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keepiru
   |
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: keepiru on 29/11/2005 17:25:54
Sleipnir 8/5/5, 7 gun/3 missile, 1400mw/480tf
Name: Sleipnir
Hull: Cyclone
Role: Field Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their
own in battle.
Developer: Boundless Creation
Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics
arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff per level
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Claymore 8/6/4, 5/3, 1400/480
Name: Claymore
Hull: Cyclone
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Fleet command ships represent the ultimate in warfare link efficiency; while not packing the punch of their field command counterparts, the
boosts they give their comrades in combat make them indispensable assets to any well-rounded fleet.
Developer: Core Complexion
Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level
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Astarte 7/4/6, 7, 1650/390
Name: Astarte
Hull: Brutix
Role: Field Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their
own in battle.
Developer: Duvolle Labs
Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New EdenÆs foremost manufacturers of particle
blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid turret falloff per level
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
|
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: keepiru on 29/11/2005 17:27:38
Eos 7/5/5, 7, 1650/390
Name: Eos
Hull: Brutix
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Fleet command ships represent the ultimate in warfare link efficiency; while not packing the punch of their field command counterparts, the
boosts they give their comrades in combat make them indispensable assets to any well-rounded fleet.
Developer: CreoDron
As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the
Ishkur can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in CPU need of Drone Control Units and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
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Nighthawk 7/5/4, 1/6, 690/555
Name: Nighthawk
Hull: Ferox
Role: Field Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their
own in battle.
Developer: Kaalakiota
As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are
designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for
protection.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level
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Vulture 7/6/5, 5/5, 1100/510
Name: Vulture
Hull: Ferox
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Fleet command ships represent the ultimate in warfare link efficiency; while not packing the punch of their field command counterparts, the
boosts they give their comrades in combat make them indispensable assets to any well-rounded fleet.
Developer: Ishukone
Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield
systems unmatched anywhere else.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: keepiru on 29/11/2005 17:28:34
Absolution 7/3/7, 6/1, 1500/420
Name: Absolution
Hull: Prophecy
Role: Field Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their
own in battle.
Developer: Carthum Conglomerate
Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and
defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire per level
----
Damnation 7/4/6, 4/4, 1500/420
Name: Damnation
Hull: Prophecy
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of
turning the tide in large engagements. Fleet command ships represent the ultimate in warfare link efficiency; while not packing the punch of their field command counterparts, the
boosts they give their comrades in combat make them indispensable assets to any well-rounded fleet.
Developer: Khanid Innovations
The Khanid KingdomÆs ships possess the most advanced shield generators available outside Caldari space, as well as fairly robust electronics systems. Their armor and hull,
however, are rather weak and hard to modify.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Tharbad
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:29:00 -
[4]
So... the Command ones are totally and utterly devastatingly overpowered, eh? Well, with damage bonuses like that, they might well be, but do they have full assault resistances? That could be crucial.
The Fleet Command ones should get two bonuses to gang-assist, I think - on SiSi the t1 BCs have enough offensive punch, especially for the not-combat variant!
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:31:00 -
[5]
They dont have full assault resists.
And theyre still slow & large.
But deffo worth training leadership skills for a month or more + bc 5 for them...
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:37:00 -
[6]
Field Command ships are going to be amazing to fly 
Fleet ones look good too
Free bumpage for all |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:40:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/11/2005 17:40:38
ôThey dont have full assault resists.ö
The Fleet command ships do have full assault resistance as base last time I looked. Even worse the Vulture has an extra 25% from its bonus and another 22.5% from Gang assist. ThatÆs going make a killer passive shield tank but that does mean having Command ship skill at level 5. Plus if mind link come out that 22.5% can be boosted more. Add one 1 or 2 Invul Fields and you have one hack of a tough ship to kill.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2005.11.29 17:41:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: keepiru
They dont have full assault resists.
And theyre still slow & large.
But deffo worth training leadership skills for a month or more + bc 5 for them...
As a Deimos pilot let me start by saying: I for one welcome our new Astarte overlords.
BTW, EOS needs its 10% reduction of drone control units bonus rethought. 10 light drones for the win?
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:44:00 -
[9]
I wasn't going to train for these.
Now that I have seen this, you can be sure that I am.
Although I do have to train that charisma skill and adv learning up first tho........
Stupid leadership! Where are the ships that get bonuses for following orders and stuff. Grunts 4tw!
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
Gierling
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:45:00 -
[10]
I think this is utterly ridiculous, a Ferox with two optimal bonii?
That makes it the only valid one to fly in a fleet battle as it can still contribute damage, while all the other ships are nothing more then targets at 100k.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units. 
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Ambrose
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:48:00 -
[12]
Eos needs an optimal bonus so that it could theoretically actually do damage in a fleet fight.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
Edit: Holy **** T2 cyclone has 8 his and 7 gunslots??? WTF
Edit2 : BC 5 finshes in 2 weeks... maybe I can snag a couple of these t2 BCs before the waiting line becomes a year.
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/11/2005 17:40:38
ôThey dont have full assault resists.ö
The Fleet command ships do have full assault resistance as base last time I looked. Even worse the Vulture has an extra 25% from its bonus and another 22.5% from Gang assist. ThatÆs going make a killer passive shield tank but that does mean having Command ship skill at level 5. Plus if mind link come out that 22.5% can be boosted more. Add one 1 or 2 Invul Fields and you have one hack of a tough ship to kill.
Sorry Pott but you gotta check again, they dont get full assault resists.
They are still high enough though.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:55:00 -
[15]
remember kids, the Eos has 1650 pg base.
Its not unlikely that you can fit 7 heavy naeutron IIs on that thing.
I for wouldnt like to meet one in a dark system...
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:55:00 -
[16]
wow just wow at those boni 
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Imode
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:56:00 -
[17]
Falloff bonus on the Astarte... I guess CCP really wants us to use blasters on it.
Except there's no MWD bonus and the thing moves like a pig and is already the size of a small moon.
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
...
Well, they do grant a +3% effectiveness to each - now seemingly racial - GA tree :)
Will wait to see how Eos and Claymore fares with only bonuses to the niche trees before i comment on those though. :)
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:57:00 -
[19]
Its got 2250 cap in 500 seconds. it really doesent need a cap bonus, tbh.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Imode
Falloff bonus on the Astarte... I guess CCP really wants us to use blasters on it.
Except there's no MWD bonus and the thing moves like a pig and is already the size of a small moon.
You dont need a mwd bonus when you can just slap the gang assist mod on there to boost speed.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.29 17:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
...
Well, they do grant a +3% effectiveness to each - now seemingly racial - GA tree :)
Will wait to see how Eos and Claymore fares with only bonuses to the niche trees before i comment on those though. :)
Errh 3% of the existing 3% base bonuses of the gang mods isnt very much... I hope its additive... Although that would make certain modules extremely overpowered..
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
...
Well, they do grant a +3% effectiveness to each - now seemingly racial - GA tree :)
Will wait to see how Eos and Claymore fares with only bonuses to the niche trees before i comment on those though. :)
Errh 3% of the existing 3% base bonuses of the gang mods isnt very much... I hope its additive... Although that would make certain modules extremely overpowered..
yep, i know, 25,8% instead of 22,5% isn't that impressive.
But i'd imagine it would be additive, seeing as 37,5% is a substantial increase in tankability, and 48,75% is actually acceptable when looking at the niche trees. :)
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
...
Well, they do grant a +3% effectiveness to each - now seemingly racial - GA tree :)
Will wait to see how Eos and Claymore fares with only bonuses to the niche trees before i comment on those though. :)
Errh 3% of the existing 3% base bonuses of the gang mods isnt very much... I hope its additive... Although that would make certain modules extremely overpowered..
yep, i know, 25,8% instead of 22,5% isn't that impressive.
But i'd imagine it would be additive, seeing as 37,5% is a substantial increase in tankability, and 48,75% is actually acceptable when looking at the niche trees. :)
The caldari T2 BC will prolly end up the most useless of them all though (gang wise) as the info warfare gang mods are the suckiest of the lot esp with the new ECCM changes.
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Santiac
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:53:33
Edited by: SengH on 29/11/2005 17:50:34
anyone find it wierd that the command BCs have no leadership bonuses at all? not even something like +%effectiveness to gang module per level?
...
Well, they do grant a +3% effectiveness to each - now seemingly racial - GA tree :)
Will wait to see how Eos and Claymore fares with only bonuses to the niche trees before i comment on those though. :)
Errh 3% of the existing 3% base bonuses of the gang mods isnt very much... I hope its additive... Although that would make certain modules extremely overpowered..
yep, i know, 25,8% instead of 22,5% isn't that impressive.
But i'd imagine it would be additive, seeing as 37,5% is a substantial increase in tankability, and 48,75% is actually acceptable when looking at the niche trees. :)
The caldari T2 BC will prolly end up the most useless of them all though (gang wise) as the info warfare gang mods are the suckiest of the lot esp with the new ECCM changes.
Can only agree - to be perfectly honest i can't help feeling a bit dissapointed.
Nonetheless i'll still find a usefull way of utilizing the Eos, even if it only (if not changed) has a dronebay on 50m3 along with the drone control bonus. :)
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units.
I was just about to make the same point... 
Yeah, that's one of those "WTF were they THINKING?!" things that CCP is known for... 
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 29/11/2005 17:56:13
remember kids, the Eos has 1650 pg base.
Its not unlikely that you can fit 7 heavy naeutron IIs on that thing.
I for wouldnt like to meet one in a dark system...
2062.5pg, 7 neutron IIs take 1468.8, WE HAVE A WINNER \o/
o:
Heavy neutron II with double damage bonus outdamages electron blaster cannon II with single damage bonus by 7.1%. Heavy neutron II with maxed skills, antimatter and a 25% falloff bonus has optimal of 2,250m and falloff of 7.8km. Electron blaster cannon II with maxed skills + antimatter has optimal of 3,000, and falloff of 7.5km. Obviously, the heavy neutron blaster has much superior tracking (twice the base tracking of the battleship electron, as well as sig res of 125m rather than 400m).
That Astarte looks scary as hell.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 29/11/2005 17:56:13
remember kids, the Eos has 1650 pg base.
Its not unlikely that you can fit 7 heavy naeutron IIs on that thing.
I for wouldnt like to meet one in a dark system...
2062.5pg, 7 neutron IIs take 1468.8, WE HAVE A WINNER \o/
o:
Heavy neutron II with double damage bonus outdamages electron blaster cannon II with single damage bonus by 7.1%. Heavy neutron II with maxed skills, antimatter and a 25% falloff bonus has optimal of 2,250m and falloff of 7.8km. Electron blaster cannon II with maxed skills + antimatter has optimal of 3,000, and falloff of 7.5km. Obviously, the heavy neutron blaster has much superior tracking (twice the base tracking of the battleship electron, as well as sig res of 125m rather than 400m).
That Astarte looks scary as hell.
It makes up for the EOS having a drone control unit bonus with 50m3 drone bay. 10 light drones for the win!
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Magunus
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: keepiru
Nighthawk 7/5/4, 1/6, 690/555
Name: Nighthawk
Hull: Ferox
Role: Field Command Ship
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level
<sigh>
Methinks a new Cerberus thread is in order.
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Finix Jaeger on 29/11/2005 18:39:14
wee
-------------------------
Rover Vitesse > Finix, i am not going to go all the way tonight |
keepiru
|
Posted - 2005.11.29 18:51:00 -
[30]
need a grid mod for 2 med reps.
1 goes on fine, and gets a 37.5% repped amount bonus.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.29 18:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Emilia White
the thought of this setup ont he astari scares the **** out of me now:
7xNeutron IIs
MWD, Web, Scram, Capbooster
2xMedium Reps, Explosive Hardner, 3-4Damagemods and maybe a Adaptive nano instead of the last damage mod
thing is going to *****anything in the game
Go with 6 and toss the armor rep cycle time reduction gang mod on there or mwd/ab speed boost. That'll be scary.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:01:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 19:04:00
Originally by: Emilia White
the thought of this setup ont he astari scares the **** out of me now:
7xNeutron IIs
MWD, Web, Scram, Capbooster
2xMedium Reps, Explosive Hardner, 3-4Damagemods and maybe a Adaptive nano instead of the last damage mod
thing is going to *****anything in the game
Not when a minmatar recon ship hits with 90% webs from 40km.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:03:00 -
[33]
"<sigh>
Methinks a new Cerberus thread is in order."
Sadly, yes; can't help but wonder what's the point of giving 'all out combat' battlecruiser a bonus which only affects targets smaller than cruiser and second bonus which only affects targets moving at interceptor-like speeds. Could swear there's enough ships with the very role of killing small crafts already, and that something as "high tech" as tech.2 battlecruiser would be better off with more flexible set of benefits... :/
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:03:00 -
[34]
ôSorry Pott but you gotta check again, they dont get full assault resists.
They are still high enough though.ö
I just checked again and the resistanceÆs are identical to assault resistanceÆs. Your the 4th person to tell me I am wrong, I just donÆt get it. The Gallante Fleet command ships have the below amour reistance without bonusÆs.
60% Em
10% Explosive
83.75% Kinetic
67.5% Thermal
How is that not classed as Assault resistanceÆs?
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:12:00 -
[35]
well... the field command ones are surely the ultimate T2 pwn machines now...
-------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:30:00 -
[36]
I'd like to go on record right now and predict that the field command ships will never drop below 600mil isk.
That's a very very good thing too since you only need one T2 EW cruiser or T2 BC and some friends in small ships to take out any similarly sized fleet that is not so blessed.
CCP you are some clever bastards. Make some awesome ships, make the training for them so obscene that even vets complain, and make them rare and expensive, and they become the ultimate status symbols. What's an uber-capitalist future society without lots of neat toys for the proles to aspire to owning eh?
T2 BS will be timed to release as soon as these become as common as HACs which are no longer a status symbol but judging by the whining are actually an entitlement to anyone with 20mil+ SP.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:32:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Crellion on 29/11/2005 19:33:25
Originally by: Gierling
I think this is utterly ridiculous, a Ferox with two optimal bonii?
That makes it the only valid one to fly in a fleet battle as it can still contribute damage, while all the other ships are nothing more then targets at 100k.
Only you can do the same dmg (4 instead of 5 turrets but 5% dmg per level is I think exactly the same) and have better resists and same range on an Eagle it seems. So if you pay the extra gazillion and train the skills it will have to be for the gang assist module. I d rather wait for the techII rail platform Raven tbh :) (7x425IIs, shield tank and 3xmfsII, 1tr enh II, 1 dmg cntrlII, with better base resist 4tw -see? I allready have the set up figured. Me pownz ] -edit typos
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CDLPeacemaker
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Posted - 2005.11.29 19:42:00 -
[38]
Holy crap. The Field Command Cruisers... just wow. Im dropping what im training this week and starting on this.
Caldari - Holy crap this thing is going to EAT ceptors.
Galente - Makes battleships cry for mommie.
Minni - 7x 720IIs with level 5 spec and level 5 sugical strike. 4 Damage mods. Thats like a 16 - 17x damage mod. (I have 4/4 on spec and SS and w/ 4 damage mods on my Ruppie w/ cruiser 5 I get like 16.1)
The new alpha strike of death. Thats what im talking about. No more crap 4 turrets /6 turrets with 2 launchers.
The amarr one looks nice but not as good as the others.
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Malena
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Posted - 2005.11.29 20:13:00 -
[39]
Is anyone else disappointed with the bonusses for the fleet command ships? I would have preferred something that stacked a bit more gang ability into them, or at the very least, a static bonus for the 4 of them...like the ability to control one more gang module, or 1.5% bonus to a different kind of warfare link.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.29 20:17:00 -
[40]
"I would have preferred something that stacked a bit more gang ability into them, or at the very least, a static bonus for the 4 of them...like the ability to control one more gang module, or 1.5% bonus to a different kind of warfare link."
I think the fleet command ships have the built-in ability to run 3 gang modules 'out of the box' ... so they do have some advantage here. Still, would be nice if they offered some more gang-related boosts ^^;;
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:10:00 -
[41]
The target navigation prediction bonus is all but worthless if you ask me. The only targets is has any effect on is interceptors and they will still get a large damage cut against them (around 75% instead of 90% against the average inty).
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:31:00 -
[42]
Originally by: VossKarr
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units.
I was just about to make the same point...
Yeah, that's one of those "WTF were they THINKING?!" things that CCP is known for...
No, the point is - as can even be seen on that page - that there is the Force Recon, which is far more technical in nature (Cynosural field abilities, cloaking, E-war) and there is one more combat in nature which is the combat recon (Offensive weaponry and very extensive electronic warfare capabilities)
As can be seen on the wikipedia article linked, here are the tasks performed:
* Amphibious and deep ground surveillance.
* Assist in specialized technical missions such as Weapons of mass destruction(NBC), Radio, sensors and beacons, etc.
* Assist in ordnance delivery (i.e., designating targets for laser-guided bombs, ground artillery and naval artillery).
* Conduct 'limited scale raids,' such as gas and oil platform (GOPLATS) raids and the capture of specific personnel or sensitive materials.
* Hostage/Prisoner of war rescue.
Both could easily be called "Force Recon" and fit within the roles listed but by no means does the "Combat Recon" name imply that "Force Recon" does not do combat, it just accentuates the differences between the two.
However, this is quite off-topic and should perhaps be discussed in a thread about Recons, not about Command ship?
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Darth Revanant
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôSorry Pott but you gotta check again, they dont get full assault resists.
They are still high enough though.ö
I just checked again and the resistanceÆs are identical to assault resistanceÆs. Your the 4th person to tell me I am wrong, I just donÆt get it. The Gallante Fleet command ships have the below amour reistance without bonusÆs.
60% Em
10% Explosive
83.75% Kinetic
67.5% Thermal
How is that not classed as Assault resistanceÆs?
Yes, the fleet command ships have full assault resists. The field command ships (HAC-like ones with dmg boni) do not.
_______________
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Arti K
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:45:00 -
[44]
I want a solo pwnmobile 
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Cadiz
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:47:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Cadiz on 29/11/2005 21:48:42
The Nighthawk has some evil, evil bonuses going on there. Good Lord. And they apply to all heavy missiles!
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:55:00 -
[46]
The Sleipnir is making me all kinds of excited.
~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:56:00 -
[47]
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 21:57:06
"The Nighthawk has some evil, evil bonuses going on there. Good Lord. And they apply to all heavy missiles!"
... eh?
* 25% bonus to heavy missile damage
* explosion radius of heavy missile reduced to 85 m with all relevant skills maxed
* explosion velocity of heavy missile increased to 1.68 km/sec with all relevant skills maxed
what's so "evil evil" about it? it'll allow to hit small crafts for closer to full damage, which would be maybe useful if there wasn't already Eagle, assault frigates, destroyers and interceptors in the game... with interdictors about to make their appearance on top of it. --;;
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.11.29 21:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Magunus
Originally by: keepiru
Nighthawk 7/5/4, 1/6, 690/555
Name: Nighthawk
Hull: Ferox
Role: Field Command Ship
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level
<sigh>
Methinks a new Cerberus thread is in order.
Are you saying you would not like to have these kind of stats on your cerberus instead of the ones we are stuck with now?
1. 5% per lvl damage increase to all damage types instead of kinetic only.
2. The ability to use heavy missiles effectivly against smaller & faster targets as well as larger targets again.
3. 6th launcher slot instead of a useless empty utility high slot.
4. 5% all resistance bonus to shields. IE no big fat 0% resistance anymore to EM.
Only thing that stands out in my mind is the fact that while these things are obviously geared to handle frigates and intercepters they have done away with the speed bonus to missiles. So the frigates will just out run all the missiles....Irony at its best
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:05:00 -
[49]
So how does Wing Command factor into this? Anybody know? Is it just a placeholder for the Command Ships skill?
I hope not because I'll be honest the potential of increasing the +15% bonus with *Insert Preferred* Warfare Spec. 5 and Squadron Command 5 to 17.25% with Command Ships 5 does not thrill me...
Even something like AB speed will only go from 22.5% to 25.9%
Doesn't really seem worth it when one considers the cost of the ship and how quickly it will be targetted and taken out in large engagements.
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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elFarto
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 21:57:06
"The Nighthawk has some evil, evil bonuses going on there. Good Lord. And they apply to all heavy missiles!"
... eh?
* 25% bonus to heavy missile damage
* explosion radius of heavy missile reduced to 85 m with all relevant skills maxed
* explosion velocity of heavy missile increased to 1.68 km/sec with all relevant skills maxed
what's so "evil evil" about it? it'll allow to hit small crafts for closer to full damage, which would be maybe useful if there wasn't already Eagle, assault frigates, destroyers and interceptors in the game... with interdictors about to make their appearance on top of it. --;;
+25% to all shield resists
I want one for PvE, but the powergrid has been hit hard, 690 is going to be a tight fit.
Also it has a skill requirements as long as my arm, most of which I don't have .
Regards
elFarto
Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage. |
VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 21:57:06
"The Nighthawk has some evil, evil bonuses going on there. Good Lord. And they apply to all heavy missiles!"
... eh?
* 25% bonus to heavy missile damage
* explosion radius of heavy missile reduced to 85 m with all relevant skills maxed
* explosion velocity of heavy missile increased to 1.68 km/sec with all relevant skills maxed
what's so "evil evil" about it? it'll allow to hit small crafts for closer to full damage, which would be maybe useful if there wasn't already Eagle, assault frigates, destroyers and interceptors in the game... with interdictors about to make their appearance on top of it. --;;
The fact of the matter is: the Nighthawk, being a missile ship (0-70km damage) with those bonuses, will be much more difficult to tackle than any turret ship, Eagle included. It'll basically be an interceptor-pwn-mobile.
Plus, with heavy missiles(launchers) being boosted and with damage bonus to all missiles, basically no HAC or other ship with specific resistances will be safe.
Which means I'm dropping whatever I've been training and starting BC5. 
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:09:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 22:13:45
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: VossKarr
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units.
I was just about to make the same point...
Yeah, that's one of those "WTF were they THINKING?!" things that CCP is known for...
No, the point is - as can even be seen on that page - that there is the Force Recon, which is far more technical in nature (Cynosural field abilities, cloaking, E-war) and there is one more combat in nature which is the combat recon (Offensive weaponry and very extensive electronic warfare capabilities)
As can be seen on the wikipedia article linked, here are the tasks performed:
* Amphibious and deep ground surveillance.
* Assist in specialized technical missions such as Weapons of mass destruction(NBC), Radio, sensors and beacons, etc.
* Assist in ordnance delivery (i.e., designating targets for laser-guided bombs, ground artillery and naval artillery).
* Conduct 'limited scale raids,' such as gas and oil platform (GOPLATS) raids and the capture of specific personnel or sensitive materials.
* Hostage/Prisoner of war rescue.
Both could easily be called "Force Recon" and fit within the roles listed but by no means does the "Combat Recon" name imply that "Force Recon" does not do combat, it just accentuates the differences between the two.
However, this is quite off-topic and should perhaps be discussed in a thread about Recons, not about Command ship?
Well, this is brought up in the thread on Recon ships briefly, but since you posted here...
IMHO the category should be Force Recon ships and one named Combat Recon and the other something along the lines of Strategic Recon or something cooler. I was more trying to point out that they're named the same thing.
This is not only offtopic for this thread, but also nothing major. You could listen to Hammer for your ship categories and we'd still fly 'em.
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:19:00 -
[53]
Oh, and the descriptions actually aren't final, Gnauton is doing a second revision just now.
The Fleet Command for example can use three leadership modules, that isn't mentioned in the current descriptions.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:32:00 -
[54]
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 22:33:41
"The fact of the matter is: the Nighthawk, being a missile ship (0-70km damage) with those bonuses, will be much more difficult to tackle than any turret ship, Eagle included. It'll basically be an interceptor-pwn-mobile."
Yes, which is the very reason i don't understand what's so exciting about it. The queue of interceptor-pwn-mobiles is already long, and there's brand new class of ships designed for exactly that, about to be added to the game.
If i wanted to pwn interceptors then the field command gang support ship as slow as battlecruiser, with ages-long list of skills to train for it... would be likely one of the least i'd pick. It's literally like hunting flies with barrage artillery. :<
"Plus, with heavy missiles(launchers) being boosted and with damage bonus to all missiles, basically no HAC or other ship with specific resistances will be safe.
Single 25% damage bonus means the performance equal to that of Cerberus when she's not using kinetic missiles (which get the damage bonus in addition to regular rof bonus) ... meaning, the kind of damage output that any ship post-RMR tanks easily. (and the very same post-RMR tanking means basically no weak resistance spots to exploit)
"Which means I'm dropping whatever I've been training and starting BC5. "
Well, good luck i guess. it's good at least someone will enjoy this misguided idea for field command ship o.O;
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:43:00 -
[55]
Hm.
Some of the bonuses seem to be fixed and some per level..can't really believe a 40km web range on a cruiser tbh..
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.29 22:52:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Hm.
Some of the bonuses seem to be fixed and some per level..can't really believe a 40km web range on a cruiser tbh..
But, if that's the case and it's just 40%, why not just make it 10% per level rather than a one-time bonus of 40%?
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2005.11.29 23:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Pottsey
I just checked again and the resistanceÆs are identical to assault resistanceÆs. Your the 4th person to tell me I am wrong, I just donÆt get it.
[EM/Expl/Kin/Therm] All base armor resists.
Zealot [60/80/62.5/35]
Absolution [60/70/53.12/35]
Damnation [60/80/62.5/35]
So basically, the combat command ship (field command ship) has resists lower then a hac, and the group command ship has same resists.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.11.29 23:07:00 -
[58]
This brings a wide smile on my Intaki face!
/me starts the squadron training immediately
pwn you soonÖ!
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.11.29 23:29:00 -
[59]
Judging by those insanely fantastic stats, CCP should up the skill requirements to HAC V or something.
I dread the day everyone flies around in one of these. It will remove the point of flying in anything but a T2 BC.
Im sad to say this, but HACs are no longer top of the line and, hopefully, this will bring their price right down
____________________________________________
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FFGR
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Posted - 2005.11.30 00:12:00 -
[60]
Edited by: FFGR on 30/11/2005 00:13:44
Originally by: Denrace
Judging by those insanely fantastic stats, CCP should up the skill requirements to HAC V or something.
No thank you, I would like to fly my t2 BC without requiring Logistics V or HAC V.
They are already hard enough to train for as you need skills based on charisma and leadership skills, that I doupt that even 1% of the server will have leadership at V
edit: damn Jin you told it first :>
Insanity |
Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.11.30 00:12:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Denrace
Judging by those insanely fantastic stats, CCP should up the skill requirements to HAC V or something.
I dread the day everyone flies around in one of these. It will remove the point of flying in anything but a T2 BC.
Im sad to say this, but HACs are no longer top of the line and, hopefully, this will bring their price right down
*cough* Having just done the calculations for the training I personally need for the Astarte, I beg to disagree:
I have a charisma of 24,84 and willpower 19 (+2 implants on both). It will take me 35 days to train Leadership V (now at IV) and Squadron Command V (from scratch).
It will also take me close to 40 days to train Battlecruisers V, and lest not forget that I already have HAC skills.
For comparison, training to be able to pilot a dreadnought requires racial battleship V and advanced spaceship command V, which combined take less time to train than the abovementioned skills required for the T2 Battlecruisers (assuming same level of prerequisite skills to start with).
Of course the comparison is not completely reliable as it takes a lot more to pilot a dread properly (mainly jump drives, capital guns, defenses and the siege module), but in my opinion it clearly demonstrates the amount of specialization and investment required, especially when not everyone is born with 12 charisma, nor can you pilot a ship with only the mandatory skills to sit on the captain's seat.
So, in short: no, the skill requirements are fine. We won't be seeing these ships around every gate for a long long time.
There's my .07 kredits.
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.30 00:17:00 -
[62]
Of course, CCP did already screw over the people who were born with high willpower for the purpose of attaining leadership skills... now only four of the skills uses willpower as a primary attribute... sooo willpower went from being a major attribute for leaders to... merchants? Huh?
Let's also remember the time it'll take to properly train up the warfare links as well. I'd say the amount of skills they have so far makes good sense.
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.11.30 00:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/11/2005 22:33:41
"The fact of the matter is: the Nighthawk, being a missile ship (0-70km damage) with those bonuses, will be much more difficult to tackle than any turret ship, Eagle included. It'll basically be an interceptor-pwn-mobile."
Yes, which is the very reason i don't understand what's so exciting about it. The queue of interceptor-pwn-mobiles is already long, and there's brand new class of ships designed for exactly that, about to be added to the game.
Notice the description "Field Command" ... it's designed to get down and dirty, up close and personal along with all the combat ships under your command. What's so bad about a ship that is this survivable (all the anti-ceptor ships you mentioned aren't as good in that by a long shot) and can kick both inty and non-inty ass alike?
If i wanted to pwn interceptors then the field command gang support ship as slow as battle-cruiser, with ages-long list of skills to train for it... would be likely one of the least I'd pick. It's literally like hunting flies with barrage artillery. :<
Really, who cares how slow this ship is? Its main weapons are fast enough to get the job done, and that's all that matters. Its ability to protect larger ships against the smaller ones is golden to me. What may seem misguided (another term for useless?)
to you may be great to somebody else (me), and who are you (or me) to decide what's good for everybody?
"Plus, with heavy missiles(launchers) being boosted and with damage bonus to all missiles, basically no HAC or other ship with specific resistances will be safe.
Single 25% damage bonus means the performance equal to that of Cerberus when she's not using kinetic missiles (which get the damage bonus in addition to regular rof bonus) ... meaning, the kind of damage output that any ship post-RMR tanks easily. (and the very same post-RMR tanking means basically no weak resistance spots to exploit)
The Nighthawk has 6 launcher and 1 turret slots as opposed to Cerberus' 5 and 1 utility.
"Which means I'm dropping whatever I've been training and starting BC5. "
Well, good luck i guess. it's good at least someone will enjoy this misguided idea for field command ship o.O;
Don't worry. I'm not going to focus on that particular ship. Once I train the core skills for one, I'm pretty much trained for all (cept 4 for cruiser 5 I guess, but I have had Cal Cruiser 5 for a looong time, so no training time lost there)
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.11.30 00:23:00 -
[64]
---------------
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.30 01:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shira d'Radonis
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Hm.
Some of the bonuses seem to be fixed and some per level..can't really believe a 40km web range on a cruiser tbh..
But, if that's the case and it's just 40%, why not just make it 10% per level rather than a one-time bonus of 40%?
First-pass ship descriptions, as Oveur noted probly. I hope.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.30 01:31:00 -
[66]
Edited by: j0sephine on 30/11/2005 01:33:42
"What's so bad about a ship that is this survivable (all the anti-ceptor ships you mentioned aren't as good in that by a long shot) and can kick both inty and non-inty ass alike?"
I dunno; it's probably disappointment with getting yet another Caldari ship for which the main combat focus is shooting support. When i read the field battlecruisers are supposed to be some mean firepower fiends, i sort of expected to get that, a mean firepower fiend with some light gang support abilities. Not a Ferox capable of hitting frigates for bit more damage
('bit more' because at 85 m explosion radius and 1.7 km/sec explosion velocity you still ain't going to hit them for that much -- the bonus results in dealing ~20% of heavy missile damage to mwd'ing inty, instead of 5% ... which translates to ~50 hp per missile before resistances kick in, or ~5 dps per launcher)
"Really, who cares how slow this ship is?"
Usually the rest of gang you're tagging with ^^ bring your fat-ass vessel into a group of HACs and frigates, and see how much they'll enjoy it. Of course, if you're going with group of battleships then it's not big deal, but the battleship velocity (or lack thereof) is about main reason why so many people prefer to leave them at the station nowadays.
"The Nighthawk has 6 launcher and 1 turret slots as opposed to Cerberus' 5 and 1 utility."
Yes, but it's also supposed to be gang support ship, and these modules take high slots. Expecting at least 2-3 of these high slots to be taken by said gang mods, so you can switch (or maybe use all) types of support your group could use... is not unreasonable.
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KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2005.11.30 01:35:00 -
[67]
The nighthawk needs one of its non-dmg missle bonuses changed.
It fills a niche that is highly unsuitable for a ship of its type. Especially once you consider that it uses heavy missle launchers.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 01:40:00 -
[68]
lol by the time the current hac people are done skilling for the t2 BC CCP will bring out the t2 BSes making everyone go omgwow and chase the shiny stuff. Those who train only in the prereqs will have 1.5 million skillpoints stuck in squadron command giving 0 bonuses at all. Whereas all the other t2 ship prereqs usually help in general for any ship, ie. wpn upgrades 5, squadron command only applies when your using gang mods.
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.30 02:10:00 -
[69]
For someone like me who happened to be training squad command anyway (and is 3 days from completion), I've no complaints :)
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 02:44:00 -
[70]
I'm done with squadron command 5 and hac 4... BC 5 finishes in 2 weeks... so no complaints here either :P logistics 4 on the other hand adds another 15 days to skill training time but meh w/e. Balanced stats 4tw.
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.11.30 04:33:00 -
[71]
Looking forward to being able to instantly drop a bubble on a small fleet, get some 40km web ships in there to web them and sit afar with your sniper ships... Almost like shooting fish in a pond.
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Guapo Suave
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Posted - 2005.11.30 05:06:00 -
[72]
Originally by: SengH
I'm done with squadron command 5 and hac 4... BC 5 finishes in 2 weeks... so no complaints here either :P logistics 4 on the other hand adds another 15 days to skill training time but meh w/e. Balanced stats 4tw.
The ships won't even be out before you finish.
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Officially Mars Vigilia news correspondent. |
Jokastis
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Posted - 2005.11.30 05:35:00 -
[73]
I'm sorry...
Where are you guys finding the stats on these ships?
Sisi?
Website?
If there is a website can you list it please??
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 05:41:00 -
[74]
Their on sisi market atm
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 07:25:00 -
[75]
updated so you can actually see all the relevant stats.
-------------
Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.11.30 07:52:00 -
[76]
Looks fun, but:
Quote:
Eos: Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in CPU need of Drone Control Units
does not quite make sense with a puny 50 m3 drone bay. Maybe some rethinking is in order here?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 07:54:00 -
[77]
If you take a close look youll notice inconstencies and off numbers and stuff.
Obviously the figures arent even finished yet, let alone close to final.
For example, many Field and Fleet ships have the exact same HP and cap, when obv a khanid ship would usually have less armor and more shields than a crthum one.
Also, some are still missing some slots.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.30 08:38:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Pottsey on 30/11/2005 08:39:24
öZealot [60/80/62.5/35]
Absolution [60/70/53.12/35]
Damnation [60/80/62.5/35]
(EDIT: above numbers without gang assit)
So basically, the combat command ship (field command ship) has resists lower then a hac, and the group command ship has same resistsö
Now add on the ship bonus as you cannot fly the ships without the bonus.
Zealot [60/80/62.5/35] (HAC)
Absolution [70/77.5/ 64.9/51.2](Field Command Ship)
Damnation [60/85/71.9/51.2](Fleet Command)
I donÆt know about you, but to me both the field and fleet command appear to have better resistanceÆs then that HAC your comparing them to. Not worse resistance and it looks even worse for the HAC if you compare gang assist with the ships bonusÆs. So I stand by what I say all of the Fleet command and half of the Field Command have better then HAC resistance. The 2 ships that dont still have decent resistance with gang assit.
ôSo, in short: no, the skill requirements are fine. We won't be seeing these ships around every gate for a long long time.ö
DonÆt forget some of us are leadership based pilots. Last count there was only about 700 of us but we are out there. Myself and a few others do have Leadership 5, Squadron Command 5, BC 5 and the advanced leaderships skills at 5.
Sure it takes a while for a combat pilot to fly these ships but they are not meant for combat people. The people the ships are meant for donÆt have a problem with training as they already have the skills.
P.S I wonder how many people forget to add these ships to there scanners. Or will the patch auto tick the box so they are listed.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 08:43:00 -
[79]
Psh.
I'm no leadership pilot, and i dont intend to train any other leadership skill apart from the 2 required to fly a CC.
Good for you if you have it, but dont go assuming theyre designed for the current leadership pilots, cause they aint.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.30 08:48:00 -
[80]
they don't have a lot of grid...
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 08:56:00 -
[81]
Edited by: keepiru on 30/11/2005 08:58:01
Originally by: HippoKing
they don't have a lot of grid...
Wha?
7 Heavy Neutron II + 10MN MWD II + Med Injector II + Med rep II with no grid mods aint much grid?
If anything, most of them give solid grounds for a hac grid boost argument.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:07:00 -
[82]
ôGood for you if you have it, but dont go assuming theyre designed for the current leadership pilots, cause they aint.ö
How do you work that one out? They are designed for us leadership pilots. Not only do they need advanced leadership skills to fly but they have bonusÆs to the amount of advanced leadership modules you can fit and bonusÆs to the advanced leadership modules. They even talk about leadership modules on the ships text.
I really dont see how someone can say these are not for current leadership pilots.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:07:00 -
[83]
Originally by: keepiru
Psh.
I'm no leadership pilot, and i dont intend to train any other leadership skill apart from the 2 required to fly a CC.
Good for you if you have it, but dont go assuming theyre designed for the current leadership pilots, cause they aint.
Thats 1.5 Mil SP that will have 0 effect at all on your ship. Besides just being a requirement to fly it. If your a low charisma character the time you spend to get it, you can easily have other more useful skills such as adv wpn upgrades 5 or BS 5 and be in line for T2 BSes when they come out. What will be interesting to see if a Gang assist boosted HAC with the correct gang assist boosts will be able to take down a Field command BC.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:08:00 -
[84]
Well, seeing as i am gallente, low charisma is the very least of my attribute problems.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:10:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôGood for you if you have it, but dont go assuming theyre designed for the current leadership pilots, cause they aint.ö
How do you work that one out? They are designed for us leadership pilots. Not only do they need advanced leadership skills to fly but they have bonusÆs to the amount of advanced leadership modules you can fit and bonusÆs to the advanced leadership modules. They even talk about leadership modules on the ships text.
I really dont see how someone can say these are not for current leadership pilots.
Theyre designed to give people leadership ships good enough so that other people apart from a few leadership monomaniac nutjobs will want to train for said leadership skills.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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SengH
|
Posted - 2005.11.30 09:14:00 -
[86]
Edited by: SengH on 30/11/2005 09:17:01
Edited by: SengH on 30/11/2005 09:14:47
Originally by: keepiru
Well, seeing as i am gallente, low charisma is the very least of my attribute problems.
With the new NPC changes it remains to be seen if these will help the missionrunners... with the nossing NPCs if you dont have cap to run the tank/hardeners your still screwed along with the TD/sensor dampening/jamming NPCs. Also the cost of these will probably be 2-3x the BS cost with probably half the payout of a BS. It would still be much more efficent to use a BS for most things rather than a t2 BC. Furthermore any ewar spec ship will shut you down and eat you for lunch in pvp due to their relatively low sensor strength. The beauty however is that you can run gang mods while jammed, so thus it doesnt matter as your primary function which should be deploying gang bonuses is still occuring.
Edit: Ewar filled midslot BSes seem to be the way to go now with mixxed multispecs till ECCMs catch on then TDs/Damps.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:17:00 -
[87]
Primary function in a fleet ship, primary function in a field is dealing a shedload of damage, imo.
But thats irrelevent, really. Im training for one cause i want the field cyclone, y'all do w/e you wants.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: keepiru
Primary function in a fleet ship, primary function in a field is dealing a shedload of damage, imo.
But thats irrelevent, really. Im training for one cause i want the field cyclone, y'all do w/e you wants.
The low # of lowslots is the cyclone chassis's undoing.. that and its low sensor strength is its main flaw. In the current TQ world, discounting the presence of ewar is often fatal.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:26:00 -
[89]
Edited by: keepiru on 30/11/2005 09:27:20
5 lows?
3x Gyro II, DC II, and Sensor Backup II? dont sound bad to me...
Its not perfect, but its no different from a vaga, and that's hardly a bad ship..
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:34:00 -
[90]
Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 30/11/2005 09:27:20
5 lows?
3x Gyro II, DC II, and Sensor Backup II? dont sound bad to me...
Its not perfect, but its no different from a vaga, and that's hardly a bad ship..
1. you dont have the speed of a vaga to get away if things go wrong... (Key point)
2. if your using Artys , TDs will shut you down VERY fast, if your using ACs you'll have to gimp your tank to fit the mwd
3. your going to be primary flying a 200-300mil ship rather than a BS (same reason why faction ships get called primarys)
4. For those who use em, no space to put WCS
Other points to note
1. can you fit 7x 720IIs without any grid/cpu mods? seems highly unlikely, not quite sure though.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:41:00 -
[91]
Do command/gang bonii work off grid?
Looks to me like quite a neato idea to train up a second account, park it in a SS (maybe even cloaked) drop the CPU priority to almost none, and then gang and go missioning or raiding.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.11.30 09:47:00 -
[92]
Edited by: SengH on 30/11/2005 09:50:33
yes they do work off grid but running more than 2-3 and you run into a cap issue. For mission running you can just leave them running the whole time but for pvping its a totally different ballgame involving time and alot of micromanagement
Edit: you'd need 3 accounts to make it work right 1 to mission run 1 logistics/carrier and 1 Command BC... fill the command BC with command procs and have the logistics refil cap. you'll be using 800 cap every 10s so better hope those cap transfers are up to the job heh. Your command BC would be running 3x Skirmish warfare mods, 3x armor/siege warfare, 1x resistance of armor/siege, 1x sensor strength boost/1x sensor booster boost. You'd have some insane resists, but the costs required to run it wouldnt be cheap.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.30 10:03:00 -
[93]
ôyes they do work off grid but running more than 2-3 and you run into a cap issue.ö
I donÆt find it a problem on my T1 active tanked BC. So a T2 with the new BC improvements or a T1 with the new improvements should be ok. 3 modules is only 15cap/sec. I can run two modules and a tank with target painters pretty well or 3 gang and no tank. Cap is not the problem Cpu and Powergrid is, the only reason I donÆt have a tank is I run out of powergrid and CPU to fit anything with 3 gang assit and 2 command pros.
I believe if you donÆt tank and sit in a safe spot can run 3+ none stop without a problem and without anyone transferring cap.
T2 ships should be able to run 6 modules without any problem as thatÆs only 30cap/sec. That and with the ships being more effective as a passive shield tank then active you could always passive tank and use up all that extra cap on gang assist.
Note: while writing this I just realized I am a drone pilot so my weapons donÆt take up cap. Perhaps itÆs different for laser uses.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
FoRGyL
|
Posted - 2005.11.30 10:16:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôyes they do work off grid but running more than 2-3 and you run into a cap issue.ö
I donÆt find it a problem on my T1 active tanked BC. So a T2 with the new BC improvements or a T1 with the new improvements should be ok. 3 modules is only 15cap/sec. I can run two modules and a tank with target painters pretty well or 3 gang and no tank. Cap is not the problem Cpu and Powergrid is, the only reason I donÆt have a tank is I run out of powergrid and CPU to fit anything with 3 gang assit and 2 command pros.
I believe if you donÆt tank and sit in a safe spot can run 3+ none stop without a problem and without anyone transferring cap.
T2 ships should be able to run 6 modules without any problem as thatÆs only 30cap/sec. That and with the ships being more effective as a passive shield tank then active you could always passive tank and use up all that extra cap on gang assist.
Note: while writing this I just realized I am a drone pilot so my weapons donÆt take up cap. Perhaps itÆs different for laser uses.
May I ask what u have in Will and Char attri?
-out-
*********************************************************
Pay or don't!
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Jared VonBargen
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Posted - 2005.11.30 11:42:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units.
Being a Marine myself, and conincidently, just finishing a tour with a MEU(SOC), those recon guys are no joke. That wikipedia is alright, but there is no way to describe their effectiveness. Their main goal is to never be seen. If they are located, they view their objective failed in the first part. We tested them a few times, we would set up little 'terrorist' camps out in the woods and they had to hide in the forest and observe us and relay information to the infantry to make an effective strike. Through 2 camps and an entire week, we never saw any of the 2 man units. There were reported after the exam that there were at least 5 units operating at all times. Simply amazing skills.
Guess thats like, ultra ECM, sensor masking in this game....
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.11.30 12:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jared VonBargen
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 29/11/2005 17:47:33
Would someone please tell CCP that Force Recon is combat recon? You probably don't want to **** off a USMC MEU(SOC) with claiming Force Recon aren't combat units.
Being a Marine myself, and conincidently, just finishing a tour with a MEU(SOC), those recon guys are no joke. That wikipedia is alright, but there is no way to describe their effectiveness. Their main goal is to never be seen. If they are located, they view their objective failed in the first part. We tested them a few times, we would set up little 'terrorist' camps out in the woods and they had to hide in the forest and observe us and relay information to the infantry to make an effective strike. Through 2 camps and an entire week, we never saw any of the 2 man units. There were reported after the exam that there were at least 5 units operating at all times. Simply amazing skills.
Guess thats like, ultra ECM, sensor masking in this game....
just by hearing that I want to fly one of those force recon thingys
-------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 12:59:00 -
[97]
Originally by: SengH
Other points to note
1. can you fit 7x 720IIs without any grid/cpu mods? seems highly unlikely, not quite sure though.
Needs a PDU.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Mallik Hendrake
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Posted - 2005.11.30 13:37:00 -
[98]
I am putting this in capitals so I hope CCP Sees.
WHY DO THE CALDARI ONES HAVE FEWER SLOTS THAN EVERYONE ELSE?
Note the sleipir: 18 slots
Astarte: 17 slots
Nighthawk: 16 slots
Is it RP excuse that Caldari can't count very high or wtf?
--------------------------------------------
"A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_
Mallik Hendrake
E X O D U S
[I do not speak for E X O or IRON] |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.11.30 13:44:00 -
[99]
ôMay I ask what u have in Will and Char attri?ö
Sure Willpower is 18 and Charisma is 24
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
keepiru
|
Posted - 2005.11.30 13:55:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Mallik Hendrake
I am putting this in capitals so I hope CCP Sees.
WHY DO THE CALDARI ONES HAVE FEWER SLOTS THAN EVERYONE ELSE?
Note the sleipir: 18 slots
Astarte: 17 slots
Nighthawk: 16 slots
Is it RP excuse that Caldari can't count very high or wtf?
Because the stats arent final yet and not all the ships have gotten their extra slots.
Also it seems ccp hasnt decided on exactly how many slots they should have and if they should all have the same slots.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Mallik Hendrake
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Posted - 2005.11.30 13:58:00 -
[101]
Let us hope you're right :)
--------------------------------------------
"A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_
Mallik Hendrake
E X O D U S
[I do not speak for E X O or IRON] |
Armi Tage
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Posted - 2005.11.30 14:52:00 -
[102]
ok who else thinks that the slot layout is wrong?
gallente got 17 slots each, check
amarr got 17 slots each, check
minmatar got 18 slots each (in line with the cyclone having one more slot than the other BCs, no complaint here), check
caldari got 18 and 16, with the missileboat getting the shaft or are there boni on the nighthawk considered good enough to justify one slot less than all other t2 BCs?
maybe just a typo?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.30 14:56:00 -
[103]
Im getting itred of saying this, the stats are not final. Glaring, obvious example, the nighthawk having the same slots as a ferox...
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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FoRGyL
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Posted - 2005.11.30 15:00:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôMay I ask what u have in Will and Char attri?ö
Sure Willpower is 18 and Charisma is 24
Ty, trying to figure out what to go for. coz I have 18 in char and 26 in will and that squdron thing to Lv5 is tuff nut to break.(rank 6 skill  )
So ty.
-out-
*********************************************************
Pay or don't!
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grizouh
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Posted - 2005.11.30 17:04:00 -
[105]
Edited by: grizouh on 30/11/2005 17:07:59
Originally by: Malena
Is anyone else disappointed with the bonusses for the fleet command ships? I would have preferred something that stacked a bit more gang ability into them, or at the very least, a static bonus for the 4 of them...like the ability to control one more gang module, or 1.5% bonus to a different kind of warfare link.
apart from the idea that these two bc t2 are designed to be able to use 3 (hac) or 4 (log) modules at once:
yes, I am. And I also do not like the idea that the ship has only a restricted bonus for one kind of modul type eg the caldari vulture for siege warfare links...
really hoping that they will adjust this abit into the direction of leadership skilled characters (i do not care about any weapon boni) or i can/will stick to my good old ferox which is a lot cheaper and safes me a lot of time training for the logistics bc t2.
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.30 23:38:00 -
[106]
Here here! 300 million and all that training time is a lot to ask for a more durable battlecruiser.
-----------------------------------------------
ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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SHYBUM1
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Posted - 2005.12.01 02:05:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Oveur
Oh, and the descriptions actually aren't final, Gnauton is doing a second revision just now.
The Fleet Command for example can use three leadership modules, that isn't mentioned in the current descriptions.
well as I see it the T2 BC is a nice ship but if it comes stock with 3 gang mods why did i train the squad command to 5? unless the following is possible...
the use of mulitple command mods in order to use more than 5 gang mods on one ship which in turn turns your ship into a gang mod king and all you need to do is put a reasonable tank on and your ship...is there a max gang mod set per ship?...i haven't been on sisi to know what the specs are now nor do i know all the reqired skills to fly one.
with all that said am i going off the wrong end of the spectrum or have i hit on something usful and mostlikely correct?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 02:29:00 -
[108]
"is there a max gang mod set per ship?...i haven't been on sisi to know what the specs are now nor do i know all the reqired skills to fly one."
If i understand it right, there's fixed number of gang modules your ship can run simultaneously at given time, and the command processor increases that limit by 1 for each processor running.
The tech.1 battlecruisers and field command ships have that base limit set to 1 gang module, the fleet command ships have it set to 3 modules.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.01 02:41:00 -
[109]
Yup, that's correct.
OFC, the cap cost of them is the spotlight that shows me the cap figures for these ships havent been updated yet (theyre still on t1 figures last i checked). 3 gang modules are not insignificant when it comes to cap draw.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Flipidy Floo
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Posted - 2005.12.01 04:38:00 -
[110]
Originally by: j0sephine
"<sigh>
Methinks a new Cerberus thread is in order."
Sadly, yes; can't help but wonder what's the point of giving 'all out combat' battlecruiser a bonus which only affects targets smaller than cruiser and second bonus which only affects targets moving at interceptor-like speeds. Could swear there's enough ships with the very role of killing small crafts already, and that something as "high tech" as tech.2 battlecruiser would be better off with more flexible set of benefits... :/
I can think of a Great reason for it. The new assault missles if they are torp like.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 04:49:00 -
[111]
"I can think of a Great reason for it. The new assault missles if they are torp like."
Except these boosts are applied specifically to heavy missiles, and new assault missiles are not only (likely) completely different missile class, but they're supposed to be shot with assault launcher i.e. completely different launcher from one a ship with heavy missile boosts would use..? o.O;
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.01 05:20:00 -
[112]
I expect when assault missiles come out the bonii will be changed to affect both.
I think its understandable why they dont apply to assault launchers, tbh. Right now theyre like tracking bonii for medium guns.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 05:45:00 -
[113]
"Right now theyre like tracking bonii for medium guns."
Hmm i guess you could look at these boosts like at equivalent of tracking bonus, but i really hope this isn't what the idea behind them actually is.
Medium guns can have quite a bit of trouble getting targets of their 'intended' size i.e. cruiser, which move with transversal velocity similar to cruiser-like speed. That's why tracking bonus helps the guns.
But heavy missiles have actually no issues with hitting targets of 'intended' size -- their explosion radius is enough to do damage to a cruiser, and a cruiser won't really reach the speeds where damage reduction from outrunning explosion velocity starts to apply, unless maybe when it uses the MWD. That's why missiles do less damage 'out of the box' than turrets do.
So if these boosts are supposed to be like tracking bonus to medium turrets, so they can reliably hit medium sized targets... then they're obsolete, because there's no issue for medium launcher with hitting medium-sized ships in the first place. And unlike tracking bonus to medium turrets, they don't increase damage (by reducing number of 'missed' shots) to such targets for heavy missiles ... o.O;
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.01 06:24:00 -
[114]
Perhaps i was unclear.
I meant tracking as in it helps hit fast targets better.
And regarding medium turrets because heavyes are the only real cruiser missile launcher, assaults being a bastard son of a goat atm.
Thats why the bonuses apply stricltly to heavy missiles.
The comparison and parallels stop there. Trying to draw paralells between the precision and explosion speed skills and relative bonuses of missiles and similar skill/bonii for turrets is pointless in my opinion, apart from in the broadest of senses.
As far the usefulness of the bonuses... i guess its personal. Its a specialised ship that sits at medium range and kills small to medium targets with a very strong tank.
You might wish for a different "direction" as far as its specialty, different from the current "medium-range space superiority platform", but i dont think the ship is weak at all. Id love to have one in a gang with me.
Youll notice that while some of the other field command cruisers do better damage, none of them has an optimal bonus. Theyre all either short or at best medium range ships, with a strong tank, and very slow.
Using one solo in pvp would be very risky, as you can kite them in some battleships. Imho, when that part of the equation is considered the nighthawk emerges as one of the stronger fieldCCs.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Darth Revanant
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Posted - 2005.12.01 07:54:00 -
[115]
Originally by: grizouh
Edited by: grizouh on 30/11/2005 18:04:52
Edited by: grizouh on 30/11/2005 17:07:59
Originally by: Malena
Is anyone else disappointed with the bonusses for the fleet command ships? I would have preferred something that stacked a bit more gang ability into them, or at the very least, a static bonus for the 4 of them...like the ability to control one more gang module, or 1.5% bonus to a different kind of warfare link.
apart from the idea that these two bc t2 are designed to be able to use 3 (hac) or 4 (log) modules at once (which has been stated in the "your battlecruiser und you" thread):
yes, I am. I do not like the idea that the ship has only a restricted bonus for one kind of modul type eg the caldari vulture for siege warfare links...
really hoping that they will adjust this abit, at least the logistic types, into the direction of leadership skilled characters (i do not care about any weapon boni) or i can/will stick to my good old ferox which is a lot cheaper and safes me a lot of time training for the logistics bc t2.
I agree. The fleet command ship should have a bonus to the effectiveness of all warfare links. 'Cause honestly, I don't think there's any warfare division that's good enough to run all 3 of its links before running any of the others. I'm armored warfare spec., but I'd like to run a skirmish or information link too. And my corp is amarr only. For corps that don't restrict their ships, it's going to be pretty useless to run all the warfare links of just one branch and none of any of the others.
_______________
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.12.01 08:23:00 -
[116]
Can anyone verify from firsthand exp. that gangmods work offgrid? I'd been told repeatedly that it was just within the grid.
----------------------------
T2 Destroyers: a proposal
Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.01 08:52:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Vishnej
Can anyone verify from firsthand exp. that gangmods work offgrid? I'd been told repeatedly that it was just within the grid.
you guys already have experienced it just not in your gang
and yes there is a gang mod combination of 3 that is considerably overpowered in fleet warfare... btw information warfare is not as useless as it seems. Its a very good counter to the burn eden tactic of dampening as using fuzzy math it gives a bigger sensor boosters a bigger range boost than you'd believe from the stats (a single T2 sensor booster gives a 80% increase in range) (confirmed not to be a bug with a BH in fact he gave me the fuzzy math eqn  ). All niche but micromanagement for gang mods is the key as I said before.
Information warfare is all very niche but applied correctly and at the right time can make useless the best laid plans of EW :) Very interesting set of mods too.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:36:00 -
[118]
This a good post. Should be stickied.
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MECHcore
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Posted - 2005.12.05 11:39:00 -
[119]
I want a Vulture , its like a big eagle 
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.12.05 12:07:00 -
[120]
And you'll stuff your Vulture full of blasters and come tell us how it's better than an Astarte?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.05 12:44:00 -
[121]
You wont be doing much of anything with these ships unless they change their cap figures.
Atm they have the same cap as the T1 variants, and the slots, pg/cpu and hp distribution look unfinished too.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.12.05 15:28:00 -
[122]
If I remember correctly, the MK2 T1 battlecruisers got a 20% increase in capacitor, and the T2 battlecruisers get a 50% increase over pre-MK2 BCs. Plenty enough to tank non-stop with just one or two cap-related modules, if you use only one med armor repairer/med shield booster.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.05 15:55:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Shadowsword
If I remember correctly, the MK2 T1 battlecruisers got a 20% increase in capacitor, and the T2 battlecruisers get a 50% increase over pre-MK2 BCs. Plenty enough to tank non-stop with just one or two cap-related modules, if you use only one med armor repairer/med shield booster.
Firstly, do not confuse the un-nerfing of BCs cap with a boost.
It merely makes their cap adequate for their dimensions and slots in comparison to cruisers and battleships.
As to the CCs cap:
--------------------
Zealot w. Med Cap Battery II and 2x CPR:
((1200+336)*1.25)/(268*0.75*0.8*0.8)=1920/128.64=14.9
Absolution w. Large Peroxide and 2x CPR:
((2700+480)*1.25)/(600*0.75*0.8*0.8)=3975/288=13.8 <- large batteries utterly useless on these ships
Absolution w. Cap Recharger II and 2x CPR:
(2700*1.25)/(600*0.75*0.8*0.8*0.8)=3375/230.4=14.64
Zealot w. 2x CPR:
(1200*1.25)/(268*0.75*0.8*0.8)=1500/128.64=11.66
Absolution w. 2x CPR:
(2700*1.25)/(600*0.75*0.8*0.8)=3375/288=11.71
--------------------
Now take into consideration the absolution has 50% more guns, with the same dmg and rof bonuses, has twice the signature radius, is about 50% slower, and on top should - in theory - be designed to run 1 gang assist module (50cap/10sec).
And then tell me again the cap on these things is ok.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.12.05 16:36:00 -
[124]
Rather than taking a Zealot as point of reference, you should compare it with others ships, like for example tier1 battleships.
An Armageddon has a barely superior average cap recharge, yet it has large modules to activate. And the not-so-uber cap recharge time may exist for balancing purposes, as a T2 BC hiding in system and yet giving it's gang the benefits or 4-5 gang assist modules may be a little too much...
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.05 16:38:00 -
[125]
A field BC is supposed to fight.
How it going to do that with such pathetic cap?
Who would pay 300m+ for a combat ship thats slow, big, has bad range and awful cap on top?
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Arti K
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:47:00 -
[126]
It's balanced.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:49:00 -
[127]
why does the t2 missiel ferox has bonus to HEAVY Missiles?
aint u suposed to fit cruise missiels on the ferox
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:59:00 -
[128]
Originally by: The Wizz117
why does the t2 missiel ferox has bonus to HEAVY Missiles?
aint u suposed to fit cruise missiels on the ferox
no
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.12.05 19:48:00 -
[129]
Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 30/11/2005 07:19:15
Nighthawk 7/5/4, 1/6, 690/555
Name: Nighthawk
Hull: Ferox
Role: Field Command Ship
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need
Highs: 7
Mids: 5
Lows: 4
Turrets: 1
Missile: 6
Powergid: 690MW
CPU: 555tf
Hull: 2500
Armor: 3188, 60/10/53.12/79.37%
Shield: 3125/1000, 0/60/62.5/70%
Cap: 2400/533.3
Drone: 25m3
Max Velocity: 140m/s
Targeting Range: 60km
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Name: Vulture
Hull: Ferox
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need
Highs: 7
Mids: 6
Lows: 5
Turrets: 5
Missile: 5
Powergid: 1100MW
CPU: 510tf
Hull: 3600
Armor: 3150, 60/10/62.5/86.25%
Shield: 4500/1000, 0/60/70/80%
Cap: 2250/500
Drone: 25m3
Max Velocity: 140m/s
Targeting Range: 60km
CCP should change the ship desciptions. These don't get 5% to all resists per level, just to kinetic and thermal. There are 0 em resistence bonii, and those are always appreciated by caldari Though teh full 5% to all resists would definately be appreciated
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.05 20:51:00 -
[130]
No, the desc is correct.
The res bonii are not pre-applied like assault frig bonii.
Theyre on top of base stats like the sacrilege and the new eagle.
And no, that cap is not anywhere near balanced. What they do is make the ships ****.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.12.06 03:30:00 -
[131]
I want to thank the OP for taking the time to copy all the stats into this post. It's going to take me forever to get into one but it'll be worth it.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.06 16:27:00 -
[132]
Updated to v2.09.3767 fitting figures.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.12.06 17:17:00 -
[133]
The cap NEEDS to be looked at. It's extremely hard to maintain the Zealots 4 weapons with good skills and still have cap left over to rep or do anything else.
Now imagine trying to do it with 7 guns and running a couple of gang mods (you know, there intended purpose?)
They NEED more cap. The original t1 varients needed more cap, but the T2 do a WHOLE lot more.
GIVE THEM MORE CAP!
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
Aleis
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Posted - 2005.12.06 17:51:00 -
[134]
Only problem i see is that the people that intend to use these ships for legitamite Gang use are now going to have to now compete wiht the Mass of of PvP pilots to get their ships. And I know a lot of Pvp players already have the leaedership skills as they offer free bonuses whenever your in a gang.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.06 17:55:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Aleis
Only problem i see is that the people that intend to use these ships for legitamite Gang use are now going to have to now compete wiht the Mass of of PvP pilots to get their ships. And I know a lot of Pvp players already have the leaedership skills as they offer free bonuses whenever your in a gang.
Fleet command version might be rarer.... as not many ppl have logistics trained up ... that is the only version with the gang mod effectiveness boost anyways so the competition for those might not be as much.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.06 18:13:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Aleis
Only problem i see is that the people that intend to use these ships for legitamite Gang use are now going to have to now compete wiht the Mass of of PvP pilots to get their ships. And I know a lot of Pvp players already have the leaedership skills as they offer free bonuses whenever your in a gang.
If you were a HAC pilot, considering the increased importance of cap and increased lenght of battles in RMR, would *you* train for something that uses 25-50% more cap, has ~2x the signature, 50% less range, is ~33% slower on afterburner/mwd and has the exact same cap recharge as your hac, and costs something in the region of 200-300m?
I know i wont be training for one if those cap figures go live.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.12.06 18:38:00 -
[137]
how come the nighhawk doesnt get any extra slots yet the sliepnur gets an extra low?
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.12.06 18:49:00 -
[138]
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Aleis
Only problem i see is that the people that intend to use these ships for legitamite Gang use are now going to have to now compete wiht the Mass of of PvP pilots to get their ships. And I know a lot of Pvp players already have the leaedership skills as they offer free bonuses whenever your in a gang.
If you were a HAC pilot, considering the increased importance of cap and increased lenght of battles in RMR, would *you* train for something that uses 25-50% more cap, has ~2x the signature, 50% less range, is ~33% slower on afterburner/mwd and has the exact same cap recharge as your hac, and costs something in the region of 200-300m?
I know i wont be training for one if those cap figures go live.
Comparing the Astarte vs the Deimos, the Astarte looks like a pretty decent ship, especially since you still have double damage bonuses (But with 2 more turret slots), and aren't going to be using the falloff bonus THAT much, and the better tanking+extra med makes up for the lack of MWD bonus (medium electrochem ftw).
Astarte w/MWD - 13.5 cap/sec base... deimos w/MWD is 15.39179...
Astarte won't be able to run any gang assist mods in a blaster config though. 'tis a problem.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.06 18:50:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Aleis
Only problem i see is that the people that intend to use these ships for legitamite Gang use are now going to have to now compete wiht the Mass of of PvP pilots to get their ships. And I know a lot of Pvp players already have the leaedership skills as they offer free bonuses whenever your in a gang.
If you were a HAC pilot, considering the increased importance of cap and increased lenght of battles in RMR, would *you* train for something that uses 25-50% more cap, has ~2x the signature, 50% less range, is ~33% slower on afterburner/mwd and has the exact same cap recharge as your hac, and costs something in the region of 200-300m?
I know i wont be training for one if those cap figures go live.
Comparing the Astarte vs the Deimos, the Astarte looks like a pretty decent ship, especially since you still have double damage bonuses (But with 2 more turret slots), and aren't going to be using the falloff bonus THAT much, and the better tanking+extra med makes up for the lack of MWD bonus (medium electrochem ftw).
Astarte w/MWD - 13.5 cap/sec base... deimos w/MWD is 15.39179...
Astarte won't be able to run any gang assist mods in a blaster config though. 'tis a problem.
1 problem... maneuverability... the deimos is far more maneuverable than the astarte and has a higher chance of getting into range.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.12.06 19:08:00 -
[140]
Originally by: SengH
1 problem... maneuverability... the deimos is far more maneuverable than the astarte and has a higher chance of getting into range.
On the test server my Deimos travels at around 1380m/s, my deios 1050m/s, and acceleration isn't any worse. Deimos is a pig, and the Brutix on the test server isn't much more of one - I am ASSUMING that the command cruisers aren't any worse than the BCs (HACs are actually MORE agile than cruisers). My nav skills suck though.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.12 02:28:00 -
[141]
would someone list the skills currently required to fly these two ships please?
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.12 02:30:00 -
[142]
Racial Cruiser 5
BC 5
Squadron Command 4
Field: HAC 4
Fleet: Logistics 4
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Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
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Delta3000
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Posted - 2005.12.12 03:27:00 -
[143]
Dunno if this has been said before, but how come the 2 best tanking races in the game get the relative boost to their tanking abilities via their Fleets?
Caldari = best shield tankers, Amarr = best armour tankers, they dont need the bonii. The Gallente and Mini's need them more, yet they get stuck with the garbage Info and Skirmish boosts... I don't get it.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.12 03:46:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Delta3000
Dunno if this has been said before, but how come the 2 best tanking races in the game get the relative boost to their tanking abilities via their Fleets?
Caldari = best shield tankers, Amarr = best armour tankers, they dont need the bonii. The Gallente and Mini's need them more, yet they get stuck with the garbage Info and Skirmish boosts... I don't get it.
LOL ... info and skirmish applied correctly are by FAR more overpowered than siege and armored.
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