The entire nature of the game is competitive play, making it consensual will destroy the economy, the politics, everything about this game. We're all part of a large system, we cannot remove ourselves from one or two aspects of it we do not like. We can remove ourselves from it entirely (biomass and unsub) but thats it. Hope this helps.

Why shouldn't ganks be avoidable?
Making it unavoidable is just dumbing the game down in the opposite direction - it'll be even easier for gankers than it is now, so many of them will just get bored and quit.

So you basically went on a rant about the UI aspects, despite this being completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The discussion had nothing to do with whether or not local was a good means of providing that intel, it was simply about whether the intel should be there in the first place.

1-4 is about that aspect, your UI concerns. Well, great, whatever.
5: No, you're wrong. Who is in system is more immediately important than what is in system, and we already have a few tools available to us that tell us what is in system and where it is.
6: Every system pretty much IS this same. Your issue here isn't with local.
7: This one doesn't even make sense, but it seems to be the catch-all argument people seem to use against mechanics they
don't like nowadays.

(1), (3), (4) yes these are UI issues. What of that? Should the way we're presented with information be better? Are you saying local isn't horribly presented intel? I say it's merely what we're used to and nothing more than that.

(5) No, I'm right. "Who" is the crutch we're used to having, but we should be paying attention to the what, the where, the how fast, the how many, and so on. The Intel tool should be giving us data about what's out there so that we can work out what's going on, not just automagically work everything out for us.

(6) You're demonstrably wrong in fact; some systems are hundreds of AUs wide, some are only 4-5; some have 16 or 17 planets, some have just a couple; some have stations or even multiple stations, others have none. Moons, belts, gates... these all vary. At the moment, none of these things really matter because none of them affect the way we get information.

(7) I can instantly see exactly who's in a system; we are all literally in the same (chat) room.

there's no problem with local, the problem is with peoples gameplay expectations. they log in, see a neutral and think "oh well, no eve today." do that 3 days in a row, and they start making threads about how cloaks are OP, and whatnot...

one could argue that the source of the problem is the gameplay expectation generated by NBSI diplomacy... compare it to NRDS, the CVA space wizards expect to have their day ruined by a neutral in local, and they plan accordingly. any other SOV bear? they just had their day ruined.

forget about running an anom with some other players in a bunch of t1 bcs. they cant conceive the idea of not using their pimpship or carrier to rat. and group play? forget it. eve is a single player game, unless there's a CTA.

CCP can't force all alliances to adopt NRDS and the shift in gameplay expectations that comes with it, but they can remove local on null, or have it at least list only friendlies, or maybe make using a cloak unlist the pilot from local... that way they can have the null bears understand that, no, you cant have safe space. no, you are not supposed to run anoms solo. and yes, it is ok to have a cyno light up and have to man it up or scram like rats. that's what they sign up for when they subscribed to eve.

maybe if we start that way we can finally properly balance the rewards of null, nerf the **** outta high, or better yet, get rid of CONCORD once and for all.

one can only dream.

Did you notice you stated on fact in a post that has a solution for it?

"CCP can't force all alliances to adopt NRDS and the shift in gameplay expectations that comes with it, but they can remove local on null, or have it at least list only friendlies...."


Removing local IS the end of NBSI. There would not be any "instantly" that's for sure.

Null Bears = Hardcore seclusionists

Afraid because if you turn Local off others could spy on them and see they do the same boring stuff HS does.
Must always hide in station so mythos of NS doesn't die.

NRDS would make for a better game for all. We surely can't have that.

Have full Local in 1.0-0.5 , 3 minute refresh rate in 0.4-0.1 and no local in 0.0 and WH

Leave local alone - I'm purely solo Covert and I get plenty of kills in lo-sec

No1 reason - PATIENCE ( and damm good looks)

If people dock, you wait, eventually they have to come out to continue earning ISK .

Busy local is easy - you hide in the crowd - quiet systems are harder.

No local might get me more kills and help me - but NO - it's not broken - some pilots can't think around the problem enough.

Leave it alone.

P.S AFK cloaking really pisses me off - why should my tactics get nerfed because the other pilot in the system is actually out walking his dog, eating popcorn in the cinema or in bed with his partner.....you should be in the game or out of it.

Can't understand that 'norm' in the game.

Bolded proves you've no idea of how perfect local is for intel in nullsec. Go into your local restaurant naked with a gun. Lets see how long it is until someone notices you and calls the cops while running & screaming. Now, try hiding in a sea of blue in null. Same effect.

Repeat after me:

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others, Then you're absolutely...right!

BTW, if you're letting an AFK cloaker ruin your game play, I suggest you come back to Eve when your balls drop.

yeah, one neut in local and everyone goes crazy instead plan something to outsmart him (if he is really there to get some juicy kill)

afk cloaking can be fixed 3 ways only.

1. it you are not actively inputting into the eve client. it logs you off in 45-1 hr time
this also reduces bandwidth use across the whole game on people who are doing nothing.
of coruse this wont help spam bots or any other program the would manipulate the program by making false entries.
so futher work needs to be done there.

2. make a skill and module that would allow you to dectect cloaking disruption, within x ammount of space per skill level.
aswell a module can be introduced to further narrow this down. setting up a grid with your m8's will actually making tracking a cloaker possible and might force him to move on.

3. the best one yet. remove all alts from game.

afk cloaking can be fixed 3 ways only.

1. it you are not actively inputting into the eve client. it logs you off in 45-1 hr time
this also reduces bandwidth use across the whole game on people who are doing nothing.
of coruse this wont help spam bots or any other program the would manipulate the program by making false entries.
so futher work needs to be done there.

2. make a skill and module that would allow you to dectect cloaking disruption, within x ammount of space per skill level.
aswell a module can be introduced to further narrow this down. setting up a grid with your m8's will actually making tracking a cloaker possible and might force him to move on.

3. the best one yet. remove all alts from game.

You're not adding anything new to the discussion. You're just repeating the same stupid mantra that's been shot down several times.

I don't know how anyone can say with certainty the economy will collapse of local is removed.
The most baseless assumption about EVE right after the claim that "AFK" cloakers need to be dealt with.

? What are you rambling on about? Must nearly be medication time - ask Nurse to wipe your chin while she's at it too.

afk cloaking can be fixed 3 ways only.

1. it you are not actively inputting into the eve client. it logs you off in 45-1 hr time
this also reduces bandwidth use across the whole game on people who are doing nothing.
of coruse this wont help spam bots or any other program the would manipulate the program by making false entries.
so futher work needs to be done there.

2. make a skill and module that would allow you to dectect cloaking disruption, within x ammount of space per skill level.
aswell a module can be introduced to further narrow this down. setting up a grid with your m8's will actually making tracking a cloaker possible and might force him to move on.

3. the best one yet. remove all alts from game.

Yeah except with one dude with a cloak it is not a matter of outsmarting him, it is a matter of being around on the rare chance he makes a tactical or navigation error. Me and about 6 of my alliance mates spent a good portion of last saturday hunting down one dude in a stealth bomber who was anomaly hopping but would tuck tail if so much as a drone was afoot. While this might seem like he was a "non-threat" he could hit or miss, we couldnt miss once. He had all the power. Were we to treat him as a non-threat he could quickly inflict massive ISK damage.

So I ask you this. Do you think it is fair that one guy can spend his $15/month to sequester the enjoyment of 7 people for a total $105, while we have no technical way to hunt, track, or eliminate him. Cloaking needs a soft counter. Because right now it causes too much disruption for too little investment.

So I ask you this. Do you think it is fair that one guy can spend his $15/month to sequester the enjoyment of 7 people for a total $105, while we have no technical way to hunt, track, or eliminate him. Cloaking needs a soft counter. Because right now it causes too much disruption for too little investment.

Yeah except with one dude with a cloak it is not a matter of outsmarting him, it is a matter of being around on the rare chance he makes a tactical or navigation error. Me and about 6 of my alliance mates spent a good portion of last saturday hunting down one dude in a stealth bomber who was anomaly hopping but would tuck tail if so much as a drone was afoot. While this might seem like he was a "non-threat" he could hit or miss, we couldnt miss once. He had all the power. Were we to treat him as a non-threat he could quickly inflict massive ISK damage.

So I ask you this. Do you think it is fair that one guy can spend his $15/month to sequester the enjoyment of 7 people for a total $105, while we have no technical way to hunt, track, or eliminate him. Cloaking needs a soft counter. Because right now it causes too much disruption for too little investment.

Don't really see how this guy was an AFK cloaker. Just a cloaker. And if he uncloaks in a bomber he can be pointed and killed in short order. Like you, I would have spent my time trying to kill him. With friends, would have tried to set up some bait, maybe my own cloaky ships to get him. Could have spent all my day's game time doing that and felt like I had fun whether we killed him or not.

If 7 of you can't take on one cloaky frigate, I'm not entirely sure the fault is his.