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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
D'hara
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Posted - 2005.11.21 09:19:00 -
[751]
Will the Vigilant get a powergrid boost? Or any other boost's for that matter? Or shall i just sell my vigilant now and go fetch a thorax that's cheaper and better?
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Hobblin I
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Posted - 2005.11.21 10:49:00 -
[752]
The rifter, vigil, incursus, kestrel and to a small extent the griffin and probe were the only useful frigates.
These changes still dont make the punisher any more lucrative... Not tried the others so still can't say.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.21 13:20:00 -
[753]
Thats its because its got 2 mids & is slow. If you want to make it useful, give it 3, and you get a copy of a tristan. or make it fast, and you get a bad rifter.
tbh, id rather keep it as it is. its a great npcing ship and the newbs love it. gotta give em something...
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2005.11.21 14:11:00 -
[754]
Me (and I think nearly all Megathron-Pilots out there) want to have +100 CPU more
ahh.........I forgott........and still a Bonus for the MWD 
oh......and maybe EMP-Ammo 
I can hear Raven-Pilots crying
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.11.21 14:53:00 -
[755]
 Originally by: D'hara
Will the Vigilant get a powergrid boost? Or any other boost's for that matter? Or shall i just sell my vigilant now and go fetch a thorax that's cheaper and better?
Powergrid increased from 700 to 820.
CPU untouched.
Boni untouched.
Slot layout untouched.
Harpoints: Changed from 5 turrets to 5 turrets and 1 launcher. (High slots are still only 5)
Other stats appear unchanged. It's a Thorax with +50 base CPU, an extra launcher hardpoint, -10% (instead of -5%) capacitor nerf from MWD, and a tracking bonus. Also, it looks really cool. And it's lighter than the Thorax. And has more hit points. I'd say it's good even after patch ;)
This is from Jide's latest sisi extract.
So. When are these forums going live in game? |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.11.21 15:12:00 -
[756]
MIXED WEAPON SHIPS NEED LOVE TOO
Tux - It's starting to get very close to RMR and I am truly afraid. I have seen good ships that are heavily used get even better (Rifter, Rax, Ruppie) while the number 1 reason that certain ships across the board don't get used has not to my knowledge been addressed.
Mixed weapon systems on ships that only get a damage or rof bonus (or an optimal) to half it's weaponry suck without exception.
This applies to T1 and also T2 ships. It's bad enough that damage mods won't apply to both weapon systems. Fact is, no matter what bonuses you give a ship if they only apply to half the weapons that ship will not be used. It is the number one factor on why ships are not used in PvP, followed by number of midslots. Mixed weapon ships in general end up doing sub-par damage while not being any more flexible/tankable or have any offsetting factor that is justifiable enough to fly the mixed weapon ship over it's tiered counterparts.
Typhoon
Celestis (before the EW change, who flew it?)
Tristan
Inquisitor
Moa
Bellicose
Cyclone, etc.
The Tier 2 ships with mixed design are more plentiful, and thus there are more that are underused and significantly cheaper than thier monotype superlative brethren.
Sacriledge
Eagle
Ares
Hawk
Vengeance
Maladiction
Raptor
Munin
These ships suck mainly because thier damage output is so much lower and that they really lack any compensating bonus. Even ships that get bonuses to 3/4's of their weapon systems rarely mount anything of substance in thier last slots because unbonused weapons are so crappy. As much as it pains me to say it, the Tempest is going to start suffering a bit in RMR because with alpha-strike being minimized it needs a bit more DPS to be competative but the 2 unbonused missile bays are just not quite enough.
Ah, FFS I just suggested bonusing the Tempest. Hope Nafri doesn't see that.
The Khanid line of Amarrian ships are a classic example. With bonuses to only half the weapon systems few people fly them in comparison to thier competitors. It's easier to train and fly a ship that is high damage, easy to boost all your weapons with damage mods, and still retain 90% of the flexibility that the Khanid midslots allow. Few players other than roleplayers will fly subpar ships.
The new T2 Destroyers of RMR seem to be repeating this mistake. I see 2 ships with split weapon systems. Based on past experience, they just won't be used. This ends up limiting the variety in space as unless ships have an overwhelmingly good bonus (Ew scorp or Ew Celestis) no one will fly them.
Suggested Fix
Boost mixed weapon ships so that all weapon systems get a bonus. On most ships you can just carry a bonus across. ROF/Damage bonus on turrets can normally be carried across to the launchers. Some, like the Typhoon, would need a ROF or damage bonus applied to the launchers since the optimal on the turrets is useless for launchers. Some ships like the Sacriledge wouldn't be balanced with a ROF to the Turrets, but could probably use a damage bonus.
In the end, the bonus to the off-weapon system in mixed ships could be balanced fairly quickly using spreadsheets and throwing some in the hanger on test. And it would provide more variety and usefull ships for PvP which is desperately needed. New ships are good, but not using 1/2 the ships in game is worse.
And making useless ships have a place is what MK2 is all about.
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.21 16:22:00 -
[757]
New BC Cap in latest SISI client version
Prophecy 1800/600 -> 2250/600
Ferox 1600/533.3* -> 2000/533.3*
Cyclone 1400/466.6* -> 1750/466.6*
Brutix 1500/500 -> 1875/500
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.11.21 16:51:00 -
[758]
Edited by: Nafri on 21/11/2005 16:52:20
of course I saw that Nyxus 
anyway, mixed weapons was cool till thy implented the missle change, no damage against smaller targets + 9mio new SP to train truely sucked for them
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Corvus Anderran
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Posted - 2005.11.21 16:56:00 -
[759]
Just a small point Nyxus - the Malediction gets bonuses to both small lasers and missiles. It comes at the cost of a tracking speed bonus and it's only 5% to EM missiles, so maybe a tweak like the Kestrel and Inquisitor are getting would be nice (10% to EM and 5% to others), but otherwise it doesn't seem too bad. Though personally I never fly them and just stick to Crusader anyway.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.11.21 17:53:00 -
[760]
Mixed weapon ships stack damage mods better. 1 Gyro + 1 ballictic control module is better than 2 gyros.
Destroyers are used to ensure the enemy enters your space with at least a T2 frigate. And of course isk for isk, a destroyer fleet will pwn a T2 fleet easily.
I am a believer in diversity. I surely hope ships dont become so similar that we loose game flavor.
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.11.21 19:02:00 -
[761]
Originally by: keepiru
Incursus
The Incursus is commonly found spearheading Gallentean military operations. Its speed and surprising strength make it excellent for skirmishing duties. Incursus-class ships move
together in groups and can quickly and effectively gang upon ships many times their size and overwhelm them. In recent years the Incursus has increasingly found its way into
the hands of pirates, who love its aggressive appearance.
Special Ability: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff and Small Hybrid Turret damage per skill level. <- that's wrong, right?
disposable ranis 4tw \o/ would be awsome as hell, but I tihnk i'm filing this under the to good to be true catagory
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Kauschovar
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Posted - 2005.11.22 00:43:00 -
[762]
Edited by: Kauschovar on 22/11/2005 00:43:12
Tuxford, could you please update the original post with the changes to faction frigates and cruisers. Most if not all of these suck big time right now, and I hear some welcome changes have already been implemented on the Singularity server.
Thanks!
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2005.11.22 08:53:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Kauschovar
Edited by: Kauschovar on 22/11/2005 00:43:12
Tuxford, could you please update the original post with the changes to faction frigates and cruisers. Most if not all of these suck big time right now, and I hear some welcome changes have already been implemented on the Singularity server.
Thanks!
Sure I guess I can find the time to do that.
_______________ |
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.22 08:57:00 -
[764]
Awesome. \o/
Thnx tux ^^
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:12:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Mixed weapon ships stack damage mods better. 1 Gyro + 1 ballictic control module is better than 2 gyros.
Not really. They get less stacking penalty per mod, yes, but they also have less ship bonuses per turret/mod. And need two damage mods to get to the same level as homogenous weapon system ships with one mod.
So.
Pure ship: 2 mods to get to damage level A
Hybrid ship: 4 mods to get to damage level A
(In this case, the meaning of Hybrid, NOT the turret type.)
So. When are these forums going live in game? |
GC13
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Posted - 2005.11.22 14:58:00 -
[766]
Yeah. Using hypothetical ships "Pure Missile" and "Hybrid Turret/Missile" (*cough* Kestrel/Merlin *cough*), the missile-only ship can get +9% to all of its damage with two slots, while the hybrid ship can either get +5% to all of its damage, or +9% to half of it. Either way you cut it, it's getting shafted. I enjoy it being versatile, but it needs some bonus to its second weapon type.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.11.22 19:43:00 -
[767]
Quote:
I enjoy it being versatile, but it needs some bonus to its second weapon type.
And therein lies the underlying issue of the "versatile" ships like the Typhoon, the Vengeance and the Sacriledge. It's just a bit more versatile (normally just a slot or 2 max) but with only 50% of the damage output.
Why not fly another ship that is ~almost~ as versatile with 50% more damage output? The Tempest over the Typhoon. The Harpy over the Vengeance. The Zealot over the Sacriledge. A Rifter over the Tristan.
And that's exactly what we do. And thus the mixed weapon ships sit in a hanger somewhere.
Now, I am in no way suggesting that they should have the same DPS. I am merely suggesting that by applying a weapon bonus to both weapon types on a "mixed" ship that you close the gap a bit. Bring them closer in dps and fitting overall to make them more appealing than they are now.
I would just like it when someone asks in gang "Should I bring a Typhoon or a Tempest?" to have to really think about what would be more useful, instead of just laughing at them and replying "Tempest of course. lololol"
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
Wilfuc Fatburdz
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Posted - 2005.11.23 13:08:00 -
[768]
BELLICOSE
Guess there have been so few posts about the poor ol' girl because she has been useless for so long that everyone now just accepts Belli=crap as a matter of fact. IMO was one ship that most typified the need for the Mk2 project, but signally is totally let down by it.
Guess Tux didn't know where to start, with her being so embarrassingly broken in every department?
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Orrin Danestarr
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Posted - 2005.11.23 15:53:00 -
[769]
BELLICOSE -
Can we please get a verification as to the bonus here? The bonus it currently carries is a firing rate bonus and a Range bonus and not a velocity bonus. Plus this ship needs some love. I liked htat it got looked at and agree with the change in slots but this ship could use some more. Id settle for a powergrid upgrade and it being a pure artillery peice.... and no missiles as long as it had the grid to support it. But thats only the way i see it.
"Imagination is the key that unlocks the door." - ME |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.11.23 20:58:00 -
[770]
With the increase to defense and decrease to dps in RMR is there any thought being given to weather ammo based ships will get a cargo bay increase or perhaps an outright decrease in ammo volume?
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.24 13:44:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Summersnow
With the increase to defense and decrease to dps in RMR is there any thought being given to weather ammo based ships will get a cargo bay increase or perhaps an outright decrease in ammo volume?
Reduced ammo volume would be the best I guess, as else those ships could carry more loot than now. Some ships could use an increased cargo bay as well though  . But I definitely agree with the idea.
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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NoLock LetsNegociate
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Posted - 2005.11.25 08:53:00 -
[772]
Hi,
There is now a problem on Bellicose description as it no longer have firing Range Bonus :
Quote:
Being a highly versatile class of Minmatar ships, the Bellicose
has been used as a combat juggernaut as well as a support
ship for wings of frigates. While not quite in the league of
newer navy cruisers, the Bellicose is still a very solid ship for
most purposes, especially in terms of long range combat.
Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Rate of
Fire and 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per skill
level.
Just is case of, you forgot it.
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Traxman
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Posted - 2005.11.25 09:06:00 -
[773]
First off all sorry not to read all thru ALL 29 pages
to see if i could find anything about the Thorax/Deimos.
I was on the devserver and saw the changes to the Thorax
but im very worried why the Deimos is the hac with even
less Powergrid than a Eagle! Its even 10m/s slower than
a Thorax now. With its 860 PG as base and even with 2 hours
of diffrent fittings i really think that the Deimos could
use atleast 890/900 PG as base. The CPU seems not a problem
with the setups i have tried, its just the PG That seems
very low/tight.
Any Comments on this, or the Deimos will be changed
that i have missied among the 29 pages ?
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hezitationkillz
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Posted - 2005.11.25 10:55:00 -
[774]
I have to say that i think the destroyers need either more health or more PG because with destroyers in PvP its either speed or damage or tank (if you can call it that) there is nothing in between really and this makes most PvPers not use destroyers when they could be really decent ships, also does anyone know when the Tech2 versions are coming out?
Thrasher 4tw? well maybe when it gets a boost or artilleries do...
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.11.25 11:34:00 -
[775]
Edited by: d''hofren on 25/11/2005 11:37:02
I am still not convinced that the Target Painter bonus fits the Bellicose.
Bellicose lock range = 42Km
With long range targeting V = 42x1.25 = 52.5km
Target painter optimal = 30km
Target painter falloff = 60km
lets take it our Belli is painting for the standard 1400 fitted pest.
Tempest lock range = 62.5km
With long range targeting V = 62.5x1.25 = 78.125Km
Thus our Bellicose can only use 50% of the painters falloff and can only provide a painted target for up to 52km out. Which just happens to be almost the optimum of a 1400 arty. (1400mm optimal = 40km + sharpshooter IV = 40*1.25 = 50km). I can't really see a way to remedy this apart from using reduced range ammo like Fusion or EMP.
Tux - Can we get a target range boost on the belli?
(Of course we could fit a sensor booster or two. However how many of the other ewar cruisers have to give ewar slots for a support mod to make the ewar mods usable?)
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.11.25 23:14:00 -
[776]
*snip*
why does incursus have to suck so bad? It has smallest pg, less cpu and less hp than rifter and is also slower... not to mention 20% bigger sig?
Punisher will probably be good match for AFs, because punisher vs vengeance will be in favour of punisher. Better slot layout, better overall resists, etc.
Originally by: WildCard
"NOW Flyzone"
before
after
Be back in a year or so |
Abbey Smallwood
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Posted - 2005.11.26 18:30:00 -
[777]
Please change one the Retribution's high slot to a mid slot please. It's the only t2 frig with only one, which makes it useless for pvp, and not very good for pve, as you can't fit a webifier as well as propulsion. Ammar are missing out massively on friggy pvp.
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Lord Whitedragon
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Posted - 2005.11.27 20:57:00 -
[778]
made some comparisons with what has been written in this trhread by DEV team, alredy found One wrong on the thorax cruiser. in the thread the say dronebay halfed (100m3), in item DB it says 50m3, which is it!?
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.11.27 21:11:00 -
[779]
The Thorax had its 200 m3 Dronebay cut in half, which makes it 100m3. [b]All Ships[/i] then got their Drone Bay halved again, including the Thorax, giving it 50m3.
Read Stickies ftw.
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LOPEZ
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Posted - 2005.11.29 02:44:00 -
[780]
All i have to say is that im finaly gona give up on m caldari ships except the crow..the eagle is probably the only ship that can shield tank and have enough med slots to be usefull. the cerberus.. well to be able to tank like my ishtar i have to prety much fill my med slots with all tanking items: while my ishtar only need 3 low slots max to get uber tank and still have low and med slots to play with.. o well.. i was gona train up for munin but its just as bad as the eagle... or worse.. vagabond? I still have mix feeling about the ishtar and its drone nurf, but if anything after the patch the gellente and amar hacs are gona be realy hard core tankers :)))) /me sighs: GIVE US SHILED ADAPTIVE NANOS!! or else the shield resistance conpensation is prety useless...
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