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Count TaSessine
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:40:00 -
[1 ]
Effective Saturday Nov 12, ISS has no obligations to BoB in Period Basis or elsewhere. One of the BOB corps CEO, SirMolle, terminated the contract between ISS and BoB with three days notice, thus violating the terms of our agreement which stipulated 4 weeks prior notice for changes in contractual terms. Background On Friday Nov 11, a rogue pilot from an ISS member corporation was seen flying in a gang with Vertigo Coalition, fighting a BoB guest alliance called Exuro Mortis. The next day, when ISS management was made aware of the issue, we immediately expelled the pilot from ISS, as this was a clear violation of the ISS Charter. We then contacted the wronged parties and told them of the outcome. Our swift resolution of the matter was apparently not sufficient for the BoB spokesperson since he then proceeded to resign the contract on behalf on BoB in the form of a 5 minute monologue. ISS has received no explanations or insights into why BoB chose to disregard the terms of a clearcut contract. ISS is sad to see a mutually profitable business relationship come to an end.About ISS The ISS is a playerdriven civilian megacorporation specialised in moon mining, production and distribution of the derived products, ie. Tech2 components. The company operate all over the known Eve galaxy. The ISS megacorporation does not claim territory anywhere in Eve like the traditional alliance/states. The ISS work, like the Kaalikiota or Ishukone corporations, in many states and alliances and pay tax and rent to their hosts in the regions they have been allowed to work in. The ISS was originally created to provide a framework for the many small and medium sized corporations that wish to move into 0.0 space, but who cannot because of political and military constraints or a lack of alliance-affiliation.Chairman, ISS Now open:
sidthesexist
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:43:00 -
[2 ]
Good on you ISS :D ___________ Drones Oh Anhialation I.R.O.N
Alasse Cuthalion
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:49:00 -
[3 ]
sigh The incident you refer to was FAAAR from isolated, ISS were nothing but a liability. Get over it and quit whining.Current RKK Ranking: (CAL12) Shogun
Rod Blaine
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:50:00 -
[4 ]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/11/2005 19:52:18 I think I can safely say about that that we do not dislike ISS as a concept at all, not you as it's leader. But, one would say you need to re-evaluate your policies on a number of things, including but not limited to: - recruitment - internal communications We let you in, we set rules, we don't give people many chances and are known for that. Screw up = byebye. If you accept the rules, don't break them. So for us breaching the 4 week contract deal, who cares ? I dont know if it even existed, but I couldn't care less. As I understand this wasn't a singular issue with just one member, if it were we would probably haven't kicked you out. However, 4 week periods mean nothing to us like I said. Oh, and SirMolle or Shrike is not a spokesperson, it's the alliance leader. If he says so, it goes for BoB. No use trying the "misled director doing something oopsy" angle on that. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
pshepherd
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:51:00 -
[5 ]
Originally by: Alasse Cuthalion sigh The incident you refer to was FAAAR from isolated, ISS were nothing but a liability. Get over it and quit whining. i gotta agree, having such a loose alliance means that any one person can really mess things up for you. ============== This is a sig
Mister Snow
Posted - 2005.11.21 19:52:00 -
[6 ]
Well done for sticking up to typical BoB bullying. Guard that stunning Margins outpost well. Taking something like that would suit Molles uber ego just perfectly. Good luck ISS.
Nuala Reece
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:08:00 -
[7 ]
Edited by: Nuala Reece on 21/11/2005 20:09:06 Originally by: Rod Blaine So for us breaching the 4 week contract deal, who cares ? I dont know if it even existed, but I couldn't care less. That would seem like a pretty important thing for people to care about who currently have agreements with BoB or who plan to in the future. Breach of contract is a pretty serious thing in diplomacy and not the kind of thing that goes unnoticed or is easily forgotten. If your contract allowed for 4 weeks notice you could have used this as a deadline for ISS to sort out their problem recruits, following which BoB could have ended the contract as per the agreement. Originally by: Rod Blaine As I understand this wasn't a singular issue with just one member, if it were we would probably haven't kicked you out. However, 4 week periods mean nothing to us like I said. Then why include that time period as part of a diplomatic/economic agreement? How does BoB expect allies and customers to trust them when their members display such contempt for contractual obligations?Be Free Starlancers
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:14:00 -
[8 ]
We are well known for honoring agreements with those that keep them. We demanded that ISS run internal security protocols in keeping with the fact that we're a very close knit group, that demands higher recruitment and acceptance criteria than "can fly a hauler". We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies and saboteurs. These were indeed swiftly dealt with, however the agreement wasn't that they would be kicked upon discovery, it was that ISS would do everything in its power to prevent these pilots from joining their ranks in the first place. They failed in this. As such they failed to keep to their obligations as one of our community corporations / alliances and led to them being removed from our space. Good luck to ISS, because if they don't square up their internal security you can bet we won't be the last to revoke your standings. As it was we were one of, if not the, first group to allow them access, they borked it. Learn from that and move on. And stay the hell out of our way. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Kcel Chim
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:16:00 -
[9 ]
A civilian non affiliated alliance full of independent thinking and breathing individulas will not work. Especially in the age of alt accounts, char sales and alt characters. Last but not least u cant control if there werent sleepers exploiting the rights u had in BoB space. Just imagine alts bringing ammo, scouting, collecting infos all under your tag and you get a small thought about the things which stink with "neutrals" in any warzone (in eve's current way and possibilities).
Rift Scorn
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:27:00 -
[10 ]
Originally by: Nuala Reece Breach of contract is a pretty serious thing in diplomacy and not the kind of thing that goes unnoticed or is easily forgotten Shooting a pilot of an Alliance that gives you permission to do what you will in there space also is not a thing that goes un-noticed. Ever heard of 'Gross Misconduct', it's written into most standard employment contracts, infact contracts of pretty much any type, and leads to IMMEDIATE dismissal. Shooting a BoB pilot in BoB claimed space, pretty much counts as gross misconduct. Any alliance that can't control it's pilots, is not the type of Alliance that BoB wants in its space. I find it pretty surprising that Molle didn't give the order to immediatley roast any unluckey ISS pilot in PB after the incident. Us foot soldiers were told NOT to fire on ISS until the date ISS were given to remove themselves and their effects, and no one did, because BoB pilots can actually follow rules that are set out. Not to mention the army of alts that ISS houses who's main's are in Alliance with polar views to our. Make mine a Double!
Luc Boye
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:33:00 -
[11 ]
so we can shoot those ISS now? \o/
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:35:00 -
[12 ]
Standings ftw. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Burzon
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:39:00 -
[13 ]
I think there are many issues evolving around this situation. 1. As fas as my knowledge goes, the PBA regional coordinator, who happends to be in my corp, was not made aware of the problems and actions mentioned here. 2. BoB could have stuck to their deal quitting the contract before that last incident in order to allow ISS for a organised retreat rather then a unpleasent exodus from Period Basis. 3. Days before the incident the contract between ISS and BoB had been changed and this would have been another chance to make ISS aware of the problems BoB had with several ISS corporations. 4. In terms of deescalation both BoB and Exuro Mortis were not willing to get into negotiations with senior ISS management. 5. Upon end of the grace period to exit Period Basis an empire war with Exuro Mortis became active, so from my understanding problems must have been severe. All in all i can say that we thank BoB for lettings us deal with them on the contract for more then 4 month on the other hand dealings on how the contract was ended were sub par and a full explanation was lacking, which was the primary reason for posting this on the forums. In addition to this it must be said that my corp was offered to leave ISS and renegotiate a per corp contract for living in Period Basis. Good luck for the future BoB and thx for all the fish. BurzonCEO PAX Interstellar Sales Director, ISS
Nuala Reece
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:52:00 -
[14 ]
Edited by: Nuala Reece on 21/11/2005 20:52:57 Originally by: Rift Scorn Shooting a pilot of an Alliance that gives you permission to do what you will in there space also is not a thing that goes un-noticed. Ever heard of 'Gross Misconduct', it's written into most standard employment contracts, infact contracts of pretty much any type, and leads to IMMEDIATE dismissal. Was it part of BoB's contract with ISS? If so, was it used as the reason for terminating the contract? Generally speaking a contract would need to have already defined what constitutes 'gross misconduct' in order that there is no confusion when that is used as a reason to terminate the contract. These things need checks and balances to avoid snap decisions and confusion. Also, no matter what the reason surely ISS deserves the courtesy of an explanation of what desicion has been made, what reasoning went into that desicion, and under what terms of the contract it was made. Especially when, according to Count TaSessine, ISS was given 3 days notice of the termination. However, Originally by: Count TaSessine ISS has received no explanations or insights into why BoB chose to disregard the terms of a clearcut contract. There appears to be a lack of clarity on BoB's part as to what decision was made and why (at least as far as communicating that to ISS goes) as well as a lack of clarity on the part of some BoB members as to what agreements their alliance is maintining and the reasons for them.Be Free Starlancers
Angus Therm0pyle
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:55:00 -
[15 ]
the fact iss just hired mercs didn't help ---------------
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:56:00 -
[16 ]
Nuala, read my post and stop flannelling the whole thing with rl legalese. ISS failed to control or police their members, something we insisted they do - ergo we revoked their standings. End of story. It's a shame the ISS guy removed his post prior to yours, was a good one. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:59:00 -
[17 ]
Look this is pretty simple and doesn't need 650 lengthy well worded replies. ISS came to us and asked to use our space. We agreed. A bunch of nasty people then took advantage of ISS by using alts to haul stuff into Delve, using ISS to watch our shared channels, abusing friendly corps in local and then, finally, attacking friendly corps. Finally, over a week ago, ISS contract was terminated and they were given 3 days to leave. Why they felt it necessary to post here I don't know. If they were looking for answers or to attempt to tarnish our Alliance then good luck with that. Game over man, game over. My advice, steer well clear of BoB pilots. You had your chance to reap the rewards of living in our space and through no-one elses fault but your own you have failed. Fly safe, dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:59:00 -
[18 ]
Originally by: Nuala Reece ...as well as a lack of clarity on the part of some BoB members as to what agreements their alliance is maintining and the reasons for them. Since when do the rank and file need to know the most intimate details of ever agreement? They don't. Too many people knowing too much leads to too many cooks. That's not how we operate. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
ponieus
Posted - 2005.11.21 20:59:00 -
[19 ]
Originally by: Burzon Edited by: Burzon on 21/11/2005 20:47:32 Nuff said now why you do that.. nothing wrong with it..
Sobeseki Pawi
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:07:00 -
[20 ]
As much as it hurts...I can't help but agree with BoB on this. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me.Sovereignty 2.0
Alexison
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:08:00 -
[21 ]
Originally by: Burzon I think there are many issues evolving around this situation. 1. As fas as my knowledge goes, the PBA regional coordinator, who happends to be in my corp, was not made aware of the problems and actions mentioned here. 2. BoB could have stuck to their deal quitting the contract before that last incident in order to allow ISS for a organised retreat rather then a unpleasent exodus from Period Basis. 3. Days before the incident the contract between ISS and BoB had been changed and this would have been another chance to make ISS aware of the problems BoB had with several ISS corporations. 4. In terms of deescalation both BoB and Exuro Mortis were not willing to get into negotiations with senior ISS management. 5. Upon end of the grace period to exit Period Basis an empire war with Exuro Mortis became active, so from my understanding problems must have been severe. All in all i can say that we thank BoB for lettings us deal with them on the contract for more then 4 month on the other hand dealings on how the contract was ended were sub par and a full explanation was lacking, which was the primary reason for posting this on the forums. In addition to this it must be said that my corp was offered to leave ISS and renegotiate a per corp contract for living in Period Basis. Good luck for the future BoB and thx for all the fish. BurzonCEO PAX Interstellar Sales Director, ISS This deserves to be said.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:09:00 -
[22 ]
Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 21/11/2005 21:09:17 Originally by: Angus Therm0pyle the fact iss just hired mercs didn't help We haven't hired anybody to attack BoB; we have no reason to. Any mercs we may have hired to attack anybody else, is hardly relevant to this press release. *edit* I probably should have held off on posting this until I'm officially back in ISS. Guys from Aliastra aren't normally considered to be alliance members
Angus Therm0pyle
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:14:00 -
[23 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 21/11/2005 21:09:17 Originally by: Angus Therm0pyle the fact iss just hired mercs didn't help We haven't hired anybody to attack BoB; we have no reason to. Any mercs we may have hired to attack anybody else, is hardly relevant to this press release. *edit* I probably should have held off on posting this until I'm officially back in ISS. Guys from Aliastra aren't normally considered to be alliance members when you do check your alliance mails cause my alts did ---------------
qrac
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:14:00 -
[24 ]
it took longer than i expected. -------------------------------------------Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:20:00 -
[25 ]
Originally by: Angus Therm0pyle when you do check your alliance mails cause my alts did So did mine, and they confirm that we have not hired any mercenaries to attack BoB.
Baun
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:20:00 -
[26 ]
Originally by: qrac it took longer than i expected. Indeed The Enemy's Gate is Down
Elenia Kheynes
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:25:00 -
[27 ]
Originally by: Dianabolic We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies and saboteurs. yumm Pie :P I love pie Don't you ? ;.;Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
Sartaron
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:25:00 -
[28 ]
Edited by: Sartaron on 21/11/2005 21:25:06 OOC: "... cause my alts did ..." better say ".. cause my spies did... " otherwise peaople could think you need metagaming to survive in this universe ;-)
BillyBong2
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:26:00 -
[29 ]
/emote is confused. What took longer then expected? Siggy by Esturary
Kyguard
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:30:00 -
[30 ]
Quote: Why they felt it necessary to post here I don't know. If they were looking for answers or to attempt to tarnish our Alliance then good luck with that. Same reason BoB, Five or any other alliance makes public announcements -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Antoinette Civari
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:34:00 -
[31 ]
Originally by: Kyguard Quote: Why they felt it necessary to post here I don't know. If they were looking for answers or to attempt to tarnish our Alliance then good luck with that. Same reason BoB, Five or any other alliance makes public announcements Smacktalk others because we are uber ? :(
Kyguard
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:35:00 -
[32 ]
Edited by: Kyguard on 21/11/2005 21:37:52 Originally by: Antoinette Civari Originally by: Kyguard Quote: Why they felt it necessary to post here I don't know. If they were looking for answers or to attempt to tarnish our Alliance then good luck with that. Same reason BoB, Five or any other alliance makes public announcements Smacktalk others because we are uber ? :( Uh? Oh, don't take it the wrong way or get me wrong...I lub the drama And in staying on topic; Good luck to ISS. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
WeLoveYouLongTime
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:41:00 -
[33 ]
Its really not a good idea to fall out with one of the biggest alliance killers in the game - especially when you have a 40bil outpost toy. You should be making friends not loosing them. Bob wont come for you because they are on the other side of eve and frankly it wouldn't be worth thier time to go east and hurt you. But you should take this as a warning and improve your contractal relations with your neighbours better because if you start to fall out with them too then its bye bye outpost.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:45:00 -
[34 ]
Originally by: WeLoveYouLongTime Its really not a good idea to fall out with one of the biggest alliance killers in the game - especially when you have a 40bil outpost toy.. ISS doesn't *own* that toy, it just runs it. It's owned by the shareholders, many of whom are significant high-up guys in major alliances, who would be, shall we say, displeased if it was under serious attack.
Leneerra
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:49:00 -
[35 ]
Simplest reason to post this: Informing their shareholders of circumstances that may seriously affect the share value and dividents. and in doing so they did well. However, -Taking the end of the agreament to a public court. -Disclosing only part of the contract in an attempt to sway public sentiment. These acts are less than professional. I can accept they feel wronged somehow by the decisive action of BoB. But I also see how BoB sees its intrests harmed by the inability on ISS-es side to keep the pilots they accept responcebillity for under control. In BoB space BoB is the authority until, by force, others prove they have authority. The actions by the pilots flying under ISS flag directly undermine this authority. This also showes the problems of so called binding contracts. There is nothing that makes them binding. There is no authority either side can turn to if they feel wronged. Maybe for contracts there should be some kind of arbitration or a (public)registry. Only if some kind of arbitor could be found that both parties would accept, then this dispute could perhaps be solved with both parties satisfied. This is a very unlikely scenario.
WeLoveYouLongTime
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:51:00 -
[36 ]
Edited by: WeLoveYouLongTime on 21/11/2005 21:53:15 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: WeLoveYouLongTime Its really not a good idea to fall out with one of the biggest alliance killers in the game - especially when you have a 40bil outpost toy.. ISS doesn't *own* that toy, it just runs it. It's owned by the shareholders, many of whom are significant high-up guys in major alliances, who would be, shall we say, displeased if it was under serious attack. So are you saying that they dont care if bob attack the ISS Marginis or are you saing that if they do then shareholders from other major alliances will deal with bob for them?
Kala amortis
Posted - 2005.11.21 21:54:00 -
[37 ]
Originally by: Dianabolic We are well known for honoring agreements with those that keep them. ummm sry history of eve atm says no to this statement 2nd PA war FA war nameless others
j0sephine
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:00:00 -
[38 ]
"So are you saying that they dont care if bob attack the ISS Marginis or are you saing that if they do then shareholders from other major alliances will deal with bob for them?" It sounds like the latter, and to be honest feels a bit like a blunder. Don't think there was ill sentiment about the way contract was ended, neither would that be a reason to go after ISS or the things they run. But rattling sabers to the tune of "nah nah we have friends so no one can harm us" may have exactly opposite effect ... since it's bordering on a challenge and these sometimes get accepted.
Blacklight
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:01:00 -
[39 ]
If ISS want answers Count can convo me directly. For airing elements of our business in public you lose another 100 points on the 'in favour with BoB scale', which is not generally accepted as being amongst the smartest moves a player in Eve can make. I think this discussion has gone plenty far enough from our perspective, you know how to use the conversation option if you want any further explanation for our answers.Eve Blacklight Style
Blacklight
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:03:00 -
[40 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: WeLoveYouLongTime Its really not a good idea to fall out with one of the biggest alliance killers in the game - especially when you have a 40bil outpost toy.. ISS doesn't *own* that toy, it just runs it. It's owned by the shareholders, many of whom are significant high-up guys in major alliances, who would be, shall we say, displeased if it was under serious attack. ...and you think we couldn't square that away first? You're awfully niaive if you think that will stop us if we decide we want that outpost. You guys really ought to be flying under our radar at the moment, you're on the **** list of at least one BoB CEO at the moment, manage to get on another one and that really might be heat things up.Eve Blacklight Style
Mr Babilonia
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:07:00 -
[41 ]
No one is doing chest beating. It was just mentioned on how we see things and that we could not get a full explanation of the issues. If this thread serves the purpose to get them ... fine ... if not ... we will end posting here. It is not thought to test out alliance egos. In addition Badlour was only mentioning that hitting Marginis outpost is not an attack on ISS assets but on other peoples assets, namely the shareholders. If an attack is launched no one can predict the reactions from other entities. Nuff said now ! Burzon
Fred0
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:08:00 -
[42 ]
Well Count has to post publically because of the shareholders more or less. The rest of the posturing is nonsense really and none of it is done by count tasessine. Then again it's not unknown for smallfish to start trouble that escalates into a whole ****storm...
Shirei
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:08:00 -
[43 ]
I think BoB is generally not all that unhappy about 'reactions' from 'other entities'.
qrac
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:09:00 -
[44 ]
Originally by: BillyBong2 /emote is confused. What took longer then expected? sir molle's patience the negative aspects of u operating in bob's space outweighed the positive aspects. it is as simple as that.. -------------------------------------------Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Burzon
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:10:00 -
[45 ]
Damn production alts :DCEO PAX Interstellar Sales Director, ISS
hellhathnofury
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:13:00 -
[46 ]
Originally by: Hellraiza666 its a ******* game, leave your legal bull**** out of game plz ? It's not just a game, it's another life. And as much a game as the real one is. I love threads like this
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:15:00 -
[47 ]
Originally by: Blacklight ...and you think we couldn't square that away first? For all I know, some of those shareholders are IN BoB. Besides, it wouldn't be a lot of use to anyone other than ISS, it's purely a trade hub. Owned by a regional-claiming alliance, it's not going to function as much of a trade hub, is it?
Antoinette Civari
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:21:00 -
[48 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr For all I know, some of those shareholders are IN BoB. Besides, it wouldn't be a lot of use to anyone other than ISS, it's purely a trade hub. Owned by a regional-claiming alliance, it's not going to function as much of a trade hub, is it? Take it, ransom it back, pay out the loss of the shareholders in the own alliance and spread the wealth inbetween the involved corps. ;) Originally by: Kyguard Uh? Oh, don't take it the wrong way or get me wrong...I lub the drama And in staying on topic; Good luck to ISS. t'was just a little self irony ;)
Shittake
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:23:00 -
[49 ]
Edited by: ****take on 21/11/2005 22:23:26 /sarcasm onWell it must be ISS' fault because BoB never does anything wrong, they are uber, the rest of us suck. If they say it's ISS' fault then it absolutely must be. /sarcasm off Count, not to sound unsympathetic, but when you deal with BoB you will eventually get burned. I would not trust BoB as an organization as far as I could throw them (some of their pilots are honorable though).
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:29:00 -
[50 ]
Originally by: ****take Count, not to sound unsympathetic, but when you deal with BoB you will eventually get burned. I would not trust BoB as an organization as far as I could throw them (some of their pilots are honorable though). I wouldn't go so far. They at least gave us three days to get out, which is three days more than they could have done. If they'd seriously been out for their own gain, they could have just swiped all of our assets and left us to cry. The agreement, while it lasted, was profitable for both sides. If BoB feel that the cost in terms of alt spies getting into their space, is too high a price to pay, then that is their prerogative. We remain open to discussion with all other alliances in EVE, which have firmly established claims on territory. (For obvious reasons, we don't particularly care to make agreements in contested space, unless we can make an agreement with all of the sides contesting it.) Should BoB at some later date reverse their decision, I'm sure we would be willing to move back into their areas. There's always more moons to mine than any one alliance can make use of themselves. So far as ISS is concerned we part on, if not actually friendly, at least benevolently neutral terms.
Jherek Cornelian
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:48:00 -
[51 ]
Originally by: Dianabolic We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies mmmmmmmm pies /me welcomes ISS with open arms
Adam Weishaupt
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:49:00 -
[52 ]
Originally by: Hellraiza666 its a ******* game, leave your legal bull**** out of game plz ? Don't hate on people who take the corp/legal aspects seriously...that's part of what makes EVE so good. Instead of every little conflict being "OMG u sux, illiteracy 4tw!!!!11", in EVE, things are more nuanced, more complex, more civilized... ...and then we go blow each other to pieces anyway.
Bhaal
Posted - 2005.11.21 22:59:00 -
[53 ]
I like pie :) ------------------------------------------------Current Hobby other than EVE
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.21 23:37:00 -
[54 ]
Originally by: Jherek Cornelian mmmmmmmm pies I feel violated Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Linh Ywang
Posted - 2005.11.21 23:42:00 -
[55 ]
So what is the stance towards bob now ? -10 ? _________________________HC MasiEEE for PRESIDENT Official Election Manager
Nick Curso
Posted - 2005.11.21 23:45:00 -
[56 ]
Dian i think the less u say about violated the better
Nafri
Posted - 2005.11.21 23:55:00 -
[57 ]
are people really moaning about this announcement? tbh, thats one of the few announcements here which are a) interesting b) make sense c) dont made by an alt
Angelhunter
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:09:00 -
[58 ]
Good for you ISS, you don't need to be a BoB (and lackeys) meatshield anyway. As far as breaking deals go, BoB has no room to talk, game history shows many incidents. ---------------
Elenia Kheynes
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:24:00 -
[59 ]
Originally by: Nafri are people really moaning about this announcement? tbh, thats one of the few announcements here which are a) interesting b) make sense c) dont made by an alt d) is about cakes invading an alliance want me to make you a sig Nafri ? I owe you that I guess Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
WeLoveYouLongTime
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:27:00 -
[60 ]
Originally by: j0sephine "So are you saying that they dont care if bob attack the ISS Marginis or are you saing that if they do then shareholders from other major alliances will deal with bob for them?" It sounds like the latter, and to be honest feels a bit like a blunder. Don't think there was ill sentiment about the way contract was ended, neither would that be a reason to go after ISS or the things they run. But rattling sabers to the tune of "nah nah we have friends so no one can harm us" may have exactly opposite effect ... since it's bordering on a challenge and these sometimes get accepted. Yeh I agree it did sound threatening and thats not really a smart thing to do as relations with any factions in EVE can change overnight. I wish all the best to ISS and thier outpost but feel they could try to handle inter-factional relations a little better instead of trying to play the 'we have dangerous friends who have shares in our outpost' type of card. Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Blacklight ...and you think we couldn't square that away first? For all I know, some of those shareholders are IN BoB. Besides, it wouldn't be a lot of use to anyone other than ISS, it's purely a trade hub. Owned by a regional-claiming alliance, it's not going to function as much of a trade hub, is it? Baldour, you're joking right? An Outpost is of immense use to any faction (Do you think Oberon would have left SA and made a deal with G if G didnt have thier outpost?) The ISS Marginis is in a part of eve near all the eastern factions. It has only 3 moons which is excellent for maintaining pos defense and soverienty, and lastly it has an ice belt in system. I don't know about you but dont play down its value, for a roaming pvp faction the ISS Marginis is a friggin 5 star hotel with complementary bathrobes and satalite tv.
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:29:00 -
[61 ]
Originally by: Angelhunter ...meatshield... rofl Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:39:00 -
[62 ]
<gets out popcorn and soda...> Munch...Munch...Munch Gotta dig a good soap opera like this one. I miss you Dianabolic, how come you don't call anymore? Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
Gwath
Posted - 2005.11.22 00:41:00 -
[63 ]
Awwww, poor iss has one less alliance to freeload off of. Hope all the other 0.0 powers follow bob's lead. Carebears have their own regions, it is commonly known as empire.
Berneh
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:03:00 -
[64 ]
have we won anything yet ? i'm not writing in this thread unless i get a trophy ! oh crap
Wuubaa
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:04:00 -
[65 ]
Originally by: Berneh have we won anything yet ? i'm not writing in this thread unless i get a trophy ! oh crap ill give u a certifcate?
KSUDruid
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:09:00 -
[66 ]
Originally by: Berneh i'm not writing in this thread unless i get a trophy ! I had a Pizza Trophy I was going to give to you, but I got hungry and ate it -Druid
insuperable
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:10:00 -
[67 ]
Originally by: Count TaSessine Effective Saturday Nov 12, ISS has no obligations to BoB in Period Basis or elsewhere. Pilots of Honour will be setting all ISS corporation standings to 0.0.Interesting... Gallery
Kin Hanyerec
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:20:00 -
[68 ]
Originally by: pshepherd i want to see a BoB vs ISS war. Very messy you wont see it. ISS were just set to neutral not red for bob.
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.22 01:37:00 -
[69 ]
Originally by: pshepherd i want to see a BoB vs ISS war. Very messy Our war against them just expired, one week was more than enough to get out our frustration on ISS. Unfortunately, they decided it prudent to hire mercs on us, which I find immensely entertaining. Should you wish to view the campaign statistics, feel free to look at the Exuro Mortis killtracker link in the reference thread. And Count, I'm still waiting for my haiku.
Vishnej
Posted - 2005.11.22 04:16:00 -
[70 ]
Edited by: Vishnej on 22/11/2005 04:16:50 Originally by: Rift Scorn Originally by: Nuala Reece Breach of contract is a pretty serious thing in diplomacy and not the kind of thing that goes unnoticed or is easily forgotten Shooting a pilot of an Alliance that gives you permission to do what you will in there space also is not a thing that goes un-noticed. Ever heard of 'Gross Misconduct', it's written into most standard employment contracts, infact contracts of pretty much any type, and leads to IMMEDIATE dismissal. Shooting a BoB pilot in BoB claimed space, pretty much counts as gross misconduct. Any alliance that can't control it's pilots, is not the type of Alliance that BoB wants in its space. I find it pretty surprising that Molle didn't give the order to immediatley roast any unluckey ISS pilot in PB after the incident. Us foot soldiers were told NOT to fire on ISS until the date ISS were given to remove themselves and their effects, and no one did, because BoB pilots can actually follow rules that are set out. Not to mention the army of alts that ISS houses who's main's are in Alliance with polar views to our. The contract stipulated a month to retrieve assets upon contract termination - it can take 12 hours to remove a fully equipped large pos, and much, much more to haul it back to Empire. How many did ISS have in your space? Noone has a problem with you deciding that ISS was full of spies (though we seem to be missing one there :)), but you agreed to the terms of the contract, which included a means of ending the contract. ----------------------------T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
invaderzim
Posted - 2005.11.22 04:58:00 -
[71 ]
Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 21/11/2005 23:06:34 I like pie :) With Ice Cream, on it plz :) I'd like boobies w/ pie on em, if anyone's handing out pie/boobies.
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:31:00 -
[72 ]
I'm disgusted that BoB decided to break their contract agreement with the ISS, which clearly stipulated a four week notice, because of events outside of the ISS' control. I could understand if BoB cancelled the contract, giving the ISS the proper time to retreat and retract, but three days is clearly a breach of contract. The mighty BoB couldn't wait a single month to cancel? I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you? -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:34:00 -
[73 ]
Originally by: Blacklight 'in favour with BoB scale' All things considered, I think we can safely say that this scale is worthless. -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Kyle Caldrel
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:39:00 -
[74 ]
Originally by: Beringe I'm disgusted that BoB decided to break their contract agreement with the ISS, which clearly stipulated a four week notice, because of events outside of the ISS' control. I could understand if BoB cancelled the contract, giving the ISS the proper time to retreat and retract, but three days is clearly a breach of contract. The mighty BoB couldn't wait a single month to cancel? I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you? 3 days is more than fair.
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:43:00 -
[75 ]
Originally by: Kyle Caldrel 3 days is more than fair. Then why did they negotiate four weeks in the contract? It is clearly a breach of contract. Try to put a spin on that. -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
ProphetGuru
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:53:00 -
[76 ]
Originally by: Beringe I'm disgusted that BoB decided to break their contract agreement with the ISS, BLAH BLAH I also find it disgusting that BLAH BLAH BLAH In case you were wondering, your opinion doesn't matter. Reasons beyond there control? If a BoB pilot takes a potshot at someone these forums are set on fire, by people like you pointing a finger. BoB is responsible for it's pilots actions is it not? When the shoe is on the other foot... you still point a finger at us. It wasn't working out, they were given notice, and set to neutral. It's a done deal. Nothing else really needs to be said. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 06:58:00 -
[77 ]
Originally by: ProphetGuru In case you were wondering, your opinion doesn't matter. You still took time to reply to me, didn't you? I know mighty, mighty Evol doesn't care about little me. Of course you wouldn't. That doesn't change the fact that the stock value of your precious word has fallen in value. You may or may not realize that I do not normally point fingers on these forums. It's not of any consequence, really. What matters is that BoB couldn't keep their end of the first and only proper business deal of 0.0. People should stand up and take notice. Please flame my insignificance again. It really makes a difference in how you acted. -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Admiral IceBlock
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:00:00 -
[78 ]
same old bob enlarging their e-peen "We brake for nobody"
ProphetGuru
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:09:00 -
[79 ]
Originally by: Beringe You still took time to reply to me, didn't you? Bored at work, don't get all excited that I took the time to respond to you. I can certainly understand your excitement, but don't pop a vein or anything. Quote: I know mighty, mighty Evol doesn't care about little me. Of course you wouldn't. Glad we're on the same page here. Quote: That doesn't change the fact that the stock value of your precious word has fallen in value. What matters is that BoB couldn't keep their end of the first and only proper business deal of 0.0. People should stand up and take notice. You are so quick to blame BoB, yet you overlook the reasons for this entire thing taking place. They had pilots shooting at us. We could have kos'd them, blockaded their assets, and destroyed their pos's if they had any. We instead said, "Hey, know what, get ur stuff and go and we'll call it good." Quote: Please flame my insignificance again. It really makes a difference in how you acted. My first response wasn't a flame. It was a statement that your opinion doesn't matter to BoB, and it wouldn't change the outcome of this. This reply however, may contain some things you also feel are flames. Rest assured that I have no need to flame you to make you look bad. You are doing a fine job of looking like an idiot without my assistance. Nice chatting tho. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Lilan Kahn
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:13:00 -
[80 ]
Edited by: Lilan Kahn on 22/11/2005 07:13:59 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock same old bob enlarging their e-peen same old icenub waveing his epeen like a flag Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:18:00 -
[81 ]
Originally by: ProphetGuru You are so quick to blame BoB, yet you overlook the reasons for this entire thing taking place. They had pilots shooting at us. We could have kos'd them, blockaded their assets, and destroyed their pos's if they had any. We instead said, "Hey, know what, get ur stuff and go and we'll call it good." I feel I'm justified in calling you guys out on this one. Especially since the ISS are all too willing to throw out the offending parties and keep their end of the contract, you could definitely have kept up your end without too much trouble. Four weeks is nothing to you. As a side note: Hey lilan. 'sup? -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Lilan Kahn
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:22:00 -
[82 ]
Originally by: Beringe As a side note: Hey lilan. 'sup? im fine, just bored at it class. oh btw iss unloadet a frighter or two of surplys to verius hostil entitys in delv so i dont feel sorry for them Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Simon Illian
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:26:00 -
[83 ]
it's not a declaration of war, it's not a declaration of hostility or set - standing. It's just an INFORMATIVE post about a situation who have been finished some days ago (mean the post is NOT for change a things). Smacktalking is easy, why do you not see a count response at you'r response ? it's just an informative post.[Eve Tool for the mass ]
Beringe
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:40:00 -
[84 ]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn oh btw iss unloadet a frighter or two of surplys to verius hostil entitys in delv so i dont feel sorry for them I could see that as a breach of contract on their side, sure enough. (tons better to get actual reasons than ProphetGuru's "oh yeah! Your moma!" response, tbh) -------------------------------------------Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Serilla
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:51:00 -
[85 ]
Im sad to see the contract between those two alliances be broken. IMO ISS has accomplished some truely amazing things in the area of gaining 'neutral' access to various 0.0 regions. It is a sad fact of the game.. that game mechanics cannot really help in keeping alt spies out of such alliances so that these kinds of deals may exist. Alts 4tl Lightbringer Intergalactic - CEOLightbringer Intergalactic Corp Website
Serilla
Posted - 2005.11.22 07:58:00 -
[86 ]
only way to even combat alts that i know of is to require a screenshot, and only give them 5 minutes or less to get it to your email. But it still cannot stop the prepared. Screenshot of logon i mean. It would help if it showed GMT time on logon screen. Then you could verify with GMT time as well as recent news. Lightbringer Intergalactic - CEOLightbringer Intergalactic Corp Website
Robert Dobbs
Posted - 2005.11.22 08:08:00 -
[87 ]
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! What say you to that, BoB? Eh?
Lilan Kahn
Posted - 2005.11.22 08:09:00 -
[88 ]
Originally by: Robert Dobbs RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! What say you to that, BoB? Eh? my mom can beat your dad, and my dad eats solid iron bars for lunch ! Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Kinsy
Posted - 2005.11.22 08:22:00 -
[89 ]
\o/ Does this mean we will see more BoB guys in haulers?
Hi'Ryan Greetos
Posted - 2005.11.22 08:36:00 -
[90 ]
<sarcasm> Good good Those stupid carebears deserved this! BoB is almighty and they deserve to be king of EVEs. Heck, let them to decide new patches! BoB Battleship that will be like Jove BS but with more Pwnage . </sarcasm> .. it didn't take so long for PvP trigger happy people to destroy something truly unique and wonderful on EVE .. but we all know BoB so it souldn't be suprise that much. Hope you ISS can find a new home and forget those killboard w***ees.
Nelson Vandermark
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:20:00 -
[91 ]
Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal. But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics.
SkaffenAmtiskaw
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:24:00 -
[92 ]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership, but than again not everyone cheats in this game. Is that a spurious BoB-are-devs-and-GMs accusation I see before me? Proof please. Oh, there isn't any. Boo Hoo. ______
Juan Andalusian
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:31:00 -
[93 ]
Originally by: Hi'Ryan Greetos <sarcasm> Good good Those stupid carebears deserved this! BoB is almighty and they deserve to be king of EVEs. Heck, let them to decide new patches! BoB Battleship that will be like Jove BS but with more Pwnage . </sarcasm> .. it didn't take so long for PvP trigger happy people to destroy something truly unique and wonderful on EVE .. but we all know BoB so it souldn't be suprise that much. Hope you ISS can find a new home and forget those killboard w***ees. New home? ISS operate over several regions. BoB space wasn't their home any more than any other area they operated in. As for BoB wanting to destroy ISS... you'll find that those destroying that unique and wonderfull entity you speak off are those who use it for spying, logistics and any other reason other than what ISS stands for. So before you post complete crap and make yourself look like a toad in a clown suit better get some proper info. **Pain is meant to be felt**
Leneerra
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:32:00 -
[94 ]
Originally by: Beringe I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you? I think ISS is a good thing, I hope they get their act together and solve their unruly pilot problem before it gets them in more trouble. I am still trying to get some shares, even though there is nothing on information availeble other than a buisness plan and a projection on income. (please find a way to list share transaction prices, and add payed dividents to your site) I think that the sentence ", thus violating the terms of our agreement which stipulated 4 weeks prior notice for changes in contractual terms" should have been left out of their press release. I think this part of their press release calls on people to pass judgement on the other party in the contract. However we cannot pass judgement, because we have not seen the contract and we have not been supllied with a complete documentation of communications on this and related matters. For all we know the problem with the rogue pilots could have been comunicated to ISS over 4 weeks ago, and what has happened this week is merely BoB's ending of a dispute that has been going on for a while. I think ISS should simply have been more carefull in wording their press release. Swallowing my ideals.. Nope.. But having ideals does not mean that people, that you think are beneficial to my ideals, can act in a way that I think is wrong or unprofessional. The fact that I speak up does mean I am against their general endavour. But more importandly I tried to state that there are no binding contracts in eve. There is no authority to force them. Only binding transactions exist.
Ikvar
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:33:00 -
[95 ]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal. Lmfao, ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement?! This isn't like some business deal between two suit type office dwelling businesses or whatever. This is an agreement between a very rich, yet very weak group of industrialists and a very large, angry, rabid beaver that can kill the other party within a moment's notice. BOB FTW tbh, I was in Delve when these incidents happen and I'll have to say that if nothing else, ISS were a huge liability in security terms. Originally by: Avon I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
Dark Avatar
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:46:00 -
[96 ]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal. But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership, but than again not everyone cheats in this game. IIRC BoB have said they do not recognise Concord as an authority. What makes you think they will recognise you? Fact1: ISS pilot transgressed against a BOB pilot Fact2: This is gross misconduct Fact3: Gross misconduct null and voids any contract, verbal or written. Fact4: There is no such thing as cheating so long as it exists and is legitimate in the game mechanics Fact5: There is nothing left to say on the matter.
Lilan Kahn
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:51:00 -
[97 ]
erm its stil not OMFG DIE ISS its please get off our land and stay out, besides that take care and stay off our path Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Romulus Maximus
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:52:00 -
[98 ]
ISS were given 3 days grace to clear up and get out. Which i think is very kind,considering what happened. Everyone seems to be overlooking some stuff. They supplied our enemies. They were riddled with alts,all working against us. BoB pilots were attacked by them. IMO,that alone would warrent kos,but still,we gave them 3 days to get out. If they cant control thier alliance,thats not out problem. But we simply cant allow such underhanded doings to continue for 4 weeks. Something that is directly trying to hurt ur alliance needs to end now. And tbh,anyone who says they would have allowed them to continue this action for a full month is a fool. I wish ISS luck in thier future ventures,and hope they can sort out thier problems. Its a shame this has been conducted in such a manor.
Darcuese
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:57:00 -
[99 ]
Good...dont like capitalist anyway...they will ruin human spirit ---------------------------------------------------ALL my words on this forum are my OWN thoughts and opinions
DoctorGonzo
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:58:00 -
[100 ]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal. But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics. That's right, we got our Haxor GM and Dev accounts to spy on the ISS members we weren't happy with, then pressed the 'I win' button that only BoB directors have access too. Damn and you figured that out all by yourself? Do you want to work for us? Perhaps you could draw up an SLA that you could breach then blame us for?Get Your BoB Protection Kit Here
Leyanna
Posted - 2005.11.22 10:01:00 -
[101 ]
Sad...to say the least. Minus the actual decision makers posting alliance statements, this entire thread is just festering with "omg u suck" garbage. So Ill cut the junk and get to the point: ISS: - I find news of security issues concerning. I would be concerned if I were in upper ISS echelon. Best of luck and well wishes addressing this with current and/or future contracts. Hope it works out. - While shareholders in ISS Marginis would of course be undoubtedly concerned should she come under attack, do not show your hand. One's best ally in poker is preventing the opponent from analyzing emotional or behavioral cues. Keep those cards hidden. :) BoB: - While we might not be talking real world decisions and methods of processing decisions, we are still employing specific aspects of our real world surroundings. When you agree to something and sign it, the onus is on either party of any contract to maintain their end. My point is not directed at the moment to whether or not ISS was at fault for security, rather:Notice on Change of Terms We ask that alliances provide 4 weeks notice for any change in negociated terms of access to their space to provide sufficient time for ISS members not satified with any modifications in the agreement to peacefully relocate. While it is up to said alliance to decide if four weeks are granted or not, it would be far wiser to respect the request agreed upon rather than make hasty decisions and breach portions of said contract. Extreme circumstances may be present that I am not aware of; that is certainly none of my business to know but definitely something that could have been brought to ISS attention. In summary? Good luck to both BoB and ISS to reconcile their differences. I can only hope the decisions made in recent history in the heat of the moment will not haunt the remainders of your days. Godspeed and fly safe.
ChefAce
Posted - 2005.11.22 10:32:00 -
[102 ]
Edited by: ChefAce on 22/11/2005 10:32:55 Originally by: Dianabolic We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies Damn the pies and arm the torpedos!!!!! -------------
Ribbo
Posted - 2005.11.22 10:34:00 -
[103 ]
gross misconduct end of. I like ISS, i think they're only a good thing for eve, there time in bob space is up, it's a shame, they made a lot of money out of bob space and were always polite to me in local, kudos for that, however i could have flown a titan through some of they're security holes. Ribbo
Dracorimus
Posted - 2005.11.22 10:50:00 -
[104 ]
Yeah sad indeed, I liked the iss guys, always chatty etc. But what i do not like is knowing that 'rogue' pilots abused the iss to their own ends to cause problems for my alliance, thus the contract is ended. Like has been said before, would you not close a gaping security hole if you saw one ? No more needs to be said. Gl ISS, pity people abused your concept tbh. - For more than a single foe to attempt to fight the Reikoku at once is an act of supreme folley.
Coupo
Posted - 2005.11.22 10:53:00 -
[105 ]
Edited by: Coupo on 22/11/2005 10:53:20 ugh.. YAY i can shoot ISS in 0.0 HURRAH - I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
Avon
Posted - 2005.11.22 11:16:00 -
[106 ]
Edited by: Avon on 22/11/2005 11:16:54 This whole episode depresses me somewhat. I am on record as supporting the goals and ideals of ISS, but is clear they can't live up to them. No alliance would be sensible to allow ISS to open a huge security hole in their space. The whole 4 week issue is really a non-issue. There is a big difference between renegotiating standings, and open hostility. If ISS members are seen to attack an alliance that has opened their space to them, how do you expect them to react? ISS can only be trusted as much as their members. If ISS can not provide assurance that their alliance can not, and will not, be used to infiltrate claimed space, and are seen to be in control of their membership, how can you have faith in them? It isn't a case of punishing those who do wrong. By then it is already too late. ISS are in a postion where trust is everything. To prosper they must be able to secure the confidence of those who claim the space they work in. If they are seen as a security risk they will be dealt with as such, and their wonderful ideals will be worth nothing. Everyday you see people crying that they can't get in to 0.0 The want to enjoy the content without being targets. Then that chance is extended to people like ISS, and they throw it back in your face. ISS were in a position that many players would envy, and they blew it. Shame. ______________________________________________The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Amon Evakrace
Posted - 2005.11.22 11:31:00 -
[107 ]
ROFL
Kin Hanyerec
Posted - 2005.11.22 11:37:00 -
[108 ]
What always amazes me, is all those people that aren't ISS, that havent a clue about what's happening, and come in this thread just to practice rock throwing.
rig0r
Posted - 2005.11.22 11:53:00 -
[109 ]
/emote throws rock at bob. Thank you.
SkaffenAmtiskaw
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:02:00 -
[110 ]
Originally by: rig0r /emote throws rock at bob. Ouch. My eye! I AM BLINDED! Oooh... an eyepatch, I can hide the bruise ______
Ribbo
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:17:00 -
[111 ]
see what you did now rig0r, you made skaff a dirty eyepatch wearing pirate.. damn you.. he was such a pretty pretty boy, now his mother and family will disown him to fend for himself killing mercilesly for such a filthy rock attack... there there skaff, here, have another mutilated minmater leg bone to chew upon :(
The Cosmopolite
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:18:00 -
[112 ]
Originally by: Beringe I also find it disgusting that a member of Jericho decides to speak out against ISS in this matter, since they are doing more to open up space for people than any other alliance in EVE. Swallowed your ideals, have you? One of our ideals is that individual members of Jericho Fraction are entitled to express their personal views in public so long as they do so in a respectful and rational manner. For the avoidance of doubt: Jericho Fraction the corporation has no policy on this issue and regards it as none of our business . Thank you, CosmoVoice of the Freecaptains DirectorVoice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction
Lungorthin
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:31:00 -
[113 ]
Move along and learn from this. ISS, your concept is great, I wish you economic success. BUT the lesson to be learned here is that your openness is a gateway for spies and saboteurs to have unhindered movement rights in what would otherwise be off limit space to them. Harming the host alliance. ISS your immediate task is to enforce stricter guidelines and enhance security in your own ranks. LungorthinIf you want peace... prepare for war.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:32:00 -
[114 ]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite For the avoidance of doubt: Jericho Fraction the corporation has no policy on this issue and regards it as none of our business . Considering something that doesn't concern you to be none of your business? Isn't that illegal on these forums or something?
The Cosmopolite
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:37:00 -
[115 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Considering something that doesn't concern you to be none of your business? Isn't that illegal on these forums or something? Heh. You'd think so wouldn't you? CosmoVoice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction
Zenst
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:49:00 -
[116 ]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark dribbled Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 22/11/2005 09:22:54 After reading that ISS charter, I have to say that Band of brothers is in the wrong here and ISS should be compensated because they broke the SLA agreement which was agreed on by both parties, the fact that ISS brought this to the attention of the EVE-O client basis is a good move and showing that you identified the problem and than resolving the problem has show you to be quite ahead of the game in this debarkal. But than again ISS does not have the connections to use out of game methods to review membership,but than again everyone is bound by ingame mechanics. SLA! Service Level Agreement Oh nooooes. Have you called the BOB watchdog about this and lodged a formal complaint or you going to quote the Genevia convention next! :/. PS did you read this SLA out of game - may want to explain that to ISS; Apparently they dont have the connections to do this :|. On a more posituive side I feel that your talants are wasted and you should run for local polatician as you said much but told me nothing. Qualities that go hand in hand with such a role. /me awaits copies of signed SLA's, TOC's and ITP's
Blydchyld
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:51:00 -
[117 ]
Edited by: Blydchyld on 22/11/2005 12:53:51 Gl all. I LIKE ARK! The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me
Wrok
Posted - 2005.11.22 12:51:00 -
[118 ]
ISS JUST DOES"NT WANNA BE TARGETS THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND AREAS THEY FEEL SAFE IN WELL AHAHAHAHA TAKE LIKE A MAN? OR IN THIS CASE A CHARACTER!!
Snake Jankins
Posted - 2005.11.22 13:14:00 -
[119 ]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 22/11/2005 13:14:10 Perhaps they need some internal security devision with their best and most loyal pilots. Reminds me of NPC corps now. Anyway I don't think it's the right time that people jump on the bandwaggon and throw ISS out of their space. Imho this is a thing between BoB and ISS in the first place. I'm not aware of any problems with ISS in our neighborhood. Ok, they have or had some trouble with RAT, but that speaks for them. ___________ 'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.'
Nafri
Posted - 2005.11.22 13:35:00 -
[120 ]
Originally by: Wrok ISS JUST DOES"NT WANNA BE TARGETS THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND AREAS THEY FEEL SAFE IN WELL AHAHAHAHA TAKE LIKE A MAN? OR IN THIS CASE A CHARACTER!! Shm, you need a chill-pill?
Elfaen Ethenwe
Posted - 2005.11.22 13:59:00 -
[121 ]
What amuses me about this is the people talking about contracts as if they are enforceable. ISS have no teeth other than merc. (thinks back to Conin vs ISS and the spanking we gave them) BoB is teh soverign power in their area. If they had decided to kill ISS and steal their stuff etc who in EVE would of stepped forward and attacked BoB for it ? nobody If ISS feel agreived by all this then they can file a complaint in the eve way.. ie war dec or high mercs to war dec. hmmmm I just thoght... ISS will have to pass through some dangerous space on their way out :)
Rod Blaine
Posted - 2005.11.22 14:08:00 -
[122 ]
ISS is relatively new and needs to learn. The lessons they should take from here is not about needing a military force or not, because they don't need one, that's not an issue at hand at all. The lesson they need to learn that a bunch of corps do not an alliance make, and never can. A bunch of corps is no partner any alliance will deal with. Your organisation need further improvement and maturing to evolve. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Serenity Steele
Posted - 2005.11.22 14:21:00 -
[123 ]
Thanks for all the feedback and comments. Many amusing and many valuable. For me, the most telling part of the contract termination is BoB promptly approaching the ISS member corporations in Period Basis to enter a direct contract to stay. (aka. The very same coporations BoB accused of containing spies & sabeteurs) We wish those corps the best of luck with BoB, as per our Proposal to alliances :As you get to know the local ISS corporations operating in your region, it is natural that you will want some of those members to join your alliance or corporation. The ISS fully supports this. Screenshots
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.22 14:37:00 -
[124 ]
Originally by: Serenity Steele For me, the most telling part of the contract termination is BoB promptly approaching the ISS member corporations in Period Basis to enter a direct contract to stay. (aka. The very same coporations BoB accused of containing spies & sabeteurs) Wrong. The point of ISS getting kicked out of Delve were the numerous amount of ISS corps that were showing up that weren't supposed to be there. Before I founded my alliance to make standings (and wars) easier to sort out, there'd be at least one new ISS corp showing up in BoB space every week. Spies are much easier to deal with on a per-corp basis, in addition to the fact that you don't have to deal with incompetent higher-ups. Since the intel matters not now, I'm going to explain exactly how we know your security procedures are lax. Before we even declared war, as a test of your supposed "internal security" we planted three spies in three different ISS corps. You know how long it took those spies to get hangar access and more than marginal responisbilities? Two days, tops. Our characters are out of the alliance now, as our war has expired as intended and we've proved our point with the war, however you need to consider an alliance-wide strict recruitment policy, just like any other 0.0 alliance. If you want to play in someone else's back yard, you'd better make sure you're doing your best to placate them.
Serenity Steele
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:09:00 -
[125 ]
Right. The solution to the issue you of wandering ISS pilots in period basis, we agreed with BoB in weeks prior: Set neutral standing to <ISS>, and implement <BoB>:[ISS Corp] standings. In hindsight we apparently needed to follow-up with BoB on this action. The spies OSNAP succesfully inserted to ISS member corps illustrates the exact issue BoB failed to address by terminating the contract with the ISS, and then taking on ISS corporations: Individual corp security. On the whole, we will be tightening security on two levels: 1) Member corporation pilots: Not as an obsticle for joining, but to assist our Member CEOs with tools to vet their own pilots and reduce the inherent in-game risks for their corporations. 2) Access to host alliance space: As described above is a workable method if 1) is in place.Screenshots
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:34:00 -
[126 ]
Well you've got one point, but I feel the other has been lost with the whole spy fiasco and needs to be reiterated. ISS memeber conduct needs to be reviewed as well, because what we saw in Delve and Period Basis was appalling to say the least. As partners/guests of BoB, we helped defend claimed regions where possible. Included in this task was making sure that "sponsored" (or pet, or whatever you'd like to call them) corps didn't get in the way too much. All non-alliance corps were supposed to stay in Period Basis unless travelling through Delve to/from Aridia or Querious. This arrangement worked well for a couple of months, there were very few incidents where ISS where mining or npcing in Delve and asked kindly to leave - then escorted to their destination. However, as time progressed, a number of ISS began consistently encroaching on Delve. When asked to leave, ISS members began mouthing off in local or ignoring us completely. Thus, we stepped up agressive action against those offending members. The point I'm trying to make here, without extending the story, is that ISS needs to be respectful of who has the guns. Also, some 0.0 conduct such as travelling routes in haulers with no instas/afterburners needs to be looked at, but I don't really feel like bringing that up. The concept of ISS is good, the execution has been mediocre at best.
Man Upright
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:35:00 -
[127 ]
Maybe instead of posting with such a tearful pity party aura, you should have posted with an attitude of gratitude. Gratitude that you were given 3 days at all and weren't simply bent over and dismantled without notification for being at fault in this matter. I think you probably did the worst thing you could have done by posting at all. Silly pacifists.
j0sephine
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:36:00 -
[128 ]
"The spies OSNAP succesfully inserted to ISS member corps illustrates the exact issue BoB failed to address by terminating the contract with the ISS, and then taking on ISS corporations: Individual corp security." ... this, just couple posts after your very own post which said: "For me, the most telling part of the contract termination is BoB promptly approaching the ISS member corporations in Period Basis to enter a direct contract to stay. (aka. The very same coporations BoB accused of containing spies & sabeteurs) " You were given offer to continue the contract in form which would allow you to control much better any possible security breaches, i.e. the part which caused the original contract to be cancelled. Yet, somehow BoB 'failed to address the exact issue' even though they extended an offer to you which did exactly that? This leaving aside the whole part why is it BoB that should be addressing security issues of your member corporation in the first place, as opposed to say, ISS management...
Burzon
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:43:00 -
[129 ]
I think there has been disucssion enough on the given issue. For the poster who said we should have shown gratitude ... be advised to read my posting where i clearly say "thank you BoB". In addition to this there might have been flaws in executing security and other issues around the contract, but i would not entirely focus this problem towards the ISS. From what i have seen (and i am a member of senior ISS management) communication, or better the lack of it was the main problem regarding the situation. Let it be said that ISS senior management (Count, Serenity and to some extent me) is very serious when it comes to charter violations and we have exspelled more then one member and corp due to breaches of the charter. With that said i would like to exsplicitly thank BoB again for the time that we were able to spend in Period Basis as we have realy enjoyed staying there and as you meet at least twice in your life let it be said that ISS senior management has no ill feelings towards BoB and that we are always willing to discuss problems. BurzonCEO PAX Interstellar Sales Director, ISS
magickangaroo
Posted - 2005.11.22 15:49:00 -
[130 ]
Edited by: magickangaroo on 22/11/2005 15:51:26 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: WeLoveYouLongTime Its really not a good idea to fall out with one of the biggest alliance killers in the game - especially when you have a 40bil outpost toy.. ISS doesn't *own* that toy, it just runs it. It's owned by the shareholders, many of whom are significant high-up guys in major alliances, who would be, shall we say, displeased if it was under serious attack. oh doooood that sounds so much like a challenge Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Blacklight ...and you think we couldn't square that away first? For all I know, some of those shareholders are IN BoB. Besides, it wouldn't be a lot of use to anyone other than ISS, it's purely a trade hub. Owned by a regional-claiming alliance, it's not going to function as much of a trade hub, is it? so um.. do u think the bob and bob friends would have a bigger share in the outpost if we took it over or less.......
Hellraiza666
Posted - 2005.11.22 16:03:00 -
[131 ]
some people treat this game WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too seriously... contracts and legal stuf... its a game, get over it. -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up...
SkaffenAmtiskaw
Posted - 2005.11.22 16:03:00 -
[132 ]
Originally by: magickangaroo Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Jherek Cornelian mmmmmmmm pies I feel violated So what's new? ... Cough, Blackpool, cough!! injokes 4tw Yeah. This one doesn't really stand up in public. ______
Cell Satimo
Posted - 2005.11.22 16:09:00 -
[133 ]
Edited by: Cell Satimo on 22/11/2005 16:12:02 Originally by: j0sephine "The spies OSNAP succesfully inserted to ISS member corps illustrates the exact issue BoB failed to address by terminating the contract with the ISS, and then taking on ISS corporations: Individual corp security." ... this, just couple posts after your very own post which said: "For me, the most telling part of the contract termination is BoB promptly approaching the ISS member corporations in Period Basis to enter a direct contract to stay. (aka. The very same coporations BoB accused of containing spies & sabeteurs) " .. It is straightforward to understand: 1) BoB think ISS Corp Pilots security risk. 2) BoB think security risk of ISS Corp Pilots too big 3) BoB ask ISS to leave 4) BoB ask ISS Corp Pilots to stay. 5) BoB has same pilots in BoB space. >> 1) What we need to do now is sort out the remaining pets in Period Basis.
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.22 16:47:00 -
[134 ]
Originally by: Romulus Maximus ISS were given 3 days grace to clear up and get out. Which i think is very kind,considering what happened. Everyone seems to be overlooking some stuff. They supplied our enemies. They were riddled with alts,all working against us. BoB pilots were attacked by them. IMO,that alone would warrent kos,but still,we gave them 3 days to get out. If they cant control thier alliance,thats not out problem. But we simply cant allow such underhanded doings to continue for 4 weeks. Something that is directly trying to hurt ur alliance needs to end now. And tbh,anyone who says they would have allowed them to continue this action for a full month is a fool. I wish ISS luck in thier future ventures,and hope they can sort out thier problems. Its a shame this has been conducted in such a manor. All this divel coming from an alliance that boasts that it has it's own spy alts all over the place? This coming an alliance that used/s spy alts to steal POS's and ships? You have got to be kidding right, BoB the injured party? You do the very same thing to your enemies and call it sound tactics. But when the hens come home to roost its damn near called cheating, then you break your own agreement of terms for ending the contract and call yourselves justified. I do think that people should make note of your conduct in business dealings, and if Xelas' leadership has a ounce of common sense they should be paying attention too. Moral of story? Handle a snake long enough and you will get bitten <ok BoBies I am read to update my bio with all your new names for me > Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
NAFnist
Posted - 2005.11.22 16:51:00 -
[135 ]
ah BOB finally came to their senses. ISS should tighten up, they claim to be neutral, but that is not the case as many said beforehand. If they had strict rules regarding recruitment it might work.
ponieus
Posted - 2005.11.22 17:13:00 -
[136 ]
Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Romulus Maximus ISS were given 3 days grace to clear up and get out. Which i think is very kind,considering what happened. Everyone seems to be overlooking some stuff. They supplied our enemies. They were riddled with alts,all working against us. BoB pilots were attacked by them. IMO,that alone would warrent kos,but still,we gave them 3 days to get out. If they cant control thier alliance,thats not out problem. But we simply cant allow such underhanded doings to continue for 4 weeks. Something that is directly trying to hurt ur alliance needs to end now. And tbh,anyone who says they would have allowed them to continue this action for a full month is a fool. I wish ISS luck in thier future ventures,and hope they can sort out thier problems. Its a shame this has been conducted in such a manor. All this divel coming from an alliance that boasts that it has it's own spy alts all over the place? This coming an alliance that used/s spy alts to steal POS's and ships? You have got to be kidding right, BoB the injured party? You do the very same thing to your enemies and call it sound tactics. But when the hens come home to roost its damn near called cheating, then you break your own agreement of terms for ending the contract and call yourselves justified. I do think that people should make note of your conduct in business dealings, and if Xelas' leadership has a ounce of common sense they should be paying attention too. Moral of story? Handle a snake long enough and you will get bitten <ok BoBies I am read to update my bio with all your new names for me > BIG difference there hoochie.. 1. What we did in the past was in war and was directed at our enemys. 2. ISS stand for a nuteral stance towards eve to better the econmey in there eyes yadda yadd yadda. when you fly the ISS flag and shoot at blue well.. umm yeah.. see the point..
Lungorthin
Posted - 2005.11.22 17:14:00 -
[137 ]
Originally by: Hellraiza666 some people treat this game WAYYYYYYY [manually truncated] too seriously... contracts and legal stuf... its a game, get over it. you nut your extra long post ruins my table rendering on my Firefox LungorthinIf you want peace... prepare for war.
Agil Scout
Posted - 2005.11.22 17:17:00 -
[138 ]
Originally by: Man Upright ***SNIPPED FOR SPACE*** HMM, what lamer got your named changed for ****s sake, when wiil this end. OH mods please sort this forums ourt someone seems to have made it very wide and hard on the eyes. ------------ [IAC] Teh best noob corp in the world. I R AN ALT FEAR ME!
SirMolle
Posted - 2005.11.22 17:48:00 -
[139 ]
Arguing? Contract wac breached, therefore void and terminated directly. 3 days was given as a gesture of good will. If anyone thinks we would let ISS fly around for 4 more weeks after ISS blatantly has failed to fulfill their side of the contract... duh? BoB will not let ISS into BoB space anymore, that is all. You can scream "NOT FAIR!!!!!!" until you turn blue or purple. ISS is no longer welcome due to known reasons. If anyone from ISS wants to pursue this further, youll have to talk to my tachyons, this case is closed.
ProphetGuru
Posted - 2005.11.22 17:51:00 -
[140 ]
Originally by: The Hooch This coming an alliance that used/s spy alts to steal POS's and ships? You have got to be kidding right, BoB the injured party? You do the very same thing to your enemies and call it sound tactics. We never cried cheating. Yes we use spies against our enemies. Yes it is a tactic. Yes, we try to mitigate the use of spies against us. What self respecting aliance wouldn't? By your line of logic, because we use ammo in our guns, we shouldn't defend ourselves if someone in the whole of Eve were to attack us using ammo cuz omg we used it too... If you are going to attempt to make a rational argument against us, at least do us the courtesy of thinking your argument thru, and at least TRYING to make it valid and logical. C'mon, at least TRY. Man the quality of feedback in here has gotten so bad these days. Where's the Reclamimer, Zelota and Nec when you need em. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.22 18:25:00 -
[141 ]
Originally by: ProphetGuru Originally by: The Hooch This coming an alliance that used/s spy alts to steal POS's and ships? You have got to be kidding right, BoB the injured party? You do the very same thing to your enemies and call it sound tactics. We never cried cheating. Yes we use spies against our enemies. Yes it is a tactic. Yes, we try to mitigate the use of spies against us. What self respecting aliance wouldn't? By your line of logic, because we use ammo in our guns, we shouldn't defend ourselves if someone in the whole of Eve were to attack us using ammo cuz omg we used it too... If you are going to attempt to make a rational argument against us, at least do us the courtesy of thinking your argument thru, and at least TRYING to make it valid and logical. C'mon, at least TRY. Man the quality of feedback in here has gotten so bad these days. Where's the Reclamimer, Zelota and Nec when you need em. No need to make it personal bud. Remember: 1. Eve = game, therefore not real 2. Posting in forums = Not real as well 3. Hooch making comments = **** stick stiring pot, therefore again not real 4. Rational disscussion in public gaming forums = Silly expectations 5. Making it personal = Bad forum Mmmk? PS Molle, you broke the terms of your contract as well by not living up to the terms you agreed to for ending the relationship, unless you had the immediate termination thingy all ready in place, which appears you didn't. You guys may be the best in PvP'rs and have great combat tactics in the game, but you lack in making commitments your willing to live up to, even if it costs you to live up to them. Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
Rod Blaine
Posted - 2005.11.22 18:45:00 -
[142 ]
Eeerh, to my knwoledge we have yet to not live up to our commitments even once... You can troll threads all day yet fail to come up with a clear cut example of that. There were no commitments, like Molle said, contract breached = no more contract = no more rules other then what we choose to set, period. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
patslimboyfat
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:02:00 -
[143 ]
I just want us to love each other!!1 Although not real life, my missus is giving me jip coz im giving her jip coz of all this ISS-BoB thing! Please can we leave the whole issue and work this all out over a can of boddingtons? Sponser me for a naked skydive!
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:03:00 -
[144 ]
Originally by: patslimboyfat I just want us to love each other!!1 Although not real life, my missus is giving me jip coz im giving her jip coz of all this ISS-BoB thing! Please can we leave the whole issue and work this all out over a can of boddingtons? Bring a bottle of Smirnoff Black Label, and you may have a deal.
patslimboyfat
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:07:00 -
[145 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: patslimboyfat I just want us to love each other!!1 Although not real life, my missus is giving me jip coz im giving her jip coz of all this ISS-BoB thing! Please can we leave the whole issue and work this all out over a can of boddingtons? Bring a bottle of Smirnoff Black Label, and you may have a deal. Yep no problem. I love my corp, I love the alliance also. I have not been able to play the game for a week now coz I have been scared of being blown up all because of some idiot who left the air lock open (I wasnt around when the sh1te hit the fan) I wanna play this game to its advantage, and this is for everyone "We Pay our hard earned cash to play this game" If we dont play, we lose out. I love EVE to pieces its like another life. But not when all this is going down. Sponser me for a naked skydive!
dantes inferno
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:12:00 -
[146 ]
reading this is quite funny how some people here make BOB sound like the villans of the piece. ask yourselves is there a single alliance in the game which would leave ISS in their space if they are a security risk?(just look at what happend to xelas for having a NAP with bob with made them a risk) if so their fools....so no BOB are not the villans of the piece, ar ISS?? no their not either a bit foolish for not having good enough internal security which if not fixed will be their undoing..if their is a villain in this tale it is the people who place their alts in ISS to spy on BOB and created the problem in the first place (and it wouldnt suprise me if it is the same people who are cring BOB ARE DA EBIL!!!11!) its their actions which have placed ISS in this situation...its their actions which if continued which will lead to ISS undoing. It amazes me the amount of people who will leap on to the forums to flame bob no matter the cirumstances (even if the post was BOB donating all their assets to starving children you would still get the usual suspect flaming them for it), though im sure that BOB look at it as a measure of their success that they are so hated...but the people who act in this manner do look quite foolish _____http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/dantesinferno80.png Only one image allowed in the signature field. Mail us if you have questions -Garik
patslimboyfat
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:17:00 -
[147 ]
Originally by: dantes inferno reading this is quite funny how some people here make BOB sound like the villans of the piece. ask yourselves is there a single alliance in the game which would leave ISS in their space if they are a security risk?(just look at what happend to xelas for having a NAP with bob with made them a risk) if so their fools....so no BOB are not the villans of the piece, ar ISS?? no their not either a bit foolish for not having good enough internal security which if not fixed will be their undoing..if their is a villain in this tale it is the people who place their alts in ISS to spy on BOB and created the problem in the first place (and it wouldnt suprise me if it is the same people who are cring BOB ARE DA EBIL!!!11!) its their actions which have placed ISS in this situation...its their actions which if continued which will lead to ISS undoing. It amazes me the amount of people who will leap on to the forums to flame bob no matter the cirumstances (even if the post was BOB donating all their assets to starving children you would still get the usual suspect flaming them for it), though im sure that BOB look at it as a measure of their success that they are so hated...but the people who act in this manner do look quite foolish Sorry I wasnt having a go at anyone. It gets so serious, and its been said in previous posts, its only a game. Obviously some people are enjoying this some others like myself are not. Thats all! BoB from what I have heard are awesome. So is ISS. So is any other alliances!!! They all have there strong points. Peace ppl! Roll another fat one! Sponser me for a naked skydive!
Kara Kaprica
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:21:00 -
[148 ]
Originally by: SirMolle If anyone from ISS wants to pursue this further, youll have to talk to my tachyons, this case is closed. rofl. Unfortunatly having an alliance without strict member induction procedures, flying around an alliance with many enemies space, is a recipe for disaster. Be thankful you got 3 days to clear your stuff out, I have alot of gear in those stations in PB^^
Clone 0006
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:44:00 -
[149 ]
I think BoB is just full of ****
Mitch Taylor
Posted - 2005.11.22 19:56:00 -
[150 ]
Originally by: Dianabolic We notified ISS of pilots that were quite obviouslys pies and saboteurs. typos for the win... /emote waves at bob
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.22 20:34:00 -
[151 ]
I refuse to edit my post. Get all the pie jokes in whilst you still have stomachs Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.22 20:51:00 -
[152 ]
Originally by: Dianabolic I refuse to edit my post. Get all the pie jokes in whilst you still have stomachs Just so you know, I saw that and did manage to control myself just this once. Your a good sport Dianabolic... Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
DeClair
Posted - 2005.11.22 20:52:00 -
[153 ]
the end of every eve war is that one side cant buy new ships, so they have to stop till they get enough money. most time in this moment the alliance breaks into peaces and corps leave. i think the alliance with the most money can stand every war till the other alliance is at the end. fight with mercs or not they only need the money to pay enough mercs instead of ships. so, it seems that ISS is the strongest alliance in game, because they have the most money. they can destroy bob, because of all the money they have. so, bob should be carefull and there are some warnings given from ISS shareholders. maybe we will see the strongest pvp alliance die due to a war with the peacefulliest alliance like ISS. it is really interesting ! - i am only a neutral mission runner, so i speak only for myself -
CLEISTHENES2
Posted - 2005.11.22 21:02:00 -
[154 ]
Edited by: CLEISTHENES2 on 22/11/2005 21:02:11 Originally by: DeClair the end of every eve war is that one side cant buy new ships, so they have to stop till they get enough money. most time in this moment the alliance breaks into peaces and corps leave. Rabble Rabble Rabble - i am only a neutral mission runner, so i speak only for myself - Maybe you should stick to running missions cos you haven;t got a clue...
Archilies
Posted - 2005.11.22 21:07:00 -
[155 ]
blimey, gross misconduct, breach of contract, remind me of uni I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception
Snake Jankins
Posted - 2005.11.22 21:09:00 -
[156 ]
Originally by: DeClair i think the alliance with the most money can stand every war till the other alliance is at the end. fight with mercs or not they only need the money to pay enough mercs instead of ships. so, it seems that ISS is the strongest alliance in game, because they have the most money. they can destroy bob, because of all the money they have. so, bob should be carefull and there are some warnings given from ISS shareholders. I doubt it. Although I agree that it would be interesting. But in the end I think it's better, if we don't see such a war. It might lead to a big chaos with probably a lot of parties involved. I think it's somehow possible that it would be rather become the end of ISS, because they are rather a lose aliance and trading corps usually don't like to be under fire. Or that they loose their neutral status and have to join one ore the other side to still keep some 0.0 access. Not much to win in such a war except interesting daily news in these forums. ___________ 'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.'
Kyguard
Posted - 2005.11.22 21:31:00 -
[157 ]
Edited by: Kyguard on 22/11/2005 21:32:51 Quote: They supplied our enemies. N.A.G.A. has been supplying your enemies with HACs and T2 items, might be time to go have one at them too... Who knows, could justify a red alert security concern -- God is on the side with the best artillery
DeathForMeh
Posted - 2005.11.22 21:45:00 -
[158 ]
Seems simple to me ISS violates contract, they fix the situation and do the best they can after **** has hit the fan. But so what its their bad if bob wants to be a hard-ass about it its there choice. -------------------------------------------- X I was here
ProphetGuru
Posted - 2005.11.22 22:13:00 -
[159 ]
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 22/11/2005 22:14:42 Originally by: DeClair i think the alliance with the most money can stand every war till the other alliance is at the end. fight with mercs or not they only need the money to pay enough mercs instead of ships. so, it seems that ISS is the strongest alliance in game, because they have the most money. I understand what you are trying to say, however this line of reasoning has been used by various corps and alliances since heh, beta... Evol and for that matter, many many other corps/alliances have shown this to be wrong multiple times. ps. TheHooch Who's worked up? Nothing is personal here, I simply stated my opinion that your line of reasoning was full of holes. I also commented that the quality of the anti Bob propaganda, and anti Evol propaganda, is not where it used to be. edit-spelling Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Shere Khaane
Posted - 2005.11.22 22:38:00 -
[160 ]
Please clarify, what exactly is the 'security issue' with some ISS pilots in BoB space? Please, anyone with an interceptor can fly up there, map bookmarks, make safespots, and check local. As for hauling things up, I seriously doubt it. Whats the point? To refit ships un-noticed you would need an entire POS, or risk docking in npc stations, where you can buy modules anyway. So...ammo caches, great, thats going to win a war. Anyone who wants to take Delve and PB is going to need several frieghter's full of ships and POS's. NOT something that would go un-noticed in ANY alliance. And to the person who said that everyone in this thread was blaming BoB, i suggest you re-read it. It's been literally ganked by BoB pilots. You guys might not be the kings of eve, but you're getting there on the forums
Nuala Reece
Posted - 2005.11.23 00:31:00 -
[161 ]
Edited by: Nuala Reece on 23/11/2005 00:31:32 Originally by: The HoochPS Molle, you broke the terms of your contract as well by not living up to the terms you agreed to for ending the relationship, unless you had the immediate termination thingy all ready in place, which appears you didn't. You guys may be the best in PvP'rs and have great combat tactics in the game, but you lack in making commitments your willing to live up to, even if it costs you to live up to them. Kind of the point I was making before I was lambasted for replying to an issue which was first raised by a BoB member (Yay for the art of reasoned inquiry and discussion ) I'm not questioning BoB's right to enforce their security in their claimed space, or to terminate agreements they have made - but pointing out the importance of reputation. BoB has a deserved reputation for being skilled fighters, but threads like this contribute to a growing reputation of arrogance which isn't helped by statements by some BoB pilots suggesting (or appearing to suggest) that they don't need to abide by the agreements they make. Clearly there's more to this story than both sides are revealing, but BoB's reputation seems to be suffering the most - who will trust an agreement with BoB if the alliance develops a reputation of disregarding their agreements or not caring enough about them in the first place? Maybe ISS needs to work at improving their internal security, but maybe BoB needs to work at paying more attention to the terms of the contracts they make so in future they can be ended between the involved parties without becoming a big public spectacle?Be Free Starlancers
Kahn Moquil
Posted - 2005.11.23 00:42:00 -
[162 ]
As a neutral observer in this, I fail to see what the fuss is all about. BoB and ISS had an agreement. Apparently ISS broke this agreement, by having security holes and thus allowing BoB's enemies to spy in their space. Then an ISS pilot opened fire on a BoB pilot. So what it looks like to me, is that ISS was the first to fail on the agreement, so whatever terms were there were null and void from that moment. This 4 week notice that everyone keeps going on about, would apply if BoB wanted to terminate the agreement without their having been any other reason than that they didn't like the situation anymore. It meant nothing once ISS broke the agreement. Ofcourse I don't have access to the exact wording of their deal, but anyway, this is what it looks like to me. Now what this thread needs to become really interesting, is a bit of good old conspiracy theory. What if BoB didn't like the deal anymore, but were looking for a way to get out of it, without having to wait 4 weeks? They could've planted some alts in ISS, make it look like they were spying, and then to spice things up, have one of them engage a BoB pilot. Not saying that's what happened, but this thread really needs a pinch of conspiracy
Rukaz
Posted - 2005.11.23 00:43:00 -
[163 ]
First, I've said on another thread that I don't often post on these forums... well, more than a few beers down the neck and that goes to pot. Second, I've flew against BoB and with BoB so I got a pretty good idea of what they are like and what they are not like. Thirdly, as enemy or friend I'm yet to encounter a time BoB haven't kept their word. Finally, if a contractor of BoB's is aiding terrorists its beyond gross misconduct. I'm surprised BoB didn't make IIS -10 on the spot. In fact, its a testament to BoB that they gave IIS time to withdraw at all. Ruk "Hey baby, wanna see my spaceship?"
Dog Nob
Posted - 2005.11.23 04:40:00 -
[164 ]
Originally by: Rukaz Finally, if a contractor of BoB's is aiding terrorists its beyond gross misconduct. I'm surprised BoB didn't make IIS -10 on the spot. In fact, its a testament to BoB that they gave IIS time to withdraw at all. Ruk ditto.
Baun
Posted - 2005.11.23 06:23:00 -
[165 ]
Originally by: Rukaz Thirdly, as enemy or friend I'm yet to encounter a time BoB haven't kept their word. Does NO ONE remember when Evol made up a fake story about being shot at first (one that was disproven by their own killboards), entered Fountain to do some blue on blue pillaging (killed 50-60 people who had them set to blue and had done nothing to break any agreement) and then lied to ISS to promote their story as the truth? To talk about them as if they are residents of an ivory tower is laughable. No one should be under this impression. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Romulus Maximus
Posted - 2005.11.23 09:07:00 -
[166 ]
Originally by: Kyguard Edited by: Kyguard on 22/11/2005 21:32:51 Quote: They supplied our enemies. N.A.G.A. has been supplying your enemies with HACs and T2 items, might be time to go have one at them too... NAGA dont have an arangement with BOB, to live in BOB space. NAGA dont fly frieghters into BOB space to supply our enemies. Please stop taking stuff out of context.
Furytham
Posted - 2005.11.23 09:42:00 -
[167 ]
is this still going on ?? it¦s a done deal..nothing you can do about it. Go home...
Furytham
Posted - 2005.11.23 09:49:00 -
[168 ]
Originally by: SirMolle I guess this is true..
Mextor
Posted - 2005.11.23 10:10:00 -
[169 ]
I have one thing to add to this, i personaly have seen ISS helping OSNAP's and BoB'S enemies when wars have been going on with other alliances.
Shere Khaane
Posted - 2005.11.23 10:38:00 -
[170 ]
Originally by: Romulus Maximus Originally by: Kyguard Edited by: Kyguard on 22/11/2005 21:32:51 Quote: They supplied our enemies. N.A.G.A. has been supplying your enemies with HACs and T2 items, might be time to go have one at them too... NAGA dont have an arangement with BOB, to live in BOB space. NAGA dont fly frieghters into BOB space to supply our enemies. Please stop taking stuff out of context. My question still stands...how exactly can some alts in ISS get away with transporting freighters into Delve? And what purpose would it serve?
Furytham
Posted - 2005.11.23 10:55:00 -
[171 ]
Originally by: Shere Khaane Originally by: Romulus Maximus Originally by: Kyguard Edited by: Kyguard on 22/11/2005 21:32:51 Quote: They supplied our enemies. N.A.G.A. has been supplying your enemies with HACs and T2 items, might be time to go have one at them too... NAGA dont have an arangement with BOB, to live in BOB space. NAGA dont fly frieghters into BOB space to supply our enemies. Please stop taking stuff out of context. My question still stands...how exactly can some alts in ISS get away with transporting freighters into Delve? And what purpose would it serve? cause they were blue under contract agreement ?!? hauling supplys for the enemy ?!? just a logic conclusion ! Now...stop it. You don¦t need to know everything.
Elfaen Ethenwe
Posted - 2005.11.23 13:35:00 -
[172 ]
lol @ iss being most powerful alliance ... personally I would of made iss -10 and ganked them till they glow, then shot them in the dark
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.23 14:40:00 -
[173 ]
Originally by: DeClair i think the alliance with the most money can stand every war till the other alliance is at the end. fight with mercs or not they only need the money to pay enough mercs instead of ships. so, it seems that ISS is the strongest alliance in game, because they have the most money. they can destroy bob, because of all the money they have. Whether this be right or wrong, there is no intent on the part of any of the ISS management to declare war on BoB, or to hire anybody else to do so. ISS has only ever, and will only ever, hire mercenaries to fight people who have declared war on *us*. We have no interest in initiating hostilities; as an alliance that needs friends with which to work, why would we? The issue here is not that the ISS, *as an alliance*, was conducting anti-BoB activities in their space; if it were, BoB would have gone to war with us on the spot,, I'm sure. It's one of security, in that there were alts gaining access and doing so. Security holes, we can attempt to plug, and any advice from BoB on how to do so would be welcomed. The point about the Marginis outpost is a general one, and not intended as a threat to BoB. ISS is not a PvP alliance, as everyone well knows; a large part of the Marginis outpost defence plan is that it's part-owned by a number of people who *are* PvP alliances, and they wouldn't want to see their investment taken over by pirate groups and random gankers. I don't think BoB count as either type.
FowlPlayChiken
Posted - 2005.11.23 15:17:00 -
[174 ]
any of that pie left?
Dianabolic
Posted - 2005.11.23 16:01:00 -
[175 ]
I ate all the pies. Baldour - one of the key things you guys can do to secure your alliance against alt abuse is to move people away from areas they may have enemies and / or desire to have a "blue square" around them to aid in their spying. You should also insist on pilots that have references from people that you trust. Above all, however, due to the unique nature of your alliance, you should have an alliance police force and make sure that each corp has a member with the responsibility for ensuring that they are not being "used" by people to the detriment of themselves OR your alliance. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.23 16:03:00 -
[176 ]
Originally by: Shere Khaane My question still stands...how exactly can some alts in ISS get away with transporting freighters into Delve? And what purpose would it serve? Transporting ships, modules, and ammunition from empire to NPC stations in Delve for VC and IMP to work out of. It's really quite simple. And post with your main.
Hellraiza666
Posted - 2005.11.23 16:04:00 -
[177 ]
omg bob made a breach of a game contract, i will see u in court seriously, its a game, shoot who ever the **** u want -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up...
Lilan Kahn
Posted - 2005.11.23 16:53:00 -
[178 ]
Originally by: Spaja Saist Everyone knows BOB is full of egomaniacal sociopaths. your point ? Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Elenia Kheynes
Posted - 2005.11.23 21:43:00 -
[179 ]
Originally by: Spaja Saist Everyone knows BOB is full of egomaniacal sociopaths. Weird it didn't work well between them and me then Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
Kunming
Posted - 2005.11.23 22:33:00 -
[180 ]
Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Wrok ISS JUST DOES"NT WANNA BE TARGETS THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND AREAS THEY FEEL SAFE IN WELL AHAHAHAHA TAKE LIKE A MAN? OR IN THIS CASE A CHARACTER!! Shm, you need a chill-pill? Lmao, I heard valium helps ^^ Anyway gotta love BoB dont u all agree?Website Killboard
ElweSingollo
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:00:00 -
[181 ]
Originally by: Rift Scorn Originally by: Nuala Reece Breach of contract is a pretty serious thing in diplomacy and not the kind of thing that goes unnoticed or is easily forgotten Shooting a pilot of an Alliance that gives you permission to do what you will in there space also is not a thing that goes un-noticed. Ever heard of 'Gross Misconduct', it's written into most standard employment contracts, infact contracts of pretty much any type, and leads to IMMEDIATE dismissal. Shooting a BoB pilot in BoB claimed space, pretty much counts as gross misconduct. Any alliance that can't control it's pilots, is not the type of Alliance that BoB wants in its space. I find it pretty surprising that Molle didn't give the order to immediatley roast any unluckey ISS pilot in PB after the incident. Us foot soldiers were told NOT to fire on ISS until the date ISS were given to remove themselves and their effects, and no one did, because BoB pilots can actually follow rules that are set out. Not to mention the army of alts that ISS houses who's main's are in Alliance with polar views to our. Ummm so can someone explain to me as there seems to be two answers from BOB in regards to this issue WTF have you kicked them for. A)You say that the Alliance are in the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and that is why they were kicked not taking into account the 4 week agreement which was in place for this and other eventualities the being even after they "dealt" with the person involved and as such could have been said to have dealt with it. B)We think ISS is full of Alts so we used this as our excuse to kick them and invalidate our agreement. From all appearances it looks the latter tbh. P.S. how many alts do BOB keep in various other alliances (including no doubt ISS) with a view to intel gathering?
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:09:00 -
[182 ]
Originally by: ElweSingollo Ummm so can someone explain to me as there seems to be two answers from BOB in regards to this issue WTF have you kicked them for. A)You say that the Alliance are in the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and that is why they were kicked not taking into account the 4 week agreement which was in place for this and other eventualities the being even after they "dealt" with the person involved and as such could have been said to have dealt with it. B)We think ISS is full of Alts so we used this as our excuse to kick them and invalidate our agreement. From all appearances it looks the latter tbh. Reading > *. From the first page no less: Originally by: DB Preacher A bunch of nasty people then took advantage of ISS by using alts to haul stuff into Delve, using ISS to watch our shared channels, abusing friendly corps in local and then, finally, attacking friendly corps. Originally by: ElweSingollo P.S. how many alts do BOB keep in various other alliances (including no doubt ISS) with a view to intel gathering? 1,731. dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
ElweSingollo
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:24:00 -
[183 ]
Edited by: ElweSingollo on 24/11/2005 00:25:47 Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: ElweSingollo Ummm so can someone explain to me as there seems to be two answers from BOB in regards to this issue WTF have you kicked them for. A)You say that the Alliance are in the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and that is why they were kicked not taking into account the 4 week agreement which was in place for this and other eventualities the being even after they "dealt" with the person involved and as such could have been said to have dealt with it. B)We think ISS is full of Alts so we used this as our excuse to kick them and invalidate our agreement. From all appearances it looks the latter tbh. Reading > *. From the first page no less: Originally by: DB Preacher A bunch of nasty people then took advantage of ISS by using alts to haul stuff into Delve, using ISS to watch our shared channels, abusing friendly corps in local and then, finally, attacking friendly corps. Originally by: ElweSingollo P.S. how many alts do BOB keep in various other alliances (including no doubt ISS) with a view to intel gathering? 1,731. dbp My point Preacher was merely that dependant on who in BOB is doing the talking and who they are replying to it would appear that one excuse is used or the other or indeed both... so either you guys don't know yourselves, you don't care yourselves, or the full extent of the reasons weren't given to ISS and you were looking to renege on an agreement anyway. But I guess we will never know what your "real" reasons were since a straight question will not get answered just a sacrastic comment in reply, but it is hard going reading something that even from your own guys seems to go like a pinball between those that say one thing and those that say another .
DeClair
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:33:00 -
[184 ]
money rules eve ? i really think so. eve have changed with the new ships and will change with the capital ships comming soon. for example if you have the money to buy some motherships/titans when they come into game, no alliance will have a chance to stop the alliance which can buy as much of that ships as they want. you must only have or hire the pilots to fly them and you can claim every system/area you want in eve. the eve world is changing and will change more. money and the possession of such ships will be more important than fighting skills and large blobs. maybe they do it because the large blobs bring down clusters :-) then in this times iss or other rich alliances will be unstopable for normal pvp alliances which dont have so much money and they will rule with money (motherships, titans, mercs) the eve world order. - its only my opinion -
Ikvar
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:53:00 -
[185 ]
Originally by: DeClair Edited by: DeClair on 24/11/2005 00:42:26 Edited by: DeClair on 24/11/2005 00:36:24 money rules eve ? i really think so. eve have changed with the new ships and will change with the capital ships comming soon. for example if you have the money to buy some motherships/titans when they come into game, no alliance will have a chance to stop the alliance which can buy as much of that ships as they want. you must only have or hire the pilots to fly them and you can claim every system/area you want in eve. the eve world is changing and will change more. money and the possession of such ships will be more important than fighting skills and large blobs. maybe they do it because the large blobs bring down clusters :-) then in this times iss or other rich alliances will be unstopable for normal pvp alliances which dont have so much money and they will rule with money (motherships, titans, mercs) the eve world order. maybe bob sees this coming and tries to stop this seed. look in reallife at the tribes or indians they are better fighters, but they have no chance to fight with knifes and bows against rifles, tanks and airforces. - its only my opinion - Erm, BOB probably have as much if not more money than the ISS Originally by: Avon I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
Cell Satimo
Posted - 2005.11.24 01:10:00 -
[186 ]
Originally by: Spaja Saist Everyone knows BOB is full of egomaniacal sociopaths. My sig deigns to disagree
j0sephine
Posted - 2005.11.24 01:48:00 -
[187 ]
"My point Preacher was merely that dependant on who in BOB is doing the talking and who they are replying to it would appear that one excuse is used or the other or indeed both... so either you guys don't know yourselves, you don't care yourselves, or the full extent of the reasons weren't given to ISS and you were looking to renege on an agreement anyway." This was also addressed on the first page of this thread: "Since when do the rank and file need to know the most intimate details of ever agreement? They don't. Too many people knowing too much leads to too many cooks. That's not how we operate. " DB already said it, but seriously reading > *
Blacklight
Posted - 2005.11.24 02:03:00 -
[188 ]
Well Count hasn't convo'd me so I presume this thread was basically all hot air and a PR stunt because clearly ISS's leadership aren't really interested in our motivations. I think we can kill this now to be honest before the fanbois make their heads explode out of teenage excitement.Eve Blacklight Style
Raem Civrie
Posted - 2005.11.24 02:04:00 -
[189 ]
Hiliarity. The fact is that BoB has no reason to uphold any contracts or agreements once they become unfavourable. Why? There is no-one bigger to police them, they lose nothing by losing face, they don't rely on reputation to survive. What remains is ethics, basically. If BoB is upholding a contract, it's either because it profits them, or because someone would feel bad about terminating it. Now ask yourself. Is BoB's brass going to care, at all? There are some fine people in BoB, and some are probably high-ranking there (I am not intimately familiar with BoB's leading figures, I don't know them personally, nor do I feel the need to) that are decent blokes. But BoB has been relatively unchallenged for too long. I get the feeling that many people that seem to be behind formulating the policies in BoB have long since lost touch with the reality that is normally accepted by the playerbase. (*COUGH*ARIDIA*COUGH*) --- God-King of Genitalia
Rod Blaine
Posted - 2005.11.24 02:24:00 -
[190 ]
Got a cold m8 ? Let me get you some medicine then. Frst will dispense it if you don't mind Anyways, its all m00ot, we dont actively dislike ISS, they prolly dont actively dislike us in general, it's all good. We just dont want em in our space due to some stuff that is generally none of anyones buisiness unless they agree with us, in which case it's irrelevant wether it's any of their buisiness. Time to end a mildy entertaining yet strangely content lacking thread. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Blade Gunner
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:07:00 -
[191 ]
As a designated diplomat for VC I am intrigued by the outline issues of this thread. Who was the VC pilot ? (We have never held any mutual agreement of a formal or informal kind with ISS). Were VC contacted by either party to investigate this matter? Even if we had not confirmed or denied such an allegation it would have presented a solid foundation for either party in this issue by what was or was not said !! Without information it is not possible to make an contributary statement in this matter but it must surely raise issues for both parties in present and past contracts.To straight talk is free, smack talk can be very expensive. the choice is of course yours .
Berneh
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:09:00 -
[192 ]
Is this thread still going ? LOL Count made a post explaining the standing situation with iss and bob and then everyone starts going mental lol. your all funny c\/nts you make me laugh, especially the OMG ITS A BOB THREAD LETS GANK IT people you know who who you are Bern
Kyguard
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:09:00 -
[193 ]
Edited by: Kyguard on 24/11/2005 03:09:35 Nvm, the pure irony of this last page prevents me from posting. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Kunming
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:10:00 -
[194 ]
This is not a matter I could or should comment on, so I wont.. but a lil advise to BoB would be: dont do it like FA back in the day, and try to save the PR face, we all know you'r playing the evil empire trying to take over the universe and its all fine like that, everything else would delute the spirit. Nothing against FA really, but most ppl knew about their shady dealings and when it became public they tried to play the good guy and justify everything. In the end it sadly made them look bad. Just stand up to what you'r doing (its a game after all); you dont want ISS in your space, you have the power to enforce that desicion, case closed. Seriously whats this with all the gross miscunduct mumbo jumbo..Website Killboard
Raem Civrie
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:19:00 -
[195 ]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Got a cold m8 ? Let me get you some medicine then. Frst will dispense it if you don't mind Anyways, its all m00ot, we dont actively dislike ISS, they prolly dont actively dislike us in general, it's all good. We just dont want em in our space due to some stuff that is generally none of anyones buisiness unless they agree with us, in which case it's irrelevant wether it's any of their buisiness. Time to end a mildy entertaining yet strangely content lacking thread. Yeah. What is there to actively dislike? You can't actively dislike someone for their debilitating faults, that's just cruel, innit? --- God-King of Genitalia
Berrik Radhok
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:22:00 -
[196 ]
and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted
Blacklight
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:28:00 -
[197 ]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted You shouldn't talk about ISS like that, they're nice guys.Eve Blacklight Style
David Corbett
Posted - 2005.11.24 03:33:00 -
[198 ]
Edited by: David Corbett on 24/11/2005 03:32:53 nvm.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.24 04:15:00 -
[199 ]
Originally by: Blacklight Well Count hasn't convo'd me so I presume this thread was basically all hot air and a PR stunt because clearly ISS's leadership aren't really interested in our motivations. We were expressly told not to bother. Sirmolle wrote it somewhere a couple of pages up: "Talk to my tachyons. This case is closed."
Berrik Radhok
Posted - 2005.11.24 04:39:00 -
[200 ]
Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Berrik Radhok and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted You shouldn't talk about ISS like that, they're nice guys. ISS are fine in my book, I meant you guys. You're the ones who broke an agreement after all.
Sobeseki Pawi
Posted - 2005.11.24 08:48:00 -
[201 ]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Berrik Radhok and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted You shouldn't talk about ISS like that, they're nice guys. ISS are fine in my book, I meant you guys. You're the ones who broke an agreement after all. Pretty sure it was ISS shooting at BoB...not the other way around.~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me.Sovereignty 2.0
Dracorimus
Posted - 2005.11.24 08:56:00 -
[202 ]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Berrik Radhok Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Berrik Radhok and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted You shouldn't talk about ISS like that, they're nice guys. ISS are fine in my book, I meant you guys. You're the ones who broke an agreement after all. Errr, yeah, we fly in ISS space, and shoot them dont ya know ? - For more than a single foe to attempt to fight the Reikoku at once is an act of supreme folley.
Avon
Posted - 2005.11.24 10:04:00 -
[203 ]
"Hi there. We'd like to open a coffee shop in your high security facility!" 'Oh yeah?' "We'd make it worth your while." 'Oh yeah?' "...but we need you to agree that if doesn't all work out you'll give us 4 weeks to get our stuff out." 'Oh, yeah.' ... "Excuse me, but I have just heard that you are kicking us out, and we only have 3 days" 'Oh. Yeah' "Why? Just because our employees were using their restricted access for a bit of smuggling, aiding your competitors and killing a few of your staff? You should give us the 4 weeks we agreed on!" 'Oh yeah?!?! ' ______________________________________________The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Alex Tremayne
Posted - 2005.11.24 11:21:00 -
[204 ]
I'm member of ISS. I believe in what we as an alliance are trying to do. However. I don't blame BoB for kicking us out. It was going to happen sooner or later, our alliance security is shockingly poor, so far as I'm aware there are *no* restrictions on member corps hiring new members, which means literally anyone can join if they can ingratiate themselves with one of our CEOs. And they do. Just before we get war decced. And just after the war starts. Every time. Hopefully things will change because of this incident.
Serenity Steele
Posted - 2005.11.24 11:24:00 -
[205 ]
Originally by: Dracorimus Errr, yeah, we fly in ISS space, and shoot them dont ya know ? Oh you had to bring that one up . Respect to BoB, they sorted their rogue pilots at the time, showing a strong level of discipline in their ranks. Screenshots
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.24 13:53:00 -
[206 ]
Originally by: Blacklight Well Count hasn't convo'd me so I presume this thread was basically all hot air and a PR stunt because clearly ISS's leadership aren't really interested in our motivations. I think we can kill this now to be honest before the fanbois make their heads explode out of teenage excitement. Fanboi here, Ok, so the previous comments as to BoB's motivations are true, false, or total crap? Or does DB speak without thinking and well? Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.24 13:56:00 -
[207 ]
Hi, Go away Hooch. Thanks, dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
Jonkai
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:09:00 -
[208 ]
Personally I wouldn't have given them 3 days And I truly hope someone destroys their outpost :)
Shariona
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:20:00 -
[209 ]
Edited by: Shariona on 24/11/2005 14:24:14 So next question is: What will it take to destroy an Outpost When it is clear that ISS paid a pirate alliance to enter there space, i will advise the Celest leadership to set the standings for ISS at -10. When you play with fire, you.... Off topic: WTB DP Preacher action figure to complet my set GOD is busy Can i help you?
Rod Blaine
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:22:00 -
[210 ]
Quote: pirate alliance \o/ Piracy !!!!! Kiiiiiiiiiillllllll!!! Celes is back on track ? _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Shariona
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:25:00 -
[211 ]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: pirate alliance \o/ Piracy !!!!! Kiiiiiiiiiillllllll!!! Celes is back on track ? OMG 2 minutes, your fast GOD is busy Can i help you?
Avon
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:31:00 -
[212 ]
Originally by: Shariona Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: pirate alliance \o/ Piracy !!!!! Kiiiiiiiiiillllllll!!! Celes is back on track ? OMG 2 minutes, your fast Usually he doesn't last that long. ______________________________________________The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Romulus Maximus
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:43:00 -
[213 ]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne I'm member of ISS. I believe in what we as an alliance are trying to do. However. I don't blame BoB for kicking us out. It was going to happen sooner or later, our alliance security is shockingly poor, so far as I'm aware there are *no* restrictions on member corps hiring new members, which means literally anyone can join if they can ingratiate themselves with one of our CEOs. And they do. Just before we get war decced. And just after the war starts. Every time. Hopefully things will change because of this incident. Just says it all really.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.24 14:57:00 -
[214 ]
Originally by: Shariona Edited by: Shariona on 24/11/2005 14:24:14 So next question is: What will it take to destroy an Outpost A redesign of game mechanics. Outposts are utterly invulnerable. Someone could take it *away* from the shareholders, but it can't be destroyed. Quote: When it is clear that ISS paid a pirate alliance to enter there space, i will advise the Celest leadership to set the standings for ISS at -10. Huh? What pirate alliance? Whose space? Can you clarify please.
j0sephine
Posted - 2005.11.24 15:06:00 -
[215 ]
"Huh? What pirate alliance? Whose space? Can you clarify please." Celestial Apocalypse considers BoB pirates; along with most of 0.0 space based part of EVE, for that matter ^^ (now, it's time for my weekly Yarr Pronunciation practice, so if you excuse me... >>;
Juan Andalusian
Posted - 2005.11.24 15:20:00 -
[216 ]
Originally by: j0sephine "Huh? What pirate alliance? Whose space? Can you clarify please." Celestial Apocalypse considers BoB pirates; along with most of 0.0 space based part of EVE, for that matter ^^ (now, it's time for my weekly Yarr Pronunciation practice, so if you excuse me... >>; Pirates don't Yarr... they chirp like innocent bluebirds. **Pain is meant to be felt**
Sochin
Posted - 2005.11.24 16:05:00 -
[217 ]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian Originally by: j0sephine "Huh? What pirate alliance? Whose space? Can you clarify please." Celestial Apocalypse considers BoB pirates; along with most of 0.0 space based part of EVE, for that matter ^^ (now, it's time for my weekly Yarr Pronunciation practice, so if you excuse me... >>; Pirates don't Yarr... they chirp like innocent bluebirds. I yarr all the time. Pierat at heart yo Nemo me impune lacessit
Avon
Posted - 2005.11.24 16:18:00 -
[218 ]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian Pirates don't Yarr... they chirp like innocent bluebirds. Shouldn't that be "Bluebeards?" ______________________________________________The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Ribbo
Posted - 2005.11.24 16:28:00 -
[219 ]
Originally by: j0sephine "Huh? What pirate alliance? Whose space? Can you clarify please." Celestial Apocalypse considers BoB pirates; along with most of 0.0 space based part of EVE, for that matter ^^ (now, it's time for my weekly Yarr Pronunciation practice, so if you excuse me... >>; or indeed anyone they want to shoot at really.. "why are we attacking the zoo keeper?" "he had a parrot on his shoulder" "but that doesnt mean he is a ebil pirate" "i am darth solius, he is a ebil pirate" "ffs, quit with the mind trick you peen"
Zzazzt
Posted - 2005.11.24 16:30:00 -
[220 ]
OMG Avon 4 teh punz0r... ____________________________________________
ElweSingollo
Posted - 2005.11.24 18:02:00 -
[221 ]
Edited by: ElweSingollo on 24/11/2005 18:02:45 Originally by: j0sephine "My point Preacher was merely that dependant on who in BOB is doing the talking and who they are replying to it would appear that one excuse is used or the other or indeed both... so either you guys don't know yourselves, you don't care yourselves, or the full extent of the reasons weren't given to ISS and you were looking to renege on an agreement anyway." This was also addressed on the first page of this thread: "Since when do the rank and file need to know the most intimate details of ever agreement? They don't. Too many people knowing too much leads to too many cooks. That's not how we operate. " DB already said it, but seriously reading > * nvm nothing constructive comes of thsi thread anyway...
j0sephine
Posted - 2005.11.24 18:11:00 -
[222 ]
"nvm nothing constructive comes of thsi thread anyway..." Oh comeon now, you can't just reply-tease like that... ;.;
ElweSingollo
Posted - 2005.11.24 18:15:00 -
[223 ]
Originally by: j0sephine "nvm nothing constructive comes of thsi thread anyway..." Oh comeon now, you can't just reply-tease like that... ;.;
Nuala Reece
Posted - 2005.11.24 18:36:00 -
[224 ]
Originally by: j0sephine "My point Preacher was merely that dependant on who in BOB is doing the talking and who they are replying to it would appear that one excuse is used or the other or indeed both... so either you guys don't know yourselves, you don't care yourselves, or the full extent of the reasons weren't given to ISS and you were looking to renege on an agreement anyway." This was also addressed on the first page of this thread: "Since when do the rank and file need to know the most intimate details of ever agreement? They don't. Too many people knowing too much leads to too many cooks. That's not how we operate. " DB already said it, but seriously reading > * Not so much addressed as fudged really. The reply that question encourages is "when they intend to post on the subject as if speaking authoritatively for the alliance as a whole". However, I will say my last word on the whole thing (getting bored now): Originally by: Berrik Radhok and the moral of this story is don't get into agreements with people who can't be trusted Bingo!Be Free Starlancers
The Hooch
Posted - 2005.11.24 19:19:00 -
[225 ]
Originally by: DB Preacher Hi, Go away Hooch. Thanks, dbp Awwwww DB, at least lemme cheer from the sidelines, I got noth'n after all and I just want to be lub'd <sniff> Now I'm all hurt ya big meenie... Cheers Hooch, military and political guru, peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB watcher, Fanboi, *****um, Thread Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious and all'round loveable guy. Peace
Kinsy
Posted - 2005.11.25 08:11:00 -
[226 ]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: pirate alliance \o/ Piracy !!!!! Kiiiiiiiiiillllllll!!! Celes is back on track ? Wait a minute, we shoot bad guys? Aren't BoB the ultimate bad guys? I remember seeing some speel from an Exuro Mortis pilot in local about ISS helping UnA once, and thinking...Huh? I presume there is some hard evidence that ISS were naughty? I also presume that your not going to show it to us?
Avon
Posted - 2005.11.25 10:06:00 -
[227 ]
Originally by: Kinsy Aren't BoB the ultimate bad guys? How would we know? We do Target Assessments, not morality judgments. ______________________________________________The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kira Bellum
Posted - 2005.11.25 12:05:00 -
[228 ]
Originally by: Blacklight If ISS want answers Count can convo me directly. For airing elements of our business in public you lose another 100 points on the 'in favour with BoB scale', which is not generally accepted as being amongst the smartest moves a player in Eve can make. I think this discussion has gone plenty far enough from our perspective, you know how to use the conversation option if you want any further explanation for our answers. pwned. +100 points of respect for BoB and -100 points of respect for ISS. oh and 3 days notice to get the hell out is way over the norm... its usually 24 or 48 hrs. if you are determined to be a security threat things change fast. 4 week notice to a change... yea thats a bit much. A people should know when they are conquered.
Kinsy
Posted - 2005.11.25 12:33:00 -
[229 ]
Originally by: Avon Originally by: Kinsy Aren't BoB the ultimate bad guys? How would we know? We do Target Assessments, not morality judgments. Target Assessments = cold hearted. Cold hearted = bad. Bad = EBIL. EBIL = YARRR!!!
Darcuese
Posted - 2005.11.25 12:37:00 -
[230 ]
Hmm, its damn boring day on my job so I will post this since this thread took allready so much pages and uneccessary discusion. I DONT LIKE CAPITALIST PPL. THEY DO NOT THINK TO MAKE THIS WORLD/SPACE BETTER PLACE, ALLTHOUGH THEY ARE HIDING BEHIND BIG WORDS AS SUCH. MONEY AS PRIMARY THING ON THE MIND , IN MY BOOK, MAKEs HIM S.C.U.M ---------------------------------------------------ALL my words on this forum are my OWN thoughts and opinions
Thrak
Posted - 2005.11.25 12:45:00 -
[231 ]
Quote: I presume there is some hard evidence that ISS were naughty? I also presume that your not going to show it to us? Dear judge, it was them what done it. signed Thrakky McThrak I hope this meets with the 0.0 Criminal Evidence Act of July Twenty-four-never****inhappened. Can we have our rubber stamped CeLestialAPocalypse Darth Solo corpse of approval now please?
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.25 14:59:00 -
[232 ]
Originally by: Kinsy I remember seeing some speel from an Exuro Mortis pilot in local about ISS helping UnA once, and thinking...Huh? Kinsy, I know you can't help but talk about us all the time, but please, enough is enough. Nobody ever mentioned UNA, making things up really just makes you look pathetic. When we're taking more fanboi apps, we'll let you know.
SLIM
Posted - 2005.11.25 15:14:00 -
[233 ]
Seriously, I don't know why some are complaining about BoB. They are the only reason ISS got 3 days. We (OSNAP) had already led a strike fleet down to period basis before the 3 day grace period was instated. After a few engagements, a member of Black Eclipse (sorry I can't remember your name) then set up a discussion between myself and the ISS Navy commander. Additional BoB and OSNAP leadership were later brought into the discussion. Long story short, Sir Molle was the one who gave you any time to get out at all, I wouldn't have been so forgiving. These 3 days should have given you ample time to set up some defenses and educate your members on conduct during empire wars. Unfortunately, though many ISS pilots bravely put up initial resistance, your organization was not as strong as it could have been. We saw rapid demoralization on many fronts. Since we have no desire to destroy your alliance, or chase shuttles around, we retracted. Final note to the ISS Navy: I am available for consulting
Zandramus
Posted - 2005.11.25 17:00:00 -
[234 ]
if this hasint been said HAHA less regions for you no seriouly you need to war dec bob now and demand the money youll be losing cus you don't work with them anymore ______________ Pencil Protectors Schoolhttp://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=251669
BillyBong2
Posted - 2005.11.25 18:54:00 -
[235 ]
Originally by: SLIM These 3 days should have given you ample time to set up some defenses and educate your members on conduct during empire wars. Unfortunately, though many ISS pilots bravely put up initial resistance, your organization was not as strong as it could have been. We saw rapid demoralization on many fronts. Since we have no desire to destroy your alliance, or chase shuttles around, we retracted. Final note to the ISS Navy: I am available for consulting Being new to the Alliance, I would say that the above statement is totally true. Just go look at the killboard for EM. 284 kills to 13 losses. However, it galvinized my corp into getting together and trying to at least put up a resistance. I enjoyed myself immensely through the war. Some of the issues brought up in this mammoth thread are true, member corp issues, the ISS spread out all over the place makes for a long day for ISSN. We'll get better, or die trying! I am for the latter Siggy by Esturary
Reiisha
Posted - 2005.11.25 21:11:00 -
[236 ]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/11/2005 19:52:18 I think I can safely say about that that we do not dislike ISS as a concept at all, not you as it's leader. But, one would say you need to re-evaluate your policies on a number of things, including but not limited to: - recruitment - internal communications We let you in, we set rules, we don't give people many chances and are known for that. Screw up = byebye. If you accept the rules, don't break them. So for us breaching the 4 week contract deal, who cares ? I dont know if it even existed, but I couldn't care less. As I understand this wasn't a singular issue with just one member, if it were we would probably haven't kicked you out. However, 4 week periods mean nothing to us like I said. Oh, and SirMolle or Shrike is not a spokesperson, it's the alliance leader. If he says so, it goes for BoB. No use trying the "misled director doing something oopsy" angle on that. You're talking about how you shouldn't break the rules, then you immediately follow it up with how you broke the rules and don't care they existed in the first place. I don't know, but doesn't this sound a wee bit hypocrit?Save Darwinia!
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.25 21:24:00 -
[237 ]
Originally by: Reiisha You're talking about how you shouldn't break the rules, then you immediately follow it up with how you broke the rules and don't care they existed in the first place. I don't know, but doesn't this sound a wee bit hypocrit? Can we let this die? Given what BoB have said about security breaches, their revoking access forthwith is entirely justified. At least it is unless you think they're lying, and we have no reason to think that. What this debacle has exposed is some communications failures between ISS High Command and the regular membership - for example, too many corps not bothering to read the details of the BoB agreement and wandering off to dock in Delve where they should never have been in the first place. I don't know how many corps made that mistake: I know of at least three who would have done if I hadn't intercepted them in alliance chat and ordered them not to. Lessons will, no doubt, be learnt: keeping an alliance of ISS's nature 100% secure is impossible, but we can at least try harder. We have no hard feelings towards BoB, and so far as I know, they aren't setting us to KOS - or at least, not any more than they might or might not just shoot everybody they see I don't know what BoB's general policy on neutrals is, but I'm not ISS High Command, I'm just sort of Middle Command. Count may have already discussed this with them. I would hope that, if they run into us in other 0.0 regions where we are under contract to someone else, they'll let us be: but we have no agreement on that, and if they operate an NBSI policy throughout 0.0, so be it. Since we no longer have a contract to operate in their space, our pilots will be ordered not to go there: our request to BoB would be, if you find any ISS trespassing on your space, then once you've killed them let us know who they were so we can boot them from the alliance.
Kyguard
Posted - 2005.11.25 21:29:00 -
[238 ]
Quote: Being new to the Alliance, I would say that the above statement is totally true. Just go look at the killboard for EM. 284 kills to 13 losses. Well it was an empire war against an alliance where a large proportion are industrials who have no interest in empire wars atm. Don't see what the big fuss is about... The fact that they did put up any organized resistance is definitely something to be proud about; still considering that most of ISS are empire dwellers apart from their weekly trip to the POSs. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Top Hat
Posted - 2005.11.25 21:30:00 -
[239 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Reiisha You're talking about how you shouldn't break the rules, then you immediately follow it up with how you broke the rules and don't care they existed in the first place. I don't know, but doesn't this sound a wee bit hypocrit? Can we let this die? Given what BoB have said about security breaches, their revoking access forthwith is entirely justified. At least it is unless you think they're lying, and we have no reason to think that. What this debacle has exposed is some communications failures between ISS High Command and the regular membership - for example, too many corps not bothering to read the details of the BoB agreement and wandering off to dock in Delve where they should never have been in the first place. I don't know how many corps made that mistake: I know of at least three who would have done if I hadn't intercepted them in alliance chat and ordered them not to. Lessons will, no doubt, be learnt: keeping an alliance of ISS's nature 100% secure is impossible, but we can at least try harder. We have no hard feelings towards BoB, and so far as I know, they aren't setting us to KOS - or at least, not any more than they might or might not just shoot everybody they see I don't know what BoB's general policy on neutrals is, but I'm not ISS High Command, I'm just sort of Middle Command. Count may have already discussed this with them. I would hope that, if they run into us in other 0.0 regions where we are under contract to someone else, they'll let us be: but we have no agreement on that, and if they operate an NBSI policy throughout 0.0, so be it. Since we no longer have a contract to operate in their space, our pilots will be ordered not to go there: our request to BoB would be, if you find any ISS trespassing on your space, then once you've killed them let us know who they were so we can boot them from the alliance. You sir, have your head screwed on. Congrats, its a rarity amongst these forums/game.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.25 21:35:00 -
[240 ]
Originally by: Top Hat You sir, have your head screwed on. Sometimes
Electra Euri
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:07:00 -
[241 ]
People are finally get sick of Band Of Builders ... They don't honor contracts... THEY WILL NOT BE TRUSTED AGAIN. People resent BOB for price gouging and blame them for the inflated prices of HAC's. And anyone who has dealt with BOB quickly realizes how pompous and stuck up they are. Many big name PVPers joined BOB, but most of them have gone inactive. BOB is weak atm and hopefully someone will knock them off their block. I have friends that were in Band Of Builders and they said they were bored silly and really felt used and exploited by BOB. Now Sellin Blackbird Cruisers
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:22:00 -
[242 ]
Originally by: Electra Euri People are finally get sick of Band Of Builders ... They don't honor contracts... THEY WILL NOT BE TRUSTED AGAIN. People resent BOB for price gouging and blame them for the inflated prices of HAC's. And anyone who has dealt with BOB quickly realizes how pompous and stuck up they are. Many big name PVPers joined BOB, but most of them have gone inactive. BOB is weak atm and hopefully someone will knock them off their block. I have friends that were in Band Of Builders and they said they were bored silly and really felt used and exploited by BOB. YES WE ARE WEAK AND POMPOUS. SOMEONE PLEASE SEND A FORCE TO KILL US NOW. Oh and we hired KSUDruid and he hasn't even bothered to log on for at least 30 minutes, the cad. SATURDAY NIGHT BEER + POS KILLING FTW. :| dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
Coranor
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:24:00 -
[243 ]
Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Electra Euri People are finally get sick of Band Of Builders ... They don't honor contracts... THEY WILL NOT BE TRUSTED AGAIN. People resent BOB for price gouging and blame them for the inflated prices of HAC's. And anyone who has dealt with BOB quickly realizes how pompous and stuck up they are. Many big name PVPers joined BOB, but most of them have gone inactive. BOB is weak atm and hopefully someone will knock them off their block. I have friends that were in Band Of Builders and they said they were bored silly and really felt used and exploited by BOB. YES WE ARE WEAK AND POMPOUS. SOMEONE PLEASE SEND A FORCE TO KILL US NOW. Oh and we hired KSUDruid and he hasn't even bothered to log on for at least 30 minutes, the cad. SATURDAY NIGHT BEER + POS KILLING FTW. :| dbp Preacher you twit look at what he typed before replying. Bloody impatient nutcase --------------
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:29:00 -
[244 ]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 26/11/2005 03:33:54 I did read it but I couldn't be arsed actually pretending that he had done an amazing post and fooled us all. Coz like if he did post it about another corp then that would, ofc, be off topic trolling. And I know no-one on this thread can be accused of that. p.s. This thread bored me around page 1 after the announcement had been done and dusted. How it ever got this lengthy is beyond me :| dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
Coranor
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:34:00 -
[245 ]
Edited by: Coranor on 26/11/2005 03:35:40 Thats cause he did'nt do an amazing post an fool us all. Just you and no excuses Its so long because we've nothing better to do. --------------
DB Preacher
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:43:00 -
[246 ]
Originally by: Coranor Edited by: Coranor on 26/11/2005 03:35:40 Thats cause he did'nt do an amazing post an fool us all. Just you and no excuses Its so long because we've nothing better to do. Don't you have a pos to kill dbpCurrent RKK Ranking: (CAL5) Kenin Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums .
Blacklight
Posted - 2005.11.26 03:59:00 -
[247 ]
Originally by: Electra Euri People are finally get sick of Band Of Builders ... They don't honor contracts... THEY WILL NOT BE TRUSTED AGAIN. People resent BOB for price gouging and blame them for the inflated prices of HAC's. And anyone who has dealt with BOB quickly realizes how pompous and stuck up they are. Many big name PVPers joined BOB, but most of them have gone inactive. BOB is weak atm and hopefully someone will knock them off their block. I have friends that were in Band Of Builders and they said they were bored silly and really felt used and exploited by BOB. To be honest until that Bob the Builder bloke came along we were nice guys, just shows what children's TV can do I suppose!Eve Blacklight Style
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.26 04:08:00 -
[248 ]
Originally by: Blacklight To be honest until that Bob the Builder bloke came along we were nice guys, just shows what children's TV can do I suppose! Well, at least we can try and put a stop to that now. Let's just agree that you guys are BoB, and we're the builders.
Dao 2
Posted - 2005.11.26 08:35:00 -
[249 ]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 26/11/2005 08:35:21 wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of handddddddddddddddddddddd ;p if iss isnt too sore about how this turned out y is everyone else thats siding with them making more noise against bob then them ;pppp? edit: i still hate u bob ;p
sonofollo
Posted - 2005.11.26 11:11:00 -
[250 ]
Bob control their space just as well as FIX does (the difference between BOB and FIX is that FIX moved them down into the catch area where they can operate. That and the fact they cant enter querious and the fact that FIX states any ISS Pilots in querious or FAT area are KOS regarldess. Bob would have done well just to make the agreement that ISS have x amount of systems and that BOB have full KOS if any pilots enter the wrong system. Bob is expansionists - FIX is quite ok with controlling 2 regions - from what i hear bOB are doing well against the north but spread themselves a lot wider than FIX did. Hence elaving their borders open to the likes of ahem the pink panties project (aka pink panther project of pirates who like to brag they got in and out)
Boonaki
Posted - 2005.11.26 11:49:00 -
[251 ]
Allot of stuff happens in BoB that only a select few know about. It's called compartmentilization, if you think that the small incident of a single pilot shooting at a protectorate was the only reason to boot them out of our space you are saddly mistaken. Fear the Ibis of doom.
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.26 14:43:00 -
[252 ]
Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 26/11/2005 08:35:21 wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of handddddddddddddddddddddd ;p if iss isnt too sore about how this turned out y is everyone else thats siding with them making more noise against bob then them ;pppp? edit: i still hate u bob ;p And there you have it. As the biggest, baddest guys in EVE, BoB are just fun to hate, I guess.
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.26 15:20:00 -
[253 ]
Originally by: sonofollo the pink panties project (aka pink panther project of pirates who like to brag they got in and out) If you mean 'got in and out' of northern Aridia, sure. They haven't dared go to southern Aridia where they'd actually be forced to fight more than just a lone traveller.
Reiisha
Posted - 2005.11.26 17:16:00 -
[254 ]
Edited by: Reiisha on 26/11/2005 17:15:43 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Reiisha Hypocricy stuff Good explanation I guess i was just not reading good enough. Sorry for falsely semi-accusing you Rod :PSave Darwinia!
Dao 2
Posted - 2005.11.26 17:35:00 -
[255 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 26/11/2005 08:35:21 wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of handddddddddddddddddddddd ;p if iss isnt too sore about how this turned out y is everyone else thats siding with them making more noise against bob then them ;pppp? edit: i still hate u bob ;p weve been enemies for a while too ;p And there you have it. As the biggest, baddest guys in EVE, BoB are just fun to hate, I guess.
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.27 06:16:00 -
[256 ]
Just to resurrect this lovely thread, I'd like to point out that while 99% of ISS are pacifist, there are a select few who haven't yet caught on that they're not ready to play pirate in 0.0. As I've just sent a mail to Count, I'll restate it here. Three of your pilots came to Delve tonight with the intent to agress. After an encounter with me, only one came back with his ship fully intact. I'm going to be kind here, and file this under an alliance miscommunication. Don't let me catch you in Delve again.
Tony Fats
Posted - 2005.11.27 06:49:00 -
[257 ]
The original post just makes me respect BoB even more. Contract. Pff. You sound like a bunch of knuckleheads, you're lucky they gave you 3 days.
CmdrRat
Posted - 2005.11.27 07:20:00 -
[258 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr I don't know what BoB's general policy on neutrals is, Just FYI, we're "NBBBQ" type of guys. "not blue, BBQ!" Good post, I wish ISS the best, your the first group of guys that are trying to REALLY do the carebear side of eve like we do PVP. Once someone figures out what to do about the alts and such your going to pwn. _ ____ _______ _________________________________________________________
Soul Redemption
Posted - 2005.11.27 09:04:00 -
[259 ]
i say down with iss down with bob woot woot :D bob doing a fine job tarnishing thier own names they dont need iss 2 do it for tham and iss you nubs YAR! FLAME POST i am TSBH hear me roar! miao!
Specture
Posted - 2005.11.27 09:23:00 -
[260 ]
Edited by: Specture on 27/11/2005 09:23:46 Originally by: Righteous Fury Just to resurrect this lovely thread, I'd like to point out that while 99% of ISS are pacifist, there are a select few who haven't yet caught on that they're not ready to play pirate in 0.0. As I've just sent a mail to Count, I'll restate it here. Three of your pilots came to Delve tonight with the intent to agress. After an encounter with me, only one came back with his ship fully intact. I'm going to be kind here, and file this under an alliance miscommunication. Don't let me catch you in Delve again. Yarr, mateys come to i3q where spec the ole pie rat can fight yee
Baldour Ngarr
Posted - 2005.11.28 02:23:00 -
[261 ]
Originally by: Righteous Fury Just to resurrect this lovely thread, I'd like to point out that while 99% of ISS are pacifist, there are a select few who haven't yet caught on that they're not ready to play pirate in 0.0. As I've just sent a mail to Count, I'll restate it here. Three of your pilots came to Delve tonight with the intent to agress. After an encounter with me, only one came back with his ship fully intact. I'm going to be kind here, and file this under an alliance miscommunication. Don't let me catch you in Delve again. Quote: Since we no longer have a contract to operate in their space, our pilots will be ordered not to go there: our request to BoB would be, if you find any ISS trespassing on your space, then once you've killed them let us know who they were so we can boot them from the alliance. Wink If you guys live in Delve, that goes for you to. ISS pilots should not be there; let us know who they were and we'll get rid of them.
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.28 03:12:00 -
[262 ]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr If you guys live in Delve, that goes for you to. ISS pilots should not be there; let us know who they were and we'll get rid of them. Already been done.
Sochin
Posted - 2005.11.28 05:24:00 -
[263 ]
This thread is like the energizer bunny of forum topics. Nothing original has been said here since like page two, but somehow it has managed to get to 9 pages. It must be the word "bob" in the title. We're ever so popular.Nemo me impune lacessit
Crazy Maxine
Posted - 2005.11.29 13:19:00 -
[264 ]
i got a question who was the pilot who ****** this whole thing up? will he be hunted down for the rest of his eve-life?
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.29 15:01:00 -
[265 ]
Teufelhunden[PAX] fired upon Flaavie[.SL.], which led to our attacks on ISS.Linkage
TriggaMan
Posted - 2005.11.29 16:52:00 -
[266 ]
Omg you guys killed a t1 equipped Prophecy with 2 t2 equipped HAC's and a t2 equipped inty. So l33t!
Murph Dog
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:44:00 -
[267 ]
Edited by: Murph Dog on 29/11/2005 17:44:03 Originally by: Righteous Fury Teufelhunden[PAX] fired upon Flaavie[.SL.], which led to our attacks on ISS.Linkage That doesnt actually show what you were trying to prove :P And posting killmail links are bad m'k? I hear Abdalion is in a mood, wouldnt want him to get mad and lock the thread prematurely :P Lets at least get to 15 pages first. Edit: WOOT!! First on Page 10!!
Murph Dog
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:44:00 -
[268 ]
Edited by: Murph Dog on 29/11/2005 17:44:03 Originally by: Righteous Fury Teufelhunden[PAX] fired upon Flaavie[.SL.], which led to our attacks on ISS.Linkage That doesnt actually show what you were trying to prove :P And posting killmail links are bad m'k? I hear Abdalion is in a mood, wouldnt want him to get mad and lock the thread prematurely :P Lets at least get to 15 pages first. Edit: WOOT!! First on Page 10!!
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:50:00 -
[269 ]
EVE Online | EVE Insider | Forums
Righteous Fury
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:50:00 -
[270 ]
Edited by: Righteous Fury on 29/11/2005 17:50:39 Wasn't proving anything tbh, killing ISS isn't exactly difficult. I was just pointing out that particular incident which lead to everything else - ISS getting kicked out by BoB, our war on ISS. Getting the thread locked is just a hopeful side effect
Murph Dog
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:51:00 -
[271 ]
Lol coolio. Works for me :P
Dyvim Tvars
Posted - 2005.11.29 18:07:00 -
[272 ]
Think this thread has run its course. and served its purpose --------------------------------------------
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