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Pirates vs Griefers - Making the Distinction

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Skelum	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Sarthu Originally by: Skelum Originally by: Sarthu Originally by: Skelum Althought I agree pirating/murder etc. should be part of the game I think someone staying in a 0.4 system for a month blowing everything he sees up is a bit silly. By silly I mean some ingame mechanic like concord should EVENTUALLY go looking for him. I saw a guy in a 0.4 system with a -10.0 security statis and a 50+ mil bounty. Now I wonder how many weeks/months ago he reached that -10.0, should probably be -100.0 by now. To sum it up I just dont think someone should be able to stay in the same system 0.1-0.4 pirating for weeks/months and should eventually be chased out by the authorities. Would make the game more fun I think and challening for the bad guys, (I know many ppl will say its hard enough as it is). So Outlaws should be restricted to 0.0? Well, if it makes you fell any better, a 10 jump travel now takes me 60 jumps as it is. Restricting Outlaws to 0.0 would thin out the accounts CCP has I believe. On another note: Serkis, your "Funkmaster" pose is actually a Disco pose. We all know Disco sucks. I never said that... Just theyd have to move about now and then find a new place to pirate. Well, ok then... I don't like the same miners and corps hangin' around the systems I hunt in. Corporations should have to move their ops twice a month so they're not monopolizing a cluster of systems. Silly, isn't it... 1-2 pirates enter system, miners have to relocate.
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Skelum 1-2 pirates enter system, miners have to relocate. No they don't. If your going to mine lowsec without a good protective force then your lucky you have the chance to move on...thank your lucky stars you have local. The correct sentance is "1-2 Pirates enter system,unprepaired miners who didn't bring backup have to relocate" If you expect to mine for a prolonged period in an (effectivly) free fire location then you HAVE to bring combat support and expect to loose ships. This does of course mean there is a minimum teamwork requirement for effective longterm lowsec mining.Untill you have that level of teamwork you should stick to mining omber in a 0.5. -------------------------------------- I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Serkis	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Sarthu On another note: Serkis, your "Funkmaster" pose is actually a Disco pose. We all know Disco sucks. Ahh, why did you have to bring this up in here? Sarthu, just to clarify...Funk music opened the doors to the disco subculture, everything disco related originated in the funk, the inventor of this pose is James Brown himself, the man that laid the foundation for the original funk. Disco was just a soap bubble that popped almost instantly. But the funk lives! Back to the topic. I think the idea of a bottomless security status is a good one, why have -10 the lowest when -1000 looks ALOT more ebil? And its impossible to regain positive status when you that low. CCP is always talking about specialization, a char with -1000 sec status would be pretty specialized criminal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa Run	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:21:00 - [34] Funny. People go unprepared to low sec. and then they complain that they get killed. Low sec is the place where the outlaws are. Ever wondered, why the autopilot offers the function 'prefer less secure' ? I bet it's for the 'scum' who killed a lot of people and can't enter hi-sec anymore. So these people are supposed to be there. In rl there are some areas too that most people wouldn't enter without protection. In EVE they take their unprotected barge to low sec. and things like that. Don't blame the guy(s) who killed you, blame yourself for giving him/them an easy opportunity or blame bad luck. You want to do something in low-sec, so it's your job to care about your security there. Low-sec / 0.0 => careful people live, careless people die. If you don't like it, don't go there.
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:23:00 - [35] To greif by nature u have to go out of ure way to specifically make somones playing time difficult as possible, killing somone in combat for fun doesnt count. I never ransom ships in this game since if it comes down to that in a fight and u have time to do it then tbh... its not a good fight. Ransoming pods i can agree with gives the enemy a chance to jump in another ship and keeps them in 0.0 where i normally hunt. This idea that killing is greifing somone isnt true by any definition, personally i think there is far more killers in thsi game then pirates, most people pvp in this game to kill people for fun not to actually gain fiancially (although that is a plus).
Kumq uat	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:52:00 - [36] The real life analogy would be driving your Porsche into the middle of the projects, getting out, and taking a nice stroll. Tired of mining the same looking rock for thousands of hours you care bear you? www.freeallegiance.org www.eve-pirate.com author and goat molestor.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:48:00 - [37] Sometimes theres too many in local to mess about with ransoms, other times i dont turn my guns off in times, sometimes i cba to ransom so if that makes me a ganker so be it We're coming for you
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Scrammer Originally by: Rod Blaine ransoming in Eve is harder then killing and getting the loot. Originally by: Dark Shikari A pirate doesn't have to ransom. If he wants your loot, he can blow you up too. My friend was in a shuttle. I doubt there was much cargo to loot from the 10m3 of space. Theres no point in ransoming a shuttle We're coming for you
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.12.12 05:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Skelum Althought I agree pirating/murder etc. should be part of the game I think someone staying in a 0.4 system for a month blowing everything he sees up is a bit silly. By silly I mean some ingame mechanic like concord should EVENTUALLY go looking for him. Actually, there is a game mechanic: other players. A pirate 'living' in a certain system will move whenever the locals start hunting him down successfully (either by themselves or hiring mercs), or manage to avoid him, or bring along enough protection in their operations. - Barriers - an EVE novel
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 05:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Scrammer Originally by: Rod Blaine ransoming in Eve is harder then killing and getting the loot. Originally by: Dark Shikari A pirate doesn't have to ransom. If he wants your loot, he can blow you up too. My friend was in a shuttle. I doubt there was much cargo to loot from the 10m3 of space. Theres no point in ransoming a shuttle you'd be surprised @ what people carry in shuttles. 1 shuttle I toasted before was carrying 5 +4 implants (all went poof) and another 5 hardwirings. A second shuttle that also went poof was carrying about 800mil worth of skills(naturally the adv spaceship command/ capital ship/ dreadnought skillbooks) went poof too.
Eudoxus	Posted - 2005.12.12 05:34:00 - [41] I gotta ask.... What kind of person who can afford 800mm in implants or bpos flies in a shuttle? With that kind of loot you must have skills out the wazoo and hence in my mind ought to be flying around in a covert ops ship cloaked. Or am I missing something here?! Sorry, bit of a newb. Eudoxus
Alex Kynes	Posted - 2005.12.12 05:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Eudoxus I gotta ask.... What kind of person who can afford 800mm in implants or bpos flies in a shuttle? With that kind of loot you must have skills out the wazoo and hence in my mind ought to be flying around in a covert ops ship cloaked. Or am I missing something here?! Sorry, bit of a newb. Eudoxus Yea. Umm, see, people are funny that way. If they weren't, many fine folks would be out of job. -AK
Eudoxus	Posted - 2005.12.12 05:51:00 - [43] Well I don't want any of you fine people to be out of a job ..... but I for one am training up my covert ops as we speak waaaaaaay in advance of even being able to fly a cruiser, let alone having hundreds of millions in stuff and the skills that would have accumulated over that time. I want people working....on blowing up other people than me! This from the gal with 140mm in wealth and 3.3mm skill points - hence I was trying to figure how someone with 800mm in 'shuttle around' type money was not in a vastly vastly vastly better ship (or covert ops). Seems highly idiotic to me
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:18:00 - [44] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 06:18:26 Just cus you can use a covt ops ship doesnt mean it'll save you. Amarr CEO lost a Heavy Pulse Laser T2 BPO, 3/4 BS BPOs and a Covetor ME 28 BPO (only one which survived ). He had a prototype cloak instead of a covt ops cloak fitted to his covt ops . Granted he did fly straight into the bubble too
Eudoxus	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:10:00 - [45] Well call me crazy again but if you can afford bpo's and are cheaping out with a prototype cloaker you deserve what you get. I have the prototype just cause I wanted to try it out while I wait to get covert ops and cloaking skills to 4. But I don't feel safe flying around in my cheetah EMPTY let alone with stuff of any value - its not like there is a lot of armor; how many hits would it take to get thru my (from memory) 380 points of armor and piddling shield! Covert ops that cant warp and be cloaked at the same time is an accident/ganking/robbing/griefing waiting to happen in my mind.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Eudoxus What kind of person who can afford 800mm in implants or bpos flies in a shuttle? With that kind of loot you must have skills out the wazoo and hence in my mind ought to be flying around in a covert ops ship cloaked. Or am I missing something here?! Sorry, bit of a newb. Most people, who fly from empire to 0.0 use bms and not everyone trains for a covert ops. Then a shuttle is not a bad choice for that purpose, because there is no need for a mwd and it goes very fast into warp. I'd transport something expensive also with an interceptor, because so far noone was able to stop me when I didn't want a fight. But I agree that covert ops is the best solution. Remember us sitting behind a gate in stilettos with two sensor-boosters-II and it was still impossible to lock the convert-op in the short time it had to decloak after the gate. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Eudoxus	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:49:00 - [47] Stupid question time - I am newb! - what type of ship is a bms? Stupid question two - "But I agree that covert ops is the best solution. Remember us sitting behind a gate in stilettos with two sensor-boosters-II and it was still impossible to lock the convert-op in the short time it had to decloak after the gate" So you were trying to lock a covert ops ship - why would one be decloaking after coming thru a gate? Do coverts with the top level cloak still need to decloak and recloak after coming thru a gate? I thought once you had the good one you could cloak, warp, go thru gate and all the time being cloaked and hence never need to come out? Sorry, really not trying to hijack thread. I will shutup now.
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:55:00 - [48] you have to recloak every time you go through a gate. If you spawn inside the bubble if theres one on the gate your hosed. If people dumped drones to decloak you your hosed too.
Dloan	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Tony Fats If you don't want PVP then stay in .5+ They already do...
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:30:00 - [50] Originally by: Tony Fats The never ending carebear threads never end. ITS A PVP GAME, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO KILL PEOPLE, FOR ANY REASON, RANSOM, FUN, STEALING THEIR MODS, CLAIMING THEIR BOUNTY, OR JUST PLAIN SHOOTING ANYBODY YOU COME ACROSS. If you don't want PVP then stay in .5+ You do not have a right to safely enter lowsec, paying a ransom is not a right, its a privilege, when someone offers to let you go for 5 mil, it shows CLASS, they are doing you a FAVOR, they don't HAVE to ransom you, they can just gank you, pick up the mods and wait for the next victim. PVP != Fighting, as it's spelt out, Player Vs Player is any activity where players engage each other. This could be as simple as undercutting your opponent's price on ships. That being said, you don't see ransoming because it's almost always EASIER to blow someone out of the sky. I mean, sure, you might loose some of the stuff that they were carrying, but you could hit the jackpot easily. Blowing up the ship and ransoming the pod would be the more obvious choice, but then, only people who have implants worth anything would even bother to consider paying a fee.
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:01:00 - [51] The problem is, ransoming is really very difficult in EVE. The fact that they might have WCS, friends 'near' or be in range of sentry guns all combine to make blowing their ship and making off with the 'lesser' loot, a far safer option. Shuttles are of no value, therefore not worth asking for a ransom for - they _might_ have a mega cargo, in which case unless you've a cargo scanner (which is often a wasted slot for combat) you won't be able to tell. -- Complaining about the PvPers and Pirates in EVE is like complaining about the mines in Minesweeper.
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Scrammer Edited by: Scrammer on 11/12/2005 21:04:15 Friend of mine was attacked and killed this morning by another player. No convo. No ransom. No warning. Just complete destruction and chaos, followed by manic laughter. Friend of mine tryed to randsome another player. No anwsering to convo. "me spik bad inglish". I dont have 10m. Stalling time to let his buddies to gankk pirat. Just compleet pole smoking and playing plain dumb, followed by carebarish "my preccciosss" sihhing voices.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:14:00 - [53] Hah, like your friend would have paid anyway. ----- ----- -----
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:19:00 - [54] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 12/12/2005 10:19:33 Originally by: BloodSpoon Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Orroit Arkid Piracy and being gentlemanly don't usually go together, methinks. Hardly. I suspect you've never met a real professional pirate, like Ikvar or Verone? Just because a bunch of kiddies act like jerks doesn't mean all, or even the majority do. some people give this game a bad name...IE smack talkers :P smacktalk is fun when a fleet of pirates bs jumped in sytem poped some noobs and they are mad siting in station hehe :P
LordMordred	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:20:00 - [55] I rather disagree with our orignal posting friend here. 9/10 Times, if it's at a belt... we will kill you for your loot, mining or ratting. As in our opinion a real pirate doesn't walk up and give you a chance to get your witts about you, the essence of the attack is in the shock factor. Once we destroy your ship we will ransom your pod if we catch it. At a gate, we will kill you flat out, regardless of ship. Then we will kill your pod. We can't take chances at gates. No Ransom, no warning. As for gate campers being griefers, again I disagree. Real pirates would be waiting in popular travel routes waiting for the next ship to come along. Storm the ship, kill the crew (to prevent people from reporting you.) Take the loot, burn the ship so it will never be found. Also there are systems out there that have alot of research labs in them, I can't tell you how many "newb" ships I've popped at these gates that drop all kinds of BPO/BPC goodies.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:30:00 - [56] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 12/12/2005 10:35:49 Originally by: Eudoxus Stupid question time - I am newb! - what type of ship is a bms? use bms = bookmarks, so that you land 0km from the gate and not 15km away from it. If you land with your shuttle on top of a gate, it has no disadvantages to a frigate, although it has no mwd, but the advantage that a shuttle goes faster into warp after the gate. Quote: So you were trying to lock a covert ops ship - why would one be decloaking after coming thru a gate? Do coverts with the top level cloak still need to decloak and recloak after coming thru a gate? Yes, you come invisible out of the gate like everyone does, but cloaking device is off and you can't activate modules again without moving or before activating the warp. So you become visible for a part of a second, before you can manually activate your cloaking device again. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
SpaceCleaver	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:33:00 - [57] Edited by: SpaceCleaver on 12/12/2005 10:33:57 Edited by: SpaceCleaver on 12/12/2005 10:33:06 Originally by: Tony Fats You do not have a right to safely enter lowsec, paying a ransom is not a right, its a privilege, when someone offers to let you go for 5 mil, it shows CLASS, they are doing you a FAVOR, they don't HAVE to ransom you, they can just gank you, pick up the mods and wait for the next victim. Unless your victim can actually kill you, you're 100% right.
Lu Yan	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:35:00 - [58] You know, this same thing happened to me not long ago. I warp to a gate in a shuttle, then get killed without a word. But it wasn't because the guy didn't want to ransom me, it was because shuttles are fast and battlecruisers are slower to lock on. I was 6 Km from the gate by the time he managed to lock and shoot me, so by the time he would have made his demands, I would have been through the gate. Also, if there was "complete destruction and chaos" your friend would have been podded, and he wouldn't have heard laughing on local. If he did hear laughing on local, then he wasn't podded and should be happy that he only lost a shuttle. One last thing: "We just like to shoot things"-Euphoria Released It is fun; once I blasted an Ore thief... it was the happiest day of EVE in my life. Kittens give Morbo gas.
Siren Shiva	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Rod Blaine Not having a chance to decline = non-consensual combat. Yes, you can decline by not entering lowsec.
Fooball	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:32:00 - [60] Edited by: Fooball on 12/12/2005 12:36:00 Originally by: Dark Shikari "Griefer" is a name that carebears call people who do things they don't like. Amen to that. 99% of the things people yell GRIEFING or WRONG!!!! are just natural parts of the game. It's not supposed to be all nice and like made by Disney or something. Who claimed life is supposed to be fair and on what grounds? PFFT. Like thievery. It's a profession amongst others. RMR will make it more interesting which might draw in more people into it Something becomes griefing when the intent is to make the life of others as bad as possible. Intent. If I blow up ships because I love seeing those bright flashes although it might possibly bug someone target it is not griefing It would take for instance following certain player and hitting and hitting and hitting on him constantly so that he could't simply play to start being griefing. There are griefers around too I bet but I haven't sofar in my first couple months playing seen one.

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