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'Local' is a problem? Why is that? (further study on AFK cloaking subject)

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Ayuren Aakiwa An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE 82	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:24:00 - [151] - Quote Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. pew pew 24/7
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14986	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:31:00 - [152] - Quote Ayuren Aakiwa wrote: Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. That's because it's a solution to a terrible GÇ£problemGÇ¥ GÇö not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined. The removal of local is the perfect GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Sarcasim The Free Haven Group The Union of Free Worlds 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:32:00 - [153] - Quote Classic thread derailing....well done
Sarcasim The Free Haven Group The Union of Free Worlds 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:52:00 - [154] - Quote Tippia wrote: Ayuren Aakiwa wrote: Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. That's because it's a solution to a terrible GÇ£problemGÇ¥ GÇö not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined. The removal of local is the perfect GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/ Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror. Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2206	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:02:00 - [155] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Tippia wrote: Ayuren Aakiwa wrote: Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. That's because it's a solution to a terrible GÇ£problemGÇ¥ GÇö not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined. The removal of local is the perfect GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/ Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror. Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue. And why is afk cloaking an "issue". Again, I must be doing it wrong, living in null sec, flying blingy ships and not falling over dead when a frig when a cloak gets within 9 parsec of me. The issue isn't cloaking or local. It/s the players and their bad choices , laziness, lack of creativity, resolve and adventure. Sometimes people are so dumb as to sign rental agreements that don't allow them ratting/mining rights outside of that one system, so one "afk cloaker" can **** them down. Sometimes people are too lazy to come up with counters to what an "afk cloaker" can do despite this game having hundreds of ships, weapons and mods that can be used to mitigate or defeat the risk involved. It took me like 30 seconds to dream up my warp core stabbed FoF missile ratting raven 3 years ago. Sometimes people are too dumb to do their null sec pve activities in groups. I heard one guy claim that the rest of his corp was asleep when he was online so he had no back up. GEE GOLLY it couldn't be his incorrect choice in corps to join could it? NO its afk cloakers and local. I mean seriously, look at the peopel whining. Rather than use what they got to deal with the problem, they just dock up and run to the forums asking for ccp to help them. How bloody weak is that?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14992	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:11:00 - [156] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Luck? How about truth? Ok. Fine. The truth is that AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the remove-local solution isn't needed either. Everyone (still) wins! \o/ AFK cloakers are not a problem by virtue of being both AFK and cloaked. One means they can't do anything and the other means they can't do anything. Nothing squared = nothing. All the problems people claim to have with AFK cloakers have nothing to do with either AFK:ness or cloaking. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10211	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:14:00 - [157] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Tippia wrote: Incorrect. Your main problhttps://forums.eveonline.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.pngem is that you automatically equate GÇ£asking hard questionsGÇ¥ and GÇ£questioning unproven assumptions and claimsGÇ¥ to trolling. In reality, it's the opposite: if you can't stand hard question and if you can't prove your assumptions or claims, you are the troll. That's all I'm doing: exposing the trolls. They really don't like that and have a tendency to call people trolls for doing soGÇª but, of course, as always, without any kind of proof to back that claim up. I just wanted to highlight that point. I sometimes post out of irritation, irritated by the fact that someone posts a stupid/unfounded/unprovable thing, gets called on it, and all of a sudden the person pointing out the flaw is the bad guy. Why not just THINK before posting and develop good reasoning skills? Because that's too damn hard, that's why lol. Just easier to label the half of the universe that doesn't agree with you as "troll" (trollverse?) and be done with it. And that is both weak and lazy.... ..in the same way that running to a forum and asking CCP to fix something that doesn't need fixing and is easily aviodable is weak and lazy. I must simply be doing it wrong, flying Machariels and Rattlesnakes around null sec (usually solo) making isk by the crapload while ignoring (or rarely, killing) cloakers that try to gank me or camp my system. I should have just docked up and spent that time badgering CCP ti fix the game for me.... You should be on the CSM. 1 Kings 12:11
Ramona McCandless Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard 416	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:17:00 - [158] - Quote Malcanis wrote: You should be on the CSM. Hear hear She'd get my vote Hell if she and Tippia both ran, I'd be torn tbh Tell The Others
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10212	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:19:00 - [159] - Quote I wish I was smart enough to persuade Tippia that it would be in her rational interest to run for CSM Oh well, that still leaves blackmail, bribery and threats! 1 Kings 12:11
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1403	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:23:00 - [160] - Quote Shizuken wrote: Malcolm Shinhwa wrote: Shizuken wrote: Yeah except with one dude with a cloak it is not a matter of outsmarting him, it is a matter of being around on the rare chance he makes a tactical or navigation error. Me and about 6 of my alliance mates spent a good portion of last saturday hunting down one dude in a stealth bomber who was anomaly hopping but would tuck tail if so much as a drone was afoot. While this might seem like he was a "non-threat" he could hit or miss, we couldnt miss once. He had all the power. Were we to treat him as a non-threat he could quickly inflict massive ISK damage. So I ask you this. Do you think it is fair that one guy can spend his $15/month to sequester the enjoyment of 7 people for a total $105, while we have no technical way to hunt, track, or eliminate him. Cloaking needs a soft counter. Because right now it causes too much disruption for too little investment. Don't really see how this guy was an AFK cloaker. Just a cloaker. And if he uncloaks in a bomber he can be pointed and killed in short order. Like you, I would have spent my time trying to kill him. With friends, would have tried to set up some bait, maybe my own cloaky ships to get him. Could have spent all my day's game time doing that and felt like I had fun whether we killed him or not. If 7 of you can't take on one cloaky frigate, I'm not entirely sure the fault is his. It is not a matter of being able to inflict enough damage, it is getting the opportunity to do so. You have to wait for him to **** up before you can attack. He was not an afk cloaker, but therein lies the problem. Whether a cloaker is AFK or not, as a player you must treat them equally. The initiative favors the cloaker. He could log on, go to sunday school, watch the bears game, and eat a sandwich. All the while, as defending players we have to be on the lookout and searching. At any time the dude could come back to his computer and start to actually play. Here is the problem with local chat. When people complain about it, they do so not because they are mad that they can see other players in system, it is that other players can see them, automatically, with no effort expended. In my example above, when the afk cloaker comes back to play he can instantly see who is in the system. With no local chat, the moment he gets back to his computer he would then have to spend time and effort to actually locate targets, just as anyone hunting him would. It puts the cloaker and the defender on an even footing. Rather than giving the cloaker a blanket opportunity to harass people just by being logged in. A cloaker (discussing the afk aspect of it is dishonest so lets not) does not gain some "blanket opportunity to harass". There is nothing that forces you to do anything in response to them other than yourself. If you want to dock up and cry, fine. If you want to hunt for hours on end fruitlessly, fine. If you want to ignore it and get on with your lives, fine. These are YOUR choices, not his. He cannot force you to the one he wants you to. If you think what you're doing is interfering with your own goals too much, or that you're giving him what he wants then - gasp - STOP doing what he wants. The problem with cloaking is that some people think it somehow means they HAVE to do X in response to it. You don't. You have a lot of choice in the matter. If you don't like the choice you picked, pick another one. hope this helps m8 o7
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1200	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:27:00 - [161] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sometimes people are too dumb to do their null sec pve activities in groups. I heard one guy claim that the rest of his corp was asleep when he was online so he had no back up. GEE GOLLY it couldn't be his incorrect choice in corps to join could it? NO its afk cloakers and local. I mean seriously, look at the peopel whining. Rather than use what they got to deal with the problem, they just dock up and run to the forums asking for ccp to help them. How bloody weak is that? Exactly. if people are going to null to solo pve and don't have adequate support to allow them to do so, it's not the result of AFK being over powered. That is just silliness. It's fear that is over powering those players....doubt CCP can do anything about that. If someone comes into our static, probes everything out and has bm's for every anom/data/relic/gas site, we've no way to know that. If he's going to stay in there for hours waiting for us to farm, we have no way of knowing that either. He might call in friends. We'll know that because we're covering our exits with scouts. You guys in null don't even need to do that. Just watch local. Ok, so you might get hotdropped. I'm pretty sure you'll see that when it happens right in front of you even if it's covert. At that point you GTFO. Always be ready to GTFO. Granted you might lose a ship that's pointed but, then that's the name of the game. It's not like a fleet is going to appear on top of you without any kind of warning. When you're in a data relic gas site try hitting dscan occasionally if you already know someone is in system that isn't blue. If you see probes, might be a good idea to GTFO here too. I don't know what to tell you guys in nullsec. Deal with it? Move back to hisec if you want that kind of womb like feeling? HTFU!...for the children!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14993	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:31:00 - [162] - Quote Malcanis wrote: I wish I was smart enough to persuade Tippia that it would be in her rational interest to run for CSM Oh well, that still leaves blackmail, bribery and threats! Rationally, the vizier's seat has much better stuffing and far fewer stabbing-holes in the backrest than the throne. GÇªalso, if there's anything I've learned from my dayjob, it is that politics and bureaucracy is a great spectator sport, but not something I wish to engage in personally. Except maybe using cardboard tokens and small wooden houses. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1404	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:37:00 - [163] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Tippia wrote: Ayuren Aakiwa wrote: Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. That's because it's a solution to a terrible GÇ£problemGÇ¥ GÇö not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined. The removal of local is the perfect GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/ Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror. Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue. The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities. "AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14994	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:46:00 - [164] - Quote TheGunslinger42 wrote: The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities. "AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown. I think I might have to turn that into copypasta for future threads. Very neatly described. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2208	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:54:00 - [165] - Quote Tippia wrote: TheGunslinger42 wrote: The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities. "AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown. I think I might have to turn that into copypasta for future threads. Very neatly described. I'll say, Gunslinger for president. The real problem may not be the game mechanics (which are not perfect and can always be improved, i'm all for good, rational reasonable progress), but the fact that some null sec PVE players are misplaced and would be happier in high sec where threats are easier to quantify and mitigate. The vast majority of "nullbears" like me deal with the issue without complaining about it on the forums or asking for sweeping change and i want ccp to know that. I still find it horribly disconcerting that some video game players (of a hard core game) can't figure out for themselves how to use thousands of tools and tactics to defeat a perceived threat when people like me deal with it every single day of the week.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 0	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:00:00 - [166] - Quote Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin' And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2209	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:06:00 - [167] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin' And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck?
Sarcasim The Free Haven Group The Union of Free Worlds 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:07:00 - [168] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sarcasim wrote: Tippia wrote: Ayuren Aakiwa wrote: Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people. That's because it's a solution to a terrible GÇ£problemGÇ¥ GÇö not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined. The removal of local is the perfect GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/ Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror. Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue. Sometimes people are too dumb to do their null sec pve activities in groups. I heard one guy claim that the rest of his corp was asleep when he was online so he had no back up. GEE GOLLY it couldn't be his incorrect choice in corps to join could it? NO its afk cloakers and local. Dumb is arguing on the internet. I am not like you and your friends. I will not be drawn into your game of stupidity so that you can beat me with experience. Many people have pointed out numerous valid points on how AFK cloaking effects others. You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if itGÇÖs the miner or the cloaker. The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did. You and your buddies refuse to see it because you donGÇÖt want to lose this overpowered tool of AFK cloaking gives. ItGÇÖs not weather itGÇÖs a issue but you donGÇÖt want to loose it.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 0	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:10:00 - [169] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin' And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck? AHM Missoura Irish, y'dummy!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14997	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:12:00 - [170] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did. EhGÇª When did GÇ£nothingGÇ¥ become more than GÇ£a lotGÇ¥? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Ramona McCandless Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard 422	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:14:00 - [171] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin' And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck? AHM Missoura Irish, y'dummy! I really have to apologise for my Mother Deep space AFK cloaking does tend to wear a way at a person's manners, y'know? Tell The Others
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2210	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:22:00 - [172] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Dumb is arguing on the internet. I am not like you and your friends. I will not be drawn into your game of stupidity so that you can beat me with experience. Many people have pointed out numerous valid points on how AFK cloaking effects others. You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if itGÇÖs the miner or the cloaker. The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did. You and your buddies refuse to see it because you donGÇÖt want to lose this overpowered tool of AFK cloaking gives. ItGÇÖs not weather itGÇÖs a issue but you donGÇÖt want to loose it. And there it finally is, the standard "im losing the argument, lets challenge their MOTIVES" fall back LOL. I have NEVER once afk cloaked anyone (I don't waste game time), I rarely pvp nowadays and I can count the number of hotdrops I've been on since I started pvping in 2008 on one hand (nothing wrong with it, I just hate sitting on a titan or black ops while their are npcs that need killin). But seriously, don't you understand, by having to fall back on "you just want to keep killing stuff" (when talking to a person who is a NULLBEAR, if we had npc kill stats I'd be at the top of battleclinic lol) you're exposing the weakness of your beliefs? I'm not the hunter, I'm the guy the cloaky is hunting lol. No one is refusing to see something just because we disagree with you, we are telling you the truth. I am doing so from the perspective of a NULL SEC PVE PLAYER. AFK cloak and local are not problems , Sarcaism, people like you who refuse to fight back and use the thousands of tools at your disposal are the problem. I'm sorry you can't see that.
Onomerous Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 130	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:57:00 - [173] - Quote Quote: You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if itGÇÖs the miner or the cloaker. WTF??? AFK cloaking vs. AFK mining? Even remotely related? How much money does an AFK cloaker make because I'm willing to sign up for it!!
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 70	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:04:00 - [174] - Quote This thread makes me want to recruit more afk cloakers to my corp. i see a recruitment drive in my future.
Sarcasim The Free Haven Group The Union of Free Worlds 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:10:00 - [175] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Tippia wrote: Incorrect. Your main problhttps://forums.eveonline.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.pngem is that you automatically equate GÇ£asking hard questionsGÇ¥ and GÇ£questioning unproven assumptions and claimsGÇ¥ to trolling. In reality, it's the opposite: if you can't stand hard question and if you can't prove your assumptions or claims, you are the troll. That's all I'm doing: exposing the trolls. They really don't like that and have a tendency to call people trolls for doing soGÇª but, of course, as always, without any kind of proof to back that claim up. I just wanted to highlight that point. I sometimes post out of irritation, irritated by the fact that someone posts a stupid/unfounded/unprovable thing, gets called on it, and all of a sudden the person pointing out the flaw is the bad guy. Why not just THINK before posting and develop good reasoning skills? Because that's too damn hard, that's why lol. Just easier to label the half of the universe that doesn't agree with you as "troll" (trollverse?) and be done with it. And that is both weak and lazy.... ..in the same way that running to a forum and asking CCP to fix something that doesn't need fixing and is easily aviodable is weak and lazy. I must simply be doing it wrong, flying Machariels and Rattlesnakes around null sec (usually solo) making isk by the crapload while ignoring (or rarely, killing) cloakers that try to gank me or camp my system. I should have just docked up and spent that time badgering CCP ti fix the game for me.... You should be on the CSM. Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event..
Ramona McCandless Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard 425	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:12:00 - [176] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event.. What a well thought out and eloquent reply. Oh wait Mintchip isnt on the CSM And has nothing to do with this Is that really the best youve got? Tell The Others
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15000	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:13:00 - [177] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event.. A what? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Faenir Antollare University of Caille Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:25:00 - [178] - Quote After reading the full thread I would like to say, from a relatively new player`s pov, that the removal of local chat (in null) would drastically dilute my enjoyment. I likes to wander abouts a bits, whilst immersing myself within the game I had the idea to try and visit each and every system I could and I am making progress. Every now and again I enter a system where the locals are seriously hostile, I absolutely adore this..I learn more in trying to avoid a confrontation that I cannot hope to win than I ever would learn whilst fannying about in H-sec, If those adversaries were not present to me in local and then my craft unto them, then all this would be lost, whilst not a pvp orientated Peep the lessons from such interactions should not be cast away lightly. Please do not change anything, just embrace the hostile nature of the environment we populate and get on with it /fly true Les
Sarcasim The Free Haven Group The Union of Free Worlds 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:44:00 - [179] - Quote Onomerous wrote: Quote: You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if itGÇÖs the miner or the cloaker. WTF??? AFK cloaking vs. AFK mining? Even remotely related? How much money does an AFK cloaker make because I'm willing to sign up for it!! As stated in previous post the cloaker gets paid in intel while at the keyboard but gets paid while afk with the ability to effect other players all just from being logged in and not even ingame.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2212	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:44:00 - [180] - Quote Sarcasim wrote: Malcanis wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Tippia wrote: Incorrect. Your main problhttps://forums.eveonline.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.pngem is that you automatically equate GÇ£asking hard questionsGÇ¥ and GÇ£questioning unproven assumptions and claimsGÇ¥ to trolling. In reality, it's the opposite: if you can't stand hard question and if you can't prove your assumptions or claims, you are the troll. That's all I'm doing: exposing the trolls. They really don't like that and have a tendency to call people trolls for doing soGÇª but, of course, as always, without any kind of proof to back that claim up. I just wanted to highlight that point. I sometimes post out of irritation, irritated by the fact that someone posts a stupid/unfounded/unprovable thing, gets called on it, and all of a sudden the person pointing out the flaw is the bad guy. Why not just THINK before posting and develop good reasoning skills? Because that's too damn hard, that's why lol. Just easier to label the half of the universe that doesn't agree with you as "troll" (trollverse?) and be done with it. And that is both weak and lazy.... ..in the same way that running to a forum and asking CCP to fix something that doesn't need fixing and is easily aviodable is weak and lazy. I must simply be doing it wrong, flying Machariels and Rattlesnakes around null sec (usually solo) making isk by the crapload while ignoring (or rarely, killing) cloakers that try to gank me or camp my system. I should have just docked up and spent that time badgering CCP ti fix the game for me.... You should be on the CSM. Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event.. i'm a dude, don't let the white chick avatar fool you. I just picked this avatar as a way of saying "where the white women at?".

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