if you wanted projectile damage you'd use a rifter
Its also used as a EWAR platform, a role in which it is quite useful. (though hardly use target painters on it, i find its mostly used in supression, which is a better form of EW imo) -
Just a simple warrior.
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.10.21 10:58:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
\o/. I still think that the shield boost bonus should simply be a resist bonus and have done with it. Same with the gallentte one. For example, the resist one applies all the time, even if you dont tank, it gives you extra durvivability. THe boost just applies to if you have a repairer/booster installed. Its reduced effectiveness in many situations. With teh addition of the caldari and amarrin being better at thier respecitve tanking. Does that make sense?
Minmatar and Gallente get a little bit worse tanking bonuses, although even that is still debatable but they do have better offensive bonuses. And you really can't complain about cyclone as it now has the same slot layout as Ferox only one more high slot. _______________ |
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 10:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Right. Personally for me i wont be flying these anyway. If i want to tackle ill take a Stiletto, its just that simple. People will always go for the best ship for the job, and for tech1 tacklers thatll still be the Vigil. Except for a few PIE nutcases, noone will use the Executioner.
Dude, you want a cheap as arse frigate to be better at tackling than a interceptor? -
Just a simple warrior.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:00:00 -
[35]
Sounds good to give the cyclone another med slot.. it can be very usefull now
Teddycorp signature... By myal terego www.evepirates.com/ |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:01:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/10/2005 11:03:58
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
\o/. I still think that the shield boost bonus should simply be a resist bonus and have done with it. Same with the gallentte one. For example, the resist one applies all the time, even if you dont tank, it gives you extra durvivability. THe boost just applies to if you have a repairer/booster installed. Its reduced effectiveness in many situations. With teh addition of the caldari and amarrin being better at thier respecitve tanking. Does that make sense?
Minmatar and Gallente get a little bit worse tanking bonuses, although even that is still debatable but they do have better offensive bonuses. And you really can't complain about cyclone as it now has the same slot layout as Ferox only one more high slot.
I aint complaining dude, just airing some thoughts :) I meant, does that make sense, as to mean am i making sense in what im trying to get across.
It's been creaming for a med slot for ages and i know a few cyclone pilots who will be very grateful for this. Hell, i might even start flying one :)
EDIT: But the gallente damage bonus does apply to all 7 of its turrets, whereas the Cyclone one only applies to 5 turrets, so the effectiveness of that rof bonus could be argued :) -
Just a simple warrior.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:01:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Pottsey on 21/10/2005 11:12:42 While this change is being done could you look at the gang assist modules. A lot of the module donĘt do what they say on the description IE the amour modules say they boost targeted amour repairers but they donĘt work with remote amour repairers. Along with the skill bugs.
Massive long shot here, as I know its never going happen. How about some passive shield tank ships and passive amour tank ships. IE +xx% to shield & amour hitpoints, (I put the & in there so that people can swap between extender and plates on the same ship) + xx to shield recharge(please on a gallante ship and make it a drone based ship ), + xx less amour speed penalty, -xx% less penalty for shield relays.
Also give the passive ships a negative perhaps ū50% to active shield boost and ū50% to amour repair. It would be nice to have viable ships based on plates and extenders that cannot use active boosters. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Pottsey While this change is being done could you look at the gang assist modules. A lot of the module donĘt do what they say on the description IE the amour modules say they boost targeted amour repairers but they donĘt work with remote amour repairers. Along with the skill bugs.
Massive long shot here, as I know its never going happen. How about some passive shield tank ships and passive amour tank ships. IE +xx% to shield & amour hitpoints, (I put the & in there so that people can swap between extender and plates on the same ship) + xx to shield recharge(please on a gallante ship and make it a drone based ship ), + xx less amour speed penalty, -xx% less penalty for shield relays.
That sounds so like something I delegating to Hammer _______________ |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
\o/. I still think that the shield boost bonus should simply be a resist bonus and have done with it. Same with the gallentte one. For example, the resist one applies all the time, even if you dont tank, it gives you extra durvivability. THe boost just applies to if you have a repairer/booster installed. Its reduced effectiveness in many situations. With teh addition of the caldari and amarrin being better at thier respecitve tanking. Does that make sense?
Minmatar and Gallente get a little bit worse tanking bonuses, although even that is still debatable but they do have better offensive bonuses. And you really can't complain about cyclone as it now has the same slot layout as Ferox only one more high slot.
I aint complaining dude, just airing some thoughts :) I meant, does that make sense, as to mean am i making sense in what im trying to get across.
It's been creaming for a med slot for ages and i know a few cyclone pilots who will be very grateful for this. Hell, i might even start flying one :)
What you not complaining, you invented the term "moaning minnies"
Truth to be told then the shield boost bonus is actually better then the resistance bonus when considering regeneration of shield. Hardening bonus results in a 33.3% bonus to shield booster because you need to repair less and the shield boost bonus is 37.5% at level 5. _______________ |
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:09:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/10/2005 11:10:58 Right, you confused me with numbers, not fair! But the Cyclone is alot more balanced with an additional med. So ill go and get off my arse and actually test it :)
EDIT: Did I ever mention that us freedom fighters are recruiting? I tried to get Hammer to come cleave some Amarrian skulls, but I fear the CCP Amarrian corporation have got him. For you, my friend, there is still hope :)
Join the dark side, but i aint gonna be your father. -
Just a simple warrior.
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Spaced Skunk
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:13:00 -
[41]
I think the changes are great :D Your making t1 frigs more PVP usable which for one is joy.
Your changing the thorax for the better IMO, as its in bad need of a nerf :D
Plus the newbies get a very good mining bonus :D YARRR!!! |
Gull De'Kuntos
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:17:00 -
[42]
Quote: Same question but with s/Caracal/Cerberus/ Also: 10% flight time bonus is useless. Sure it gives more range but this firstly just means more time for opponent to warp and secondly is way over lock range anyway.
Not sure I agree about getting rid of the flight time bonus, using light missiles fired from assault launchers in a Caracal or Cerberus means you can take down tacklers in a fleet engagement without having to be right on top of them. You can also sit with the BS in a fleet and spam heavy missiles from 150km away and with new skills do good damage with much reduced flight time.
I would however like to see a bonus to other missile damage, maybe 5% to other damage and keep the 10% for Kinetic.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:19:00 -
[43]
Looking good, nice work Tux (and everyone who has contributed to the mega-thread). There are still some niggles, but nothing I can't live with.
So... when do we get to see this on TQ? ;)
(goes off to buy an Arbitrator or three)
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Why do the Amarr not have an EWAR frigate? Or the Gallente for that matter. And where'd the Amarr Scout go?
And i hate to break it to you Tuxford, but 2 medslots is only barely 'tackler'. It would still never be used because it's just outclassed by way too many ships. Needs a third medslot.
Elve, do you really play?
Cruzifier is the amarr EW frig, with 3 mids and bonus to tracking disruptors Maulus is gallente EW frig, with 3 mids and bonus to dampeners
NONE tackling frig has 3 midslots, alone that the amarr one has 2 you should be quite happy, you got a better atron now --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put your panties on your head! |
Ahrman Vanaheim
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:22:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ahrman Vanaheim on 21/10/2005 11:26:25 Nice updates Tux
The extra mid slot in the Cyclone is awesome, and trust me, I am not moaning about the ship overall.. however... (you knew this was coming ).. that shield boost bonus could be better used elsewhere surely.
Why not add a bonus that can be used in all situations, not just rebuilding the shields when in PVE? As I mentioned in the previous posts, the mid slots with tackling/EW gear are inadequate for shield tanking, why not even a 5% per level bonus to speed (the Cyclones only real defence), resistances or reduced sig radius? In PVE of course the mid slots could be quite effective for shields.
Oh, and the argument that the boost bonus is better overall than the resist bonus only holds true if said ship is using a shield tank or booster... realistically in small PVP however, how often will this be of use?
Anyway.. a shame to waste that 7.5% bonus per level as i'm sure it won't be used much.. however a great improvement overall
(edit rax)
IMHO being a previous thorax pilot the new and improved is the better... With dead drones the 200m3 version is little more than a speedboat with heavy armour. So, start putting on those medium blasters people.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:23:00 -
[46]
so rifter is now long range artillery platform?
could be interesting, but it still lacks one slot afaik
Cyclone is finally a good ship, probably worth flying now
Bellicose will remain a joke of a ship, it needs 5midslots to be usefull, also TP need to be better (the specialisation skill is a joke)
Destroyers might get usefull, but their defence is still crap (same for damageoutput)
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Put your panties on your head! |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ahrman Vanaheim Nice updates Tux
The extra mid slot in the Cyclone is awesome, and trust me, I am not moaning about the ship overall.. however... (you knew this was coming ).. that shield boost bonus could be better used elsewhere surely.
Why not add a bonus that can be used in all situations, not just rebuilding the shields when in PVE? As I mentioned in the previous posts, the mid slots with tackling/EW gear are inadequate for shield tanking, why not even a 5% per level bonus to speed (the Cyclones only real defence), resistances or reduced sig radius? In PVE of course the mid slots could be quite effective for shields.
Oh, and the argument that the boost bonus is better overall than the resist bonus only holds true if said ship is using a shield tank or booster... realistically in small PVP however, how often will this be of use?
Anyway.. a shame to waste that 7.5% bonus per level as i'm sure it won't be used much.. however a great improvement overall
Nah now you can finally use:
Sensor Booster II 2x TP2 1x Large Shield Booster II
and just try to snipe the frigates in combat with defence now --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put your panties on your head! |
gfldex
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:31:00 -
[48]
I made some test with the new Incursus and Punisher. Sadly the corp hangars in fight club where not working so I was limited in fitting.
I went to Osmeden where a lvl1 complex is. AFAIK the hardest one because the 2nd stage has a lot ship all sitting close together. The Incrusus with nice named ion blaster (i made one 198 hit :), AB, cap recharger, 1 repair and 1 damage mode performed well. I was unable to tank the whole group but hence to the great base speed my AB got me away from them after I killed 2 rats. I took me a while to take them all out but it was great fun. The falloff bonus helps a lot when you have to stay in orbit but lowers the damage while shooting sitting dugs a bit.
The punisher got 3x med pulse lasers, AB, Cap Recharger II, repair 2, 2x passive hardeners and a cap relay. The tank is still great but capa is a bit tight. I had to switch my AB of to keep guns and repair running all the time. But that don't hurt much. I was able to tank the whole spawn in that complex and killed it in one go.
I went then into a orvolle to try the lvl2 drone complex there. Punisher performed here well too and was able to tank anything it met. Damage output on the Punisher for PvE lasts out but I really fear a plated Rifter. Punisher with it's nearly 50% EM damage gets hurt by plates a lot. But I guess damage is not the Punis purpose.
When singu is working again I will take a loot after the rifter and the fat man too. Hopefuly I can wheedle a corp mate to join me on the test server. I will then take a look after the (baby) logistics. I made a short range test and got 35km with a med repair. You are now able to start healing :D befor your friend pops. I think we will see some of them in small gank groups so EvE will get even more assault friendly.
Btw. nobody is using them in combat at last I never saw one on the battle ground. Is that intentional? When you jump into a system your repair target may be 35km away from you. Getting close in a BS is pointless. So there may be need of thinking about the logistics modules as a whole. (Not in this thread!!! :)
Are the structure repair thingies on sigu active? I would like to test them too.
-- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:32:00 -
[49]
I think those are pretty good changes like they are at the moment.
Only concerns I have are still with the Bellicose, it doesn't look like the EW bonus will make it good, so perhaps an hp/slot/cap/powergrid/dronebay/whatever increase to make it a decent ship on it's own would work.
Another doubt:
Seeing that you are removing the speed bonuses from minmatar frigates, have you thought about removing the bonus from the Stabber too? With the proposed changes a Stabber is faster than most frigates. I know it is meant to be a fast cruiser, and I love my vagabond being so fast, just wondeing if it makes sense for a cruiser to be faster han the majority of frigates.
I like the new low slot of the Rifter, an extra slot is just what it needed, although I still think it would have been nice with a medium one. I'm not sure about the tracking bonus, I liked the falloff one, but haven't had time to test with the new one extensively. I still feel like it needs a bit more cap or a faster recharge or maybe a bit extra hp.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tuxford Hardening bonus results in a 33.3% bonus to shield booster because you need to repair less and the shield boost bonus is 37.5% at level 5.
Are you taking passive shield tanking into account? -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:41:00 -
[51]
Well, I for one will no longer be using my Cyclone on high risk kill missions. I'd now consider it an actual loss to lose one, I think it's going to be a great alternative to flying an expensive BS for 0.0 ratting.
I still don't really like the Rifter changes. OK, so the extra low slot makes up somewhat for the speed it's lost. But the tracking bonus isn't the greatest in the world. Will have to see how much better it makes the guns in practice.
And the Rupture, my absolute favourite ship, just gettign a pure upgrade...many people already consider Rupture/'Rax to be the best T1 cruisers in the game, and with the Rax getting downgraded somewhat and the Rupture getting an upgrade; nice to see Minnie maybe having the best of something! :) _______________________________
cd /usr/everaces/minmatar more|moaning |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Tuxford Hardening bonus results in a 33.3% bonus to shield booster because you need to repair less and the shield boost bonus is 37.5% at level 5.
Are you taking passive shield tanking into account?
Wasn't thinking about passive tanking but that still applies. _______________ |
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:43:00 -
[53]
Hurrya! Exequror wa safed! One thing you should really do tho is to replace Vexors turret damage bonus wiht something like 5% drone thermal damage per level. The turret bnus is nearly useless for it and we can't let Amarr have a better drone ship than the Gallente, who are the drone race. Allso, why do all the cargo/mining frigates get turned into scouts? Aren't they kinda slow and weak for scouting?
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:44:00 -
[54]
Edited by: babylonstew on 21/10/2005 11:46:39 looking good so far
just a couple of small changes id like tho
please change the moas slots 6/5/3 and please drop some weight off the kestrel, yes its faster, but still handles pretty much like a cruiser.
o yeah, and give the caracal/cerburus damage bonuses to all missiles not just kinetic and id be a very happy bunny
EDIT: cant type numbers for toffee
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Forsch
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:44:00 -
[55]
Amarr ships: Everything looks quite good. I'm looking forward to the changes, especially the new Arbitrator. What about the Omen tho? Is there still room for a change? Did you like any of the ideas in the last thread?
Condor: Does the reduced mass do anything to the interceptors? Or at least the Raptor (which really needs lower mass)?
The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:45:00 -
[56]
Oh, missed some.
The executioner changes look great; it's looking good, and isnt the fastest ship anymore, which leads me on to...
Slasher at 410 m/s! Even if it's slot layout is poor, as Tux said it's a cheapo ship and isn't meant to be awesome. I'll fly a 410m/s frig anyday!
Obviously players are never happy though....when are our BS's being rethought? That's the stuff that *really* matters to us, all this cruiser etc upgrades is just gravy. _______________________________
cd /usr/everaces/minmatar more|moaning |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:45:00 -
[57]
Originally by: babylonstew looking good so far
just a couple of small changes id like tho
please change the moas slots 67/5/3 and please drop some weight off the kestrel, yes its faster, but still handles pretty much like a cruiser.
o yeah, and give the caracal/cerburus damage bonuses to all missiles not just kinetic and id be a very happy bunny
Sorry, I think 67 high slots may be broken. It also might need more CPU/Power to fit.
:P _______________________________
cd /usr/everaces/minmatar more|moaning |
Ethidium Bromide
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tuxford Cruisers
Mining/Logistic Kind of a combined class of logistic and industrial ships. In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range.
Augoror
- 10% bonus to capacitor need of Energy Transfer Arrays
- 10% armor per level
Exequror
- 10% bonus to capacitor need of Remote Armor Repair Systems
- 10% bonus to cargo capacity per level
is that a mixup? energy transfer for amarr? we got the biggest caps allready anyway...
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Testy Mctest when are our BS's being rethought? That's the stuff that *really* matters to us, all this cruiser etc upgrades is just gravy.
It matters to us dudes who dont fly BS's :) -
Just a simple warrior.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:51:00 -
[60]
Point taken.
When are our BS's being rethought? That's the stuff that *really* matters to a lot of us, all this cruiser etc upgrades is just gravy for many people.
Better? :P
But seriously, why, in a near-total tech 1 overhaul, were Battleships not included? They're T1 ships too, afterall. Won't somebody think of the battleships? _______________________________
cd /usr/everaces/minmatar more|moaning |
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