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Nelson Vandermark
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:20:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal.
But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics.
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SkaffenAmtiskaw
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:24:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership, but than again not everyone cheats in this game.
Is that a spurious BoB-are-devs-and-GMs accusation I see before me?
Proof please. Oh, there isn't any. Boo Hoo. ______
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Hi'Ryan Greetos <sarcasm> Good good
Those stupid carebears deserved this! BoB is almighty and they deserve to be king of EVEs. Heck, let them to decide new patches! BoB Battleship that will be like Jove BS but with more Pwnage. </sarcasm>
.. it didn't take so long for PvP trigger happy people to destroy something truly unique and wonderful on EVE .. but we all know BoB so it souldn't be suprise that much. Hope you ISS can find a new home and forget those killboard w***ees.
New home? ISS operate over several regions. BoB space wasn't their home any more than any other area they operated in.
As for BoB wanting to destroy ISS... you'll find that those destroying that unique and wonderfull entity you speak off are those who use it for spying, logistics and any other reason other than what ISS stands for.
So before you post complete crap and make yourself look like a toad in a clown suit better get some proper info.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Leneerra
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:32:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Beringe I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you?
I think ISS is a good thing, I hope they get their act together and solve their unruly pilot problem before it gets them in more trouble. I am still trying to get some shares, even though there is nothing on information availeble other than a buisness plan and a projection on income. (please find a way to list share transaction prices, and add payed dividents to your site)
I think that the sentence ", thus violating the terms of our agreement which stipulated 4 weeks prior notice for changes in contractual terms" should have been left out of their press release. I think this part of their press release calls on people to pass judgement on the other party in the contract. However we cannot pass judgement, because we have not seen the contract and we have not been supllied with a complete documentation of communications on this and related matters. For all we know the problem with the rogue pilots could have been comunicated to ISS over 4 weeks ago, and what has happened this week is merely BoB's ending of a dispute that has been going on for a while. I think ISS should simply have been more carefull in wording their press release.
Swallowing my ideals.. Nope.. But having ideals does not mean that people, that you think are beneficial to my ideals, can act in a way that I think is wrong or unprofessional. The fact that I speak up does mean I am against their general endavour.
But more importandly I tried to state that there are no binding contracts in eve. There is no authority to force them. Only binding transactions exist.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:33:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal.
Lmfao, ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement?! This isn't like some business deal between two suit type office dwelling businesses or whatever. This is an agreement between a very rich, yet very weak group of industrialists and a very large, angry, rabid beaver that can kill the other party within a moment's notice.
BOB FTW tbh, I was in Delve when these incidents happen and I'll have to say that if nothing else, ISS were a huge liability in security terms.
Originally by: Avon I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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Dark Avatar
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:46:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal.
But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership, but than again not everyone cheats in this game.
IIRC BoB have said they do not recognise Concord as an authority. What makes you think they will recognise you?
Fact1: ISS pilot transgressed against a BOB pilot Fact2: This is gross misconduct Fact3: Gross misconduct null and voids any contract, verbal or written. Fact4: There is no such thing as cheating so long as it exists and is legitimate in the game mechanics Fact5: There is nothing left to say on the matter.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:51:00 -
[97]
erm its stil not OMFG DIE ISS its please get off our land and stay out, besides that take care and stay off our path
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Romulus Maximus
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:52:00 -
[98]
ISS were given 3 days grace to clear up and get out. Which i think is very kind,considering what happened. Everyone seems to be overlooking some stuff. They supplied our enemies. They were riddled with alts,all working against us. BoB pilots were attacked by them.
IMO,that alone would warrent kos,but still,we gave them 3 days to get out. If they cant control thier alliance,thats not out problem. But we simply cant allow such underhanded doings to continue for 4 weeks. Something that is directly trying to hurt ur alliance needs to end now. And tbh,anyone who says they would have allowed them to continue this action for a full month is a fool.
I wish ISS luck in thier future ventures,and hope they can sort out thier problems. Its a shame this has been conducted in such a manor.
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Darcuese
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:57:00 -
[99]
Good...dont like capitalist anyway...they will ruin human spirit ---------------------------------------------------
ALL my words on this forum are my OWN thoughts and opinions |
DoctorGonzo
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Posted - 2005.11.22 09:58:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal.
But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics.
That's right, we got our Haxor GM and Dev accounts to spy on the ISS members we weren't happy with, then pressed the 'I win' button that only BoB directors have access too.
Damn and you figured that out all by yourself? Do you want to work for us? Perhaps you could draw up an SLA that you could breach then blame us for?
Get Your BoB Protection Kit Here |
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Leyanna
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:01:00 -
[101]
Sad...to say the least.
Minus the actual decision makers posting alliance statements, this entire thread is just festering with "omg u suck" garbage.
So Ill cut the junk and get to the point:
ISS:
- I find news of security issues concerning. I would be concerned if I were in upper ISS echelon. Best of luck and well wishes addressing this with current and/or future contracts. Hope it works out.
- While shareholders in ISS Marginis would of course be undoubtedly concerned should she come under attack, do not show your hand. One's best ally in poker is preventing the opponent from analyzing emotional or behavioral cues. Keep those cards hidden. :)
BoB:
- While we might not be talking real world decisions and methods of processing decisions, we are still employing specific aspects of our real world surroundings. When you agree to something and sign it, the onus is on either party of any contract to maintain their end. My point is not directed at the moment to whether or not ISS was at fault for security, rather:
Notice on Change of Terms We ask that alliances provide 4 weeks notice for any change in negociated terms of access to their space to provide sufficient time for ISS members not satified with any modifications in the agreement to peacefully relocate.
While it is up to said alliance to decide if four weeks are granted or not, it would be far wiser to respect the request agreed upon rather than make hasty decisions and breach portions of said contract. Extreme circumstances may be present that I am not aware of; that is certainly none of my business to know but definitely something that could have been brought to ISS attention.
In summary?
Good luck to both BoB and ISS to reconcile their differences. I can only hope the decisions made in recent history in the heat of the moment will not haunt the remainders of your days.
Godspeed and fly safe.
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ChefAce
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:32:00 -
[102]
Edited by: ChefAce on 22/11/2005 10:32:55
Originally by: Dianabolic
We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies
Damn the pies and arm the torpedos!!!!! -------------
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Ribbo
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:34:00 -
[103]
gross misconduct end of.
I like ISS, i think they're only a good thing for eve, there time in bob space is up, it's a shame, they made a lot of money out of bob space and were always polite to me in local, kudos for that, however i could have flown a titan through some of they're security holes.
Ribbo
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Dracorimus
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:50:00 -
[104]
Yeah sad indeed, I liked the iss guys, always chatty etc.
But what i do not like is knowing that 'rogue' pilots abused the iss to their own ends to cause problems for my alliance, thus the contract is ended.
Like has been said before, would you not close a gaping security hole if you saw one ?
No more needs to be said.
Gl ISS, pity people abused your concept tbh. -
For more than a single foe to attempt to fight the Reikoku at once is an act of supreme folley. |
Coupo
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Posted - 2005.11.22 10:53:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Coupo on 22/11/2005 10:53:20 ugh.. YAY i can shoot ISS in 0.0 HURRAH - I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:16:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Avon on 22/11/2005 11:16:54 This whole episode depresses me somewhat. I am on record as supporting the goals and ideals of ISS, but is clear they can't live up to them. No alliance would be sensible to allow ISS to open a huge security hole in their space. The whole 4 week issue is really a non-issue. There is a big difference between renegotiating standings, and open hostility. If ISS members are seen to attack an alliance that has opened their space to them, how do you expect them to react? ISS can only be trusted as much as their members. If ISS can not provide assurance that their alliance can not, and will not, be used to infiltrate claimed space, and are seen to be in control of their membership, how can you have faith in them? It isn't a case of punishing those who do wrong. By then it is already too late.
ISS are in a postion where trust is everything. To prosper they must be able to secure the confidence of those who claim the space they work in. If they are seen as a security risk they will be dealt with as such, and their wonderful ideals will be worth nothing.
Everyday you see people crying that they can't get in to 0.0 The want to enjoy the content without being targets. Then that chance is extended to people like ISS, and they throw it back in your face. ISS were in a position that many players would envy, and they blew it.
Shame. ______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Amon Evakrace
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:31:00 -
[107]
ROFL |
Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:37:00 -
[108]
What always amazes me, is all those people that aren't ISS, that havent a clue about what's happening, and come in this thread just to practice rock throwing.
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rig0r
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Posted - 2005.11.22 11:53:00 -
[109]
/emote throws rock at bob.
Thank you.
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SkaffenAmtiskaw
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: rig0r /emote throws rock at bob.
Ouch. My eye! I AM BLINDED!
Oooh... an eyepatch, I can hide the bruise ______
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Ribbo
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:17:00 -
[111]
see what you did now rig0r, you made skaff a dirty eyepatch wearing pirate..
damn you..
he was such a pretty pretty boy, now his mother and family will disown him to fend for himself killing mercilesly for such a filthy rock attack...
there there skaff, here, have another mutilated minmater leg bone to chew upon :(
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:18:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Beringe
I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you?
One of our ideals is that individual members of Jericho Fraction are entitled to express their personal views in public so long as they do so in a respectful and rational manner.
For the avoidance of doubt: Jericho Fraction the corporation has no policy on this issue and regards it as none of our business.
Thank you,
Cosmo Voice of the Freecaptains Director
Voice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction |
Lungorthin
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:31:00 -
[113]
Move along and learn from this.
ISS, your concept is great, I wish you economic success.
BUT the lesson to be learned here is that your openness is a gateway for spies and saboteurs to have unhindered movement rights in what would otherwise be off limit space to them. Harming the host alliance.
ISS your immediate task is to enforce stricter guidelines and enhance security in your own ranks.
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:32:00 -
[114]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
For the avoidance of doubt: Jericho Fraction the corporation has no policy on this issue and regards it as none of our business.
Considering something that doesn't concern you to be none of your business? Isn't that illegal on these forums or something?
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:37:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Considering something that doesn't concern you to be none of your business? Isn't that illegal on these forums or something?
Heh. You'd think so wouldn't you?
Cosmo
Voice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction |
Zenst
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:49:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark dribbled Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal.
But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics.
SLA! Service Level Agreement Oh nooooes. Have you called the BOB watchdog about this and lodged a formal complaint or you going to quote the Genevia convention next! :/.
PS did you read this SLA out of game - may want to explain that to ISS; Apparently they dont have the connections to do this :|.
On a more posituive side I feel that your talants are wasted and you should run for local polatician as you said much but told me nothing. Qualities that go hand in hand with such a role.
/me awaits copies of signed SLA's, TOC's and ITP's
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Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:51:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Blydchyld on 22/11/2005 12:53:51 Gl all.
I LIKE ARK!
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
Wrok
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Posted - 2005.11.22 12:51:00 -
[118]
ISS JUST DOES"NT WANNA BE TARGETS THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND AREAS THEY FEEL SAFE IN WELL AHAHAHAHA TAKE LIKE A MAN? OR IN THIS CASE A CHARACTER!!
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.22 13:14:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 22/11/2005 13:14:10 Perhaps they need some internal security devision with their best and most loyal pilots. Reminds me of NPC corps now.
Anyway I don't think it's the right time that people jump on the bandwaggon and throw ISS out of their space. Imho this is a thing between BoB and ISS in the first place.
I'm not aware of any problems with ISS in our neighborhood. Ok, they have or had some trouble with RAT, but that speaks for them. ___________ 'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.' |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.11.22 13:35:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Wrok ISS JUST DOES"NT WANNA BE TARGETS THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND AREAS THEY FEEL SAFE IN WELL AHAHAHAHA TAKE LIKE A MAN? OR IN THIS CASE A CHARACTER!!
Shm, you need a chill-pill?
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