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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tauge
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:14:00 -
[1]
I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. Why does it take so long to put in a new content patch?
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Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:16:00 -
[2]
The Hamsters need to undergo 24 hours of intense psycho-therapy so they know how fast to run for the new patch.
________________
"Pain is an illusion of the flesh. Despair is an illusion of the mind." |
Jonas Vance
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:17:00 -
[3]
I'm assuming it has to do with the fact that the new patch is upwards of 60 megs, and many of the things that are being upgraded involve upgrading database items, and I'm assuming they are probably doing a bit of cleanup as well. Not to mention with how big this game is, when all the changes are applied, they need to do alot of testing to make sure the whole thing doesn't crash down for some reason.
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Glassback
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:21:00 -
[4]
The process only takes an hour or so. The reason realy is because CCP spent the evening getting drunk.
G.
I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about
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Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:22:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Glassback
The process only takes an hour or so. The reason realy is because CCP spent the evening getting drunk.
G.
Thats right, gotta have recovery time ya know!
_______________________________________________
If you fear the thorn, do not crave the rose
Mr. Grumpy-sour-puss.
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Tas Devil
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:23:00 -
[6]
How about they just FINALLY learned that telling us its going to be a 6hrs patch and then delaying relaunch 4 times and having a buggy after-patch day after deployement is worst then just telling us its 24hrs DT and making us all happy by delivering on time and smooth ?
If that's the case it only took them 2 years to figure it out :)
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mallikanth on 15/12/2005 12:24:34
Well if you're realy lucky you'll get a nice answer from a dev, in ohhhh about 8 hours time.
In the meantime you'll have to make do with our guestimate and incomplete replies.
If you read the dev blogs you can see there are lots of changes and every piece of kit in the Eve Universe has to comply with those changes and be seen to be working at the end of it (we hope). I would hope you can appreciatte how long this takes for 80000 subscribers accross x number of servers.
I had started to run through a step by step guide of my understanding of what would be necessary but got tired 
/edit: Although I prefere the "They are getting drunk" and "need new hamster" replies to mine 
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
- Douglas Adams
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:27:00 -
[8]
Yea, its 24 hours because they started applying the patch at 8:15pm (uk time) or something didnt they... SO they get that done before bed time, then come back in the morning and poke about to make sure it works properly...
They also need the time to prepare for the "bug report" threads which will appear on the forums  e-hehehe
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Dont mind me, I'm Forum-Whoring cause I dont have anything better to do with my life... |
Xerxes X
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:27:00 -
[9]
Testing probably takes up the majority of the time.
Xerxes X
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:28:00 -
[10]
I'm guessing making a column/data modification to a table with many millions of records isn't going to zip along. Multiply that by however many modifications need to be made and then throw in the inevitable failure<->rollback<->startagain cycle and you are easily into 24 hours :).
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Martinus Crimson
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:29:00 -
[11]
its looking good tho .. there allready making dry runs atm ... so lets all cross our fingers and hope they will not run into probs :)
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Nuttin ^^ |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:33:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 15/12/2005 12:34:37
Gotta agree with G .
Patch probably only takes half an hour to deploy.
But as this is the season of the Office Party and every employee has to go then shutting down the servers allows this to occur.
Bet theres lots of coffee shlurping in the head office going on atm.
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Former Slave
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Posted - 2005.12.15 12:46:00 -
[13]
As a database developer, I think I'm able to deduce quite a bit about the database structure from the bits that we see. And I'd say that there are at least two reasons that this upgrade takes longer than most:
1. Upgrade of every single assembled ship -- especially the conversions to Mk2 versions
2. Termination of all the lab and factory jobs and migration of data into new structures to support the research and manufacturing rewrites.
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Siobhan Ni
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:16:00 -
[14]
Most likely migration and validation of the database. The old database will need to be archived then they will need to convert it to account for new tables and updated columns. Then they gotta test it. Not an easy task.
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Ruby LeFonte
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth
The Hamsters need to undergo 24 hours of intense psycho-therapy so they know how fast to run for the new patch.
Glad I wasn't drinking anything whilst reading that.
_
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Nemien
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:18:00 -
[16]
i think its because they are doing hardware upgrades etc. plus trying to fix bugs before it goes live.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:19:00 -
[17]
Are they adding the new hardware to the cluster during this patch?
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:21:00 -
[18]
I had assumed it was better quality control. CCP has had a problem (like every other mmorpg op on the planet) with deploying big patches. Always bug ridden, needs lots of fixes.. sometimes there are serious issues requiring rollbacks.
24hrs gives a bit more time to test things and make sure everything is alright. We'll still have problems (a given) but hopefully there will be nothing serious.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Caryna
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:22:00 -
[19]
normal system-upgrade procedure:
stop servers and db -
fullbackup of all systems -
patch/update -
test update -
fullbackup of all systems -
-- ready to go -- open system
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codemaster28
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:25:00 -
[20]
surely they made a copy of all tables etc when coming up witht he new contect so really all they would have to do is backup the old database and copy over the new databse (with new content). Unless they are switching over some of the old 32-bit servers to the new 64-bit blades which would explain some of the 24 hours.
Posted at 1:22pm GMT we should be able to auto patch by now or there will be a rush for the download the file servers will get backed up with requests and we spend the next day playing on a laggy server.  nothing new
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Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth
The Hamsters need to undergo 24 hours of intense psycho-therapy so they know how fast to run for the new patch.
I thought they switched to Gerbils?
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Halgari
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:30:00 -
[22]
As a computer programmer and a IT admin, I will say it's probably a mixture of a couple things.
(1) They have to re-start the servers completely. For "Big Iron" computers this can take awhile.
(2) They probably have to backup the entir database, apply the patch and then make sure nothing is corrupted
(3) In following with the tradtion of Scotty in Star Trek they guessed that it would take three times longer then it probably really would.
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Angelic Resolution
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:34:00 -
[23]
I'm hoping it's because they're getting rid of all the SECURE ******* CANS out there..
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nails
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Glassback
The process only takes an hour or so. The reason realy is because CCP spent the evening getting drunk.
G.
ROFL!!
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http://www.otaku.jp/ota-corps/ -- Anime l33t level http://otaku.jp/images/nails/eve/lvl5.gif[/ |
Captain Tightpants
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Halgari
(3) In following with the tradtion of Scotty in Star Trek they guessed that it would take three times longer then it probably really would.
They cannae change the laws of physics, you know.
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Braaage
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:41:00 -
[26]
Makes me wonder if most of this time isn't taken by the compiled source code going from Iceland to London
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Stogee
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:41:00 -
[27]
The patch was finished about 20 mins after 20.00 GMT last night.
The truth is that all of CCP are in their office at their computers reading the forums and making jokes at our expense about being withdrawn from the game!
Note: First post after returning to Eve after an absence of 3 months.
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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:42:00 -
[28]
What would you estimate, how long would it take you to:
- Make backups of a few terrabytes of data
- Install software on a hundred machines, and make sure every single machine is 100% fine
- Translate several terrabytes of data entries to a new database structure
- Power up a complex system like that for the very first time
- Carefully test every aspect possible aspect of the system
- code a fix for the things, that you missed.
- redo the process from the backup tapes with your fixes.
i'd personally estimate, it would take me:
- 4 pounds of coffee
- 8 pounds of weight
- roughly 20 pizzas
- 30 boxes of cigarettes
- 30 liters of coke
- 3 new monitors after i threw them out of the window
- 270 hamsters
Perhaps CCP can put up a statistic on used pizza/coke/coffee.... for RMR deployment :)
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All my statements are my personal opinion. I am not speaking on behalf of any entity, corp or alliance in this forums. |
Stogee
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:44:00 -
[29]
But how much in Blue screens of Deaths?
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth
The Hamsters need to undergo 24 hours of intense psycho-therapy so they know how fast to run for the new patch.
I thought they switched to Gerbils?
they where planing on using gopher.... but um... they rebeled
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
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wizzard66
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pagefault
- 30 liters of coke
Liters???? Doesnt it come in grams? 
nm me im from the land of tulips, beautiful woman and free weed 
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Zag Nuu
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:50:00 -
[32]
CCP is bright and that's simple...
SONY STATION:
server down for 6 hours, promise!
reality.... server down for 2 days.
WOW:
Server down for 6 hours!
reality... some servers went down for days last year lol.
EVE:
server down for 24 hours
server are ruffly down for 24 hours :)
CCP simply doesn't shoot themself in the foot
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.12.15 13:54:00 -
[33]
Some people fail to see that "patching up the server" is not the same thing as running an installer as it is for the clients. Most of it is just fail safe margins I'd guess. CCP has a habit of making promises they can not match in time. By saying it will take 24 hours, they have secured at least some 12 hours for emergency fixes. On other occations, they have opened up the game after successful patching just to find that something has gone terribly wrong. Given how 92% of the people on the internet are egoistic morons, this results in needles rabble for hours ahead as people can't accept downtime despite how well the game works every other day before and after patch day, they have to be asshats until the game works as intended.
Im beginning to think the CCP bashing behaviour is a sign of unquestionable, unhealthy addiction. Addicts of every form are agressive about the lack of supplies for their addiction. Don't think of it as a joke, addictions are no laughing matters.
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kieron
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Caryna
normal system-upgrade procedure:
stop servers and db -
fullbackup of all systems -
patch/update -
test update -
fullbackup of all systems -
-- ready to go -- open system
Caryna is pretty close. Only thing I would add is creating a few new builds as QA catches bugs that slipped through earlier testing, more QA, and sanity checks.
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Magunus
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: kieron
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
Don't forget the associated bathroom breaks.
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Tonkin
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:10:00 -
[36]
i think there doing a fresh installs of the server clients and putting a pure version of rmr on instead of a patched coldwar version
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Winter Star
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:13:00 -
[37]
And looking at Boobies. 
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:14:00 -
[38]
I thought it was a good excuse to take the chance to use the bandwith to download **** for a year's "content development" 
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Polymerase
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:15:00 -
[39]
Originally by: kieron
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
What no QUAFE?!?!?!
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Darklandz
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Caryna
normal system-upgrade procedure:
stop servers and db -
fullbackup of all systems -
patch/update -
test update -
fullbackup of all systems -
-- ready to go -- open system
Caryna is pretty close. Only thing I would add is creating a few new builds as QA catches bugs that slipped through earlier testing, more QA, and sanity checks.
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
Then they need to feed the 100k hamsters
Replace old with younger models
jumpstart the hamsters
make sure they get on cruise speed
fire up TQ
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Invisible Touch
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tonkin
i think there doing a fresh installs of the server clients and putting a pure version of rmr on instead of a patched coldwar version
I think that's what we should do with our clients also! At least after 2-3 days when the download frenzy will go away.
All of the above are personal views/opinions only and not that of my corp or/and alliance
Every day we stand is another day for PA.
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Tharbad
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Caryna
normal system-upgrade procedure:
stop servers and db -
fullbackup of all systems -
patch/update -
test update -
fullbackup of all systems -
-- ready to go -- open system
Caryna is pretty close. Only thing I would add is creating a few new builds as QA catches bugs that slipped through earlier testing, more QA, and sanity checks.
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
Busted, Keiron. Dew isnt available in Europe, much to our constant annoyance. Seriously, its not that awesome, but when you can't get any... and you're thirsty... you just want some, its precious. FFS, send some over, you yankee bastards....
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Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: kieron
Only thing I would add is <snip>, and sanity checks.
is that on the software, or the devs themselves...?
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:31:00 -
[44]
We know we're crazy.
I'm pretty dang sure I've been drinking *something* green with a mountain dew sticker!
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Zeromancer
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:32:00 -
[45]
Mountain dew is available in norway.
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Henry Fredyericus
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:37:00 -
[46]
hmm....it sure does take a lot of time to clean up the stations in caldari region. No wonder... To me it usually takes about 10 minutes to move out the carbage bucket... But when you got months of carbage hauled up there...I would say the CCP is doing a good job, putting it in a 24 hour time frame :)
Good work CCP :)
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.12.15 14:51:00 -
[47]
My guess is they are taking the opportunity to do database maintenance and system maintenance at the same time.
Be patient 24hrs here prolly save alotta grief over the next 6mths or so.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:02:00 -
[48]
Whenever I do a large scale upgrade, I usually budget a whole weekend when I've about 8 hours of work.
It's _FAR_ better to overestimate time needed and finish early, than it is to over run.
However that said, there's how many servers in the Tranquillity cluster these days? First pass, you get a backup, then you get to update that database, even if it is on a RAMSAN. Then there's the actually patching the stuff, bringing it up etc.
Now at a guess, the 'overnight run' started at 8pm but could mostly run in 'batch mode' overnight, with the 'real' work starting first thing this morning, when everyone was bright fresh and alert.
And of course, once it's done, I'm prepared to bet there's a certain amount of testing to be done, to check that all the rather notable changes have actually worked.
Best of luck guys, and remember, good is infinitely preferable to fast.
--
Lyrus Associates is recruiting |
ELaine Doi
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:04:00 -
[49]
Harumph to James Lyrus - far better to get it right than do it fast & mess it up.
Been there , done that , got the overtime.
cheers
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: kieron
Oh, something that almost everyone missed, the consumption of much coffee, Mountain Dew and other caffeine-laden beverages.
i'd say that's a given :P
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:15:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Face Lifter on 15/12/2005 15:15:19
Originally by: kieron
Caryna is pretty close. Only thing I would add is creating a few new builds as QA catches bugs that slipped through earlier testing, more QA, and sanity checks.
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? they are creating a new, essentially untested version and releasing it on TQ. Yes, they fixed some bugs from previous version, but they don't perform full test of the patch as a whole. Why do we have SiSi test server? Is it really that hard to have a code freeze and let things be tested for a couple days before releasing a new build?
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:18:00 -
[52]
well fixing bugs you find during testing is pretty much impossible if you rigidly enforce the code freeze, but i see your point... let's hope they get it right
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Miracle Max
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Posted - 2005.12.15 15:34:00 -
[53]
Comming from SWG, I would rather they take there time instead of rushing in a incomplete product and having to shut it down everyday for hours for 3 weeks straight. Anything they miss , tell us its working as intended.......
So kudo's for the long down time. Makes me feel a bit better about the patch and content comming.
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