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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15375
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:06:00 -
[151] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:So little content to justify being called an expansion (which introduces major content).
Other games release expansions to introduce huge amounts of new content That's because other games are about content consumption, whereas EVE is about content generation. As a side-effect, nothing other games do really have any bearing on how expansions work in EVE. For instance, Retribution was one the biggest content patches EVE has had in ages, but if you run on the incorrect assumption that GÇ£expansionGÇ¥ = GÇ£more stuffGÇ¥, then you would miss this fact.
This is why one eve expansion = many many years of expansions for those other games: because the developers of those games have to waste all that time thinking up new stuff for people to consume, rather than alter the game to provide huge amounts of new gameplay.
GǪand that is, once again, why EVE can't have paid-for expansions: because the tools and the gameplay need to be the same for everyone, so the expansions must be mandatory, so you might as well roll the cost up in the subscription. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:11:00 -
[152] - Quote
Man, two days running strong here on the forums. Keep up the great feedback |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
264
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:13:00 -
[153] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:@Doc Fury
geesh,
1:05 mark "descent percentage of our user base" use plex to play.
You of course some how managed to miss the comment at 0:49(ish) "someone still has to buy that plex and inject it into the system" but of course since it doesn't support your argument it can be safely ignored. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:16:00 -
[154] - Quote
Samillian wrote:P3ps1 Max wrote:@Doc Fury
geesh,
1:05 mark "descent percentage of our user base" use plex to play.
You of course some how managed to miss the comment at 0:49(ish) "someone still has to buy that plex" but of course since it doesn't support your argument it can be safely ignored.
I sincerely believe every plex is purchased by players and injected into the game |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
264
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:26:00 -
[155] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:I sincerely believe every plex is purchased by players and injected into the game I do sereiously
Please explain why exactly CCP would place plex on the market that has not already been payed for by a player. I'd be interested to hear your explanation for a behaviour that would be contrary to their financial wellbeing. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Winged Victory Corporation Get Off My Lawn
372
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:I've seen quite a few posts regarding this F2P nonsense. The best avenue to take for the company 'imo', is to charge for an expansion(s). With 1 expansion each year with a set price at 19.99$ along with content updates during the year I don't know if you're completely new to this game, but it's not like EverQuest where an expansion unlocks a new continent that you can't travel to if you didn't buy the expansion, or new dungeons you can't play in.
It would simply be completely unmanageable from a coding perspective for CCP, if there were people playing the game stuck at whatever the game was like the last time they'd bothered to upgrade.
EVE "expansions" are completely unlike the typical expansions it seems you're used to, and not giving them to people who didn't pay would make the game a clusterfrak of enormous proportions in terms of managing the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
674
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:46:00 -
[157] - Quote
Posting in stealth "Hi, I am Sean Decker" thread. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:52:00 -
[158] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:So little content to justify being called an expansion (which introduces major content).
Other games release expansions to introduce huge amounts of new content That's because other games are about content consumption, whereas EVE is about content generation. As a side-effect, nothing other games do really have any bearing on how expansions work in EVE. For instance, Retribution was one the biggest content patches EVE has had in ages, but if you run on the incorrect assumption that GǣexpansionGǥ = Gǣmore stuffGǥ, then you would miss this fact. This is why one eve expansion = many many years of expansions for those other games: because the developers of those games have to waste all that time thinking up new stuff for people to consume, rather than alter the game to provide huge amounts of new gameplay. GǪand that is, once again, why EVE can't have paid-for expansions: because the tools and the gameplay need to be the same for everyone, so the expansions must be mandatory, so you might as well roll the cost up in the subscription.
Nice try at a save, Tippia, but in the end what CCP generates as content isn't worthy to buy -- not enough content to justify it.
Be it for consumption or generation it's too little to buy. It's a patch.
That's the bottom line. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2477
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:54:00 -
[159] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Samillian wrote:P3ps1 Max wrote:@Doc Fury
geesh,
1:05 mark "descent percentage of our user base" use plex to play.
You of course some how managed to miss the comment at 0:49(ish) "someone still has to buy that plex" but of course since it doesn't support your argument it can be safely ignored. I sincerely believe every plex is purchased by players and injected into the game I do sereiously
For the love of... stop this sarcastic **** and accept it.
Yes EVERY SINGLE ONE OF EVERY PLEX EVER IN EXISTENCE WAS BOUGHT BUY REAL MONEY BY SOMEONE.
Here's a run down on how we can tell. Every NPC sell order for anything, be it skills, blueprints, etc have an expiration time of 365 days or similar. This makes then very clearly NPC order as players are only capable of creating orders of 3 months (90 days, 89 days and some change usually being what we see).
There are no NPC sell orders for PLEXes and there never was. There is no where that PLEX can come out of thin air unless a dev were to hack into his own secret playing character.
The problem with the logic of there ever being game-generated PLEX is that every single one would be losing CCP money. It's not logical for them want to ever enable such a thing.
The only exception to every PLEX being paid for is the few events where CCP gives them away as prizes. But these hardly effect the economy much as they tend to throw only 20 or so into an economy of 1,000s of PLEXes.
So no, no one in EVE plays for free except maybe some marketing genius that lives off of buddy invites every month haha.
As for the base of the topic, the expansion part, I refer you back to Tippia's post. We're better off having CCP do it as is. Cutting people off with expansions would be terrible for PR and would drop users by 1000s. If you intend on CCP making the rest of the game free to play and charging JUST for the expansions then you end up running them into the ground unless every expansion is $50, which again, would cause riots.
You also have to consider the effect on the economy this would have. If you ever make EVE free to play then you will inevitably get an influx of players. When you do that you end up with more saturated markets in pretty much every category. You slowly increase inflation as more people run missions and go ratting. The Drake is a Lie |
Hrothgar Nilsson
373
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:02:00 -
[160] - Quote
Quote:Nice try at a save, Tippia, but in the end what CCP generates as content isn't worthy to buy -- not enough content to justify it.
Be it for consumption or generation it's too little to buy. It's a patch.
That's the bottom line. No, they're not patches. Patches fix bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. The game updates/upgrades that roll around every six months are considerably more substantial than that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:04:00 -
[161] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Yes EVERY SINGLE ONE OF EVERY PLEX EVER IN EXISTENCE WAS BOUGHT BUY REAL MONEY BY SOMEONE.
Or another analogy: the government doesn't make money itself. It prints money, though. They have to tax to operate. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Prince Kobol
821
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:09:00 -
[162] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Doc Fury wrote:P3ps1 Max wrote:Expansions should cost $ They already do, it costs $15/mo. Yea, when majority of the player base is playing for free. But then you have new players with a high turnover ratio paying the bills. To me this would give CCP greater revenue while providing larger content to its players. More content is a win win for everyone.
Please tell everybody how people are playing for free |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:13:00 -
[163] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Quote:Nice try at a save, Tippia, but in the end what CCP generates as content isn't worthy to buy -- not enough content to justify it.
Be it for consumption or generation it's too little to buy. It's a patch.
That's the bottom line. No, they're not patches. Patches fix bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. The game updates/upgrades that roll around every six months are considerably more substantial than that.
Patches also releases content. In EvE they don't, but in other MMOs they do. See a patch logo here and what it's for? Icecrown Citadel wasn't a bug fix.
Tippia was arguing it's for consumption, but missed the fact it's still content.
They fix bugs and what not during down times like on Tuesdays, or if necessary with reboots. Larger fixes come in patches, along with content. Major fixes come in expansions. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Hrothgar Nilsson
373
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:17:00 -
[164] - Quote
Changes and new features to the game may be delivered by a patcher, but that's merely the method of delivery and doesn't necessarily define what's being delivered. Food and furniture are both transported on semi trucks, that doesn't mean we eat furniture and sleep or sit on piles of food. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:19:00 -
[165] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Quote:Nice try at a save, Tippia, but in the end what CCP generates as content isn't worthy to buy -- not enough content to justify it.
Be it for consumption or generation it's too little to buy. It's a patch.
That's the bottom line. No, they're not patches. Patches fix bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. The game updates/upgrades that roll around every six months are considerably more substantial than that. Patches also releases content. In EvE they don't, but in other MMOs they do. See a patch logo here and what it's for? Icecrown Citadel wasn't a bug fix. Tippia was arguing it's for consumption, but missed the fact it's still content. They fix bugs and what not during down times like on Tuesdays, or if necessary with reboots. Larger fixes come in patches, along with content. Major fixes come in expansions.
I agree with you on the whole.
What Tippa is saying as I read it, is that CCP does not add as much content as other MMOs because EVE should contain a lot of player made content. Whereas games like WoW rely on content to be added (hence consumption). |
Zale Lennelluc
Blue Star Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
just 1 word just saying |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
521
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:28:00 -
[167] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:A company that comes to mind that is extremely successful with this is Guild Wars 2 (which is a pretty bad game)
FYP Looks like the yellow quafe shirt is more popular than I thought ;) |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:29:00 -
[168] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote: I agree with you on the whole.
What Tippa is saying as I read it, is that CCP does not add as much content as other MMOs because EVE should contain a lot of player made content. Whereas games like WoW rely on content to be added (hence consumption).
Understand what she was getting at, but it's not a justification for calling it an expansion, and one worth paying for. Too little content (and there's plenty of content even for EvE to do -- like redesigning POSes). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Hrothgar Nilsson
373
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:34:00 -
[169] - Quote
I think DLC would be the term that most closely matches the definition of what CCP's bi-yearly upgrades/updates are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
937
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:42:00 -
[170] - Quote
Such a bad thread I could almost 1/10 on troll thread quality.
I mean almost because actually can't go any further than -10/10, OP you're bad and should feel bad, you're really terrible at understanding the simplest thing about Eve. I really think you're hopeless. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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DED Capsuleer
DED Drug Enforcement Department
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 16:54:00 -
[171] - Quote
Yes, surely what CCP needs are their veterans not returning after a long break, or new players not joining, 'cause they have to buy XYZ expansion to get started.
EVE is where it is today, in no small part, due to the free digital client download and free expansions.
Had EVE been your run-of-the-mill subscription MMO, with payed expansions, CCP would have had to change their business model years ago GÇô but it's not and it has its own business model; a model which zero user fragmentation, on their single shard, is a very big part of. |
Etteluor
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
7
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Posted - 2013.07.04 17:04:00 -
[172] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Doc Fury wrote:P3ps1 Max wrote:Expansions should cost $ They already do, it costs $15/mo. Yea, when majority of the player base is playing for free. But then you have new players with a high turnover ratio paying the bills. To me this would give CCP greater revenue while providing larger content to its players. More content is a win win for everyone.
Its impossible to play for free, PLEX aren't a seeded item. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
391
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Posted - 2013.07.04 17:05:00 -
[173] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:I've seen quite a few posts regarding this F2P nonsense. The best avenue to take for the company 'imo', is to charge for an expansion(s). With 1 expansion each year with a set price at 19.99$ along with content updates during the year A company that comes to mind that is extremely successful with this is Guild Wars 2 (which is a pretty bad ass game) which doesn't charge a cent to play each month (just the initial price of the game). They do however have a **** load of micro-transactions from their market place but those items are not game changing but rather clothing and other cool paraphernalia . To me Eve is setup for success using this business model.
Tranquility is currently running Odyssey.
If it cost money to upgrade to the winter expansion, we would need Tranquility to keep running Odyssey and a new server TQ2 to run that expansion, otherwise everyone that didn't upgrade would no longer be able to play.
Next spring we'd need a TQ3 for that expansion and so on. So, CCP would need to invest in the resources to create new superclusters every 6 months to make a tiny bit of money off those who were willing to pay for a significantly worse experience as the players would be fractured.
This game is a single shard. You like the corp you fly with? Some of them don't have the cash to upgrade? If you want the new stuff you go without them or live in the stagnation of a growthless world. It works because we're all together. If this were ever to be implemented, it would kill the game in a matter of months.
You might notice, as well, that Guild Wars 2 doesn't charge for expansion content (or hasn't yet), doesn't have a single server (leading to vast dead zones with no players), and was built with the price structure and design in mind (EVE was built with free expansions and a subscription).
TLDR your idea is bad
//thread DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
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